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I don't know about you guys, buy i find this thread REALLY interesting to read for some reason, i guess because i know what some TFG's are like nowadays ( because at my store we're all very nice, there are even female gamers ). I must confess i do have a cheese list, but it was created purely for the destruction of TFG's... i have taken an oath to never use it in any other games, i use my other list, the fun list, the friendly list! Although if i find someone damaging any of my models deliberately i'll put a ramrod up their rectum because ALL my models are heavily converted... That too was an oath.

I think i mentioned this one before, but oh well, i had this little frakkin kid (bout' 12 years old i'd say) about 3 years ago rant on about how GK's are the most powerful and are superior to IG, the other thing is that this little boy seemed to love dreadknights, i voiced my opinion in that i thought they are rather odd looking in that they look like baby carriers, He complimented my face by saying it too, resembled a baby carrier... I just rolled my eyes, and went back to browsing orks. :| Honestly, my experience with the fanbase of warhammer are some of the nicest people you could hope to meet, dakkadakka is full of some lovely people for example! This thread has a lot of good people too, but unfortunately it pains me knowing that there are TFG's out there disturbing the fun...and the fluff, the poor fluff...

Wasn't the "your face looks like a baby carrier" on here a few pages back? Or is this some common insult among the young ones? Could swear I saw that somewhere recently.

 doc1234 wrote:
Wasn't the "your face looks like a baby carrier" on here a few pages back? Or is this some common insult among the young ones? Could swear I saw that somewhere recently.

"Well your face looks like [Object]" is a fairly standard tool used for insults. Similar to "So does your mother."

 Zed wrote:

 doc1234 wrote:
Wasn't the "your face looks like a baby carrier" on here a few pages back? Or is this some common insult among the young ones? Could swear I saw that somewhere recently.

"Well your face looks like [Object]" is a fairly standard tool used for insults. Similar to "So does your mother."

Specifically meant the baby carrier, but fair enough! Just tickled me it came up again, deja vu even

I played a 2v2 game against to kids, amybe 12 and 15 years old, the other da. The younger one was nice and wellbehaved but the other one wa realy annoying. The game was 750 points per player but this guy, who played tyranids, had only counted up a 500 point list despite having the extra 250 points with him and forced everyone else to play 500 points as well. From the start of the game he was complaining that his list didin't stand a chance against us, I was playing tau and my team mate IG, despite his list being two tervigons and 30 termagants. I know he has been playing in the store for a year or so but he still didn't know all the rules, even from his own codex such as if more termagants are spawned than one has models the excess is destroyed and he had no clue about the backlash from tervigons dying. When I tried explaining the part about excess models he got so angry that we just let him use some unpainted guardians as proxies just to shut him up. At one point he even tried to stack models on top of each other so that more gants could shoot at me when he rolled quite low for his test to get up to the second floor and there wasn't enough room to place more models than two.

The most fun part of the game though was when my team was planning how to win the battle and the 'nid player starts complaing that it's not very nice to plan how to kill his models before the game has even started.

I know I wasn't overly friendly to him after the the first turn either but I still played through the game, didn't insult him and tried to explain the rules to him.

Mostly I pitied the eldar player on his team though that was getting totally dominated by the older guy and when he made tactically sound decisions the other started complaing about his moves and calling him stupid.

 Dantioch wrote:
I . At one point he even tried to stack models on top of each other so that more gants could shoot at me when he rolled quite low for his test to get up to the second floor and there wasn't enough room to place more models than two.

i remember a kid that did this once with orks so i let him do it then missile launcher extra hits for me

Had another game last weekend where the guy, though not freaking out or anything, was one of the cockiest and most stuck up individuals I have ever met. That, and the fact that he tried to makeup rules the entire game and got offended and mad whenever I pointed out the flaws, kind of a WAAC player. Over the course of the game:

-I was going to playtest and Mechdar list however my opponente, who was Tau demanded that it be a "friendly game" and I said sure. He then proceeded to bring out x2 Riptides (x1 Ion Accelerator and x1 Heavy Burst Cannon with Earth Caste Pilot Array), Fire Warriors ect. aka a basic tournament Tau gunline list in a 1000pt. game. Now my store is competitive so I was not annoyed by that, but by his whining when I placed x3 Wave Serpents on the table claiming "its not a tournament". I calmly pointed out how his list was very close to a tournament list and he shut up after that.

