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No, I don't mean bad. You can win with fluffy lists.

I think the first thing that any reader of this thread should do is strip away all of the pointless and reasonless negativity and hate. You're left with a codex that has lots of options and opportunities, and has plenty of ways that you can play things and win games. Taking a few moments to do the math on "awful" units even shows them fairly priced for what you get.

The only thing I'd say really let me down about the current codex is the structure of the codex itself. Let's say I'm looking at a chaos lord. It says I can take a mark. So I turn back to the wargear list. It says how much a mark costs, but not what it does. So then I have to go even further back, over the pictures section and find out that a mark of khorne gives furious charge. Now, after having had to look in three different places in the codex, I now have to go to the rulebook to look up what furious charge is. It's absurd. I mean, it's so poorly layed out that it needs an INDEX. For just 20 pages of rules. What kind of idiocy is that?

And the worst part is that there's so much reduplication that they didn't have as much space for fluff, which I'd also agree is somewhat sad in the new codex. They could easily have freed up a few pages if they had done things right to at least give a brief overview of what the different chaos gods were.

Other than that, I guess you've just got to bring your umbrella of reason to keep yourself clean from the emotional poopstorm that everyone else seems to be pitching.

MassiveRod wrote:

Also, Ailaros I'm going to assume you don't play Chaos because your argument is deeply flawed. However I shall not be bothering to correct you as I intend to practice my karoke instead.

He does, and he's had success with stuff that's apparently "bad".

Its a usable codex, sure. You can make some interesting armies sure. But it's boring and that's the greatest sin when it comes to a game that's supposed to be for fun.
Tzeench sorcerers, the guys that get their powers from the god that basically created magic; suck
Zerkers, the kings of close combat: suck
1kSons, priced like termintors, die like marines.
Warp Talons, suck. (over priced with no grenades.)
no options for land raiders. (They make dino bots but can't make their own LR varients?)
took away noise marine weapons for dreadnaughts. (fluffy)
took away cult terminators (fluffy and competitive)
no fluffy options for vehicles like warp fire cannons or whatever.
Defiler has giant cannon, can fire that or his other guns. Not both. Fragile, too expensive.
No assault transports for zerkers unless you want to spend half your points on crappy land raiders.
No legion specific rules. (what if I don't want to take Huron for an alpha Legion army.)
It's all just kind of basic and bland. Not awful. Even with the above flaws its still very playable, but compared to what it should have been, it's a missed opportunity.

So I turn back to the wargear list. It says how much a mark costs, but not what it does. So then I have to go even further back, over the pictures section and find out that a mark of khorne gives furious charge.

Which it doesn't, it gives rage/counter-attack.

Only the banner gives furious charge (Unless you're a Bezerker, who automatically has FC)

Maybe supplements will be able to increase competitive CSM list diversity. Supplements are GWs way of fixing mistakes and charging money for them

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

MassiveRod wrote:

Also, Ailaros I'm going to assume you don't play Chaos because your argument is deeply flawed. However I shall not be bothering to correct you as I intend to practice my karoke instead.

He does, and he's had success with stuff that's apparently "bad".

One lucky win and a win against a terrible GK list? Ok then. Lets see him play Tau and get completely wrecked and then make a complaint thread like he did with guard. Plus he's only played 2 games. Statistical outliers can happen.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

MassiveRod wrote:

Also, Ailaros I'm going to assume you don't play Chaos because your argument is deeply flawed. However I shall not be bothering to correct you as I intend to practice my karoke instead.

He does, and he's had success with stuff that's apparently "bad".

One lucky win and a win against a terrible GK list? Ok then. Lets see him play Tau and get completely wrecked and then make a complaint thread like he did with guard. Plus he's only played 2 games. Statistical outliers can happen.

I wanna see him against Eldar myself, what with the skimmers and such.

 Ailaros wrote:


The only thing I'd say really let me down about the current codex is the structure of the codex itself. Let's say I'm looking at a chaos lord. It says I can take a mark. So I turn back to the wargear list. It says how much a mark costs, but not what it does. So then I have to go even further back, over the pictures section and find out that a mark of khorne gives furious charge. Now, after having had to look in three different places in the codex, I now have to go to the rulebook to look up what furious charge is. It's absurd. I mean, it's so poorly layed out that it needs an INDEX. For just 20 pages of rules. What kind of idiocy is that?

