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 d-usa wrote:

daisho wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
So Flakk Missiles for the Missile Launcher.

Is the only way to get them via Devastator Squads, or can Tactical Squad Missile Launchers get them as well?

I bet they will be available on both, would make no sense to not have them on tacticals (imho).

Well, Fluff wise they could argue that Devastators are more of the "anti vehicle/tank/flyer" squad and that specialization makes them better at taking out flyers than Tacticals".
In a codex writing mindset it would be a way to force you to make decisions when building lists and what to put in your Heavy slot.

I hope that Tacticals/Scouts/etc have access though.

DA have them on both so it's almost guaranteed that we will get them too.

Crazyterran wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
I will need to figure out a way to differentiate units from different codexes/chapters. I am thinking either casting a sort "holster for the base" and color it with the chapter color or a marker with the chapter symbol. Ideally i lean towards the holster, but its a bit more work. Im thinking Playing my wolves ultras with an allied detachment of white scars, which will essentially be a captain with a bike squad and an assault squad.


What other ideas do you guys have to differentiate your forces?.

Different company markings. I already paint my Bikes as 6th Company, for example.

So, if i Ally in Salamanders, and I decided to take combi-weapon Sternguard, all the models would be first company. (and probably scouts, who wouldn't have markings. or flame weapons... or meltas...)

It is not a bad idea, i thou i was thinking something more along the lines for models already painted and dumb proof.

MajorWesJanson wrote:Wasn't there a rumor that the rhino box would go away in favor of the razorback kit?

I believe that was just speculation, but it's not impossible. Even after they increased the price of the Razorback most people buy those over the standard Rhino anyways, so I don't really see an issue with them doing it.

And cue someone to tell me I'm wrong.

 Shadox wrote:

DA have them on both so it's almost guaranteed that we will get them too.

So Ultras will have twin-linked flakk missiles on Tac squads. Great.

ClockworkZion wrote:

MajorWesJanson wrote:Wasn't there a rumor that the rhino box would go away in favor of the razorback kit?

I believe that was just speculation, but it's not impossible. Even after they increased the price of the Razorback most people buy those over the standard Rhino anyways, so I don't really see an issue with them doing it.

And cue someone to tell me I'm wrong.

I agree with you. I need razorbacks for my army anyway and I would have them able to convert back and forth between Razor and Rhino. So just having a razorback kit wouldn't be an issue.

xxvaderxx wrote:
I will need to figure out a way to differentiate units from different codexes/chapters. I am thinking either casting a sort "holster for the base" and color it with the chapter color or a marker with the chapter symbol. Ideally i lean towards the holster, but its a bit more work. Im thinking Playing my wolves ultras with an allied detachment of white scars, which will essentially be a captain with a bike squad and an assault squad.


What other ideas do you guys have to differentiate your forces?.

Paint them in their Chapter colours. Wild idea, I know. Not a fan of FotM players.

xxvaderxx wrote:
I will need to figure out a way to differentiate units from different codexes/chapters. I am thinking either casting a sort "holster for the base" and color it with the chapter color or a marker with the chapter symbol. Ideally i lean towards the holster, but its a bit more work. Im thinking Playing my wolves ultras with an allied detachment of white scars, which will essentially be a captain with a bike squad and an assault squad.


What other ideas do you guys have to differentiate your forces?.

Paint the space wolves space wolf colors and use the space wolf book, and then paint your white scars white.

 Crimson wrote:
So Ultras will have twin-linked flakk missiles on Tac squads. Great.

I can't believe ultra tactics are really that good, I can imagine that those rerolls only work on bolters!?

So Space Marines now get 3 HQ, 3-8 troops and 4 fast attack, elite and heavy support?

Doesn't feel like how Allies were supposed to work but I guess it sells more space marines.

daisho wrote:

 prowla wrote:

Hehe, yeah. GW is all about "create your own awesome army with a cool theme and tons of background and history!" - then when you pick one of the most iconic CSM armies, the Thousand Sons, you're left with "oh sorry, this new codex really has nothing viable for your army - but here, buy three daemon engines and paint them blue!"

"Imho" the CSM codex already has a lot of options, do you really want a codex for every sub-force of CSM? Then everybody would whine "Why can't I take a Khorne Berserker squad with my Thousand Sons army?" - really, I would never ever trade that flexibility away for some additional new mediocre units.

Only problem that I see is that Mark of Nurgle is underpriced for what it does in 6E, of course every Troop has a Mark of Nurgle. Heldrake is just "lol", an AP3 flamer that wounds Marines on 2+ who can move 36" before shooting as 360" Torrent - it's obviously broken.

But there are other choices too, and I don't think they are bad ... they are just not that cost-effective as the others - a shame, I admit.
But e.g. the Forgefiend ... 2 Hades Autocannons, okay ... it's 175 points, but I think it's a fair price for having a Dreadnought with It Will not Die that shoots double the amount as a Grey Knight Psyfleman with Pinning - Hello?

