Iron Hands Achilles

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**Unit1126PLL**

Hello everyone,

I've been outfitting an Iron Hands Achilles in my Chapter Forge lately, and I was wondering what was the best thing to put inside of it. Here are my options:

1) Sternguard + MOTF for funsies.
2) Random tac squad for scoring bunker (yes I know they must disembark).
3) Techmarine + 4 Servitors + MOTF for funsies. And shenanigans.

Also, my chapter is a successor chapter called the Logicians, but I'm using the IH Chapter Tactics (obviously).

**hazal**

Given it is a LR I would go either MotF by himself to keep the price down, or give him a beaty unit that can run out and hit something to take advantage of the ramp.

I would even take CCW scouts over marines for a scoring troop that can punch.

**Puscifer**

A nice Beaty Face unit is mandatory here.

TH/SS would be great as you're pretty much guaranteed to get across the board with an IWND Achilles.

**Eldarain**

Is the Achilles an Assault Vehicle?

**MarkyMark**

It can only carry 6 space marines iirc, so 5 TH SS would be a no go. IIRC it isnt a assault vehicle,it lacks the assault ramp

**Eldarain**

That's what I thought but I wasn't sure if it had been updated. Where can you find the most recent rules for it?

**Puscifer**

I think I'm thinking of the Spartan.

Which one is the Achilles?

**Kain**

Puscifer wrote:
I think I'm thinking of the Spartan.

Which one is the Achilles?

The lance/melta immune one with a thunderfire cannon and two twinlinked multimeltas and forces all vehicle damage rolls to take a -1 penalty. Which means that AP - weapons are nearly useless.

**Eldarain**

Armed with a Hull mounted Thunderfire Cannon and Twin linked Multi-Melta Sponsons. Immune to Melta and Lance special rules and gets -1 on the damage chart.

Holds 6 Marines and doesn't have the ramp.

**BoomWolf**

Built-in TFC and MM sponsons, with immunity to lance, melta and a -1 to pen results (if you somehow get one)!?!?!?

What book does it come from, and what on earth is the cost?!

**Kain**

BoomWolf wrote:
Built-in TFC and MM sponsons, with immunity to lance, melta and a -1 to pen results (if you somehow get one)!?!?!?

What book does it come from, and what on earth is the cost?!

It's in Imperial armor 10 and costs 325 points.

It costs 65 pounds sterling in real money.

**Quintinus**

BoomWolf wrote:
Built-in TFC and MM sponsons, with immunity to lance, melta and a -1 to pen results (if you somehow get one)!?!?!?

What book does it come from, and what on earth is the cost?!

I know that it's 325 points, and it's in Imperial Armor 10. See below here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/342385.page

Also what is even more horrifying is the fact that Iron Hands LR Achilles will have IWND.

Put a Master of the Forge in there and you have a truly unkillable menace.

In fact, three of them are 975 points. Buy 3 Tac squads of 5 men and a Master of the Forge and you're good to go!

**BoomWolf**

Holy hell.
A list with 3 of these in Iron Hands tactics is bound to be one of the rising powerbuilds for forgeworld-allowing tournaments.

Its just...you need not only to have a decent number of S10 around to even bother it, you need alot of luck to 1-shot it, and if you fail to 1-shot, odds are any damage will be undone.

**Kain**

BoomWolf wrote:
Holy hell.
A list with 3 of these in Iron Hands tactics is bound to be one of the rising powerbuilds for forgeworld-allowing tournaments.

Its just...you need not only to have a decent number of S10 around to even bother it, you need alot of luck to 1-shot it, and if you fail to 1-shot, odds are any damage will be undone.

There is something even more extreme from Forge world (of course it's also pricier)

1d4chan wrote:Spartan Assault Tank (Forgeworld) - Forgeworld takes the old schizophrenic Land Raider, and pumps it up with steroids. fething five hull points, two twin-linked two-shot lascannons (it almost gets off as many lascannon shots as a terminus ultra while still being able to carry troops, doesn't go boom when you roll badly, and gets way more goodies), TL heavy bolters, transport capacity of 25, in-built extra armor, good-old 14/14/14, PotMS and Assault Vehicle. You even can take frag launchers (which got far more awesome with the new grenade rules) and ceramite shielding (feth you, meltaguns) for a marginal increase in points. Meaning it can do the roles of the Terminus Ultra, the Achilles, and the Ares all at the same time, all it really needs are some burny weapons. But what are the drawbacks you ask? This uber metal box can not be taken as a dedicated transport at all. Also, as a Forgeworld model, it will cost you a unicorn's soul.
At only 45 points more, there is no reason to take the Godhammer landraider over this beast ever again.

Your opponent might hate your guts if you field this.

It can carry up to twenty five marines or twelve termies.

