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I prefer the lack of invulnerable saves to an increase in FnP.

For MCs...a 5+ FnP is better than a 5+ invuln any day.

It also makes them fluffier as invulns don't make sense for anything outside of agility for bugs...except for the giant brains that are zoeys

A Tyrant shouldn't have an invuln...instead he can be T6-9 and take a 2+ save...and then all he has to deal with is unwieldy weapons...and super special weapons.

It's probably just my bitterness towards Terminators that's speaking lol.

So do you think FNP should be a standard for the bigger and better Bugs?

I think that it should be a possibility...like a tyranid psychic tree with FnP in the primaris...this would boost Tyrants, Tervigons, and Broodlords to competitive but not broken levels.


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And then zoeys get their lance and blast as normal with access to only telekinesis and telepathy.

Broods, Terv, and Tyrants would only get access to biomancy and telepathy

I think it should just be standard on things like carnifexes. T6 mixed with FNP and you got yourself a big bad bug that fits the fluff and puts the fear of the hive back into the enemy

Tyranids units and models aren't meant to be all purpose...without the ability to sling FnP where you need it, you heavily lose synergy and the competitive ability to multiply the effectiveness of your force.

True. True
I guess i'd just be happy even with the armoured shell upgrade for carnifexs

I'm really curious as to what kind of Tyranid specific War lord traits they're going to have. I'm assuming they're going to have there own as that seems to be the trend. Giving a single unit the ability to assault out of reserves would be a good one

Am I the only one who liked Cruddace's book when it came out? It's getting dated, without a doubt.

Overall I enjoyed it too being honest.
But it is a little dated and has some glaring omissions and game mechanic problems which have been well covered here.

To balance the book I have 2 real strong guesses for what is going to happen to the bug book.

1) Army wide stealth
2) FnP blessings readily available across synapse creatures

Which do you think would be more likely in the update.

Both make sense and would help the bugs get back to assault.

Sidenote: what kind of preferred enemy/hatred/buff/debuff do you see bugs having...if any.

Ultramarines would be cool...I feel like Ultramarines and genestealers are the heart and soul of all things 40k

 ductvader wrote:
To balance the book I have 2 real strong guesses for what is going to happen to the bug book.

1) Army wide stealth
2) FnP blessings readily available across synapse creatures

Which do you think would be more likely in the update.

Both make sense and would help the bugs get back to assault.

Sidenote: what kind of preferred enemy/hatred/buff/debuff do you see bugs having...if any.

Ultramarines would be cool...I feel like Ultramarines and genestealers are the heart and soul of all things 40k

I would say FNP boons over army wide stealth. While stealth would help out some units i don't feel it would balance the codex out as much as a higher range of FNP through out the army

Ultramarines would be a good one. If the hive mind is going to especialy hate anyone it's going to be those pesky smurfs

I would rather see a cover save or invul over fnp, at least for the smaller bugs. Tau and eldar have brought back a huge amount of s6+ shooting. If this trend continues and the next few dex's have this as well, fnp is only going to benefit the big bugs.

I would like to see a general increase in the psychic levels for the nids.(pay for it like others, bump the named ones to fit)

I'd love for swarmy to get armored shell and a small invul save out of combat, nothing fancy, a 5 will do. Call it a warp shield Tyrants can make but isn't as focused as zoans.

He may go up to warp mastey 3 or even 4 from what I hear at my GW though.

I also hear some hopeful rumors of a warp shield power to slap a 5++ on a unit.

No word on whether we get more than one table like other psyker heavy armies though.


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Of course my group are fond of "my brother's cousin's uncle's daughter's ex boyfriend's boss" kind of rumors

Level 4 swarmy! now that would be one serious bug. Can give great support if the powers are right and can destroy the foe as well!

 Hyrule Hero wrote:
Level 4 swarmy! now that would be one serious bug. Can give great support if the powers are right and can destroy the foe as well!

I'd also speculate on the Doom becoming a multi charge psyker since he is a giant floating god brain.

Pyrovores seem set for a buff too, and venom cannons seem to be agreed on dropping their arbitrary -1 damage penalty at least.

The groupthink here also cautiously predicts the new book getting a little into that "lol marines" shooting everyone else is. Can't agree on how just yet.

It's more group think trying to predict based on GW's typical decisions than standard rumors though.

 Kain wrote:

 Hyrule Hero wrote:
Level 4 swarmy! now that would be one serious bug. Can give great support if the powers are right and can destroy the foe as well!

I'd also speculate on the Doom becoming a multi charge psyker since he is a giant floating god brain.

Pyrovores seem set for a buff too, and venom cannons seem to be agreed on dropping their arbitrary -1 damage penalty at least.

The groupthink here also cautiously predicts the new book getting a little into that "lol marines" shooting everyone else is. Can't agree on how just yet.

