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 Psienesis wrote:
This thread is fail. No one has yet mentioned the true winner of these sorts of battles.

If your answer was not "Alpharius", you are wrong.

Alpharius would get gang raped by all the loyal chapter masters within 10 seconds lol

My own homebrew chapter master Awsumus Badassius who was recruited from the planet of Marysupiter, which has is 10000 times the size of Terra, hence meaning he grew up on a planet with 10000 times the Gravity on Earth and is therefore 100 times stronger than any other marine. His armour is also formed from specialist matierials found on his homeworld that are entirely indestructable, and his special thunder hammer "Snowflake" freezes the foe below Absolute Zero and is super light. He is also an Alpha+ Psyker and completely mindrapes Eldrad at chess.

In all seriousness, I'd have to throw my vote to Moloc too, but give honourable mentions to Grimnar, Tyberos of the Carcharadons, and possibly Gabriel Angelos. Its not everyone who wields a Nemesis Daemon Hammer outside the GK, or goes mano-a-mano with a Khorne Psyker Daemon Prince and comes out on top.

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
This thread is fail. No one has yet mentioned the true winner of these sorts of battles.

If your answer was not "Alpharius", you are wrong.

Alpharius would get gang raped by all the loyal chapter masters within 10 seconds lol

All of those Loyal Chapter Masters are actually Alpharius. In disguise.

 Sasa0mg wrote:
He would find a doorway and bottle neck them :/ where they would be forced into a 1 v 1 display of skill in which numbers would mean for naught!

Wait, this isn't 300.

Then again, as close as it gets in the 40K universe xD

They would all then take a few paces back and shoot him to death with bolts/plasma/melta/hellfire rounds. Maybe even a smart CM would be in termie armor toting around an assault cannon like a boss.

not a chapter master but for sheer bad assery - yarrick!

Id go with creed if we're including guard. The CM's didnt realize the battleground was actually a warlord titans shoulder.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Sasa0mg wrote:
He would find a doorway and bottle neck them :/ where they would be forced into a 1 v 1 display of skill in which numbers would mean for naught!

Wait, this isn't 300.

Then again, as close as it gets in the 40K universe xD

They would all then take a few paces back and shoot him to death with bolts/plasma/melta/hellfire rounds. Maybe even a smart CM would be in termie armor toting around an assault cannon like a boss.

With his 2+/3+ thats a strategy that could take some time.

 Sasa0mg wrote:

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Sasa0mg wrote:
He would find a doorway and bottle neck them :/ where they would be forced into a 1 v 1 display of skill in which numbers would mean for naught!

Wait, this isn't 300.

Then again, as close as it gets in the 40K universe xD

They would all then take a few paces back and shoot him to death with bolts/plasma/melta/hellfire rounds. Maybe even a smart CM would be in termie armor toting around an assault cannon like a boss.

With his 2+/3+ thats a strategy that could take some time.

AP2 on plenty of them means hes gotta rely on that shield to keep him moving. plus while hes in the corner he gets 1 shot to kill (if he hasnt used it) then dies like an animal.

That one shot would do a good job at 1 shotting those that aren't un-instant killable. That said I'm sure he would just rush out of that corner like a bull after he realizes no ones going to walk over to fight him.

Screw it lets throw in chaos chapter masters...wait do they really have chapter??

Course, and I'm sure Abaddon might tip the scale a little xD

I'm backing Logan Grimnar, in CC it wouldn't be much of anything, just teeth flying and a laughing wolf.

 Sasa0mg wrote:
Course, and I'm sure Abaddon might tip the scale a little xD

Abaddon would make mincemeat of any Chapter Master, but then again he is a Legion Commander rather than Chapter Master. Any other Legion Commander would pulp him in a heartbeat.

Jangustus wrote:
Lysander is not a chapter master....

Apart from that I don't know all the forge world ones. The best of the codexes is probably Calgar, though Dante making one of the others have worse stats would be amusing.

