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Honestly anybody complaining about the chapter mechanics think about the chaos book. I (and I'm sure anybody else with a csm legion army collecting dust) would kill to have any amount of army wide legion specific rules...

This book sounds like it's going to be awesome. Ultramarines might end up the best based on what we know now, but all of the chapters seem viable.

Edit: To answer the question on the last page - both the new tanks are AA. One has 4 shots S7, one has 1 shot S7 AP2 Armorbane IIRC. Neither has interceptor though, so I can't imagine them having much use unless your local meta is dominated by flying stuff.

xxvaderxx wrote:
Anyone know what what the new Hunter tank fires?, the AA one is rather luckluster.

One shot at 60" with S7 and AP2.
But I think we are missing a rule, since it's higher in price than the Stalker with Heavy 4 and the possibility to split its fire.

Edit: Aah yes, armour bane! So it's almost a guaranteed penetrate while the other one needs 5+ to even glance AV12

I'm still waiting to see a rumor that says that the AA tanks actually have *skyfire*. It's entirely possible that they have a weird 'Fire at full ballistic skill against flying and non-flying' rule. Heck, it's possible that they can't even shoot at fliers at full BS. That'd be a bit surprising, but who the hell knows.

 Lansirill wrote:
I'm still waiting to see a rumor that says that the AA tanks actually have *skyfire*. It's entirely possible that they have a weird 'Fire at full ballistic skill against flying and non-flying' rule. Heck, it's possible that they can't even shoot at fliers at full BS. That'd be a bit surprising, but who the hell knows.

An anti-flyer model with one shot that only snap shots?
The rumours are pretty clear, you snapshot against ground-targets, which is quite fair if you consider the fact that they are 70 and 75 points per tank.

Kangodo wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
Anyone know what what the new Hunter tank fires?, the AA one is rather luckluster.

One shot at 60" with S7 and AP2.
But I think we are missing a rule, since it's higher in price than the Stalker with Heavy 4 and the possibility to split its fire.

Edit: Aah yes, armour bane! So it's almost a guaranteed penetrate while the other one needs 5+ to even glance AV12

But the stalker is anti air, i dont think the hunter is AA, it does not like like it, looks more like an artillery piece on wheels.

Its good anti armor, dont get me wrong, but 1 shot?, does not seem all that grate, its not like we lack the means to take on armor, even 13 or better. I think we are either missing rules or it has to be something like 80 points or less to make it worth it, heck i would say less than 70. If it is anti air, then im getting one, just to give the hell chickens the finger.

 Lansirill wrote:
I'm still waiting to see a rumor that says that the AA tanks actually have *skyfire*. It's entirely possible that they have a weird 'Fire at full ballistic skill against flying and non-flying' rule. Heck, it's possible that they can't even shoot at fliers at full BS. That'd be a bit surprising, but who the hell knows.

Don't all the rumors confirm Skyfire?

It's Interceptor that they're lacking.

Q: Does the Stalker and Hunter have Skyfire?
A: Yes, but they do not have interceptor.

..........

 wtwlf123 wrote:

 Lansirill wrote:
I'm still waiting to see a rumor that says that the AA tanks actually have *skyfire*. It's entirely possible that they have a weird 'Fire at full ballistic skill against flying and non-flying' rule. Heck, it's possible that they can't even shoot at fliers at full BS. That'd be a bit surprising, but who the hell knows.

Don't all the rumors confirm Skyfire?

It's Interceptor that they're lacking.

Q: Does the Stalker and Hunter have Skyfire?
A: Yes, but they do not have interceptor.

..........

I stand corrected, no way im fielding a Stalker, but what is the point cost of the hunter?.


By the way, lol this is broken as hell:
Tactical - The Tactical detachment re-rolls ones

So my terminators get to reroll armor saves of 1?. same for my assault squads including attack rolls. Pseudo twinlink devastors AND tanks?. Everything other than tacs get their save improved from 66% to 79%, only 5% worst than Terminators!!!

Heh, slow on the draw.

Thanks. I must've simply missed it from looking at the long Q&A lists. I'm mostly only following what gets posted to Dakka in any detail at all.

Crazyterran wrote:
Khan is 150 on the bike, and the Captain would be more than 90 with the bike and wargear...

I know, but I'm talking about their base costs, which dropped 35pts and 10pts respectively along with Moondraken getting 15pts cheaper. This and the drop in the price of Bikes means having to take the second Captain probably won't cause your army to be any smaller.