**Puscifer**

1d4chan wrote:Spartan Assault Tank (Forgeworld) - Forgeworld takes the old schizophrenic Land Raider, and pumps it up with steroids. fething five hull points, two twin-linked two-shot lascannons (it almost gets off as many lascannon shots as a terminus ultra while still being able to carry troops, doesn't go boom when you roll badly, and gets way more goodies), TL heavy bolters, transport capacity of 25, in-built extra armor, good-old 14/14/14, PotMS and Assault Vehicle. You even can take frag launchers (which got far more awesome with the new grenade rules) and ceramite shielding (feth you, meltaguns) for a marginal increase in points. Meaning it can do the roles of the Terminus Ultra, the Achilles, and the Ares all at the same time, all it really needs are some burny weapons. But what are the drawbacks you ask? This uber metal box can not be taken as a dedicated transport at all. Also, as a Forgeworld model, it will cost you a unicorn's soul.
At only 45 points more, there is no reason to take the Godhammer landraider over this beast ever again.

Your opponent might hate your guts if you field this.

Yup, I was thinking Spartan.

**Tactical_Genius**

Kain wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:
Holy hell.
A list with 3 of these in Iron Hands tactics is bound to be one of the rising powerbuilds for forgeworld-allowing tournaments.

Its just...you need not only to have a decent number of S10 around to even bother it, you need alot of luck to 1-shot it, and if you fail to 1-shot, odds are any damage will be undone.

There is something even more extreme from Forge world (of course it's also pricier)

1d4chan wrote:Spartan Assault Tank (Forgeworld) - Forgeworld takes the old schizophrenic Land Raider, and pumps it up with steroids. fething five hull points, two twin-linked two-shot lascannons (it almost gets off as many lascannon shots as a terminus ultra while still being able to carry troops, doesn't go boom when you roll badly, and gets way more goodies), TL heavy bolters, transport capacity of 25, in-built extra armor, good-old 14/14/14, PotMS and Assault Vehicle. You even can take frag launchers (which got far more awesome with the new grenade rules) and ceramite shielding (feth you, meltaguns) for a marginal increase in points. Meaning it can do the roles of the Terminus Ultra, the Achilles, and the Ares all at the same time, all it really needs are some burny weapons. But what are the drawbacks you ask? This uber metal box can not be taken as a dedicated transport at all. Also, as a Forgeworld model, it will cost you a unicorn's soul.
At only 45 points more, there is no reason to take the Godhammer landraider over this beast ever again.

Your opponent might hate your guts if you field this.

It can carry up to twenty five marines or twelve termies.

Still the Achilles is better. The Spartan doesn't have -1 to damage chart or immune to lance, AND it lacks the best thing about the Achilles... THE MOTHERFLIPPING THUNDERFIRE CANNON :O
I ran a 2k list (pre-new marines) as DA with 5 Achilles, each with a Libby + 5 scouts in (one didn't have the Libby), with 3 bike/PFG/servoharness techmarines around/behind them.
14/14/14 immune to melta, immune to lance, -1 to damage charts, 4++, 4HP (or was it 5...? I think 4) which can be healed is nigh unkillable at range.

**Kain**

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Kain wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:
Holy hell.
A list with 3 of these in Iron Hands tactics is bound to be one of the rising powerbuilds for forgeworld-allowing tournaments.

Its just...you need not only to have a decent number of S10 around to even bother it, you need alot of luck to 1-shot it, and if you fail to 1-shot, odds are any damage will be undone.

There is something even more extreme from Forge world (of course it's also pricier)

1d4chan wrote:Spartan Assault Tank (Forgeworld) - Forgeworld takes the old schizophrenic Land Raider, and pumps it up with steroids. fething five hull points, two twin-linked two-shot lascannons (it almost gets off as many lascannon shots as a terminus ultra while still being able to carry troops, doesn't go boom when you roll badly, and gets way more goodies), TL heavy bolters, transport capacity of 25, in-built extra armor, good-old 14/14/14, PotMS and Assault Vehicle. You even can take frag launchers (which got far more awesome with the new grenade rules) and ceramite shielding (feth you, meltaguns) for a marginal increase in points. Meaning it can do the roles of the Terminus Ultra, the Achilles, and the Ares all at the same time, all it really needs are some burny weapons. But what are the drawbacks you ask? This uber metal box can not be taken as a dedicated transport at all. Also, as a Forgeworld model, it will cost you a unicorn's soul.
At only 45 points more, there is no reason to take the Godhammer landraider over this beast ever again.

Your opponent might hate your guts if you field this.

It can carry up to twenty five marines or twelve termies.

Still the Achilles is better. The Spartan doesn't have -1 to damage chart or immune to lance, AND it lacks the best thing about the Achilles... THE MOTHERFLIPPING THUNDERFIRE CANNON :O
I ran a 2k list (pre-new marines) as DA with 5 Achilles, each with a Libby + 5 scouts in (one didn't have the Libby), with 3 bike/PFG/servoharness techmarines around/behind them.
14/14/14 immune to melta, immune to lance, -1 to damage charts, 4++, 4HP (or was it 5...? I think 4) which can be healed is nigh unkillable at range.

The best part about the Spartan is that it can swap around both the pintle mounted and hull mounted gun.

I like mine with dual heavy flamers, though some prefer dual multimeltas or dual heavy bolters.

