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So, I don't know what to make of someone I played against today...
/Rant
It was a pickup game, I had a couple armies there and he played guard and Necrons. He was leaving to go grab his models, I asked him if he wanted to play a game when he got back. He said sure, we talked for a minute, I decided on Orks. Mentioning that he played 'crons, he commented "Don't worry, I don't play cheese lists."
So, he left and I figured I'd build my list. Since I hadn't played him before I obviously didn't want to take a steamroller and since I didn't know which army he was using, I chose an army that I thought was mildly decent against most enemies though not particularly good against any one army. Ghazzy, 2 battlewagons, burnas, dakkajet, some Ork boys.
When he got back, I had my army in plain sight on the board, and he wrote a list taking 80-something Warriors and 4 sets of mindshackle scarabs.
Needless to say, I lost. But I couldn't even be mad, because despite how obviously lopsided his list choice was he was incredibly friendly and social the entire time.
Now, if I had actually taken an anti-Crons list I personally feel the game would have gone far differently, but the losing isn't what annoyed me it was his list in general. I don't mind losing, I'd just prefer to lose against tactics and not a leafblower.

/Rant End

So...the long and short of this is that you lost and instead of learning from it, you blame the opponent's list?

He could have brought 9 fliers and a smile.

 curran12 wrote:
So...the long and short of this is that you lost and instead of learning from it, you blame the opponent's list?

I learned not to take a mediocre list the first time I play someone. If I had actually waited to find out which army he was using and taken an optimized list like he did, it would be a very different game. Is that the lesson here?

I'm a little curious, what points were you playing, and what kind of list would you have brought if you had known what army your enemy was bringing? And mass Warriors and MSS doesn't sound to optimized to me. That seems like it can take on almost any army.

No offense, but the Necron list was hardly optimized either. Like fett said, he could have run 9 fliers and had you dead even faster. This comes across as a whole lot of "I lost and they are clearly cheesy!" kind of rationalization.

DjPyro3 wrote:
I'm a little curious, what points were you playing, and what kind of list would you have brought if you had known what army your enemy was bringing? And mass Warriors and MSS doesn't sound to optimized to me. That seems like it can take on almost any army.

1500.
And if I was going to build an anti Necrons list...
30 Lootas, a Shokk Attack Gun, quad gun with Aegis Line, a couple of dakkajets. That's just 1000 points and it would perform better than how I did. The extra 500 I'd probably take two hordes of Ork boys.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 curran12 wrote:
No offense, but the Necron list was hardly optimized either. Like fett said, he could have run 9 fliers and had you dead even faster. This comes across as a whole lot of "I lost and they are clearly cheesy!" kind of rationalization.

I'll say that I haven't played a lot against Necrons, maybe four games since 6th, but the massed Gauss and Mindshackle scarabs seemed rather designed to kill my stuff. Maybe it is just that all Necron weapons are really good against Orks? I did play against a 2000 point flyer/wraith spam list in a tournament though and I pulled off a tie against it. This game was just slaughter.

That is the weakest explanation I've ever heard.

By your logic, bolters are cheesy and optimized against Orks, do you make the same complaints against Marine armies? They both wound you on roughly the same levels, and hurt your vehicles (outside of glancing your high armor ones on 6s) at the same rate.

MSS are nasty, but hardly cheesy and they impact everyone more or less equally. This is where you learn from your experiences, rather than whine on a forum. Look at your other thread, you complain about MSS and challenges. Why didn't you include a nob in your squads to eat the challenge for you while your characters went to work on the unit?

I don't mean to be this harsh, but yeah...you lost. Learn from it, appreciate that you lost to a friendly guy and move. Just because they beat you doesn't automatically make an army broken and cheap.

