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Hello Dakka. It's been a couple years.

Can anyone point me to a useful guide on 6th edition? What changed? What it means? How to play? I haven't picked up a model in two years, and am rusty in general but wouldn't mind a starting point.

Here's a good start:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440162a&prodId=prod1620012a

Well well look who it is
40k Tactics biggest heavy weight has returned to his people.

A quick list of some changes:
Can only assault out of open-topped or assault vehicles (So raiders and the like).
Charge distance is randomised now which makes asssault less - reliable than in days past
Overwatch, essentially BS1 shooting from your charge target.
Night Fighting is quite prominent now.
Flyers are in.
Hull Points means it is much easier to kill vehicles with glances.
Allies are in (and poorly executed like most changes in typical GW style).

Overall changes:
Meta has moved from mechanised armies (esp. MEQ armies). To a combination of foothorde + big griblies or units with high damage to cost ratio (think things like crisis suits and similar).

Cover is more ubiquitous but not as effective as before with most cover (primarily intervening units) going from 4+ to 5+.

Most people are moving away from MEQ armies at the moment as people are having a hard time making them compete.

Most competitive armies in terms of overall strength (no order):
Imperial Guard
Necrons
Tau Empire
Chaos Space Marines (only if they take a Heldrake)

Forgeworld is (finally imo) getting more and more readily accepted, especially by TOs.

I can't really say more as I don't partake in the NA tournament scene, but they are the biggest and most prominent changes I can think of off the top of my head.

Happy hunting DoP.

 Krellnus wrote:

Most competitive armies in terms of overall strength (no order):
Imperial Guard
Necrons
Tau Empire
Chaos Space Marines (only if they take a Heldrake)

I'd throw Eldar in there for sure. Maybe Daemons as well. They are a much better codex than Chaos Space Marines. One unit doesn't make them highly competitive imo.

How I'd rank the armies currently. No particular order within tiers.

Tier 1
Tau
Necrons
Eldar
Imperial Guard

Tier 2
Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Daemons
Dark Angels
Grey Knights

Tier 3
Tyranids (maybe tier 2?)
Space Marines
Space Wolves
Orks
Dark Eldar

Tier 4
Sisters Of Battle
Black Templars
Blood Angels

But that's just my opinion.

Everything else has pretty much been covered. You can throw grenades now but only one guy per squad. Also no assaulting from reserves. Power weapons underwent large changes. There are now different types (swords, axes and mauls). Oh and a whole host of new special rules.

But yeah rulebook is the bets place to find out this.

Amerikon wrote:Here's a good start:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440162a&prodId=prod1620012a

Have an exalt. I found it hilarious.

The game also favors the ability to score and kill scoring units now more than ever. 5/6 missions revolve around scoring units, and units in transports now are not scoring.

Also, Psykers are much more powerful. Abilities are greatly increased, but random, as shown by various tables that are rolled on before deployment. Also, most forms of Psychic defense are being nerfed as they get updated.

Shooting is king! Your army needs to either be able to 1. Shoot a lot or 2. be able to avoid being shot. This favors flyers (who are hit on 6s) Tau who shoot a lot, Flying Monsterous Creatures (MCs who are shot at like fliers) and mass weight of fire armies like ravenwing. Basically, the only viable assault units are really fast, or extremely durable.

Fortifications are basically buying bunkers/defense lines, which add cheap and good cover at the cost of having to stay in that one place.

 Dashofpepper wrote:
Hello Dakka. It's been a couple years.

Can anyone point me to a useful guide on 6th edition? What changed? What it means? How to play? I haven't picked up a model in two years, and am rusty in general but wouldn't mind a starting point.

The two newest codices, Tau and Eldar, are very strong and are general meta-upsetters. New Space marines are rumored out next month as well.

In general, assault armies seem to have gotten the shaft, with overwatch (when you charge something they get a free BS1 shot at you, flamers get +D3 hits), and the fact that random charge distance (2d6 for charge distance instead of the previous straight 6") means you can potentially run like a mofo or trip and die like a noob. However, that does not mean assault armies are dead, they simply have to be more careful. It does seem like shooting got a boost, but that is only because assault got slightly worse.

Also, new random psychic powers, warlord traits, glancing... pick up a rulebook (not the full one unless you need the fluff), I'm sure someone is selling the small Dark Vengeance BRB for cheapsies on eBay. I like the new edition, I'm not a fan on the new randomness, but it does add a bit of fun (and anger when you fail something).

 redkeyboard wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:

Most competitive armies in terms of overall strength (no order):
Imperial Guard
Necrons
Tau Empire
Chaos Space Marines (only if they take a Heldrake)

I'd throw Eldar in there for sure. Maybe Daemons as well. They are a much better codex than Chaos Space Marines. One unit doesn't make them highly competitive imo.