Given the stats that Lysander has as a Captain, makes you wonder what CM Pugh would look like on paper.

jwr wrote:

Jangustus wrote:
Lysander is not a chapter master....

Apart from that I don't know all the forge world ones. The best of the codexes is probably Calgar, though Dante making one of the others have worse stats would be amusing.

Given the stats that Lysander has as a Captain, makes you wonder what CM Pugh would look like on paper.

He's too awesome for the tabletop.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Sasa0mg wrote:
Course, and I'm sure Abaddon might tip the scale a little xD

Abaddon would make mincemeat of any Chapter Master, but then again he is a Legion Commander rather than Chapter Master. Any other Legion Commander would pulp him in a heartbeat.

Abadoodoo has failed 13 times to take terra I mean come on man you have the powers of chaos at your disposal all 4 gods no less, go home Abaddon your drunk.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
He might've been thinking of a Standard Relic Blade, which is indeed AP3.

Gotta remember that Molac wields a special one that Custodians used.

Fair enough, I'll have a look at his profile the next time I get a chance. When I looked at it I don't remember seeing an entry for his CCW, like you do in the new codices. I'm not sure what Imperial Armour book he was using.

Well his newest one has it under the Chapter Tactics, before Dark Fury, and to the left of Orbital Bombardment.

Yeah, I had a look. His old profile in The Badab War Part 2 Imperial Armour 10 is the entry that doesn't have his AP2 spear. Obviously he was using that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:
New codex I have to ask all you space marines fans out there defend your chapter master this is a no holds barred all CM in one arena free for all (not tabletop) by chapter masters I mean founding chapters, and successors no made up chapter masters. I would have to go with my chapter master Asterion Moloc of the Minotaurs with his Black Spear, storm shield, and termie armor his only competition would be Lysander but with his unwieldy thunder hammer would be to slow and get speared through the heart.

Tell how you think this free for all would play out and who would be the last man standing.

Sorry but Moloc doesn't even beat Logan nevermind Lysander or Calgar.

What Moloc would zap him in his uncovered face and not even think twice about it, the high lords of terra would stock there champion with the best equipment for a fight like this, and yet again Moloc is all about killing space marines......and necrons....crap he can kill anything lol.

Fluff wise I still think Logan would own Moloc. Leman Russ' special ability was he could match any moves of any opponent he was up against while keeping his own skills and moves. This is some he passed onto his legion. Logan would have a field day with Moloc.

Also not to mention tabletop wise this is reflected. In the game Logan hands Moloc his backside on a silver platter.

Fluffwise Space wolves are the specialist snowflakes of them all that can beat everyone and do anything and generally be the best at everything..

Fightingwise he's gotta deal with S6/AP2 I5 attacks while he has to use either S5/8 AP2 at I1, not to mention getting an S8 shot to the face beforehand, all the while Molac is getting rerolls on all 1's, while at the same time Molac is packing a Storm Shield so Logan is still fighting a 3++ still.

Not to mention Molac is slightly tougher, coming in with W4 over Logans W3.

And with that my point is proven.

Only tabletop wise. Logan would still have him in the fluff. I was unaware of his current rules and apparently so is my friend who actually uses him.

 DarthOvious wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
He might've been thinking of a Standard Relic Blade, which is indeed AP3.

Gotta remember that Molac wields a special one that Custodians used.

Fair enough, I'll have a look at his profile the next time I get a chance. When I looked at it I don't remember seeing an entry for his CCW, like you do in the new codices. I'm not sure what Imperial Armour book he was using.

Well his newest one has it under the Chapter Tactics, before Dark Fury, and to the left of Orbital Bombardment.