Lol had this happen once. The culprit knows who he is >_>

Managed to win though, so all was well.

so your thinking he was list tailoring? or what?

i've had it worse.

lined up a game - vrs a player most people thought was beardy and a whiner. (likes to complain after games and point out your rule errors, and claim his loss was really a win because of those errors)
in any case, the game was arranged as a meet up and play. this was a few months after the DE venoms got released, so my DE venom list was in full swing, as i was prepping for a tourney and grabbing test games to try some builds.

guy shows up. we roll mission, i start pulling models. he comes over looks at my case, then goes and starts writing a list wich was very clearly meant to counter me, as "all my lazcannon/plasma cannons are missile launchers" and so on. he even went so far as "bumping the table accidently" so he could rearrange the terrain on his side more favourably. (to give him cover and block LOS to him)

i just smiled, deployed and played him. but every turn he was questioning me, taking back moves, claiming "cocked dice" and so on. it was laughable and i would been quite cheesed off - but as it was i was trouncing him anyway despite his blatant attempts to circumvent the rules anyway he could, i just let alot of things slide. after the game (in wich he killed about 200 pts of my models to his being tabled over 4 turns) he claimed he was using a TAC list, that he never played before, and that i had made a few rules errors and he made mistakes, "so really it was a tie"

.... yea i have not played that guy since, and i won't ever again. and if my friends mention they have a game aginst this guy i advise them to consider "having something unexpected happen" and cancel the game. people like that should not be allowed to play. your case... dosent sound like the same thing. more of a im playing orks so heres my ork list..

ive done that a few times, made some simple changes to a weapon or something (like taking autocannons instead of plasma cannons on dreads etc) but i always make the changes clear before the game starts or sides are rolled, and try to keep such changes to a minimum - and really only in friendly games if the other guy says ok.

I don't understand why your reaction isn't "hey, he was a nice, friendly guy. And 40k is a fun game. I'll see if I can get another fun game of 40k with with this nice, friendly guy sometime in the future."

So why not catch up with him and ask him to play against his same warrior spam with your anti-cron build? Sounds like he's a friendly player and would probably go for the challenge. You can't really complain about playing and losing to someone that's playing the game for fun and not trying to beat your army into the ground from the time he agrees to play you. Maybe that's the army he felt like playing and it didn't matter what army you fielded against him. As curran said, that many warriors is a serious handful for any army to play against without a serious amout of low ap blast templates. I say rematch him and use your should've-fielded-army against and see how it goes.

Waaaghpower wrote:
But I couldn't even be mad, because despite how obviously lopsided his list choice was he was incredibly friendly and social the entire time.

This is the most important part in my opinion. Even in a one-sided, if both players have a good attitude that's good enough.

Waaaghpower wrote:

I learned not to take a mediocre list the first time I play someone. If I had actually waited to find out which army he was using and taken an optimized list like he did, it would be a very different game. Is that the lesson here?

You learned that if it bothers you to lose (or win) due to a list (rather than "tactics"), you're likely playing the wrong game if you're playing Warhammer 40K.

Half the game in 40k lies in the list building. You purposefly brought a 'mediocre' list. He brought a solid TAAC list (Gauss is good against 'eerything. Orks get no special consideration).

Then you whine about losing to a superior list?

That sounds like a truly bad Necron list.
Seriously, that has none of the usual suspects in it.

 McGibs wrote:
Half the game in 40k lies in the list building. You purposefly brought a 'mediocre' list. He brought a solid TAAC list (Gauss is good against 'eerything. Orks get no special consideration).

Then you whine about losing to a superior list?

TAC? Really, TAC?
1000 points on Warriors and 500 on Lords/Royal Court is one of the worst lists I have ever seen.

 marv335 wrote:
That sounds like a truly bad Necron list.
Seriously, that has none of the usual suspects in it.

He has over 1k points on Warriors xD
That's not a cheesy list, it's not a TAC-list, it is just a crappy list.

The guy probably won because he outplayed you.

Really, nothing but 80 warriors and a royal court? And you lost?