How I'd rank the armies currently. No particular order within tiers.

Tier 1
Tau
Necrons
Eldar
Imperial Guard

Tier 2
Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Daemons
Dark Angels
Grey Knights

Tier 3
Tyranids (maybe tier 2?)
Space Marines
Space Wolves
Orks
Dark Eldar

Tier 4
Sisters Of Battle
Black Templars
Blood Angels

But that's just my opinion.

Everything else has pretty much been covered. You can throw grenades now but only one guy per squad. Also no assaulting from reserves. Power weapons underwent large changes. There are now different types (swords, axes and mauls). Oh and a whole host of new special rules.

But yeah rulebook is the bets place to find out this.

Having only limited at best experience with both Eldar and Daemons I did not feel I should comment, but overall I tend to agree with your tier rankings.

I'd concur with the above. I'd argue that Tyranids might be Tier 2 (I will note however that this is with a very limited list that is very predictable). Daemons are hard to rank because of their randomness and being a rather unpopular army. They can actually make the assault work though which gives them some credit. They might deserve to be tier 1 or not. I'm still struggling on deciding that.

 StarTrotter wrote:
I'd concur with the above. I'd argue that Tyranids might be Tier 2 (I will note however that this is with a very limited list that is very predictable). Daemons are hard to rank because of their randomness and being a rather unpopular army. They can actually make the assault work though which gives them some credit. They might deserve to be tier 1 or not. I'm still struggling on deciding that.

Yeah the randomness of Daemons are why I put them tier 2 rather than one. But I'm getting slightly off topic now. Everything seems to have been covered now though so. There's nothing left for me to add.

Amerikon wrote:
Here's a good start:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440162a&prodId=prod1620012a

...

Ha

Holy Crap! Welcome back Dash!

To add to what has already been said:

Random assault distance for charging regardless of terrain
Wound allocation pulling from the closest to the firer
Random Psychic Powers
A whole bunch of stuff

You'll really want to pick up a 6th BRB, but there are still some topics covering the changes in the General Discussion if you go back a bit.

6th Edition Trends:

Tends to favor shooting, with move and shoot, shaken/stunned and shoot, move and still rapid-fire 24", move with heavy weapons and still shoot and Overwatch against assault.

Psychic powers. Psychic powers are force-multipliers and the trend for competitive builds currently is force-multipliers. Some of the best new armies are psychic-heavy. Tau is the only exception, though they can take markerlights and a number of force-multiplying wargear to make them incredibly effective. They can also take psychic eldar as allies.

Allies. Allies and combos are what make some armies so strong. Allies fill in "gaps" for particular army weaknesses. They are also a way to bring in some force-multipliers into the army.

Flyers. Tough to shoot down. Cannot be assaulted (in most cases). One of the most obvious changes in 6th.

Fortifications. While not game-breaking, they add another dimension to the game. A cheap way to bring in your own terrain and for anti-aircraft firepower.

Going out-of-style:

Mech. There are so many disadvantages to mech armies nowadays that people are starting to move away from them. The new meta is foot-lists, though MSU mech can still work. They just aren't the top-tier armies that they used to be in 5th.

 jy2 wrote:
6th Edition Trends:


Going out-of-style:

Mech. There are so many disadvantages to mech armies nowadays that people are starting to move away from them. The new meta is foot-lists, though MSU mech can still work. They just aren't the top-tier armies that they used to be in 5th.

Except for the Necrons with their flyers and barges, DE which still run mostly mech and Eldar wave serpents... Don't think mech is dead so much as SM mech seems dead.

Dark Eldar is mostly mech because Dark Eldar must be mostly mech. For all the flak we get for our paper thin airplanes we use them because they are tougher than our infantry on foot. Dark Eldar have no avatar to grant us fearless, no psykers to boost us, and we lack the toughness and/or numbers that other armies have.

Back on topic:

6th Edition is shooting based through and through. Assault got a number of nerfs while shooting received a multitude of buffs (one that I have not in this thread being that shooting always takes models from the front). Massed mech is currently not extremely popular, but from what I have seen is still viable. Marines are also finally no longer at the top. Grey Knights have been knocked down a few pegs, C:SM and Space Wolves are limping along, and Blood Angels and Black Templars are not doing so hot.

Tau and Eldar have also, as stated, served as major upstarts. Eldar shuriken weaponry makes mincemeat of marines while Tau are capable of putting down a punishing fusillade of firepower. Out of these two books the riptide and the wave-serpent have been the biggest winners. Riptides are nigh-impossible to kill by conventional means and wave-serpent's special fields have gained a tremendous boost.

