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I wouldn't say the plastics are outdated by any stretch, with the exception of the Catachan infantry squad kit. The Cadians still have a decent amount of detail, and how much more would you really want with Guardsmen? They're not my favorite models, but I like them. The only infantry kit that really needs replacing at all are the standard Catachan infantry.

They did not redo the necron warriors so why would they redo imperial guard? It is hard to say imperial guard have the most missing and outdated models when you think about orks... they are missing way more than the guard. The only real reason I can believe that the guard will come before perks is because they really only need like must have 1 kit for their codex the hydra. Where as orks have no model for koptas, wazdakka, flash gits, zogwart, and have models that no longer fit the aesthetic of the orks at all any more. Buggies and tracks have drivers that don't even look like orks, I think they are rouge trader or gorka morka, grotsnik is just horrid, tankbustas and commandos both are a little funny looking next to an ork boy, mega Bob's are arguable but I personally think they are bad too. Guardians really not that bad off if you really think about it. But yeah guard do need a rules update and their 2 to 3 New units and their new plastic character. It will be fun to see all the complaining when that is all they get.

 Palindrome wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:

HWS wont be 10 men. Don't get your hopes up.

Well they badly need a survivability upgrade. They either need eternal warrior or some meatshields and this rumour suggests the latter, they certainly wont be getting 5 heavy weapons whatever happens.

This is a 'playtest' codex from a source with a less than stellar accuracy record, no point getting over excited for the moment.

Please allow squad Sgts to take lasguns again, please?

So why not rules for built on cover like they had in 2nd edition. That shield on the gun used to provide hard cover, all they need to do is give the gun a 5++ or stealth really IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rothrich wrote:
They did not redo the necron warriors so why would they redo imperial guard? It is hard to say imperial guard have the most missing and outdated models when you think about orks... they are missing way more than the guard. The only real reason I can believe that the guard will come before perks is because they really only need like must have 1 kit for their codex the hydra. Where as orks have no model for koptas, wazdakka, flash gits, zogwart, and have models that no longer fit the aesthetic of the orks at all any more. Buggies and tracks have drivers that don't even look like orks, I think they are rouge trader or gorka morka, grotsnik is just horrid, tankbustas and commandos both are a little funny looking next to an ork boy, mega Bob's are arguable but I personally think they are bad too. Guardians really not that bad off if you really think about it. But yeah guard do need a rules update and their 2 to 3 New units and their new plastic character. It will be fun to see all the complaining when that is all they get.

I remember when buggies and track drivers were the only ork models I liked Try building a serious ork army out of 2nd edition orks with out using gorka morka orks. I li9ke the current ork kits...

Back to guard, I would not be shocked to see ratlings and ogrin top vanish, they did in the first 3rd edition guard book after all. I don't think they will do it again, but it certainly would not be the first time.

 Brother SRM wrote:
I wouldn't say the plastics are outdated by any stretch, with the exception of the Catachan infantry squad kit. The Cadians still have a decent amount of detail, and how much more would you really want with Guardsmen? They're not my favorite models, but I like them. The only infantry kit that really needs replacing at all are the standard Catachan infantry.

They're at least as outdated as the Tactical box was in terms of aesthetics and technological limitations, and it's particularly apparent when you put either the Catachan or Cadian infantry boxes up against their respective Command Squads, even moreso against any of the FW Guard models. Their legs are squat and ludicrously thick, for one. Their feet, hands, and heads are so ridiculously large they're not even "heroic scale" anymore, just "moronic scale". The kits lack almost all the options available to the squad in the rules.

The existing Guard plastics were almost justifiable back when they came twenty to a box for £18, but in the era of the Dark Eldar plastics, the Sternguard box, and such a huge range of third-party "sci-fi human infantry" models, they're a joke at the current price, IMO at any price.

Nobody's saying they have to produce 100% truescaled models, but plastics tech has advanced, and we know GW has access to all but the latest of those advancements, so there's no excuse for producing supposedly-human figures that barely reach five-heads tall, and that's if you convert them so they stand upright rather than their default four-to-four and a half-heads stance.

 Ravajaxe wrote:

Current IG platoon organisation dates back to 2nd edition, so it may be fluffy but is obsolete.