**Godless-Mimicry**

Kain wrote:
Puscifer wrote:
I think I'm thinking of the Spartan.

Which one is the Achilles?

The lance/melta immune one with a thunderfire cannon and two twinlinked multimeltas and forces all vehicle damage rolls to take a -1 penalty. Which means that AP - weapons are nearly useless.

5th edition dude; AP- meas nothing for vehicles now.

**Puscifer**

They're going to have to Nerf this Tank hard.

It's rediclous even without IWND.

Can it move and still fire it's TFC?

**Kain**

Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Kain wrote:
Puscifer wrote:
I think I'm thinking of the Spartan.

Which one is the Achilles?

The lance/melta immune one with a thunderfire cannon and two twinlinked multimeltas and forces all vehicle damage rolls to take a -1 penalty. Which means that AP - weapons are nearly useless.

5th edition dude; AP- meas nothing for vehicles now.

Oh really? Still, the -1 I think means you can't get an explodes with anything worse than AP2, forcing hull point stripping.

Which is precisely what you want to happen with an IWND 4HP AV14 all around vehicle.

To maximize butthurt, park it in some ruins.

**jamin484**

BoomWolf wrote:
Holy hell.
A list with 3 of these in Iron Hands tactics is bound to be one of the rising powerbuilds for forgeworld-allowing tournaments.

Its just...you need not only to have a decent number of S10 around to even bother it, you need alot of luck to 1-shot it, and if you fail to 1-shot, odds are any damage will be undone.

Grav weapons...

**BoomWolf**

You mean the 1/6 chance to even cause a hull point, under optimal conditions?
Gravs are not very good anti-tank. not to mention poor range.

**McGibs**

There's a few armourbane things out there that can still eat it for lunch (Skarbrand, that Black Legion evil-eye thing, Chainfists, Centurions, IG Vanquishers or Medusas, plagueweapons, screamers) not to mention that Necron gauss would scoff pretty heartily.
Don't get me wrong, they're beefy as all hell, but melta and lance arent the only things that can punch through AV14. With MoTF and other supports, that's a whole lot of eggs to be overconfident with.

**Unit1126PLL**

If one is aware of the hazards, one can use the 1600-odd other points against them specifically.

Additionally, use cover well.

**mwnciboo**

I'd just stick a normal Techmarine in an Achilles - Can they still take servitor retinues? Take a pair of them and if necessary, still probably cheaper than MOTF.

Achilles is epic. Iron Hands are coming back from the Wilderness with a big "Train of Pain" and going to reassert themselves. The Flesh is Weak so lets get squishing!

**jamin484**

BoomWolf wrote:
You mean the 1/6 chance to even cause a hull point, under optimal conditions?
Gravs are not very good anti-tank. not to mention poor range.

Immobilise and take a hull point. Two 6's kill any land raider because an already immobilised tank takes an additional HP. Pretty good anti tank methinks...

**mwnciboo**

jamin484 wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:
You mean the 1/6 chance to even cause a hull point, under optimal conditions?
Gravs are not very good anti-tank. not to mention poor range.

Immobilise and take a hull point. Two 6's kill any land raider because an already immobilised tank takes an additional HP. Pretty good anti tank methinks...

vs a LR with a Techmarine inside it and IWND it becomes less of an issue, but yeah Gravs could be fairly effective against certain forces.

**Godless-Mimicry**

jamin484 wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:
You mean the 1/6 chance to even cause a hull point, under optimal conditions?
Gravs are not very good anti-tank. not to mention poor range.

Immobilise and take a hull point. Two 6's kill any land raider because an already immobilised tank takes an additional HP. Pretty good anti tank methinks...

No, your math is off. First 6 does 1HP and Immobilizes it. Second 6 does 1HP and Immobilizes it, but because it is already Immobilizes it instead loses another 1HP. That's only 3HP down. It has 4HP.

Perhaps you thought the initial Immobilize does a HP as well itself, but this is not the case, as it is the glance or pen. that strips HP, not the damage result.

**jamin484**

Godless-Mimicry wrote:
jamin484 wrote:
BoomWolf wrote:
You mean the 1/6 chance to even cause a hull point, under optimal conditions?
Gravs are not very good anti-tank. not to mention poor range.

Immobilise and take a hull point. Two 6's kill any land raider because an already immobilised tank takes an additional HP. Pretty good anti tank methinks...

No, your math is off. First 6 does 1HP and Immobilizes it. Second 6 does 1HP and Immobilizes it, but because it is already Immobilizes it instead loses another 1HP. That's only 3HP down. It has 4HP.

Perhaps you thought the initial Immobilize does a HP as well itself, but this is not the case, as it is the glance or pen. that strips HP, not the damage result.

I thought they only had three HP's. Apologies.

Grav weapons are still an effective counter for iron hands LR silliness.

**Nobody_Holme**

Three sixes with gravs will kill a spartan.

Hee, might have to ally in something with gravs to my DA. Just to break people who bring spartans. Then again, I have lascannon-spam available.