It's more group think trying to predict based on GW's typical decisions than standard rumors though.

yeah the doom feels like a one trick pony at the moment. It's a very good trick but he feels like he could be so much more then he is

Stealth makes no sense at all for the smaller bugs.

More Psychic Powers would be pretty nice. You could have a sort of "Shared Warp Charge" system, which would represent Synapse and through it the link to the Hive Mind. You'd have a pool of Warp Charge and any unit in Synapse Range can use it to cast blessings upon themselves (all other types of powers would have to go through Psykers), using the Ld of the nearest Psyker to cast the spell.

An interesting method, but I'm maybe getting carried away here.

 The Shadow wrote:
Stealth makes no sense at all for the smaller bugs..

Bugs that can adapt and evolve to look like their surroundings and to become the strongest they can be in that environment against an enemy. Stealth makes a lot of sense. Or at least constant nightfighting.

And as we are this far away from a release...rumors are barely even out there for the book...predictions based on GW's money is always a better bet than on what makes sense for an army.

I also don't see any groupthink really happening here.

Tyranids in November! That is my wish list.

 ductvader wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Stealth makes no sense at all for the smaller bugs..

Bugs that can adapt and evolve to look like their surroundings and to become the strongest they can be in that environment against an enemy. Stealth makes a lot of sense. Or at least constant nightfighting.

The smaller bugs don't do that though. That's exactly what Lictors were made to do. The gaunts attack like the Arachnids in Starship Troopers. Waves and waves and waves of them with little regard for their personal wellbeing, whose sole purpose it is to overwhelm.

Catalyst should bestow feel no pain within the synapse bubble of the psykers that use the power.


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Hey, I just had another thought:

I noticed in the table of contents of the new Imperial Armour Apocalypse book, Malanthropes are getting an updated data sheet, as are Scythed hierodules, and Hierophants are getting some biomorph options. All cool, but sometimes the writing is between the lines....

Stone Crusher Carnifexes are NOT in the table of contents, nor are they listed in the apocalypse main book.

What if, this is a sign that the stone crusher variant will be potentially in the next codex release? Or rather, a 2+ armor save fex with crushing claws, that would make a stone-crusher variant obsolete?

perhaps i'm reading too much into the absence of a single data sheet, but i think it could mean something.

NIDS IN NOVEMBER! let's all chant it loudly so it comes true!

Nids in November with a new model!

Long shot, but I think it would be cool to bring genestealer hybrids back to life like the old days.

 eimaj wrote:
Long shot, but I think it would be cool to bring genestealer hybrids back to life like the old days.

To me this is just the sort of thing the nee army supplements should address.

Really, Tyranids are a huge concept. They don't need allies in their book, because there is already almost too much to represent.

- Infestation and scout swarms (Hormagaunts, Lictors, Genestealers)
- Tsunamis of lesser creatures without number (Termagants, Hormagaunts, Genestealers, Warriors, Tervigons)
- Line-breaking monster stampedes (Carnifexes, Tyrannofexes)
- Tunneling swarms (Raveners, Trygons, Mawlocs)
- Airborne swarms (Gargoyles, Harpies, Shrikes)
- Exotic specialists (Zoanthropes, Venomthropes, Biovores)
- Synapse web (Warriors, Tyrants, Tervigons)
- Consumption phase creatures (Malanthopes, Rippers, Pyrovores, Parasites)
- Mycetic assault swarms
- Tyrannoformation of the battlefield (there is so much untapped potential here; Spore Chimneys, Capillary Towers, Brood Nests, Reclamation Pools)

It's sort of understandable why the current book is a bit of a jumble. It's like Cruddace wanted to capture everything the Tyranids could bring, but couldn't quite get the job done (which in someways is understandable; no amount of internal playtesting is a substitute for a worldwide market, and no Tyranid book as ever had this much variety of units before; expect the next book to build upon the lessons learnt).

Hyrule Hero wrote:I mean don't get me wrong, some changes were nice with the new edition but if given the choice i'd take my old bugs any day.

And i know everyone will call me blasphemous for this but frankly i think that the Tervigon, while a great model and helps boost armies, has become a crutch for the Tyranids. And makes an army that's suppose to be constantly changing and adapting into a cookie cut army. But then again i guess it's not the poor prego bugs fault but that of HE WHO SHALL NOT BE NAMED

I will agree, it is a crutch. I do sigh a little at every list with maxed Flyrants and Tervigons.

fidel wrote:Doing some quick math - if we factor in the mutation points from the other addition and use the rules for synapse in this addition...

A 1500 pt army would include (not including elites or HQ or Heavy Support)

98 Hormagaunts (three troop choices)
98 Termagaunts (three troop choices)

That leaves about 300-400 points to play with for 1500 list...

and remember... all that brood is synapse now without needing synapse....

Wait a second ...this is what we had in previous editions? Why did they take away these wonderful items before I heard about this game! Time to continue work on my time machine. I mean really! I love horde probably more than the next guy...but that...I can fit so many wounds into a list at that point.