It was heavily influenced by the RT company organisation though, just cleaned up (and it had a marked lack of beastmen). The original Support squad had 10 men and 5 heavy weapons; that could easily be rejigged to 10 men with 3 weapon teams, 3 'spotters' and a Sgt. This would allow 4 abalative wounds which would really help HWS surivive even light small arms fire. Eternal warrior would also be appropriate, possibly even the artillery rules for Lascannon and Autocannon.

The gun shield rule would be nice but its too small a change, a single multilaser shouldn't be able to wipe out a 120 point squad in 1 volley.

The plastic Catachans are really quite poor, all of the deformities of the metals but none of the charm. I can see them being redone, particullary if there is a Codex:Catachans (MkII). The Cadians are fine though, maybe recut to include some more weapon options but the basic kits itself is perfectly servicable.

A Rough Rider kit would be fun.

I can live with the plastic Cadians, but the standard Catachans are a bit poor.
IG have a lot of non vehicle kits needing models or a revamp. We need a true veteran kit, a penal legion kit, a proper rough rider kit and a psyker battle squad kit, so I seriously doubt that we will get an entirely new unit

I don't think that Ogryns or Ratlings will be updated though, since those models are quite recent.

Considering tanks, I'm honestly afraid that some variants might get scrapped if they aren't suitable for a dual kit. GW needs to put out plastics for the current FW models, since their policy as of now is that standard codex units should have standard GW models. Otherwise they could get removed and become true FW units again.

The only tank model that doesn't have at model from either FW or GW is the Colossus. Many people thought that the FW Bombard is the correct model, but that is a Leman Russ size chassis, while the Colossus is a Chimera size chassis.

I could live with an IG release that only had infantry kits, but knowing GW's taste in huge plastic kits, that probably won't happen.

Imperial Guardsmen in mechanised armour, that's what we need!

What, who said that?

 Tower75 wrote:
Imperial Guardsmen in mechanised armour, that's what we need!

What, who said that?

Well they have sentinels already. Unless you want some Centurion-like Cadian within a Cadian mecha-walker.

Platoon organization is not 'dated' its what sets Guard apart from everyone else. The loss of the Platoon structure would send me into a riot, along with other Guard players.

 Bonde wrote:


The only tank model that doesn't have at model from either FW or GW is the Colossus. Many people thought that the FW Bombard is the correct model, but that is a Leman Russ size chassis, while the Colossus is a Chimera size chassis.

Not according to FW themselves as they refer to the Bombard as being a Colossus, in addition to this it really only uses the tracks of a leman russ and rule wise it has the exact same armour values as a chimera.

 Bonde wrote:
The only tank model that doesn't have at model from either FW or GW is the Colossus. Many people thought that the FW Bombard is the correct model, but that is a Leman Russ size chassis, while the Colossus is a Chimera size chassis.

Looking at the Shadowsword, the Colossus would be easy to bundle with the Basilisk/Medusa- Just make the cannon modular like the shadowsword gun- have the breech/gun body with a short wide barrel as the Colossus. For the Medusa, a tapered barrel cap that extends the gun and makes it a smaller muzzle. For the Basilisk, a long thin barrel that plugs into the body to make an earthshaker.

1St priority should be a single tank kit for all leman russ and another single kit for all open topped artillery.

Not sure what to do about the hydra it's not open topped and the guns a supposted to be much larger than other ac. It really needs an official GW kit.

The vendetta will cause lots of butthurt. Either IG players will cry that a 15 point price increase with the same stats is harsh and unfair, or non IG players will cry that raising it's cost to that of a helldrake and lowering it's armor to 11/11/10 doesn't go far enough.

The vendetta isn't going to be the #1 source of butthurt if those rumors are true. The #1 source of butthurt would be IG vets being the only unit in the game able to charge out of a transport that isn't an assault vehicle. It's hilariously insulting to every elite cc unit in the game

 schadenfreude wrote:
1St priority should be a single tank kit for all leman russ and another single kit for all open topped artillery.

That would be the sensible and logical thing to do. Therefore it won't get done.

Not sure what to do about the hydra it's not open topped and the guns a supposted to be much larger than other ac.

They could either have it on its own or they could combine it with a new tank and have it as a duel kit. Either is acceptable.

