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Where are you posting that on FB?

Where are you posting that on FB?

As usual on the LEXICANUM Facebook presence. From there other people share it to groups and friends.

And I may have reposted to Twitter.....
Interestingly, the @resinforgestore twitter account is still up, but it's moved to 'tweets protected' in the last few days.

Looks like he's moved from Facebook PM's to Twitter DM's. Interesting.

What's a Twitter DM?

Direct message between two users.

The upside to DM's is that they're limited in characters just like a tweet. Very annoying to send messages to people especially business messages.

If he has moved to Twitter DMs, he's not doing much. He's only following 19 with 10 followers - so that's ten he can DM. Bit of a climb down from the thousands on FB...

 Art Steventon wrote:
If he has moved to Twitter DMs, he's not doing much. He's only following 19 with 10 followers - so that's ten he can DM. Bit of a climb down from the thousands on FB...

That's assuming its facebook thousands. He had only mentioned selling 4, even if he hadn't, seems more likely he would focus his efforts on select few for the money. Someone explained it better before with how the project "updates" would only go up at weirdly specific times for the target peoples benefit.

I seem to remember that his twitter acc tweets were aleady protected since a while. But I don't know if we are talking about the same twitter account actually.

If some idiot "buys" a "Titan" from "Resin Forge" or "Black Crusade Studios" after the amount of warnings given, then DakkaDakka users legitimately can blame the victim.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
If some idiot "buys" a "Titan" from "Resin Forge" or "Black Crusade Studios" after the amount of warnings given, then DakkaDakka users legitimately can blame the victim.

Alternatively, we blame DM because the victim may still have not seen all these warnings? Not everyone gravitates towards the internet 24/7 looking for these rumors and lurks in the communities?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
If some idiot "buys" a "Titan" from "Resin Forge" or "Black Crusade Studios" after the amount of warnings given, then DakkaDakka users legitimately can blame the victim.

I'd agree with that statement if it was applied to anyone from DakkaDakka making that purchase. Sadly though the WWW is far too vast for our warnings to reach it all.
No, blame has to go with Daniel entirely, IMHO.

Yup. Let's not play blame the victim here. It would be foolish on our part to believe the community was universally aware of this. There will always be someone who hasn't heard. Even if we have reached a majority one would hope.

As always, only one person is responsible, Daniel Mandelbaum.

(not mentioning that most other forums deleted all warnings about Mandelbonder)

aaand I'm blocked on Twitter. shame there's a growing anti - DM presence there through the #warmonger tag.

So, any more news from the Frontlines of the Mandeldrama?

Nope, just that he is active via Facebook PMs and on twitter. Completely avoiding being accountable, lying about who he is and what he is selling... the usual...

I'm wondering how much business he has been able to do through DM. Unfortunately I don't know anyone who is still contacting him.

If Mandelbaum is only selling via what in effect are private messages, I doubt we will hear anything about his activities until someone who got stiffed joins DakkaDakka and tells their story.

I've gotta ask, how is it this guy isn't a-in jail or [MOD EDIT - Don't make 'jokes' like this. Alpharius] - How many times does this donkey-cave have to contribute to the death of the hobby before someone does something to stop him?

Note: I don't know if anyone's taken legal action against the guy and from the pages I've read here and other DM posts, this guy is pretty slippery.

If Mandelbaum is only selling via what in effect are private messages, I doubt we will hear anything about his activities until someone who got stiffed joins DakkaDakka and tells their story.

1) the amount of business (and exposure) you can conduct (achieve) via PM is in any case much lower than that a "webshop" or "public" page.

2.) all PMs are archived and thus will provide nice proof

3.) everybody who spends a big amount of cash without a basic research is kind of unsuitable to visit the internet to start with.

 Frankenberry wrote:
I've gotta ask, how is it this guy isn't a-in jail or [MOD EDIT - Don't make 'jokes' like this. Alpharius]? How many times does this donkey-cave have to contribute to the death of the hobby before someone does something to stop him?

Note: I don't know if anyone's taken legal action against the guy and from the pages I've read here and other DM posts, this guy is pretty slippery.

The basics are this:
Daniel has scammed lots of people for 'small amounts' of money. 200 from 1 person, 150 from someone else, those sorts of things. Potatoes too small for a local police department to really do anything about it. There becomes a lot of time, hassle, and personal money just to put this guy's nuts to the fire. Until he scams the wrong person for the right amount of money the best we can do is simply alert people to his actions and keep watch.

Where's the Karma at?

Seriously, this guys Karmic retribution levels must be OVER 9000! overflowing. Hopefully it arrives soon.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Frankenberry wrote:
I've gotta ask, how is it this guy isn't a-in jail or [MOD EDIT - Don't make 'jokes' like this. Alpharius]? How many times does this donkey-cave have to contribute to the death of the hobby before someone does something to stop him?

Note: I don't know if anyone's taken legal action against the guy and from the pages I've read here and other DM posts, this guy is pretty slippery.

The basics are this:
Daniel has scammed lots of people for 'small amounts' of money. 200 from 1 person, 150 from someone else, those sorts of things. Potatoes too small for a local police department to really do anything about it. There becomes a lot of time, hassle, and personal money just to put this guy's nuts to the fire. Until he scams the wrong person for the right amount of money the best we can do is simply alert people to his actions and keep watch.