Yeah, I had a look. His old profile in The Badab War Part 2 Imperial Armour 10 is the entry that doesn't have his AP2 spear. Obviously he was using that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:
New codex I have to ask all you space marines fans out there defend your chapter master this is a no holds barred all CM in one arena free for all (not tabletop) by chapter masters I mean founding chapters, and successors no made up chapter masters. I would have to go with my chapter master Asterion Moloc of the Minotaurs with his Black Spear, storm shield, and termie armor his only competition would be Lysander but with his unwieldy thunder hammer would be to slow and get speared through the heart.

Tell how you think this free for all would play out and who would be the last man standing.

Sorry but Moloc doesn't even beat Logan nevermind Lysander or Calgar.

What Moloc would zap him in his uncovered face and not even think twice about it, the high lords of terra would stock there champion with the best equipment for a fight like this, and yet again Moloc is all about killing space marines......and necrons....crap he can kill anything lol.

Fluff wise I still think Logan would own Moloc. Leman Russ' special ability was he could match any moves of any opponent he was up against while keeping his own skills and moves. This is some he passed onto his legion. Logan would have a field day with Moloc.

Also not to mention tabletop wise this is reflected. In the game Logan hands Moloc his backside on a silver platter.

Fluffwise Space wolves are the specialist snowflakes of them all that can beat everyone and do anything and generally be the best at everything..

Fightingwise he's gotta deal with S6/AP2 I5 attacks while he has to use either S5/8 AP2 at I1, not to mention getting an S8 shot to the face beforehand, all the while Molac is getting rerolls on all 1's, while at the same time Molac is packing a Storm Shield so Logan is still fighting a 3++ still.

Not to mention Molac is slightly tougher, coming in with W4 over Logans W3.

And with that my point is proven.

Only tabletop wise. Logan would still have him in the fluff. I was unaware of his current rules and apparently so is my friend who actually uses him.

I quote your disagreement, with my disagreement I say Moloc fluff wise still has him he ruined a necron lord (no easy feat as we all know) and destroys any space marines chaos or otherwise he and his chapter faces. That and Moloc cant die he can be killed but another takes his place he's not a person he's a legend.

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

I quote your disagreement, with my disagreement I say Moloc fluff wise still has him he ruined a necron lord (no easy feat as we all know) and destroys any space marines chaos or otherwise he and his chapter faces. That and Moloc cant die he can be killed but another takes his place he's not a person he's a legend.

Really? Calgar? Dante? Logan? They chuckle at the cute little bedtime stories of Moloc. He doesn't even scratch the surface on the bronze plate mounted to the pedestal of their titanic monuments of multiple legendary stands.

Fluff wise:

Calgar hunted down and killed the Swarmlord with his bare hands... Moloc? Cute, you beat up on some wayward chapter masters (and never finished the deed with Huron, way to go )

Dante is a legend beyond legends. He'll save the Emperor himself some day and just staring at Moloc sternly will make the Minotaur feel weak and inadequate.

Logan's met other Lord of Terra bootlicking Chapter Masters before... and cleaved them in twain... Moloc's just another notch in Morkai

Fluffwise, Moloc is a first rate, second rate Chapter Master.

That is true, Logan has killed a GK Grand Master. And the new fluff pretty much states that GK are better than their regular counterparts.

Don't forget though that Calgar had his ass handed to him on a silver platter by the Swarmlord the first time they met (BfM) and unless I've missed a major Nid Novel, the story where he bests Swarmlord trough Drop Pod Assault was just a WD article.

Either way, Dante thinks he may be the one the prophecy speaks of but it is just as likely to be the Sanguinor or whomever succeeds Dante. Its a long way off.

Either way, Moloc has beaten many more CMs than any other has.

Fluffwise, what's Tu'shan have going on? He's supposed to be one of the strongest CMs around.

I've seen some models with him carrying a thunderhammer, plus his cloak made of Drake Scales. I think I read some homebrew rules where because of his strength he could use his TH at initiative.

I don't know if he's got actual rules in any books though. But fluffwise he's got to be up there.

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
He might've been thinking of a Standard Relic Blade, which is indeed AP3.