Of course nobody takes it, because those points are reserved for the flying circus. *boring*

the flexibility to take crappy units with other crappy units? You can take one squad of mutilators, one squad of khorne zerkers, and one squad of thousand sons woooo. none of them are any good now or will be any good after C:SM gets all its shiny new whistles.

MoN isnt OP. It makes most troops cost 20-25% more and gives you a little bit more survivability. None of the other marks do diddly so it is the only choice people ever put on things.

Forgefiends are BS3, pysrifleman are BS4 twinlinked. So a psyrifleman gets 3.55 hits while a forgefined gets 4 hits on average. The defensive ablities pretty much equal each other and so basically GW gave CSM a unit equal to one of the best units in 5th edition in 6th when that unit had basically been invalidated. Do you see much GK psyrifleman spam anymore? no

 Kirasu wrote:
So Space Marines now get 3 HQ, 3-8 troops and 4 fast attack, elite and heavy support?

Doesn't feel like how Allies were supposed to work but I guess it sells more space marines.

Well, they can't reuse Chapter Tactics or Characters. So it's not that much different than allying in SW, BA, or DA..or to a similar extent BT.

Now if you could have something like 2 Tiguriuses(Tiguri? lol), that would be different.

It's pretty different from SW allying with BA due to the fact that they aren't 100% identical codices.. Yes chapter tactics will be different, but you still can use 4 thunderfire cannons :p

 Exergy wrote:

the flexibility to take crappy units with other crappy units? You can take one squad of mutilators, one squad of khorne zerkers, and one squad of thousand sons woooo.

They are not crap, they are just overpriced compared to other choices and/or codizes.

 Exergy wrote:

none of them are any good now or will be any good after C:SM gets all its shiny new whistles.

Sounds like whinery

 Exergy wrote:

MoN isnt OP. It makes most troops cost 20-25% more and gives you a little bit more survivability. None of the other marks do diddly so it is the only choice people ever put on things.

Which is a shame.

But having +1 defense on a d6 is not "a little bit" nor are e.g. un-insta-killable characters etc (hence why only a few characters have Eternal Warrior, because it's awesome)

 Exergy wrote:
Forgefiends are BS3, pysrifleman are BS4 twinlinked. So a psyrifleman gets 3.55 hits while a forgefined gets 4 hits on average. The defensive ablities pretty much equal each other and so basically GW gave CSM a unit equal to one of the best units in 5th edition in 6th when that unit had basically been invalidated. Do you see much GK psyrifleman spam anymore? no

ok, I oversaw the BS3. Psyflemen are still one of the onliest options against armour (besides the Henchmen spam) - yeah, there is that flying egg called Stormraven (not gonna buy this kit) and the Dreadknight (not gonna buy this kit)

/Edit:

But whatever, it's GWS ... they will not stop the power creep - so you can live with it, or not.

Think of it as a lesser form of double FOC Kirasu.

Besides, it's not like they get all those toys for free. More points dropped into a gimmick list, the less left over for other things.

And it could be a precursor to how they "fix" Nid allies.

ClockworkZion wrote:
Think of it as a lesser form of double FOC Kirasu.

Besides, it's not like they get all those toys for free. More points dropped into a gimmick list, the less left over for other things.

And it could be a precursor to how they "fix" Nid allies.

Might as well just get rid of allies if the fix for allies is allowing everyone to take themselves as allies! (Like Tau prior and probably black legion?)

 Kirasu wrote:
So Space Marines now get 3 HQ, 3-8 troops and 4 fast attack, elite and heavy support?

Doesn't feel like how Allies were supposed to work but I guess it sells more space marines.

Not when they're £25 a box!

 ph34r wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
I will need to figure out a way to differentiate units from different codexes/chapters. I am thinking either casting a sort "holster for the base" and color it with the chapter color or a marker with the chapter symbol. Ideally i lean towards the holster, but its a bit more work. Im thinking Playing my wolves ultras with an allied detachment of white scars, which will essentially be a captain with a bike squad and an assault squad.


What other ideas do you guys have to differentiate your forces?.

Paint the space wolves space wolf colors and use the space wolf book, and then paint your white scars white.

Yeah... no, will do that the second GW prints a codex for every edition, till then the color the power armor is painted its irrelevant to me, ill only play current edition dexes, that the whole reason i picked marines.

 Kirasu wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Think of it as a lesser form of double FOC Kirasu.

Besides, it's not like they get all those toys for free. More points dropped into a gimmick list, the less left over for other things.

And it could be a precursor to how they "fix" Nid allies.

Might as well just get rid of allies if the fix for allies is allowing everyone to take themselves as allies! (Like Tau prior and probably black legion?)