The vendetta isn't going to be the #1 source of butthurt if those rumors are true. The #1 source of butthurt would be IG vets being the only unit in the game able to charge out of a transport that isn't an assault vehicle. It's hilariously insulting to every elite cc unit in the game

I really hope this does happen. I desire the tears of all Eldar players.

As far as the elimination of the hws box goes my guess is they will have a single box with 8 regular guardsmen and a 2 man heavy weapons team inside

My wish list is for a plastic range on more than just cadians or jungle fighters. If they consolidate HWS and regular infantry and then consolidate command squads and vets it would leave more floor space to introduce another range or 2 of IG infantry. It would also require vehicle crew, but people could just direct order a mordian talaran Valhallan steel legion vostorwhatever and be happy with that.

Players want multi part plastic kits, and IG players shovel out buckets of cash. It makes no damn sense why GW doesn't crank out a regular and command/vet multi partplastic kit for every IG army

Vendetta for 145 and 11/11/10 seems rather fair IMO.

 schadenfreude wrote:
As far as the elimination of the hws box goes my guess is they will have a single box with 8 regular guardsmen and a 2 man heavy weapons team inside

My wish list is for a plastic range on more than just cadians or jungle fighters. If they consolidate HWS and regular infantry and then consolidate command squads and vets it would leave more floor space to introduce another range or 2 of IG infantry. It would also require vehicle crew, but people could just direct order a mordian talaran Valhallan steel legion vostorwhatever and be happy with that.

Infantry sprues are currently 5 men on each. No way to do 8 in a box with a HW team unless they do an entirely new sprue.
Command squad kit is nice, but only 5 models and no carapace armor for vets. Command Squads came out with the last Guard codex, so they aren't gong away anytime soon.
Most logical would be a 10 man Vets/Stormtroopers box in Cadian styling for now.
I would love to see any new tank kits have different crew on the sprues than what we have- a female tank crewer, or different style- catachan or steel legion crewer would be awesome and not take up any additional space.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Vendetta for 145 and 11/11/10 seems rather fair IMO.

 schadenfreude wrote:
As far as the elimination of the hws box goes my guess is they will have a single box with 8 regular guardsmen and a 2 man heavy weapons team inside

My wish list is for a plastic range on more than just cadians or jungle fighters. If they consolidate HWS and regular infantry and then consolidate command squads and vets it would leave more floor space to introduce another range or 2 of IG infantry. It would also require vehicle crew, but people could just direct order a mordian talaran Valhallan steel legion vostorwhatever and be happy with that.

Infantry sprues are currently 5 men on each. No way to do 8 in a box with a HW team unless they do an entirely new sprue.
Command squad kit is nice, but only 5 models and no carapace armor for vets. Command Squads came out with the last Guard codex, so they aren't gong away anytime soon.
Most logical would be a 10 man Vets/Stormtroopers box in Cadian styling for now.
I would love to see any new tank kits have different crew on the sprues than what we have- a female tank crewer, or different style- catachan or steel legion crewer would be awesome and not take up any additional space.

They could Include the old sprue add a sprue with 4 heavy weapon crew, 1 or 2 of each HW, an extra sergeant, and 5 regular guardsmen for a 20 man platoon in a box. With double the guardsmen they could double the price or even increase it slightly over double the price if they were going to raise the price anyways. It would also take less shipping space and packaging.

Consider the way GW has been taking other IG type HW units...Sabre Defense Platforms and the like.
So now your Heavy Weapon Team is a squad (including a SGT) with either 2 or 3 Heavy Weapons using the Gun Emplacement rules.
So now you MAY (rumor rumor rumor) have a 10 man unit with Ld8 (9 stubborn with Commissar upgrade) that counts as being S7 3+ save. I you fail a Ld check or otherwise leave coherency with the guns, the guns are destroyed.
Add another IG order (named "12 O'clock High") and you can give any infantry unit (the HWS or even a nearby Melta/Plasma-vet unit) Skyfire for that turn.

That would make HWS survivable in the era of no cover S5+ weapons and make them useful against all threat types (IF you pass the orders check).

(EDIT) Model wise it would be pretty easy to either make the HWS 1 of 2 ways:
The guns are a separate kit based on the ADL gun mount. A Quadgun base and mount that holds the weapon, 2 or 3 mounts per kit and enough guns to kit out each mount (3 autocannons, 3 lascannons, 3 Bolters, 3 Grenade launchers, etc..). Then just add the standard squad (sold separately).

