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2013/10/01 20:52:09
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
Do the Tea Party actually understand what a government shutdown means?
What do they just expect all public services to cease and a time of relative free-reign in some aspects of life?
Little orphans in the snow
With nowhere to call a home
Start their singing, singing
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That's why they're singing, singing
2013/10/01 21:02:55
Subject: Re:Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
Wait, The Tea Party exists? I thought they whre some bedtime story liberals told their kids "Know you behave or the tea party will make you pay full price for your hospital visit when you break your arm"
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2013/10/01 21:12:11
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
hotsauceman1 wrote: Wait, The Tea Party exists? I thought they whre some bedtime story liberals told their kids "Know you behave or the tea party will make you pay full price for your hospital visit when you break your arm"
They do, they hang out corralled into a little corner set aside for the republican crazies.
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Lt. Coldfire wrote:Seems to me that you should be refereeing and handing out red cards--like a boss.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Wait, The Tea Party exists? I thought they whre some bedtime story liberals told their kids "Know you behave or the tea party will make you pay full price for your hospital visit when you break your arm"
Sometimes I think the Tea Party is an effort by high ranking Republicans to contain the craziest of their lot to prevent them from influencing things that are actually important.
The plan appears to be failing horribly.
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2013/10/01 21:26:27
Subject: Re:Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
Its funny though. With the perception that the Tea Party reps are actually listening to their district majority compare to the rest of not listening.
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2013/10/01 21:27:20
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
hotsauceman1 wrote: Wait, The Tea Party exists? I thought they whre some bedtime story liberals told their kids "Know you behave or the tea party will make you pay full price for your hospital visit when you break your arm"
They do, they hang out corralled into a little corner set aside for the republican crazies.
It's going to be a pretty big corner.
2013/10/01 21:55:38
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
Members of both chambers from both parties have publicly announced they will either refuse their salary or donate their salary to charity during the shutdown.
This is all part of the life and art that is James Franco. It is forcing us to question the artificial barrier between us and government while questioning the conflation of art, media, and the news. How he got all of congress to go along with this bit of performance art I am not quite sure, but that is part of the mystique that is...Franco.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2013/10/02 13:11:36
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
whembly wrote: Look... E... What the Republicans are doing is dumb... I agree. What I'm objecting to this whole crazy pants thing that it's ALL REPUBLCIAN'S FAULT ALL THE TIME defence. Both parties are absolutely refusing to compromise.... so both are culpable.
This sounds like typical Dakka "blame the victim" talk.
Let's say you pre-pay your local gas station for fuel at the pump. You then go out to pump your fuel, but he attendant come son the loudspeaker and says, "I won't let you fuel your SUV until you sign a contract saying you won;t go to another gas station."
You don't want to only go to this one gas station so you refuse.
The attendant then says, "Fine, then you don;t get the gas you already paid for until you are willing to negotiate a new contract."
So, who is the one at fault here? Same essential thing is going on in Congress.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/02 13:24:38
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2013/10/02 13:21:07
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
Everything is going the Republican's way right now.
They forced the standoff. They've backed the Democrats into a corner.
Republicans strike up big PR victories by sliding up next to veterans and those affected by the impasse.
For Democrats to compromise means that they lose key legislation pieces they finally set in place to stopgap measures or defunding of their legislation.
if the White House chooses to act and try to fund the government outside Congressional jurisdiction, the Republicans accuse the President of doing illegal things (which could set up an impeachment vote).
The longer it drags on, the more unfavorable everyone becomes, but the Democrats have more to lose. The Republicans, wounded from the previous presidential election and the very last election cycle, don't really have much more they can sacrifice as a national party. Eventually the ball has to move to the corner of the Democrats to solve this as they control most mechanisms of the government. Failure hurts them more than success at this point.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/02 13:21:40
Voters, by a resounding 3-1 margin, oppose shutting down the government to block the health care law, according to a Quinnipiac poll released Tuesday. And by a 74-17 percent margin, they disapprove of how congressional Republicans have been doing their jobs — the GOP's worst marks ever.
Perhaps they aren't "winning" as much s you think WarOne.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/02 13:26:56
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2013/10/02 13:28:46
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
So many Republican members have spoken out against the strategy that the Tea Party Express sent out a fundraising appeal asking, "With Republicans Like These, Who Needs Democrats?"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/02 13:30:11
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2013/10/02 13:32:39
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
Easy E wrote: From an article in The Week that Ahtman posted in another thread.