No. Seriously, just no.

Tyranids can't ally with any other codex. Allowing them to use those ally slots for extra options (at the cost of an extra HQ) is a completely fair concept.

With the Marines the allied slots allow you to bring in a second chapter who uses different traits since the books basically shuts down using most of the Special Characters and rules and restricts you to specific builds for your chapter tactics. And to do this they lose the ability to take other options, like Tau or Eldar who have things that can also benefit the Marines.

That is nothing like allowing every army to ally with themselves when they don't have have some kind of penalty working in there that makes the self-ally set-up worth taking. The rules aren't nearly as broken as people are claiming, and frankly these claims are of every codex needing whatever the Marines do is (in my opinion at least) stupid. We should be excited that the game is taking steps to make the books different and more varied in playstyle than just making everything in power armor a clone of itself.

From where I'm sitting at least, the game is doing nothing but getting better the more the books diverge from each other and I like it.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:
Think of it as a lesser form of double FOC Kirasu.

Besides, it's not like they get all those toys for free. More points dropped into a gimmick list, the less left over for other things.

And it could be a precursor to how they "fix" Nid allies.

Might as well just get rid of allies if the fix for allies is allowing everyone to take themselves as allies! (Like Tau prior and probably black legion?)

No. Seriously, just no.

Tyranids can't ally with any other codex. Allowing them to use those ally slots for extra options (at the cost of an extra HQ) is a completely fair concept.

With the Marines the allied slots allow you to bring in a second chapter who uses different traits since the books basically shuts down using most of the Special Characters and rules and restricts you to specific builds for your chapter tactics. And to do this they lose the ability to take other options, like Tau or Eldar who have things that can also benefit the Marines.

That is nothing like allowing every army to ally with themselves when they don't have have some kind of penalty working in there that makes the self-ally set-up worth taking. The rules aren't nearly as broken as people are claiming, and frankly these claims are of every codex needing whatever the Marines do is (in my opinion at least) stupid. We should be excited that the game is taking steps to make the books different and more varied in playstyle than just making everything in power armor a clone of itself.

From where I'm sitting at least, the game is doing nothing but getting better the more the books diverge from each other and I like it.

I agree with this especially considering that the first few codex books seemed to be taming things down and then Tau hit. Then Eldar. The power curve jumped back up a bit. They are handing out AP2 like candy.

I still don't see anything here that is making marines ridiculous. I see the power curve between the standard marines and the other armies closing a decent bit with the changes.

spamthulhu wrote:

I still don't see anything here that is making marines ridiculous. I see the power curve between the standard marines and the other armies closing a decent bit with the changes.

Except Bangles, who are now very much the fat, sweaty, wheezing kid trying to keep up with the others on a hike.

Sonuvabitch. Seeing the new Sterns, new Vans, new tanks and the chappies...I want. Maybe a Libby too. We'll see. No Centurians. Lol. But I'm not reopening that can of worms. I just don't want em.

xxvaderxx wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
I will need to figure out a way to differentiate units from different codexes/chapters. I am thinking either casting a sort "holster for the base" and color it with the chapter color or a marker with the chapter symbol. Ideally i lean towards the holster, but its a bit more work. Im thinking Playing my wolves ultras with an allied detachment of white scars, which will essentially be a captain with a bike squad and an assault squad.


What other ideas do you guys have to differentiate your forces?.

Different company markings. I already paint my Bikes as 6th Company, for example.

So, if i Ally in Salamanders, and I decided to take combi-weapon Sternguard, all the models would be first company. (and probably scouts, who wouldn't have markings. or flame weapons... or meltas...)

It is not a bad idea, i thou i was thinking something more along the lines for models already painted and dumb proof.

I really like your idea of casting holsters for the bases, but the problem with that is you end up making the base too big. You could try and do some sort of colored disk underneath the base like the Sedition Wars stuff, which would be pretty slick, but probably way too dang much work.

Any idea if there's a nice glossy paint you could paint the edges of your bases with, then use some dry erase or water soluble pens to color them in? I'm torn on the idea of colored base rings since while it's a great way to mark units, it also can be a bit of an eye-sore, but if you could set it up so that you could change the colors for each game it might not be a bad idea. Plus you could always color them in to match the table surface if you were feeling like making things look all pretty and shiny.

PS. I love this new mechanical keyboard. Impossible to type quietly when my wife is asleep, but the clicka-clicka is a damn satisfying sound when I'm typing away at something.

xruslanx wrote:
tactical squads are bad as they are though. Too expensive, no survivability and lacklustre firepower. Now we know that two of these have been addressed, or even all three if you're an iron hands player.