In addition to this the market itself is very niche to the point where the police just don't have any general attention for it. Miniatures and wargames are a popular, but still niche hobby market and for the most part its fairly above board and what crimes do take place are smaller scale. So most police forces just don't have much awareness nor need to clamp down on the crimes in this market.

It's just not big enough crime nor the right kind to get enough attention.

To make matters more complicated the market itself is spread out vastly through different countries which makes any legal action a lot harder to organise and get into effect. Even just basic coordination of the various groups is no small feat and when coupled with the potential personal legal costs in time and money most people just don't consider the lost money worth enough to take that plunge.

It's a sad state of affairs - reporting it to the community and generally keeping a sensible watch on the market and improving awareness of suspect and proven scam groups/individuals is about all that can be done at this point in time.

 Overread wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Frankenberry wrote:
I've gotta ask, how is it this guy isn't a-in jail or [MOD EDIT - Don't make 'jokes' like this. Alpharius]? How many times does this donkey-cave have to contribute to the death of the hobby before someone does something to stop him?

Note: I don't know if anyone's taken legal action against the guy and from the pages I've read here and other DM posts, this guy is pretty slippery.

The basics are this:
Daniel has scammed lots of people for 'small amounts' of money. 200 from 1 person, 150 from someone else, those sorts of things. Potatoes too small for a local police department to really do anything about it. There becomes a lot of time, hassle, and personal money just to put this guy's nuts to the fire. Until he scams the wrong person for the right amount of money the best we can do is simply alert people to his actions and keep watch.

In addition to this the market itself is very niche to the point where the police just don't have any general attention for it. Miniatures and wargames are a popular, but still niche hobby market and for the most part its fairly above board and what crimes do take place are smaller scale. So most police forces just don't have much awareness nor need to clamp down on the crimes in this market.

It's just not big enough crime nor the right kind to get enough attention.

To make matters more complicated the market itself is spread out vastly through different countries which makes any legal action a lot harder to organise and get into effect. Even just basic coordination of the various groups is no small feat and when coupled with the potential personal legal costs in time and money most people just don't consider the lost money worth enough to take that plunge.

It's a sad state of affairs - reporting it to the community and generally keeping a sensible watch on the market and improving awareness of suspect and proven scam groups/individuals is about all that can be done at this point in time.

I'll be honest, i don't buy the niche market thing beinr repeated over and over again as an excuse for a lack of police involvement. I've seen tickets handed out and kids arrested for the same kind of trash at school. Narcotics and prostitution are also niche markets, and the police are all over that, and the cross-border coooperation that goes on there is pretty strong. It just comes down to social stigma and social impact. At the end of the day, what really stops anything from happening here is the fact that it's all toys, that everyone insists on under-valuing the moment the store relinquishes ownership to buyer (so, really, yelling at the police that he stole $200 worth of stuff when you really valued it at $60 or less in the trade and for the sake of not having to pay tax when shipping the item or lord-knows-what...) The police are really only going to see the $60 claim. You'd have a better chance pursuing this on a basis of a scam to steal personally identifying information (credit cards, addresses, names..... blah) but then that's probably even weaker than trying to just hunt him down and harpoon him for theft. Also possible you could try drowning him in a class-action law-suit. honestly, i think that's been mentioned too, and that won't fly either. If the community is that desparate to catch him, well, somebody is going to have to be willing to put their stuff up as bait, which, probably won't happen, and likely won't result in anything either.

But then to be honest, this is also pretty much what any professional college will do. Take complaints from the community, and generally investigate itself internally to make sure everyone is nice and proper, and there's always the hacks that manage to feed off the periphery while the business/industry tries to do its best to keep clean... business as usual....

People could always file civil suits against him. Each individual person file an individual civil suit. In small claims court, the suit would only cost about $150, and that amount would be added to the amount of the judgment.

It would require the person who wants to sue to travel to DM's area for the court hearing, because typically small claims cases are heard in the county where the defendant lives. That's probably the biggest obstacle, but I think the travel expense or the cost of hiring an attorney to represent you can be added to the costs of the suit, too.

Collection would be the hardest part, but once you have a judgment, if you're feeling aggressive, you can make a person's life pretty difficult. You can file liens that appear on the person's credit report and public records, so if they ever try to purchase a home before clearing the lien, it will cause them problems. You can periodically file for interrogatories with the courts that force the defendant to reveal all of their assets, including bank account information and any regular job they hold, under the penalty of perjury. If you have bank account or job information, you can file garnishments. My favorite thing is filing a Writ of Fieri Facias. This pretty much places a lien on any property the defendant holds. With it, you can go with the FiFa sheriff to the person's residence (or workplace if self employed) and just start taking any non-essential household items (down to the cash in the defendant's pockets) to hold for auction to try to defray your costs. Actioning on a FiFa lien is pretty much a pain in the ass, and it's expensive because the goods have to be held for at least 30 days to be advertised for the auction, and the plaintiff has to pay for the storage, but those expenses are also added to the amount the defendant owes.

So, if someone, or some group of people, decided they wanted to take action in small claims, they could make DM's life pretty difficult for a while, especially if multiple people filed suit at the same time.

Though well intentioned obviously this has all been covered dozens of times already... Would prefer not to go off on a can't believe he's not in jail / try this tangent.

We don't need ways to do it, just victims willing to act and deal with the obstacles, time and effort involved in bringing him down finally. Easier said than done though.

I would be willing to contribute a few bucks to a "Help victims file civil suits" Fund.