I don't think necrons are the problem here...

I have to agree with a lot of the sentiment on here, nothing but warriors and royal court aren't cheesy/beardy/optimized at all, especially if he wasn't even taking ghost arks for each block of warriors. It seems that your taking heavy mech against Necrons made it feel like he tailored the list to you, when in fact, Necrons are just naturally suited to kill AV.

If he was playing a tailored anti-ork list, he'd throw in a heavy dose of tesla armed models.

If I was going anti Ork, I'd have;
Tesla Immortals,
Annihilation Barges,
DespairTeks in Deathmark units in Nightscythes.
That's what I'd do if I was tailoring.
What I wouldn't do is take loads of warriors and a large royal court.

 marv335 wrote:
If I was going anti Ork, I'd have;
Tesla Immortals,
Annihilation Barges,
DespairTeks in Deathmark units in Nightscythes.
That's what I'd do if I was tailoring.
What I wouldn't do is take loads of warriors and a large royal court.

Tomb blades + particle beamers. Hordes go bye bye.

Triarch Stalkers are also scary, due to the heavy flamer.

I don't think that necron list was competitive at all really...

Avoiding the discussion on list building, as its been covered quite well.

Did you enjoy the time you spent with this individual over a game of 40k? Did you laugh, smile, exhange good banter, roll some dice, move some (hopefully) painted minis around on a (hopefully) cinematic table? Was that hour you spent playing the game fundamentally enjoyable?

If you answered yes to any of the above, it was not a true loss. It was a fun experience, one you spent in good company, and probably learned a thing or two about the game. Don't hold on to losses like that, you won't win every game, and don't expect to either. Bring good lists you enjoy fielding, and play against people who are enjoyable to be around. It seems like your opponent was a good guy. There are a lot worse you could be playing against, just read some of the horror stories that crop up from time to time.

Oh, and always write double-blind lists; no one should know what you brought until both of you have finalized lists, solves so many problems.

Overlord - 90
Despairtek with veil - 60

10 Tesla immortals - 170

5 Tesla immortals - 85
Night scythe - 100

5 Tesla immortals - 85
Night scythe - 100

Abarge - 90
Abarge - 90
Abarge - 90

Thats 960 or so points.
That would worry me far more than the list he took.

 Blacksails wrote:
Avoiding the discussion on list building, as its been covered quite well.

Did you enjoy the time you spent with this individual over a game of 40k? Did you laugh, smile, exhange good banter, roll some dice, move some (hopefully) painted minis around on a (hopefully) cinematic table? Was that hour you spent playing the game fundamentally enjoyable?

If you answered yes to any of the above, it was not a true loss. It was a fun experience, one you spent in good company, and probably learned a thing or two about the game. Don't hold on to losses like that, you won't win every game, and don't expect to either. Bring good lists you enjoy fielding, and play against people who are enjoyable to be around. It seems like your opponent was a good guy. There are a lot worse you could be playing against, just read some of the horror stories that crop up from time to time.

Oh, and always write double-blind lists; no one should know what you brought until both of you have finalized lists, solves so many problems.

So unbelievably true, you are Blacksails

Here is a question, which I seem to be saying a lot? Did you have fun as was suggested?

Also do you need to win when you are playing with plastic toy soldiers? Just remember you are rolling dice instead of going "pew pew".

Take a step back and take a look of another way of seeing what you wrote is, I didn't win with my plastic toy soldiers, and the other guy was really a great guy and fun to play with

*edit* sorry if this comes out as condescending, it is not my intent, but trying to show you another way of looking at what you wrote. Remember the important thing is to have fun. You had fun. You didn't win. Who cares. Did you learn from your loss? A true leader/general/what ever will always learn from mistakes made.

Another way to look at it, is so what if he made a list after you. You got a game in. What happened if he didn't show up? You wouldn't have had a fun game with a nice person. So you would rather win with a person who is not fun to be with?