I always thought it was a bit weird that Khan had to buy his ride as a seperate upgrade.

xxvaderxx wrote:Anyone know what what the new Hunter tank fires?, the AA one is rather luckluster.

60", S7, AP2, Armorbane, Heavy 1, Skyfire

The Stalker is 48", S7, AP4, Heavy 4, Skyfire and has a rule that lets it shoot at 2 targets at a reduced BS.

wtwlf123 wrote:Aren't they both AA tanks?

They are, and neither has Interceptor.

ClockworkZion wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:Anyone know what what the new Hunter tank fires?, the AA one is rather luckluster.

60", S7, AP2, Armorbane, Heavy 1, Skyfire

The Stalker is 48", S7, AP4, Heavy 4, Skyfire and has a rule that lets it shoot at 2 targets at a reduced BS.

wtwlf123 wrote:Aren't they both AA tanks?

They are, and neither has Interceptor.

Can they be upgraded to have it?. A dedicated platform with no skyfire is essentially going to get owned the turn those flyers come in, might as well leave it at home at get something that can actually do some harm.

If the Hunter gets interceptor for a reasonable price, i would get one, no chance im fielding one with out it.

No Interceptor at all in the army.

Q: Do any units have Interceptor?
A: No.

Q: Do the AA tanks have to snapshot at ground targets (i.e. do they only have skyfire, but no interceptor?)
A: AA tanks do not have interceptor.

Q: Is there any unit or weapon in the new codex with Interceptor rule?
A: No

Q: Does the Stalker and Hunter have Skyfire?
A: Yes, but they do not have interceptor.

Q: Two small questions on the new tanks: what are their AV values? And do either of them have interceptor?
A: AV 12 12 10 and no interceptor, I repeat no interceptor.

 wtwlf123 wrote:
Q: Do any units have Interceptor?
A: No.

Q: Do the AA tanks have to snapshot at ground targets (i.e. do they only have skyfire, but no interceptor?)
A: AA tanks do not have interceptor.

Q: Is there any unit or weapon in the new codex with Interceptor rule?
A: No

Q: Does the Stalker and Hunter have Skyfire?
A: Yes, but they do not have interceptor.

Q: Two small questions on the new tanks: what are their AV values? And do either of them have interceptor?
A: AV 12 12 10 and no interceptor, I repeat no interceptor.

Lol seems like most people are think the same "why do i want this gun if it can not fire at anything other than 3 or 4 things top and its going to get blown by those same things with out even firing its gun".

xxvaderxx wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:Anyone know what what the new Hunter tank fires?, the AA one is rather luckluster.

60", S7, AP2, Armorbane, Heavy 1, Skyfire

The Stalker is 48", S7, AP4, Heavy 4, Skyfire and has a rule that lets it shoot at 2 targets at a reduced BS.

wtwlf123 wrote:Aren't they both AA tanks?

They are, and neither has Interceptor.

Can they be upgraded to have it?. A dedicated platform with no skyfire is essentially going to get owned the turn those flyers come in, might as well leave it at home at get something that can actually do some harm.

If the Hunter gets interceptor for a reasonable price, i would get one, no chance im fielding one with out it.

Why does every AA unit have to have interceptor? maybe the techmarines didn't figure that an AA tank neded to be firing on ground troops?

xxvaderxx wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:Anyone know what what the new Hunter tank fires?, the AA one is rather luckluster.

60", S7, AP2, Armorbane, Heavy 1, Skyfire

The Stalker is 48", S7, AP4, Heavy 4, Skyfire and has a rule that lets it shoot at 2 targets at a reduced BS.

wtwlf123 wrote:Aren't they both AA tanks?

They are, and neither has Interceptor.

Can they be upgraded to have it?. A dedicated platform with no skyfire is essentially going to get owned the turn those flyers come in, might as well leave it at home at get something that can actually do some harm.

If the Hunter gets interceptor for a reasonable price, i would get one, no chance im fielding one with out it.

Not as far as I've heard so far. Good question, I'll ask it when they get through the 3-4 I've got pending!

Q: Do you have the points cost for AA tanks?
A: Stalker = 70, Hunter = 75

EDIT: Both tanks are 12/12/10.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:Anyone know what what the new Hunter tank fires?, the AA one is rather luckluster.

60", S7, AP2, Armorbane, Heavy 1, Skyfire

The Stalker is 48", S7, AP4, Heavy 4, Skyfire and has a rule that lets it shoot at 2 targets at a reduced BS.

wtwlf123 wrote:Aren't they both AA tanks?