And the worst part is that there's so much reduplication that they didn't have as much space for fluff, which I'd also agree is somewhat sad in the new codex. They could easily have freed up a few pages if they had done things right to at least give a brief overview of what the different chaos gods were.

This!

I hate the organization of the 'dex. So much so that I've taken to creating my own tables and supplements to organize the information so that I can find it in one place without having to thumb back-and-forth between sections! And don't get me started on having to refer to the rule book to find out what "Hatred" means, or the multiple times even in the rulebook that I find an entry, only to be referred to another entry (but no page number!).

I guess I *sort* of understand why it needs to refer to the core rulebook - in the event that the rulebook changes or gets an FAQ entry...but still...sheesh!

-Aeglos

aeglos wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:


The only thing I'd say really let me down about the current codex is the structure of the codex itself. Let's say I'm looking at a chaos lord. It says I can take a mark. So I turn back to the wargear list. It says how much a mark costs, but not what it does. So then I have to go even further back, over the pictures section and find out that a mark of khorne gives furious charge. Now, after having had to look in three different places in the codex, I now have to go to the rulebook to look up what furious charge is. It's absurd. I mean, it's so poorly layed out that it needs an INDEX. For just 20 pages of rules. What kind of idiocy is that?

And the worst part is that there's so much reduplication that they didn't have as much space for fluff, which I'd also agree is somewhat sad in the new codex. They could easily have freed up a few pages if they had done things right to at least give a brief overview of what the different chaos gods were.

This!

I hate the organization of the 'dex. So much so that I've taken to creating my own tables and supplements to organize the information so that I can find it in one place without having to thumb back-and-forth between sections! And don't get me started on having to refer to the rule book to find out what "Hatred" means, or the multiple times even in the rulebook that I find an entry, only to be referred to another entry (but no page number!).

I guess I *sort* of understand why it needs to refer to the core rulebook - in the event that the rulebook changes or gets an FAQ entry...but still...sheesh!

-Aeglos

Agreed... the organization of the book is pure - chaos ...hey!

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Which it doesn't, it gives rage/counter-attack.

Even worse!

MWHistorian wrote:But it's boring
... suck
... suck
...suck. (over priced)
... competitive)
... too expensive.
...crappy

It's all just kind of basic and bland. Not awful.

So your argument is that things aren't bad, they're boring, and then most of the examples you give of how they're boring is because they're bad.

Hmm...

aeglos wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:


The only thing I'd say really let me down about the current codex is the structure of the codex itself. Let's say I'm looking at a chaos lord. It says I can take a mark. So I turn back to the wargear list. It says how much a mark costs, but not what it does. So then I have to go even further back, over the pictures section and find out that a mark of khorne gives furious charge. Now, after having had to look in three different places in the codex, I now have to go to the rulebook to look up what furious charge is. It's absurd. I mean, it's so poorly layed out that it needs an INDEX. For just 20 pages of rules. What kind of idiocy is that?

And the worst part is that there's so much reduplication that they didn't have as much space for fluff, which I'd also agree is somewhat sad in the new codex. They could easily have freed up a few pages if they had done things right to at least give a brief overview of what the different chaos gods were.

This!

I hate the organization of the 'dex. So much so that I've taken to creating my own tables and supplements to organize the information so that I can find it in one place without having to thumb back-and-forth between sections! And don't get me started on having to refer to the rule book to find out what "Hatred" means, or the multiple times even in the rulebook that I find an entry, only to be referred to another entry (but no page number!).

I guess I *sort* of understand why it needs to refer to the core rulebook - in the event that the rulebook changes or gets an FAQ entry...but still...sheesh!

-Aeglos

Maybe the iPad version would be better with the pop ups? I kid there. I just wonder if this was GW plan so the iPad version seems more enticing.

I sort of agree with the CSM codex and disagree with it.

The things I disagree with:
-No Dreadclaw drop pods (ever since I saw the SM codex in 2008 with the plastic drop pod, I had hoped the CSM would get a variation of DP as well, then 'Nids came along with their own variation of DP, you know the most alien of all Xeno's get a variation of DP so this would led me to believe foolishly I may add that CSM would have their own DP... Oh no they got b***** Helldrakes instead)... I always wanted to make a drop pod list.