Yep. Might be better of him to keep to his pokemon.

xxvaderxx wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

xxvaderxx wrote:
I will need to figure out a way to differentiate units from different codexes/chapters. I am thinking either casting a sort "holster for the base" and color it with the chapter color or a marker with the chapter symbol. Ideally i lean towards the holster, but its a bit more work. Im thinking Playing my wolves ultras with an allied detachment of white scars, which will essentially be a captain with a bike squad and an assault squad.


What other ideas do you guys have to differentiate your forces?.

Paint the space wolves space wolf colors and use the space wolf book, and then paint your white scars white.

Yeah... no, will do that the second GW prints a codex for every edition, till then the color the power armor is painted its irrelevant to me, ill only play current edition dexes, that the whole reason i picked marines.

So what have you been doing for the last year, since you ONLY play with current edition dexes and the only Space Marine codex out is Dark Angels? Playing Space Wolves as Dark Angels is wrong on so many levels....

Personally, I'm not overly impressed with what I'm seeing for the new codex so far (granted, its all rumors, and I'm sure the devil will be in the details). I have to wonder if the 5th edition SW codex won't be better than the upcoming C:SM codex.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

Personally, I'm not overly impressed with what I'm seeing for the new codex so far (granted, its all rumors, and I'm sure the devil will be in the details). I have to wonder if the 5th edition SW codex won't be better than the upcoming C:SM codex.

Not been playing for a while, thou principle still stands, i will only consider the colors painted on a model as an artistic choice and nothing else, until such a time all codexes have current edition versions. Till then, a marine is a marine and as long as you respect WYSIWYG, the colors are an anecdotal choice to me, fluff related an nothing else.

 Lansirill wrote:

I really like your idea of casting holsters for the bases, but the problem with that is you end up making the base too big.

I dont really think that is a problem, it would increase the diameter about 2 millimiters tops and they would be visual aids only. The other option is to magnetize another base under the hollow GW base and collor those, same size, just a little bit taller.

I'm trying to think what cheese is there to be had with Land Speeder Storm. I'm of course talking about spamming 5-man scouts and taking LSS as their DT.

Equipping them with assault cannon and outflanking them gives you 24 str6 rending shots delivered to rear armor or units behind cover. It would only be BS3 though, maybe rerolling 1's.

Of course you could take them as Salamander and give them TL Heavy Flamer or give them MM and have Vulkan TL them.

Maybe keep the scouts embarked as you outflank them have the scouts fire their bolters. That would give you 60 str4 rapid fire shots on top of what ever else LSS is firing.


This setup would cost about 6 x 125 points if the rumours are true and LSS keeps its points cost.

Polecat wrote:
I'm trying to think what cheese is there to be had with Land Speeder Storm. I'm of course talking about spamming 5-man scouts and taking LSS as their DT.

Equipping them with assault cannon and outflanking them gives you 24 str6 rending shots delivered to rear armor or units behind cover. It would only be BS3 though, maybe rerolling 1's.

Of course you could take them as Salamander and give them TL Heavy Flamer or give them MM and have Vulkan TL them.

Maybe keep the scouts embarked as you outflank them have the scouts fire their bolters. That would give you 60 str4 rapid fire shots on top of what ever else LSS is firing.


This setup would cost about 6 x 125 points if the rumours are true and LSS keeps its points cost.

Space Marine version of DE Venom Spam. Sounds nasty: high risk, high reward.

My one big hope for this release is that you can take Ultramarines characters in other Chapters. My Marines are Iron Hands successors in models (and fluff), but I decided they were more Codex-compliant than their parent Chapter and used Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Space Wolves for them in 5th edition.

As a result, I have converted models for Tigurius, Cassius, Sicarius, and Telion and have parts on the way for Marneus Calgar too. If it comes down to a choice between Iron Hands Chapter Tactics and Ultramarines characters, I'm not sure which one I will pick-- so I'm hoping I'll be able to have both!

 Kingsley wrote:
My one big hope for this release is that you can take Ultramarines characters in other Chapters. My Marines are Iron Hands successors in models (and fluff), but I decided they were more Codex-compliant than their parent Chapter and used Codex: Space Marines instead of Codex: Space Wolves for them in 5th edition.

As a result, I have converted models for Tigurius, Cassius, Sicarius, and Telion and have parts on the way for Marneus Calgar too. If it comes down to a choice between Iron Hands Chapter Tactics and Ultramarines characters, I'm not sure which one I will pick-- so I'm hoping I'll be able to have both!

Sounds like you can't. It seems that Special Characters will be locked into like Doctrine/Chapter only. But, it looks like you can ally two different Chapter together. Guess we'll have to wait and see for sure.

 Pyriel- wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
tactical squads are bad as they are though. Too expensive, no survivability and lacklustre firepower. Now we know that two of these have been addressed, or even all three if you're an iron hands player.

Yep. Might be better of him to keep to his pokemon.

i dont understand what you mean, could you elaborate?