Gotta remember that Molac wields a special one that Custodians used.

Fair enough, I'll have a look at his profile the next time I get a chance. When I looked at it I don't remember seeing an entry for his CCW, like you do in the new codices. I'm not sure what Imperial Armour book he was using.

Well his newest one has it under the Chapter Tactics, before Dark Fury, and to the left of Orbital Bombardment.

Yeah, I had a look. His old profile in The Badab War Part 2 Imperial Armour 10 is the entry that doesn't have his AP2 spear. Obviously he was using that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:
New codex I have to ask all you space marines fans out there defend your chapter master this is a no holds barred all CM in one arena free for all (not tabletop) by chapter masters I mean founding chapters, and successors no made up chapter masters. I would have to go with my chapter master Asterion Moloc of the Minotaurs with his Black Spear, storm shield, and termie armor his only competition would be Lysander but with his unwieldy thunder hammer would be to slow and get speared through the heart.

Tell how you think this free for all would play out and who would be the last man standing.

Sorry but Moloc doesn't even beat Logan nevermind Lysander or Calgar.

What Moloc would zap him in his uncovered face and not even think twice about it, the high lords of terra would stock there champion with the best equipment for a fight like this, and yet again Moloc is all about killing space marines......and necrons....crap he can kill anything lol.

Fluff wise I still think Logan would own Moloc. Leman Russ' special ability was he could match any moves of any opponent he was up against while keeping his own skills and moves. This is some he passed onto his legion. Logan would have a field day with Moloc.

Also not to mention tabletop wise this is reflected. In the game Logan hands Moloc his backside on a silver platter.

Fluffwise Space wolves are the specialist snowflakes of them all that can beat everyone and do anything and generally be the best at everything..

Fightingwise he's gotta deal with S6/AP2 I5 attacks while he has to use either S5/8 AP2 at I1, not to mention getting an S8 shot to the face beforehand, all the while Molac is getting rerolls on all 1's, while at the same time Molac is packing a Storm Shield so Logan is still fighting a 3++ still.

Not to mention Molac is slightly tougher, coming in with W4 over Logans W3.

And with that my point is proven.

Only tabletop wise. Logan would still have him in the fluff. I was unaware of his current rules and apparently so is my friend who actually uses him.

I quote your disagreement, with my disagreement I say Moloc fluff wise still has him he ruined a necron lord (no easy feat as we all know) and destroys any space marines chaos or otherwise he and his chapter faces. That and Moloc cant die he can be killed but another takes his place he's not a person he's a legend.

If someone else takes his place then the person who replaces him will take their own abilities with them. I don't see how that is an argument to say how awesome he is. We're talking about Logan Grimnar here.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Logan_Grimnar

Grimnar is believed by some observers to be one of the most powerful warriors in the Imperium, greater even than other Space Marine Chapter Masters such as Lord Commander Dante of the Blood Angels, Supreme Grand Master Azrael of the Dark Angels, and even Lord Marneus Calgar of the feared Ultramarines.

and also this:

At the cost of many Grey Knights' lives, the Space Wolves and the people of Armageddon were able to banish Angron and his devoted followers of the Blood God back to the Warp. With the defeat of their leader, the remaining forces of Chaos were quickly crushed by the Imperials.

If a Daemon Primarch such as Angron and his crew can't get past Logan then I don't see how Moloc is supposed to.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:
New codex I have to ask all you space marines fans out there defend your chapter master this is a no holds barred all CM in one arena free for all (not tabletop) by chapter masters I mean founding chapters, and successors no made up chapter masters. I would have to go with my chapter master Asterion Moloc of the Minotaurs with his Black Spear, storm shield, and termie armor his only competition would be Lysander but with his unwieldy thunder hammer would be to slow and get speared through the heart.

Tell how you think this free for all would play out and who would be the last man standing.

Sorry but Moloc doesn't even beat Logan nevermind Lysander or Calgar.