-1k sons suck harder then a lone squig. this was the legion I initially started out as, as I really liked Ahriman's fluff, I started out with the 4th ed. codex, which was horrible and the 1k sons I really liked but in every competitive game I had played made them into a dust pile, so without further option I had changed my warband to an custom undivided warband I have made (since I really liked the colours of my paintjob on my CSM)

-our playstyle did not change much, as in its still plague spam with added noise marines and Helldrakes, whether the Tau and the Eldar really got a big boost and changed their playstyle they got new rules which does indeed make me jealous and tbh a tad angry, but this would be going into my CSM/GW relationship theory...

-There was not further delving into the codex: When I say this I mean they added new units such as Warpsmiths and Dark Apostles, BUT they did not delve in to these, for example they could have added a variation of servitor but no they did not.

things I liked in this Edition:

-Daemon machines: I really like to mech up and I liked the Idea of Defilers, so more Daemon Machines are great

-Boon table: I like this because (although its a slim chance) I can turn a champ into a Daemon prince

-Warpsmiths: love these guys so much, so glad they made a beautiful models with it.

All in all I feel this Codex is sort of gimmicky or only for the casual gamer, (which I am, which is also great and I am very thankful that my Gaming area is also Casual atm as well) and tbh this isn't really codex CSM competitively, it is Codex Plague Dupstep Turkeys.

 Ailaros wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Which it doesn't, it gives rage/counter-attack.

Even worse!

MWHistorian wrote:But it's boring
... suck
... suck
...suck. (over priced)
... competitive)
... too expensive.
...crappy

It's all just kind of basic and bland. Not awful.

So your argument is that things aren't bad, they're boring, and then most of the examples you give of how they're boring is because they're bad.

Hmm...

Way to use your reading comprehension there. I said, in spite of the suckitude the codex has, it's really not awful. The biggest sin is that's its boring.
I'll say it another way just in case. Third time's the charm.
The codex has some major functional issues. Yes. But it's still a workable codex and has some fun options. The biggest problem is that's its bland, unlfavorful and boring. (not a lot of story driven ideas there.)

it's just as boring and watered down as the codex it replaced.

it doesnt represent the legions well, terrible internal balance, dinobot and hellturkey=stupid.

most arnt asking for anything broken or overpowered. we want something atleast interesting.

kb305 wrote:
it's just as boring and watered down as the codex it replaced.

it doesnt represent the legions well, terrible internal balance, dinobot and hellturkey=stupid.

most arnt asking for anything broken or overpowered. we want something atleast interesting.

This.

kb305 wrote:
it's just as boring and watered down as the codex it replaced.

it doesnt represent the legions well, terrible internal balance, dinobot and hellturkey=stupid.

most arnt asking for anything broken or overpowered. we want something atleast interesting.

Pretty much this.

Codex: Plague and turkey is go.

It just went from Dual lash/Plague to Lord/Plague/Drakes.

That's boring players, not a boring codex.

You don't, in any way, need to play plague marines and helldrakes. You don't need to play plague marines and helldrakes to be competitive.

If you say "the only thing I like are a couple of units, therefore the codex only has a couple of units, which makes the codex boring" it's YOU MAKING the codex boring, not the sign of a boring codex.

Ok, let me preface this with: my primary army is Thousand Sons. I have a beautifully painted Thousand Sons army, and I regularly take them to both local tournaments and GTs and do decently well with them. In my local scene particularly, I do very well. That said...

The real issue with the 6th edition Chaos Marine book is that it doesn't support the armies that people want to play. GW has given us this AMAZING backstory with chaos legions, the Horus Heresy, chaos gods, and then given us a codex that doesn't represent that at all. When I look at the 6th edition Chaos book (and the last one, for that matter) what I see is a book intended to represent chaos renegade forces.