A larger kit that has the guns AND all 10 troops in box.

 Snrub wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:
1St priority should be a single tank kit for all leman russ and another single kit for all open topped artillery.

That would be the sensible and logical thing to do. Therefore it won't get done.

This is exactly what they did to the Bane blade.

I'd hope that one of the new plastic kits is another IG trooper variant, like Valhallans or Steel Legion. Speaking of which, somewhere I feel like a read a resurgence of the Armageddon campaign, which would definitely line up right timeline wise.

Im not sure whether its going to be a good or a bad update

agent1320 wrote:
Im not sure whether its going to be a good or a bad update

In other news: there is a 100% chance of weather today. That's such a vague comment with nothing backing it up, I don't really see the point in making it.

 Brother SRM wrote:

agent1320 wrote:
Im not sure whether its going to be a good or a bad update

In other news: there is a 100% chance of weather today. That's such a vague comment with nothing backing it up, I don't really see the point in making it.

News at 11; someone pissed in SRM's wheaties.

Seriously lay off dude. Many Guard players in this thread ambivalent about the update, including the guy you replied to.

To be honest, I can actually see most of this happening.
The Salamander is a cool looking tank (if nothing else, I've got one somewhere) and would suit a command squad.
The Vendetta is going to get hit with the Nerf Bat hard. That's a given, and to be fair it deserves it.
I wouldn't be surprised if they lost the squadron rule as well.
Personally I'd like to see the return of detachable weapon teams for squads.
Ogryns need something,
A return to auto hitting within 6" perhaps?
Anyway, I like the sound of most of this, To me it sounds like the non-cadian regiments will be coming out as supplements,

Cheerios, thank you very much

Ambivalence is one thing, but if you just say "it might be good might be bad" then you've added nothing to the conversation. It would be like a rumor reporting that it's going to be printed on paper. It goes without saying. If you were to say "well, the releases have been trending this way so it might be good, and this way so it might not be" with some evidence or examples, then you've got a half decent post.

For instance, I'm curious if doctrines will be implemented. We're seeing Chapter Tactics similar to the old Space Marine drawbacks/benefits system, and I'm curious if we'll see something like that. It would be good if there were a variety of them and they were all viable. it wouldn't be good if we ended up with one or two that were clearly better and the rest got ignored. Most of the Marine ones seem pretty balanced, so I'm hopeful.

Awaiting new MC for Guard...



Apart from that I think Veterans will look cool

I hope they add the "jeeps" in the codex even though everyone says they are gak. Granted this is coming from a player who uses ratlings and ogrens because they also look cool, and not because they are "OP"

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Anyone else find it funny vets will supposedly have the ability to assault from vehicles?

Also, I'm going to get in trouble for this, but I actually like the sound of these rumors. Several units I've always wanted to try from FW, unit changes that needed it (vets no longer being glorified special weapon squads, actual SWS and HWS's becoming more useful thanks to extra men, Vendetta price increase, etc.) and vet sarges able to give orders sounds awesome. All of this makes me suspect this is wishlisting

If there are only Cadian heroes, that strongly suggests Steel Legion or Catachan supplement. I guess we'll find out soon enough

The "assault from vehicles" thing is what definitely trips my BS meter. If nothing in the Eldar codex got it, and none of the Space Marines got it as chapter tactics, I highly doubt the +1 Imperial Guards will get it.




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 happygolucky wrote:
Awaiting new MC for Guard...



Apart from that I think Veterans will look cool

Considering the Knightworlds are technically Imperial Guard, I think we'll actually see a straight up Knight Castellan with this release.

Here's my question, what do you guys think would need to be changed on Storm Troopers to make them more competitive than they are now?

I just want a price decrease and a 24'' range. And change them back to the Hellgun. Sounds alot better than hot-shot lasgun. Maybe more access to special weapons.

Perhaps if they gave squads of 10 3 special weapons, and changed vets to a limit of 2, stormtroopers would just become an elite version of the vet with a 4+.

If Vets lost one special, but could gain access to a second heavy, coupled with Stormtrooper Sergeant being able to give an order, I think it'd make them both have a role.