-He deployed with the Burst Cannon Riptide on the table and seeing this I decided to place my x1 Fire Prism on the table as his Ion Accelerator was in reserve. During his first turn he then claimed that "oh I meant to put the other one on, I thought the Ion accelerator was the Heavy Burst Cannon" despite the fact he has been playing Tau his whole 40k career . However it being a "friendly game" I allowed it. Then it sniped my Fire Prism on the first turn...was not to thrilled but kept my cool.

-He claimed that Au Va could join with a squad of Fire Warriors (not an IC so he cant) and my Wave Serpent I was playtesting his Eldar hit him with his Serpent Shield ignoring the AP ward save. After I said I wiped out his squad he started to look quite angry and offended saying he knows his book and knows Au Va can join a squad of Fire Warriors, after I made him look it up he then claimed that it would not be fair to play the rest of the game that way and demanded I let him keep him in a squad of Fire Warriors (it was supposed to be a "Friendly Game" so again I allowed it).

Those were the big ones by mainly his cocky, nose in the air attitude is what bothered me over the course of the game, however that all changed when I was able to squeeze out a draw at the last second! He then tried to say he won because of kill points where I calmly mentioned I would have had Slay the Warlord, First Blood and the additional Ethereal Killpoint if we were playing it "as it should have been". He then got all huffy, packed up and stormed outside to "get some air". Not going to be playing him ever again unless its a tournament.

 gmaleron wrote:
snip

If you get him in a tournament, please bring up "But it's not a tournament...oh wait" or something as you grind him under heel. Can't stand people weaseling like that.

When I first got into Warhammer I was amazed at how much whining there was when people brought well-made competitive lists compared to other games I was familiar with. Sure, when someone brings a top tier deck to a locals in Yu-Gi-Oh they might get a bit of flak for it, depending on how competitive the playerbase is there, but nowhere near the degree of shaming and negativity you see with a 40k player bringing Wraithwing or Triptide.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
When I first got into Warhammer I was amazed at how much whining there was when people brought well-made competitive lists compared to other games I was familiar with. Sure, when someone brings a top tier deck to a locals in Yu-Gi-Oh they might get a bit of flak for it, depending on how competitive the playerbase is there, but nowhere near the degree of shaming and negativity you see with a 40k player bringing Wraithwing or Triptide.

That's not a problem with the players 'just' whining. That's a problem with the game balance.
I don't know about YuGiOh but compared to other tabletop games people shame and complain about 'those' lists so much because the game is built in such a way that it is almost impossible for someone playing a 'fluffy' list to win against 'those' lists.

It's pretty much the same in Yu-Gi-Oh, at least when I played. The only time someone with a top tier deck would lose to a low tier deck was when they were severely outplayed or incredibly unlucky. 40k players act like imbalance is unique to Warhammer and it really isn't. Personally, I find it much easier to compete with semi-competitive lists in 40k than I ever did playing second tier decks in Yu-Gi-Oh.

I think we can all agree here "inbalence" = challenge

Think the problem is semi obvious frome any of the pther threads on here. Its a none competative (as according to gw) and fairly sloppy ruleset ("we'er a model company not a game company") being hammered into a competative environment that somehow the rules encourage (because even playing fluffy there are some options that if you take you'll get destroyed by other fluffy lists). In honesty it's like chess with the option to leave pieces out. If you bring the queen and bishops you're WAAC, if you don't you're fluffy but now watch as everyone who is playing with a full set destroys you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and tsung, imbalance isn't a challange, it's lazyness when it gets to a certain point.

I agree with both of you, actually. To a certain extend, imbalance adds variety and challenge to a game, making it fun and interesting. Super Smash Bros. would be a much less engaging game if it was perfectly balanced, Still, at the same time, you do want things so overly imbalanced that it's completely broken. This video is relevant:

 gmaleron wrote:
-He claimed that Au Va could join with a squad of Fire Warriors (not an IC so he cant) and my Wave Serpent I was playtesting his Eldar hit him with his Serpent Shield ignoring the AP ward save. After I said I wiped out his squad he started to look quite angry and offended saying he knows his book and knows Au Va can join a squad of Fire Warriors, after I made him look it up he then claimed that it would not be fair to play the rest of the game that way and demanded I let him keep him in a squad of Fire Warriors (it was supposed to be a "Friendly Game" so again I allowed it).

That's just hilarious. What was his reason for how it "wouldn't be fair" if you didn't let him cheat?

