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Hello
Just got new SM codex, and looked at 2 centurion variants.
Assault centurions look cool on pics, but gamewise they look lame :
Pricy, slow cc unit that can't deep strike and is pain to transport; also they have few attacks.
So are they new mutilators, i.e. never-to-be-seen unit that is in all respects outshined by it's ranger counterpart?

Most likely, but they are still far better then actual mutilators.

Centurions have a ranged attack, but Mutilators have a better variety of CC weapons for different targets, and are better at getting close to the enemy by Deep Striking, whereas Centurions have to foot-slog or buy a Land Raider/Storm Raven transport.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Centurions have a ranged attack, but Mutilators have a better variety of CC weapons for different targets, and are better at getting close to the enemy by Deep Striking, whereas Centurions have to foot-slog or buy a Land Raider/Storm Raven transport.

Better variety? The S9/AP2/Armourbane at initiative beats out most of the options on the Mutilators. They'll even strike before Mutilators who either have to hit them with AP3 (to strike at same time), or AP2 (at either S5 AP2, or S8 AP2, both at I1)

Not to mention being able to charge through cover.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Centurions have a ranged attack, but Mutilators have a better variety of CC weapons for different targets, and are better at getting close to the enemy by Deep Striking, whereas Centurions have to foot-slog or buy a Land Raider/Storm Raven transport.

when you have a S9 AP2 Armourbane at initiave... why would you want anything else for melee?

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Centurions have a ranged attack, but Mutilators have a better variety of CC weapons for different targets, and are better at getting close to the enemy by Deep Striking, whereas Centurions have to foot-slog or buy a Land Raider/Storm Raven transport.

when you have a S9 AP2 Armourbane at initiave... why would you want anything else for melee?

As well as the fact they can take Landraiders of any type as Dedicated Transports, Mutilators have to take up a heavy support slot for it.

As well as a bigger troop size to fit it.

They are quite different;

the Mutilators have 3 advantages:
- deep strike
- can be taken as single
- invulnerable save
they are also cheaper (consequence of the two 1st points above) as long as you do not use more than 1 or 2 in an unit.

Mutilators can therefore be used as cheap disruption units; drop 2 or 3 single nurgle oblits in the backfield and they can divert fire.

On the contrary, I think assault centurions can be used in two ways:
- dedicated assault unit; they then require a transport which makes them very expensive
- counter assault unit.

Honestly, while I can see a use for mutilators in some builds, I can't really see one for assault centurions given the current state of the game.

Arleucs wrote:
They are quite different;

the Mutilators have 3 advantages:
- deep strike
- can be taken as single
- invulnerable save
they are also cheaper (consequence of the two 1st points above) as long as you do not use more than 1 or 2 in an unit.

Mutilators can therefore be used as cheap disruption units; drop 2 or 3 single nurgle oblits in the backfield and they can divert fire.

On the contrary, I think assault centurions can be used in two ways:
- dedicated assault unit; they then require a transport which makes them very expensive
- counter assault unit.

Honestly, while I can see a use for mutilators in some builds, I can't really see one for assault centurions given the current state of the game.

So...You use a 60+ model simply for diversion? Something so weak that most will simply ignore it? You could termicide for an actual threat that people are forced to deal with.

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Centurions have a ranged attack, but Mutilators have a better variety of CC weapons for different targets, and are better at getting close to the enemy by Deep Striking, whereas Centurions have to foot-slog or buy a Land Raider/Storm Raven transport.

when you have a S9 AP2 Armourbane at initiave... why would you want anything else for melee?

I meant you have your choice of CC weapons such as choosing Mauls for Eldar/Tau etc, Swords for MEQ and so on. For some reason I thought the Siege Drills hit at Initiative 1. If they don't then fair enough, they don't need anything else for CC.

I suspect that Assalult Centurions will almost universally be taken with a transport. They will be one of those things that will take an inordinate amount of fire power to kill (AV 14 or an AV 12 flier) compared to the damage they can do if they get into that assault. On the other hand, the amount of damage they will do in that assault is so great that they cannot be allowed to traverse the table uncontested.

Or, in otherwords, they are a Dreadknight.

With the tiny difference that a dreadknight can teleport, can have fine shooting attacks or if naked cost only as much as 2 centurions with better toughness, same number of wounds and an invul (and can have the sword !!!!!!).

Yes, but that is the role. And it's not like the Land Raider or Storm Chicken doesn't do something else along the way.

Still, if I ever field Centurions, unless there is some sort of special rule in place, they will be Devastators.

Jefffar wrote:
Or, in otherwords, they are a Dreadknight.

Except Dreadknights are actually good. In fact Dreadknights are very good, while Assault Cents are mediocre at best. An assault unit that can't run is a joke if ever I saw one.

Also the role of a Dreadknight and the role of Assault Cents is entirely different, something that their massive difference in speed makes apparent.

To scare the opponent into wasting shots on l them rather than something else more important is a role I suspect both with be really good at.

Assault Centurions are just begging to be converted into the very useful mega-armor nobs.
Mutilators have no such use.

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Assault Centurions are just begging to be converted into the very useful mega-armor nobs.
Mutilators have no such use.

-Matt

+1


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Most likely, but they are still far better then actual mutilators.

true. Neither is very good but assault cents are far far better than mutes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Centurions have a ranged attack, but Mutilators have a better variety of CC weapons for different targets, and are better at getting close to the enemy by Deep Striking, whereas Centurions have to foot-slog or buy a Land Raider/Storm Raven transport.

Better variety? The S9/AP2/Armourbane at initiative beats out most of the options on the Mutilators. They'll even strike before Mutilators who either have to hit them with AP3 (to strike at same time), or AP2 (at either S5 AP2, or S8 AP2, both at I1)

Not to mention being able to charge through cover.

Assault unit that can be swept are generally rather bad. Mutes can be swept, cents cant.

having a sergeant to make and take challenges also makes them a better retinue.


Cents str9 ap2 armorbane at init is better than anything a mute can morph, unless you are fighting Gretchen, in which case lightning claws are the way to go. (still wounds on 2+, but with a reroll)

Aren't the assault centurions specifically made for breaking fortifications, smashing heavy things that can't get away, and shielding infantry behind them for the advance? Obviously, without the ability to run, they won't do much else.

I don't think centurions can be transported in Raven, they are 3 very bulky models, and would not fit into transport capacity12 Raven.

I would use them as a kill me now, or I kill you unit.

Drop them in your opponent's face from a Raven in RF range. 18 TL BS4 S4 shots + flamer will kill a fair bit of infantry, or they Meltagun a Tank.... (+ the SR shots as well, more than enough to keep pressure off the Cents)

they are there, ready to wreck face unless they are removed, with a big scary Flyer still there as well.

Or if you feel really suicidal:

Put the Raven into Hovermode, for a disembark+charge through cover.

Leaves the rest of your army to move about unimpeded until those units are dead

EDIT: expensive as hell itself though...

 Ratliker wrote:
I don't think centurions can be transported in Raven, they are 3 very bulky models, and would not fit into transport capacity12 Raven.

Very bulky units take 3 slots. they'd fit.