I think a comparison best illustrates this. If I wanted to start an Eldar army, and I really enjoyed the fluff of Ulthwe, I'm given some background guidance (Ulthwe is heavily focused in psychic powers, and they utilize black guardians) but at the end of the day, an Ulthwe force can contain EVERY unit in the Eldar codex. This allows an Ulthwe player to use the full width and breadth of his codex to build everything from purely fluffy lists to extreme competitive ones. On the other hand, we have my Thousand Sons army. I'm given some background guidance (the Thousand Sons are heavily psychic focused, every marine is either a psyker or dust in a suit of armor, they worship Tzeentch). But unlike the Ulthwe army, there are numerous units in my codex that do not belong in my Thousand Sons force. Ignoring small issues like Tzeentch-marked Terminators not actually being Thousand Sons terminators (which while annoying, is a battle I gave up on long ago), I'm still playing with a SIGNIFICANTLY reduced codex. I can't speak for the other chaos legion players, but I have a feeling they'd probably agree with me.

Now, you may argue that there's nothing preventing me from running Plague Marines, or a Khorne lord on a Juggernaut, or anything else for that matter, but I believe that the fluff is very clear, those units don't belong in a Thousand Sons army. Games Workshop has sold me on an army concept and then failed to deliver the rules to support it. Imagine if the background for Iyanden stated that every living Eldar on the craftworld was dead, and only the Wraith constructs were left. Iyanden players would be limited to a very small number of units if they wished to remain consistent with the background. Sure, they can take all of the other units, but they would have to paint them in the colors of other craftworlds. It wouldn't be an Iyanden army any more, it'd be a coalition of Eldar forces. I doubt Iyanden players would be very happy with the current Eldar book if that was the case.

I hope what you're getting from this isn't "I want the Chaos book to be all powerful and crush everyone, with millions of options." What I hope you get from this is that I want to have access to a full codex's list of options and units regardless of the theme I choose to play (without completely overpowering the player who chooses to ignore fluff and take simply the most powerful options), instead of having each theme limit me to a fraction of the codex. I've stopped expanding my Thousand Sons army because I won't ever use more than the models I have in a single game. My list of thematic choices removes a large number of possibilities from the codex, and every one of those is a unit that I will never buy or paint. Not only is this frustrating for me as a player, but I can't imagine GW is happy with the situation either- they've produced many kits that supposedly cater to my chosen army, but that I will never purchase.

Why does GW print dozens of books about the Horus Heresy and the traitor legions, and then give us codex: renegade chapters? In this codex it is impossible to represent a 41st Millennium chaos legion...except MAYBE Black Legion. Don't get me wrong, I actually like the codex, it's not over powered. It's fairly balanced and you can make some interesting armies...but it's not CSM as we know and love. It's a codex of missed opportunities fluff wise. some simple fixes could really help this codes. ectoplasma cannons on the land raider, blast masters on the forgefiends, cult terminators etc etc etc. These are simple, not over powered, and add a lot of fluff that really screams CHAOS. But alas, we have a codex filled with units with bi-polar rules (mutilators, warptalons etc), are severely overcosted (1K sons, defilers etc) or just don't represent the Legions we know and love. I still love chaos space marines, and will still play them but the codex leaves me with a feeling of blaaah.

I have to disagree. Yes, I really miss the hey-day of 4th where you could tailor your codex by picking from a selection of army traits to make you force unique, or at least having different special rules for every legion (in the case of the Chaos 'dex).

On the otherhand, I think overall the CSM book isn't all that bad. True when held up against the likes of the Tau and Eldar books, it can be a little uninspiring and yes, there are a few very pants units in there. But it's strength lies in it's versatility. You want an assault list. You can do it, (but with only Landraiders as assault vehicles, it'lll be expensive unless you take an assaulting bike army). You want shooty? It does that too. You wan't a mix of both? Yes, it can be done.

It's the sheer number of lists I can put together that sells the codex for me. I can field a Nurgle army one day, a Khorne one the next or I can mix-and-match powers here and there.

I think CCM in 6th is what DE were in 5th: a versatile codex that lets you build an army for every occassion, rather than forcing you to use the same handful of lists over and over again (Helldrakes not withstanding. I don't own even one, and I've never felt crippled by their absence from my army).

So yes, it is a flawed book. But a handful of crap units, a small number of meh units and a lack of legion customisation options does not make it a bad codex.

But I'm digressing. If you really feel you must use a difference codex to get the feel of a specific legion, don't overlook the customisation options provided by allies.

CSM and IG works well for Alpha Legion (old style fluff) or Word Bearers.

CSM and Death Korps of Kreig works well for Iron Warriors

Blood Angels worrks well for Night Lords

Necrons work well for Dark Mekanicus

Grey Knights work extremely well for Thousand Sons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ailaros wrote:
That's boring players, not a boring codex.