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I agree with both of you, actually. To a certain extend, imbalance adds variety and challenge to a game, making it fun and interesting. Super Smash Bros. would be a much less engaging game if it was perfectly balanced, Still, at the same time, you do want things so overly imbalanced that it's completely broken. This video is relevant:

That was probably one of the most interesting videos I have ever seen. It actually helps in looking at 40k from a different perspective.

That was incredibly interesting, thank you.

We had a new guy here who played an eldar+tau army. He lived more then 10 years in London and talked about how big collection is , but we never actualy seen him play for like 3 weeks. He was always giving the I know better vibes. So Last month he shows up with his tau+eldar army and it is full of FW stuff and counts as FW stuff , like the new riptide and his army books on an I-pad . So we inform him that FW is illegal and that to play here one need a physical copy of the book and not an e-book , because we had problems in the past when people would hack them and edit for better rules or cheaper upgrades . He starts raving like a maniac about how in UK he could play FW and how it is legal etc and we just look at him as , if he were insane , because everyone knows FW is no legal . The store owner notices the shouting , which isn't hard because people are always silent while playing here and asks him to be cool and that if he wants he can play his FW stuff as counts as normal eldar and tau stuff , because he is new . He even let him play with the e-book codex .But the guy doesn't stop he keeps getting louder and louder ,and that is not ok , because the shop is near a bank and in the past the Bank people were known to call police , if people were too loud . So the shop owner tells the eldar guy , that if he doesn't lower his voice , he won't be able to play here . The guy insults him and starts packing his stuff, but he is so pumped up that he flips his case and all his resin models land face down on the floor followed by a metal carring case. He starts yelling that now we all have to pay for a new FW army for him .But people at the store know better. Two guys pack him under his arms take him out another takes his carring case and the shop owner takes a broom and a shovel and leaves his resin rests in a pile in front of the shop and closes the door. the guy stars yelling as if has was on drugs , which actualy was kind of a scary . Soon police shows up and takes him away , which gave us a good laugh .

Two guys pack him under his arms take him out another takes his carring case and the shop owner takes a broom and a shovel and leaves his resin rests in a pile in front of the shop and closes the door. the guy stars yelling as if has was on drugs , which actualy was kind of a scary . Soon police shows up and takes him away , which gave us a good laugh .

o.0

FW is legal, though.

 thenoobbomb wrote:

Two guys pack him under his arms take him out another takes his carring case and the shop owner takes a broom and a shovel and leaves his resin rests in a pile in front of the shop and closes the door. the guy stars yelling as if has was on drugs , which actualy was kind of a scary . Soon police shows up and takes him away , which gave us a good laugh .

o.0

FW is legal, though.

Well, even the "40k Approved" stuff is still an "as long as your opponent agrees" kinda thing.

@Makumba awaiting for Peregrine to tell you how FW is legal

Ok back to topic I've had my few times:

1) I went to a GW (you can already see where this is going cant you?) and back when I played fantasy as TK got a game with a kid, who played dwarfs who told me he knew a general good amount of the rules... he knew bosh all, he didn't even know how to move as I was explaining the game to him two guys came over who were regulars and basically started backseat gaming him. He won in the end did not even get within charge distance because of his gunline and cannons. He then started boasting on "how he pawned me like a noob" (Yeah at least I knew how my units worked ) which just irritated me and seeing that I was there the whole day. Now I only go to that GW if my friend I know is there and is willing for a game.

2) last tournament I played in I had an opponent who was just being plain rude to me, even a friend who was watching the game was talking to me about it (being semi-Asperger's I find it hard to tell if someone is being genuinely rude or just playing around it was until my friend stated talking to me about it I found that they were being genuine, which is putting me off competitive 40k play for me atm).

Makumba wrote:
We had a new guy here who played an eldar+tau army. He lived more then 10 years in London and talked about how big collection is , but we never actualy seen him play for like 3 weeks. He was always giving the I know better vibes. So Last month he shows up with his tau+eldar army and it is full of FW stuff and counts as FW stuff , like the new riptide and his army books on an I-pad . So we inform him that FW is illegal and that to play here one need a physical copy of the book and not an e-book , because we had problems in the past when people would hack them and edit for better rules or cheaper upgrades . He starts raving like a maniac about how in UK he could play FW and how it is legal etc and we just look at him as , if he were insane , because everyone knows FW is no legal . The store owner notices the shouting , which isn't hard because people are always silent while playing here and asks him to be cool and that if he wants he can play his FW stuff as counts as normal eldar and tau stuff , because he is new . He even let him play with the e-book codex .But the guy doesn't stop he keeps getting louder and louder ,and that is not ok , because the shop is near a bank and in the past the Bank people were known to call police , if people were too loud . So the shop owner tells the eldar guy , that if he doesn't lower his voice , he won't be able to play here . The guy insults him and starts packing his stuff, but he is so pumped up that he flips his case and all his resin models land face down on the floor followed by a metal carring case. He starts yelling that now we all have to pay for a new FW army for him .But people at the store know better. Two guys pack him under his arms take him out another takes his carring case and the shop owner takes a broom and a shovel and leaves his resin rests in a pile in front of the shop and closes the door. the guy stars yelling as if has was on drugs , which actualy was kind of a scary . Soon police shows up and takes him away , which gave us a good laugh .