What Moloc would zap him in his uncovered face and not even think twice about it, the high lords of terra would stock there champion with the best equipment for a fight like this, and yet again Moloc is all about killing space marines......and necrons....crap he can kill anything lol.

Fluff wise I still think Logan would own Moloc. Leman Russ' special ability was he could match any moves of any opponent he was up against while keeping his own skills and moves. This is some he passed onto his legion. Logan would have a field day with Moloc.

Also not to mention tabletop wise this is reflected. In the game Logan hands Moloc his backside on a silver platter.

Fluffwise Space wolves are the specialist snowflakes of them all that can beat everyone and do anything and generally be the best at everything..

As opposed to Asterion "I beat everyone because HURR!!" Moloc? Please. I hate Space Wolf fluff just as much as everyone else, but Logan's been the Great Wolf for 700 years.

Regardless, if we're going to start using fluff then Helbrecht wins, because the Black Templars battlefleet is bigger than that of other known Chapters. Martial skill means little when you're being shot by a Cyclonic Torpedo from orbit. On a more serious note, if we're talking fluff-wise then Dante would probably win, seeing as he's got 1100+ years of experience.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 bigboss1o1 wrote:
New codex I have to ask all you space marines fans out there defend your chapter master this is a no holds barred all CM in one arena free for all (not tabletop) by chapter masters I mean founding chapters, and successors no made up chapter masters. I would have to go with my chapter master Asterion Moloc of the Minotaurs with his Black Spear, storm shield, and termie armor his only competition would be Lysander but with his unwieldy thunder hammer would be to slow and get speared through the heart.

Tell how you think this free for all would play out and who would be the last man standing.

Sorry but Moloc doesn't even beat Logan nevermind Lysander or Calgar.

What Moloc would zap him in his uncovered face and not even think twice about it, the high lords of terra would stock there champion with the best equipment for a fight like this, and yet again Moloc is all about killing space marines......and necrons....crap he can kill anything lol.

Fluff wise I still think Logan would own Moloc. Leman Russ' special ability was he could match any moves of any opponent he was up against while keeping his own skills and moves. This is some he passed onto his legion. Logan would have a field day with Moloc.

Also not to mention tabletop wise this is reflected. In the game Logan hands Moloc his backside on a silver platter.

Fluffwise Space wolves are the specialist snowflakes of them all that can beat everyone and do anything and generally be the best at everything..

As opposed to Asterion "I beat everyone because HURR!!" Moloc? Please. The Minotaurs are the only Chapter in existence that actually match the Space Wolves in hubris, because they just keep winning and being Space Marines +1 all the time. The Dark Angels lose sometimes, Blood Angels lose sometimes, Black Templars lose sometimes, even Ultramarines lose sometimes, but both Space Wolves and Minotaurs just kill stuff all the time.

For the record, I hate Space Wolf fluff just as much as everyone else, but Logan's been the Great Wolf for 700 years. As much as it pains me to say, I'm on the Space Wolf side of this one.

Regardless, if we're going to start using fluff then Helbrecht wins, because the Black Templars battlefleet is bigger than that of other known Chapters. Martial skill means little when you're being shot by a Cyclonic Torpedo from orbit. On a more serious note, if we're talking fluff-wise then Dante would probably win, seeing as he's got 1100+ years of experience.

 DarthOvious wrote:

and also this:

At the cost of many Grey Knights' lives, the Space Wolves and the people of Armageddon were able to banish Angron and his devoted followers of the Blood God back to the Warp. With the defeat of their leader, the remaining forces of Chaos were quickly crushed by the Imperials.

If a Daemon Primarch such as Angron and his crew can't get past Logan then I don't see how Moloc is supposed to.

It wasn't Logan they couldn't get past, it was Aurelian and his 100 Grey Knight Terminators, of whom around a dozen survived.