Marcus Scipio wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
6th Edition Trends:


Going out-of-style:

Mech. There are so many disadvantages to mech armies nowadays that people are starting to move away from them. The new meta is foot-lists, though MSU mech can still work. They just aren't the top-tier armies that they used to be in 5th.

Except for the Necrons with their flyers and barges, DE which still run mostly mech and Eldar wave serpents... Don't think mech is dead so much as SM mech seems dead.

Never said that mech is dead. Mech is still viable. However, they aren't as good as they used to be and hence, the meta has shifted somewhat away from pure mech.

I don't consider necrons as mech since what they are actually embarked on are flyers.

As for wave serpents, they are somewhat of an exception but they are still very new. Mechdar is probably the only non-flyer mech army that is top-tier, however, they are the exception rather than the norm.

I would rank Eldar over CSM on the competitive list. CSM have literally one, one single gimmick making them highly competitive- Heldrakes. If you can neutralize that advantage, either by outright killing them or ignoring them (as our good buddy Ailerios has shown), the rest of what Chaos brings to the table is easily dealt with.

Battle-focus and bladestorm make Eldar, on the other, a complete nightmare for many armies, regardless of what build the Eldar player uses.

I would rank Eldar/Tau -> Necrons -> IG -> everything else -> Black Templars/SoB as far as competitive tiers.

Necrons probably deserve a spot on the first place, but, meh. lol

Going out-of-style:

Mech. There are so many disadvantages to mech armies nowadays that people are starting to move away from them. The new meta is foot-lists, though MSU mech can still work. They just aren't the top-tier armies that they used to be in 5th.

Not sure about this. Serpent spam and Venom spam with scoring units inside are working pretty well these days.

Welcome back Dash. Big things to note.

Flyers and flying MC are only hit on a 6 unless the unit has skyfire, flyers have skyfire.

Problem flyers are necron night scythes, vendettas, and helldrakes (I call them hellturkeys)

Flying MC and the hellturkey can do vector strikes in the movement phase, a few s7 ap3 hits with no cover saves. The hell turkey also has a s7 ap3 hellhound flamer which is why marine players bitch about it so much.

Divination is the most popular power. psychic powers have a d6 random generation like whfb with a primary zero power that can be swapped for a roll. The primary divination power is prescience=rerolls to hit for buffed unit.

There is no meta. Don't believe any of this tier crap. 2/3 of the armies in the game are top tier material, and about 1/3 are bottom. Your necrons and de are in great shape, but playing orcs is tough.

dlord with mss in a full 6 wraith *2 + 3 annihilation barges+ troops in night scythes=the most common cookie cutter top tier list.

Fearless units can't go to ground.
going to ground behind an aegis wall or in area terrain is +2 to cover.

aegis wall is 50 points base 4+ cover

Regroup threshold is under 25% instead of 50%
No 6" rule preventing regroup it's just gone.
Vehicles and mc only need 25% obscured for cover.
FNP works against ap1 and ap2 but is now a 5+

eldar are nasty and are great allies for de.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
all scimmers, jet bikes, and bikes have a 5+ cover called jink.

wave serpents have a 4+ with holo fields.

the serpent shield now converts a pen to a glance on a 2+

Vehicles only explode on a 6+, but +1 for open top and or ap2, and +2 for ap1, and it's always s4 regardless of open top.

moving vehicles are always hit on a 3+ in cc except flyers can't be hit at all in cc.

Challenges lets Sergeants, Upgrade Characters, Independent Characters and a few other models designated as Characters can issue and accept Challenges, potentially tarpitting melee monsters.

Also, Wraiths are now awesome and used in a similar manner to what you did with them in the old Necrons Codex.

Hey there Dash. Its been a while! Welcome back to the hobby. 6th edition is a lot different than 5th edition.

Major Releases
GW has been doing an amazing job of cranking out a new codex every 3 months. Since 6th has dropped the following codex's have been released.
- CSM
- DA
- CD
- Tau
- Eldar
And C:SM is due out later this month according to the rumors!
This means that the meta is changing dramatically. Remember when GK took the cake in 5th edition, and the entire game was "play GK or go home".
Now when you see a new hotness, it fades fairly quickly. 6 months ago, the helldrake was king. Now its falling to the wayside, and Tau/Eldar are rising.
It makes for a very dynamic game thats a lot more fun.


RPS Builds
40k has always had some RPS builds. Fielding 180 orks was a counter to armies with lots of melta. Most armies in 5th were vehicle spam armies.
6th edition has opened the lid on army types. Footslog builds are more common. Flyer builds are more common. Vehicle spam builds are more common.
This has made it nearly impossible to builds an "All comers" army. Instead you have to maximize your good matchups and minimize your poor matchups.
Some armies are generally considered 'better' because they can handle more army types.