Hyrule Hero wrote:I guess everyone can agree we want to see the carnifex back in action with better/more upgrade options but not costing a crud load of points.

And our assault based army should be better equipped at assaulting

One thing i'd like to really see bumped up a bit, especially with the (rumored) edition of a harpy model, would be spore mines. They seem like they have so much potential to be way more of a pain in the ass to the enemy then they are now. Orbital deployment can make these little guys really krunk up an enemy armies movement

I have been hoping that our next major release is a harpy. We are the only codex that I know of that has no actual flier models (Flyrant not included.)

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:One last thing: Bring back rules for the Red Terror! And make it and the the Deathleaper upgrade characters rather than having them take up a whole slot by themselves (unless of course they're giving the Red Terror the kickass "Swallowed Whole!" rule)

To be honest, I could see the Red Terror being an upgrade comparable to the Broodlord. It makes sense.

ductvader wrote:I prefer the lack of invulnerable saves to an increase in FnP.

For MCs...a 5+ FnP is better than a 5+ invuln any day.

It also makes them fluffier as invulns don't make sense for anything outside of agility for bugs...except for the giant brains that are zoeys

A Tyrant shouldn't have an invuln...instead he can be T6-9 and take a 2+ save...and then all he has to deal with is unwieldy weapons...and super special weapons.

To be honest, I would see all the Tyranid monstrous creatures have access to It Will Not Die! as regeneration.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Hey, I just had another thought:

I noticed in the table of contents of the new Imperial Armour Apocalypse book, Malanthropes are getting an updated data sheet, as are Scythed hierodules, and Hierophants are getting some biomorph options. All cool, but sometimes the writing is between the lines....

Stone Crusher Carnifexes are NOT in the table of contents, nor are they listed in the apocalypse main book.

What if, this is a sign that the stone crusher variant will be potentially in the next codex release? Or rather, a 2+ armor save fex with crushing claws, that would make a stone-crusher variant obsolete?

perhaps i'm reading too much into the absence of a single data sheet, but i think it could mean something.

NIDS IN NOVEMBER! let's all chant it loudly so it comes true!

A few things.

Games Workshop have said publicly they're not cannibalising Forgeworld for kits anymore - and since they said that, they haven't, and have plenty of opportunities to do so. The Crusher being in the codex is very, very unlikely. Add to that the fact that the wrecker ball biomorph appears in the rulebook, and it also seems unlikely that the kit is going away.

It's worth noting the Stonecrusher was never meant to have its own rules - the Carapace was there to represent the Thronback biomorph, the only carapace GW didn't put in the Carnifex box, and the Crushing Claws were meant to represent the ability to take 2 sets, something GW got rid of in 5th edition. The Wrecker Ball biomorph was meant to represent the Cities of Death Wrecker strategem (I think it was Wrecker - the strategem that made a unit better at wrecking buildings).

Given all of that, it's perfectly reasonable GW could bring back the dual Crushing Claw and Thornback options, maybe even the Wreckerball, which would give the kit its original purpose back, and not cannibalise FW's kits, since the Stonecrusher doesn't exist anymore as a unit, and those options can be converted anyway.

In regards to FNP I always thought it was a perfectly suitable rule for synapse. Last codex everything was eternal warrior to represent the effect the Hive Mind has on the swarm but FNP I think is a much more suitable special rule for this. I don't think it would be too broken if Synapse Creatures had FNP (5+) and non synapse creatures in synapse range had FNP (6+). You could even give certain special characters like the Swarm Lord FNP (4+) to have him stand out even further.

I could get on board with the above but it must be realize that GW is working towards simplifying rules...especially army wide rules...and so it would probably be an all or nothing kkind of thing. Though I Believe it's going to be a psychic power, if not only a LD test. LD 10 barely cares but it has the chance of failure.

IB is where I reckon things will change. I don't think feed will stay rage personally...it's too useful to be "the downside"...as lurk has the downside of not being able to get within range if weapons. In factt, I don't see any of the current USRs to be feed-like.

I'd actually prefer a return to the old Instinctive Behaviour. Pass a LD check or fall back to the nearest Synapse Creature, showing them seeking out the hive minds leadership rather than simply going rogue.

and free to act as you wish without synapse on the board?

 ductvader wrote:
and free to act as you wish without synapse on the board?

... no. Then you would fall back as per normal, towards your table edge.

I started 40k about 8 months ago. I started with DE and switched to nids about a month later. I'd like to see them get some movement rules to speed them up since the majority of the units can't take pods, also some special assaulting from deep strike options would be nice. I'd like to see a reason for me to actually buy a carnifex model as i have no plans to ever get one the way they are now. Most importantly some help to the swarm lord, like an invul outside of cc. He has so much great fluff but using an assault based hq in a shooting based edition leaves some gaps. I still bring him over a second flyrant, i don't care if its not competitive, i just like his fluff.