 DarthOvious wrote:

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Logan_Grimnar

Grimnar is believed by some observers to be one of the most powerful warriors in the Imperium, greater even than other Space Marine Chapter Masters such as Lord Commander Dante of the Blood Angels, Supreme Grand Master Azrael of the Dark Angels, and even Lord Marneus Calgar of the feared Ultramarines.

Never, ever quote Warhammer wikia if you don't have a secondary source supporting the claim. It explicitly allows fan-made fluff and portrays it as official.

Oh, dear... didn't realise we were talking in fluff rather than game rules. In which case, I present Draigo, with his magical sparkly 2+/2++ rerollable plot armour that always adds 1 to the result.

@AlmightWalrus

I fail to see how helbrecht can be the best when he lost his hand to a necron overlord that was hardly trying.

Could Vulkan be the best? I thought there was a book recemtly released that basically made him invulnerable (he has regeneration like wolverine or something whacko like that)

 bigboss1o1 wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Sasa0mg wrote:
Course, and I'm sure Abaddon might tip the scale a little xD

Abaddon would make mincemeat of any Chapter Master, but then again he is a Legion Commander rather than Chapter Master. Any other Legion Commander would pulp him in a heartbeat.

Abadoodoo has failed 13 times to take terra I mean come on man you have the powers of chaos at your disposal all 4 gods no less, go home Abaddon your drunk.

I'm not a chaos player...BUT DEM BE FIGHTEN WORDS MY GOOD SIR!!!!!

 A GumyBear wrote:
@AlmightWalrus

I fail to see how helbrecht can be the best when he lost his hand to a necron overlord that was hardly trying.

Could Vulkan be the best? I thought there was a book recemtly released that basically made him invulnerable (he has regeneration like wolverine or something whacko like that)

vilkan is forgefather, not chapter master. Thatd be Tu'Shaun. Supposed to be immensely powerful even for a marine and tote a TH and some melta weaponry on top of a drake-scale cloak.

This thread has made it clear for one thing at least....the Minotaurs are CLEARLY Forge World's own personal "special Snowflake", much like the Space Pups are GW's.

Reminds me of that song, "Anything you can do, I can do better!"

Basically, from a fluff perspective, the Moo-Cows are the 40K version of the 30K Space Pups. Both filled the exact same role.

From a game perspective, I'd say Calgar is going to paste the other CM in a one-on-one duel. I wished Pedro was a bit better instead of just a way to get scoring sternguard.

As opposed to Asterion "I beat everyone because HURR!!" Moloc? Please. The Minotaurs are the only Chapter in existence that actually match the Space Wolves in hubris, because they just keep winning and being Space Marines +1 all the time. The Dark Angels lose sometimes, Blood Angels lose sometimes, Black Templars lose sometimes, even Ultramarines lose sometimes, but both Space Wolves and Minotaurs just kill stuff all the time.

Mainly because they fight other marines and renegades most of the time, but thats the thing, they are absolutely hated. They hate everyone else, they gladly murder other marines, and they do so with relish, not to mention the fact that many of the lower marines are pulled from poor stock due to the fact they want their recruitment to be pretty high, even if they can arm them with the finest the High lords can grant them.

And the thing they are best at? Killing other space marines, unlike space wolves having the best scouts, the best psykers (that aren't real psykers hurrr), the best fighters, their fighters can whip everyone in both the Imperium, Chaos, and Xenos while being drunk off poisons from their planet and yet still be the good guys, yet at the same time be conflicted over murdering other marines for being the Emporers lapdog.

The Minotaurs best thing? Killing space marines, which is actually represented in some manner, the only other time we've seen them fight much else is Necrons and they had backup.

@Deadshot. The BoM got a bit of a rewrite in the new dex. Calgar does much better against Swarmy the first time. Is in good enough shape afterward to command the fleet action, destroying the hive fleet. He then hunts down the swarmlord and kills it with his "bare hands".

Quite a bit more impressive than before (someone thinks Calgar is their Mary Sue methinks).