You don't, in any way, need to play plague marines and helldrakes. You don't need to play plague marines and helldrakes to be competitive.

If you say "the only thing I like are a couple of units, therefore the codex only has a couple of units, which makes the codex boring" it's YOU MAKING the codex boring, not the sign of a boring codex.

Once again, I find myself agreeing 100% with Aliaros when it comes to CSM. Which is odd given how often we've disagreed in the past concerning the IG.

 Ailaros wrote:
That's boring players, not a boring codex.

You don't, in any way, need to play plague marines and helldrakes. You don't need to play plague marines and helldrakes to be competitive.

If you say "the only thing I like are a couple of units, therefore the codex only has a couple of units, which makes the codex boring" it's YOU MAKING the codex boring, not the sign of a boring codex.

I agree 100%... and honestly most of the crying I've seen over the years came from players with the most beard-neck, obnoxious "fluffy" 3rd ed armies like iron warriors etc...

"Want Khorne? Just use BA! LOL!"
All the good Dex's require you to use other Dex's to make the army you want. I love in the Necron dex how you need to use the SM dex to make a good shooty army. That's great design!

I think the Black Legion Supplement will give us a better idea how GW wants to give us the rules for the Traitor Legions. Maybe we'll see some good build up from the book that adds to the book in a way that allows for those various fluffy armies people want to run outside of the basic Renegade faction.

I remain optimistic.

Aside from that, I didn't see anything particularly wrong with the CSM book until the Heldrake FAQ occurred. I'm okay with the intent (it's able to turn it's head, ect) but that really upped the flamer option's power level for no additional cost. On a fairly strong flyer platform no less. I'd like to see a -small- points bump to take the Baleflamer is all.

That said the rest of the book looks at least middle-of-the road or better in terms of power level. Sure some things out class others but I really don't see anything in the book that can't be used to win games if used well. Granted dice can always cause good plans to go out the window, but that's a different story honestly.

A lot of people seem to be getting annoyed at me, and I feel there's a misunderstanding.

I'm not saying that it's a 'weak' or 'bad' book. I can see how some very viable and functional lists can be made with it, and I'm sure some people are enjoying it.

My issue is that the book still feels like a Black Legion 'dex, now with the addition of robot dinosaurs (which I neither understand or like, but again, that's a personal choice).

What I loved about 3.5 was that there were special rules and items for EIGHT different legions. In 4th and 6th, the only thing picking a certain legion changes is your paint scheme. What I hoped for is just a couple additional pages somewhere that have some limitations and benefits for each legion. Additional Heavy Weapons for Iron Warriors, Raptors as Troops for Night Lords, sonic weapons on vehicles for Emperor's Children, Inferno Bolts for Thousand Sons Terminators, etc. These are the sorts of things that CSM players were giddy over the idea of getting, and instead we got mechanical flying dragons and gorilla/dog robots with mechanical tentacles.

 SirDigby wrote:


My issue is that the book still feels like a Black Legion 'dex, now with the addition of robot dinosaurs (which I neither understand or like, but again, that's a personal choice).

How exactly does that make it a Black Legion codex? This opinion was bandied about in the BL supplement thread. There is exactly one BL special character. An unmarked lord unlocks nothing, unmarked troops get nothing special and there is no generic daemon weapon option, if you don't like the Black Mace you're gak outta luck. So how exactly does this represent a Legion that is known for having cult troops in massive numbers, as well as probably hundreds of Lords and their warbands?

To address the fluff concerns about legions. They're all supposed to be fractured. It's been 10,000 years. Most of the participants of the Horus Heresy are dead. Most of the legions don't do stuff together. The primarchs are off doing their own thing. People like Ahriman and Lucious are doing their own thing. There are no legions. That's why it's codex chaos space marines, not codex chaos legions. The FW Horus Heresy supplements are there to allow people to play corrupted legions.

As for flavor of legion units. You can easily create Alpha Legion, Word Bearer, Iron Warrior, Black Legion armies. You can even create armies dedicated to the four chaos gods.

So the biggest gripe I see is that vehicles cannot be marked. Dreadnoughts can't take sonic weaponry. Well, why would a dreadnought have a sonic cannon. The guy is totally deprived of sensation. How can he even enjoy a sound cannon? He can't rock out properly to appreciate it.