Voters, by a resounding 3-1 margin, oppose shutting down the government to block the health care law, according to a Quinnipiac poll released Tuesday. And by a 74-17 percent margin, they disapprove of how congressional Republicans have been doing their jobs — the GOP's worst marks ever.
Perhaps they aren't "winning" as much s you think WarOne.
Oh, I hate them too.
But as crazy as this sounds (now we're getting into Glenn Beck and Matt Ward territory), the Republicans already knew this going into this fight.
Those Banana Republicans
By JOE NOCERA
Published: September 30, 2013 714 Comments
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They say that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Why is it that the Republicans in Congress seem so determined to prove this maxim?
Let’s start with the Affordable Care Act, a k a Obamacare. The exchanges that are at the heart of Obamacare — making it possible for people who are currently uninsured to buy health care — open for business on Tuesday. Ever since the Republicans took control of the House, they have held vote after vote to roll back the law, even while ignoring important business like, say, fixing the Postal Service. I think it’s been 43 times in all — votes that have been utterly pointless, in that the Senate is still run by Democrats, and the law is President Obama’s signature achievement, and there’s no way on God’s green earth it will be repealed.
But never mind. As Oct. 1 has neared — the date both Obamacare kicks in and the government needs to be funded — Republicans moved to another tactic, which was every bit as hopeless. They began demanding that Obamacare be reversed — or at least delayed — as part of any deal to keep the government running. (At one point they had a lengthy wish list that was so implausible it was almost laugh-out-loud funny.)
But to the surprise of absolutely no one, when Republicans added the anti-Obamacare language to the “continuing resolution” designed to finance the government (for all of six weeks!), the Senate quickly rejected the House bill and insisted instead on a continuing resolution that did nothing but what it was supposed to do: fund the government. Republicans, meanwhile, would not back away from their demand that the “C.R.” had to be linked to a delay in Obamacare.
“I see almost no hope of avoiding a government shutdown,” Representative Jim Cooper, a conservative Democrat from Nashville, told me Monday afternoon. It’s possible, of course, that House Republicans will pass a continuing resolution in the wee small hours, after this column has gone to bed. But it’s very unlikely.
And that’s the second way in which Republican strategy seems to have run off the rails. This constant brinkmanship, which Republicans bring on with their unrealistic demands and deadlines, consistently redounds against them. It makes you wonder what they are trying to accomplish.
But, of course, we know what they are trying to accomplish. They are trying to mollify the extremist element of their party, the Tea Party Republicans who vote in primaries and who have succeeded in electing lots of House members and a handful of senators, such as Ted Cruz of Texas and Marco Rubio of Florida.
The House speaker, John Boehner, won’t bring “a clean C.R.” — that is, a continuing resolution without any of the anti-Obamacare language — not because it won’t pass, but because it probably would, which would infuriate the Tea Party wing of his party and jeopardize his leadership post. Indeed, as Boehner well knows, many House Republicans do not want the government to shut down and would probably vote for the Senate’s clean bill if given half a chance. Their unwillingness to speak out against the extreme faction in their party is shameful. And it’s tragic that, at a time when the House desperately needs a strong speaker, it has John Boehner instead.
What was clear on Monday was that if the government does shut down, the Republicans are going to be blamed. All day long, we watched the Democrats, starting with President Obama, make the case that Republican demands were unreasonable, and, indeed, dangerous, given what was at stake. Republicans spent the day on the defensive. Senator Elizabeth Warren, the liberal Democrat from Massachusetts, described Republican tactics to me as “hostage taking.” Harry Reid, the Senate majority leader, told reporters that if “we can’t pass this” — meaning a clean C.R. — “we’re only truly entering a banana republican mind-set.”
I hate the fact that I now know what a “clean C.R.” means. It’s the kind of inside-the-Beltway term that the country only learns about when there is some big crisis in Washington, as there is now. A government that functioned would fight over the budget but would ultimately pass a budget. This government can barely hobble from one C.R. to the next.
A party controlled by its most extreme faction will ultimately be forced back to the center. The Democrats learned that when Walter Mondale was losing to Ronald Reagan, and Michael Dukakis to George H.W. Bush. Now it is the Republicans who don’t seem to understand that their extreme tactics are pleasing a small percentage of their countrymen but alienating everyone else.
Can’t wait for the debt-ceiling crisis. It’s just weeks away.
What stands out for me is what is their endgame? The Op-Ed piece highlights an interesting point:
A party controlled by its most extreme faction will ultimately be forced back to the center. The Democrats learned that when Walter Mondale was losing to Ronald Reagan, and Michael Dukakis to George H.W. Bush. Now it is the Republicans who don’t seem to understand that their extreme tactics are pleasing a small percentage of their countrymen but alienating everyone else.