Allies
Allies have changed the game dramatically. The combinations that are open have increased dramatically.
Now you can have an eldar farseer buffing your DE units! You can have a Tau etherial join a squad of guardians.
Instead of having just 11 armies, you now have 11 armies each with multiple ally possibilities. It makes the game a lot more dynamic.
Furthermore, when a new codex drops, you can ask "Hey, if I can ally with them, would it help if I bought a few models to ally in"


Your Army Will Need a Makeover
A lot of the builds that worked in 5th edition don't work in 6th. Part of it is for the reasons mentinoed above -- you can't score in a vehicle any more.
This means that if you pick up your 5th edition army it will have some problems in 6th. Don't expect to just walk over everything.


Powers
Psychic powers are now generated off a dice roll. Your no longer just picking the spell you think is good.
This means its much harder to hinge your army strategy on a specific power -- like guide.
On the plus side, there are a lot more combos that you can use.


If you have more questions, just ask.

Orks on their own are tough to play, but they mix very well with necrons.

The only bad news about your crons is they are now powerful and popular so you no longer get to play a rarely seen army with crons unless maybe you mix immotekh with green tide and start zapping your own boys.

Huzzah!

Dash has returned!

Nice to see Dash back.

Premeasuring is also a big thing. It allows to stay out of range when it matters.

Welcome back Dash, I always enjoyed reading your threads - hope to see more from you in the future, even if I very rarely play the game I still get a lot out of what you have to say

In an old wisemans voice,

"Buy the rule book. Play some games. Learn from your mistakes. There are no shortcuts in life Dashhopper."

 Dashofpepper wrote:
Hello Dakka. It's been a couple years.

Can anyone point me to a useful guide on 6th edition? What changed? What it means? How to play? I haven't picked up a model in two years, and am rusty in general but wouldn't mind a starting point.

Welcome back! Are you still playing Dark Eldar? If so these reports might be helpful, I started writing them at the beginning of 6th, basically me learning 6th and pointing out small changes and useful tricks (the later reports are definitely more interesting, but they don't cover the rules as much). One of them even got a whole YTTH blog post dedicated to it called: "Protip: Don’t play noobs and you’ll figure out why your army sucks MUCH faster" (the pinnacle of my report writing career).

Dark Eldar are definitely stronger in 6th than they were in 5th, which is nice, and still a ball to play. There's a nice guide covering all the changes to DE in 6th here (not meant to be the be all end all but it gives you a good overview).

 Dashofpepper wrote:
Part Two: No!!! Your Reaver Jetbikes are NOT made out of win.

Reaver Jetbikes are the most common discussion point that I see. This is usually in the form of “I <3 my Reaver Jetbikes, and they’re an integral part of my list,” but too often are unfortunately suggested to hapless advice seekers as a good addition to their list.

Just a heads up reavers have become one of the best units in the Dark Eldar codex.

Hope that helps.

 Mushkilla wrote:


Dark Eldar are definitely stronger in 6th than they were in 5th, which is nice, and still a ball to play. There's a nice guide covering all the changes to DE in 6th here (not meant to be the be all end all but it gives you a good overview).

Really? Because most would disagree as the transports became even easier to kill and witht he reduced amount of mech the dark lances kinda lost some value.

 redkeyboard wrote:
Really? Because most would disagree as the transports became even easier to kill and witht he reduced amount of mech the dark lances kinda lost some value.

Who do you mean by "most would disagree"?

Our transports are actually tougher as glances no longer roll on the damage table. So there is no chance of a glancing hit making you explode, and they only wreck you if you're out of hull points, even then it's a "soft wreck". In 5th our transports could die to a single glance, they would most definitely die to three glances (because of open topped adding +1), so the hull point system has made them more survivable not less. Not to mention all our vehicles now get a free "jink" save so we don't need to splash out on flicker fields any more. On the flip side the addition to hull points system has really helped our mediocre AT as even if we roll badly on the damage table the vehicle will still get destroyed eventually (no more lucky rhino surviving a disproportionate amount of lance fire, because of bad damage rolls).

Dark lances were never good against mech, they are a mediocre AT weapon at best, that really struggled against the mechanised armies of 5th (especially AV11-12 spam). The shift to infantry is great for dark eldar as anti infantry is what we do best and mech is what we had trouble dealing with.

Like I said Dark Eldar are stronger in 6th than they were in 5th.

 Mushkilla wrote:
Like I said Dark Eldar are stronger in 6th than they were in 5th.

In general, this is true. However, 6th edition also made half of the units in the DE codex (next to) useless.

 Mandor wrote:
6th edition also made half of the units in the DE codex (next to) useless.

What units got worse? I'd like a list if that's ok, that way I can answer you in more detail.