They are, and neither has Interceptor.

Can they be upgraded to have it?. A dedicated platform with no skyfire is essentially going to get owned the turn those flyers come in, might as well leave it at home at get something that can actually do some harm.

If the Hunter gets interceptor for a reasonable price, i would get one, no chance im fielding one with out it.

Why does every AA unit have to have interceptor? maybe the techmarines didn't figure that an AA tank neded to be firing on ground troops?

Because you dont need much to glance AV12 to death, and they got alpha strike on you, thats why.

Hooooooooold on for a second - is it true that a new Tac Marine will now cost 1 point more than a Necron Warrior despite having ATSKNF, 3+, better weapons, Combat Tactics, Sergeants, Doctrines etc.?

 BryllCream wrote:
There is nothing in that post that I do not like.

Looks to me like an absolute abomination.

So, since there's conflicting information, does Accept Any Challenge give (rerolls to hit in combat) and (rending in challenges) or (rerolls to hit and rending in challenges)? I would so love to have the rerolls back. Frankly, without it Crusader Squads would STILL be worse than Grey Hunters, especially since Righteous Zeal and Rage no longer seems to be around (which isn't all bad, mind you).

ClockworkZion wrote:

Q: Do you have the points cost for AA tanks?
A: Stalker = 70, Hunter = 75

EDIT: Both tanks are 12/12/10.

Yeah, not cheap enought, how much did the quadguns and the icaurus cost?, neither gets blown up and both can fire against ground targets. Dont expect to see many of these on the table, may be 1 Hunter but thats it.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Hooooooooold on for a second - is it true that a new Tac Marine will now cost 1 point more than a Necron Warrior despite having ATSKNF, 3+, better weapons, Combat Tactics, Sergeants, Doctrines etc.?

oh my gosh! the thought of a unit costing more because it has better options?

/sarcasm

if you want the rules, you gotta pay the tax...

It's an AA tank. It shouldn't have interceptor because then it could shoot at everything with normal BS. Which then makes it not so much dedicated AA but more just shoot at everything. That's what OTHER units are for i.e. Devastators, Centurians, and Predators.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Hooooooooold on for a second - is it true that a new Tac Marine will now cost 1 point more than a Necron Warrior despite having ATSKNF, 3+, better weapons, Combat Tactics, Sergeants, Doctrines etc.?

Necs get repair protocols and cheese against vehicles, marines dont.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Hooooooooold on for a second - is it true that a new Tac Marine will now cost 1 point more than a Necron Warrior despite having ATSKNF, 3+, better weapons, Combat Tactics, Sergeants, Doctrines etc.?

Yet they still get Re-animation protocols and glance vehicles on a 6, with a good transport.

It's still better then CSM's -1 point for nothing.

Being 1 point more than a Necron Warrior/CSM really makes a Marine a bargain, which is I think the point you missed.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Hooooooooold on for a second - is it true that a new Tac Marine will now cost 1 point more than a Necron Warrior despite having ATSKNF, 3+, better weapons, Combat Tactics, Sergeants, Doctrines etc.?

oh my gosh! the thought of a unit costing more because it has better options?

Didn't know ATSKNF, Combat Tactics, 3+ and Sergeants are options.

GW really sticks to the plan to make new stuff or re-releases badly balanced on purpose, eh.

 c0j1r0 wrote:
It's an AA tank. It shouldn't have interceptor because then it could shoot at everything with normal BS. Which then makes it not so much dedicated AA but more just shoot at everything. That's what OTHER units are for i.e. Devastators, Centurians, and Predators.

With out interceptor it can not do its job period, av12 gets glanced to death far too easy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Hooooooooold on for a second - is it true that a new Tac Marine will now cost 1 point more than a Necron Warrior despite having ATSKNF, 3+, better weapons, Combat Tactics, Sergeants, Doctrines etc.?

oh my gosh! the thought of a unit costing more because it has better options?

Didn't know ATSKNF, Combat Tactics, 3+ and Sergeants are options.

GW really sticks to the plan to make new stuff or re-releases badly balanced on purpose, eh.

Lol, yes they do, if you were impressed with that, they forgot to mention that now Ultramariness get twin linked free army wide as well.

xxvaderxx wrote:


Lol, yes they do, if you were impressed with that, they forgot to mention that now Ultramariness get twin linked free army wide as well.

feth you, GW.