What is the long term strategy of the Republicans here? What do they really want? Remember that the Tea Partyist members are not the top ranking Republicans leading the party.
WarOne wrote: What is the long term strategy of the Republicans here? What do they really want? Remember that the Tea Partyist members are not the top ranking Republicans leading the party.
You don't need to be in charge to hold the party hostage, you just need to be in the right place at the right time, nor do you need to be more numerous.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2013/10/02 14:29:19
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
Obama and company just have to stick to the Clinton playbook from 1995, and this will all backfire horribly on the GOP. The President has the biggest, most powerful bully pulpit in the world and he'll use it. I'm sure Hilary is giving them pointers.
And in fact the coverage I saw yesterday mostly seemed to be about the GOP shutting down the government, and that will continue IMO. The mainstream Republicans must know this and be anguished about it, but then this is what you get for cozying up to people they shouldn't have.
Obama hammered them and in their desperation they turned to people they didn't fully understand...
gorgon wrote: Obama and company just have to stick to the Clinton playbook from 1995,
Maybe avoid the interns though
The media coverage is mostly Pro-Democrat? No way! That just can't be!
Reality does have that Liberal bias.
Still that's facts for you eh !
Now... imagine a Republican administration doing this.
yeah, it's hard to imagine them closing everything down.
Or cutting foodstamps to 170,000 veterans- not counting the homeless ones of course !
Still it's good to see a congressman take advantage of a situation he played a key role in creating.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/02 15:08:41
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2013/10/02 15:02:40
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
WarOne wrote: What is the long term strategy of the Republicans here? What do they really want? Remember that the Tea Partyist members are not the top ranking Republicans leading the party.
You don't need to be in charge to hold the party hostage, you just need to be in the right place at the right time, nor do you need to be more numerous.
And I wouldn't doubt the Republicans leading the party are looking for a longer term strategy than what Tea Partyists are inciting the party to do.
I'm trying to think what the Republicans have planned one step out from now. They know this kind of political brinksmanship is not popular, but they went along with it anyway. That cannot be their only strategy.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/02 15:13:39
Funny, because if someone in the Obama administration had just let them in, R congresspeople would have been lined up around the block to talk to Fox News correspondents for weeks about how Obama wasn't following the rules, and how little he respected the impact that the 'shutdown' was to have etc etc etc.
Also, who needs more than Fox? They seem to do enough damage on their own, and are quick to tout how big their audience is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/02 15:08:52
2013/10/02 15:19:32
Subject: Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
I'm trying to think what the Republicans have planned one step out from now. They know this kind of political brinksmanship is not popular, but they went along with it anyway. That cannot be their only strategy.
There has been too much violence. Too much pain. But I have an honourable compromise. Just walk away. Give me your pump, the oil, the gasoline, and the whitehouse, and I'll spare your lives. Just walk away and we'll give you a safe passageway in the wastelands. Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror...
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2013/10/02 16:47:24
Subject: Re:Congressional Tea Party talks about the American Government Shutdown: "It's exactly what we wanted!"
cincydooley wrote: The media coverage is mostly Pro-Democrat? No way! That just can't be!
Well that's just it, isn't it? If the GOP believes their liberal media mantra, then clearly they know this won't go well for them.
So does this mean that they don't actually believe it and think they're going to get a fair shake and be able to pin it to Obama and the Dems? Good luck with that.
Or is this about more prudent GOP Congressmen being held hostage by the aforementioned men who just want to watch the world burn? The short-term outlook there isn't so good either, but it's possible the party learns its lesson about extremism and finally moves forward a stronger party.
cincydooley wrote: The media coverage is mostly Pro-Democrat? No way! That just can't be!
Well that's just it, isn't it? If the GOP believes their liberal media mantra, then clearly they know this won't go well for them.
So does this mean that they don't actually believe it and think they're going to get a fair shake and be able to pin it to Obama and the Dems? Good luck with that.
Or is this about more prudent GOP Congressmen being held hostage by the aforementioned men who just want to watch the world burn? The short-term outlook there isn't so good either, but it's possible the party learns its lesson about extremism and finally moves forward a stronger party.
gorgon... riddle me this will ya?
This is the World War I memorial:
Now... this, is the World War II memorial: What's the difference?
Simple, really: There are Honor Flights of vets scheduled to see the latter but not the former.
This is about the fact that a lot of people are coming to see the WWII Memorial, and the Administration is playing politics with them.
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