I think i've met this guy in london, always had FW tau and shouted at me for my.army theme being "distasteful" because he is polish and its a communist army. From what i remember he was pretty large too...

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:

Two guys pack him under his arms take him out another takes his carring case and the shop owner takes a broom and a shovel and leaves his resin rests in a pile in front of the shop and closes the door. the guy stars yelling as if has was on drugs , which actualy was kind of a scary . Soon police shows up and takes him away , which gave us a good laugh .

o.0

FW is legal, though.

Well, even the "40k Approved" stuff is still an "as long as your opponent agrees" kinda thing.

So is your average game, you gotta 'agree to game'. 40k Approved is legal.

 tau tse tung wrote:


I think i've met this guy in london, always had FW tau and shouted at me for my.army theme being "distasteful" because he is polish and its a communist army. From what i remember he was pretty large too...

Could be he was large.

Makumba wrote:

 tau tse tung wrote:


I think i've met this guy in london, always had FW tau and shouted at me for my.army theme being "distasteful" because he is polish and its a communist army. From what i remember he was pretty large too...

Could be he was large.

Good, that guy was a complete spanker, shouted at my ex for picking up one of those FW models, he was known for being like that in multiple shops

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I agree with both of you, actually. To a certain extend, imbalance adds variety and challenge to a game, making it fun and interesting. Super Smash Bros. would be a much less engaging game if it was perfectly balanced, Still, at the same time, you do want things so overly imbalanced that it's completely broken. This video is relevant:

They are so goddamned right with that video.

One of the people on the team seems to be a woman , so they can only be partly right .

 Melissia wrote:

Spoiler:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I agree with both of you, actually. To a certain extend, imbalance adds variety and challenge to a game, making it fun and interesting. Super Smash Bros. would be a much less engaging game if it was perfectly balanced, Still, at the same time, you do want things so overly imbalanced that it's completely broken. This video is relevant:

They are so goddamned right with that video.

Yup! I raised the same point in a different thread that was in Dakka Discussions and was shot down over it. But the thing is that intentional imbalance is...well intentional. It drives us to try and overcome challenges, it keeps the game from getting stale and it generally gives them room to introduce or play with new mechanics all the time. It's honestly better for a system than perfect balance is in my opinion even if it does lead to the occasional issue of players crying "cheese".

Well there is a small difference in buying a new LoL champion or power lvling a new class in wow , compering to being forced to either rebuild or abandon and buy a new army for w40k . Up till codex tau playin IG was fun , post tau and eldar , it doesn't even make sense , because nothing works against them . mecha doesn't , aegis blob builds don't , they kill flyers faster the IG can bring them on the board . So the only option is either to buy a tau/eldar army or buy demons , one can't just add a unit or two to make the army tick again . It clearly shows in tournament placments of IG or SW or BAs. they are at the bottom and if they were fixable through own codex or through ally people would be playing those options and placing higher .

Makumba wrote:
Well there is a small difference in buying a new LoL champion or power lvling a new class in wow , compering to being forced to either rebuild or abandon and buy a new army for w40k . Up till codex tau playin IG was fun , post tau and eldar , it doesn't even make sense , because nothing works against them . mecha doesn't , aegis blob builds don't , they kill flyers faster the IG can bring them on the board . So the only option is either to buy a tau/eldar army or buy demons , one can't just add a unit or two to make the army tick again . It clearly shows in tournament placments of IG or SW or BAs. they are at the bottom and if they were fixable through own codex or through ally people would be playing those options and placing higher .

To be fair, LoL has a quicker turn around on changed than GW could ever have because of the difference in mediums. Even MtG isn't perfectly balanced though, and that takes time and money to adjust to changes too. Not to mention if you play modern the cost of every new block released.