Nurgle terminators can't take FNP like plague marines? Well they never could in the 3.5 dex either.

I feel that people want to play the units that they like or already have and those units be uber awesome. That's what passes as a desire for "flavor". Units that a person likes being strong.

bogalubov wrote:
So the biggest gripe I see is that vehicles cannot be marked. Dreadnoughts can't take sonic weaponry. Well, why would a dreadnought have a sonic cannon. The guy is totally deprived of sensation. How can he even enjoy a sound cannon? He can't rock out properly to appreciate it.

Nurgle terminators can't take FNP like plague marines? Well they never could in the 3.5 dex either.

See, these arguments are disingenuous. A Marine interned in a Dreadnaught isn't Deaf, Dumb and Blind. They can't feel tactile sensations, i.e. touch things. If they couldn't see or hear they'd be utterly useless as warriors. There's absolutely no reason a Dreadnaught wouldn't mount a Sonic Cannon, and in fact he'd be likely to mount an even bigger one to try and compensate for his inability to feel the tactile feedback from melee weapons.

And the reason people complain about FNP on Nurgle Terminators is not for the sake of FNP, it's because they don't have FNP while the power armour troops do. The reason it wasn't a problem in 3.5 was because neither had FNP. It's a problem of consistency, not power. Why are Terminators less capable than Power Armour legionnaires? Why are the marines wearing Terminator Armour less skilled than the ones wearing Power Armour, even though they have to be more skilled to be allowed to wear the armour in the first place? Why does wearing Terminator Armour suddenly make you a recruit rather than a veteran?

I think the most important thing to realize is that with the release of Codex: Iyanden, (And the soon release of Farsight Enclaves and Black Legion) We can reasonably expect more legion books for stuff like World Eaters, Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion.

I agree with Ailaros though. The glass is either half empty or half full, depending on how you want to see it. You can work with what you have or not work at all, really.

 Cryonicleech wrote:
I think the most important thing to realize is that with the release of Codex: Iyanden, (And the soon release of Farsight Enclaves and Black Legion) We can reasonably expect more legion books for stuff like World Eaters, Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion.

That could, potentially, fix some of the problems. Of course it's going to have to, at minimum, include rules for Legion Terminators and Legion HQs, or you run into the same problem of "Why is my warlord less skilled than a line trooper?" What it's unlikely to fix is when the basic trooper over-priced and terrible, for example Thousand Sons. They can't realistically over-write the existing unit entries, although they could probably go a long way by giving the Sorcerer some options and disentangling him from the worthless Tzeentch Lore.

Chrysis wrote:

bogalubov wrote:
So the biggest gripe I see is that vehicles cannot be marked. Dreadnoughts can't take sonic weaponry. Well, why would a dreadnought have a sonic cannon. The guy is totally deprived of sensation. How can he even enjoy a sound cannon? He can't rock out properly to appreciate it.

Nurgle terminators can't take FNP like plague marines? Well they never could in the 3.5 dex either.

See, these arguments are disingenuous. A Marine interned in a Dreadnaught isn't Deaf, Dumb and Blind. They can't feel tactile sensations, i.e. touch things. If they couldn't see or hear they'd be utterly useless as warriors. There's absolutely no reason a Dreadnaught wouldn't mount a Sonic Cannon, and in fact he'd be likely to mount an even bigger one to try and compensate for his inability to feel the tactile feedback from melee weapons.

And the reason people complain about FNP on Nurgle Terminators is not for the sake of FNP, it's because they don't have FNP while the power armour troops do. The reason it wasn't a problem in 3.5 was because neither had FNP. It's a problem of consistency, not power. Why are Terminators less capable than Power Armour legionnaires? Why are the marines wearing Terminator Armour less skilled than the ones wearing Power Armour, even though they have to be more skilled to be allowed to wear the armour in the first place? Why does wearing Terminator Armour suddenly make you a recruit rather than a veteran?

Can you explain why the master of magic is the worst at it? Or why a Death Guard Marine suddenly loses his powers when he puts on terminator armor? Or how they can make crazy dino bots but not have Land Raider variants? Etc etc etc. It all goes to show a codex that wasn't thought out very well.