Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The books have established that Leman Russ at his best can beat Magnus near his worst, we have no idea if any of the other Primarchs were capable of beating Magnus in a fair fight, with both well-rested, focussed, and Magnus not having just destroyed nearly half an army with mind bullets.

Wow, fist time ever I see this thread...

I like the answer by Aaron Dembski-Bowden: they are all at a similar level, they just have good and bad days.

If I am to pick one, Horus is stated many times to be "better" than his brothers.

 Wilytank wrote:
All around, Horus. Brilliant leader pre-Heresy. Skilled in combat too, he's killed Sanguinius and is said to be one of the only other primarchs to be Angron in a duel. And mortally wounded the Emperor himself.

He had a big advantage against Sanguinius though. Sanguinius had been fighting quite heavily beforehand and Horus had all the powers of the warp to use.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 da001 wrote:
Wow, fist time ever I see this thread...

I like the answer by Aaron Dembski-Bowden: they are all at a similar level, they just have good and bad days.

If I am to pick one, Horus is stated many times to be "better" than his brothers.

True, but in Fear to Tread its made clear that Sanguinius is the other Primarch he is worried about in terms of who could be better than him. When the Chaos powers want to try and turn Sanguinius to the other side Horus basically says no and that he wants him killed instead. It distinctly says that Horus is worried that Sanguinius could end up replacing him as favoured son of Choas if he was to be turned.

I'm just going to say Angron because the only 40k book I've read so far is Betrayer.

 DarthOvious wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 da001 wrote:
Wow, fist time ever I see this thread...

I like the answer by Aaron Dembski-Bowden: they are all at a similar level, they just have good and bad days.

If I am to pick one, Horus is stated many times to be "better" than his brothers.

True, but in Fear to Tread its made clear that Sanguinius is the other Primarch he is worried about in terms of who could be better than him. When the Chaos powers want to try and turn Sanguinius to the other side Horus basically says no and that he wants him killed instead. It distinctly says that Horus is worried that Sanguinius could end up replacing him as favoured son of Choas if he was to be turned.

True.
So it is Horus > Sanguinius > anyone else? With Sanguinius being so close it is almost a draw?
Also, at some point Horus says that Sanguinius should have been the Warmaster. He thinks himself inferior to the Angel.

Russ>Cheesecake.

@raiden
I don´t want to be pedantic here but... could you please fix the names of the primarchs?
Roubute Guillium -> Roboute Guilliman
Sangiunius -> Sanguinius
Angorn -> Angron

Looky Likey wrote:

The Lion held himself back far too often, but he wasn't the only one to do this, doesn't help that he comes across as a bit of a numpty in the HH books.

A bit of a numpty? He seems entirely devoid of empathy and kills his men for disagreeing with him. He also manages to give Perturabo the biggest guns anyone has ever heard of, just after he beat the sons of horus.

Is there any primarch who just comes across as awesomsauce anymore?

(not that I'm complaining - I like it that way)

 da001 wrote:
True.
So it is Horus > Sanguinius > anyone else? With Sanguinius being so close it is almost a draw?
Also, at some point Horus says that Sanguinius should have been the Warmaster. He thinks himself inferior to the Angel.

Context isn't made clear in what way he considered himself inferior though. It could be anything including that perhaps he just thought that Sanguinius was a better leader or more well liked with the other Primarchs. Sanguinius is the one Primarch who was mostly liked by the others. Ironically he was the Primarch made to keep all the other Primarchs together but alas he failed in that task. However it doesn't help very much when the Primarchs don't get to see each other very much.

I agree very much with the idea that all the Primarchs are supposedly on equal footing, each bringing something important of their own to the fray. This all down to the fact that when the Emperor made the Primarchs he divded his own DNA into 20 different distinct genomes and then used them to create the Primarchs, each bearing different characteristics of the Emperor. So I see this as cannon to suggest that they were all important in some fashion. Maybe with the exception of Curze because he is considered to be a failure due to the suggestion that he is insane.

I voted Sanguinius myself but then I am a Blood Angels player and I like his character very much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PredaKhaine wrote:
Russ>Cheesecake.

Russ > Bacon

Hope I'm not being too heretical there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PredaKhaine wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:

The Lion held himself back far too often, but he wasn't the only one to do this, doesn't help that he comes across as a bit of a numpty in the HH books.

A bit of a numpty? He seems entirely devoid of empathy and kills his men for disagreeing with him. He also manages to give Perturabo the biggest guns anyone has ever heard of, just after he beat the sons of horus.

Is there any primarch who just comes across as awesomsauce anymore?

(not that I'm complaining - I like it that way)

Sanguinius does have the gentic flaw but then again he fights it all the way to his grave.

 DarthOvious wrote:

I agree very much with the idea that all the Primarchs are supposedly on equal footing, each bringing something important of their own to the fray. This all down to the fact that when the Emperor made the Primarchs he divded his own DNA into 20 different distinct genomes and then used them to create the Primarchs, each bearing different characteristics of the Emperor. So I see this as cannon to suggest that they were all important in some fashion. Maybe with the exception of Curze because he is considered to be a failure due to the suggestion that he is insane.

I would add Angron (turned wrong by the Butcher´s Nails) and perhaps primarchs II and XI. Or perhaps the Emperor foresaw the Heresy and everything was going according to his plans (I like this option).

 da001 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

I agree very much with the idea that all the Primarchs are supposedly on equal footing, each bringing something important of their own to the fray. This all down to the fact that when the Emperor made the Primarchs he divded his own DNA into 20 different distinct genomes and then used them to create the Primarchs, each bearing different characteristics of the Emperor. So I see this as cannon to suggest that they were all important in some fashion. Maybe with the exception of Curze because he is considered to be a failure due to the suggestion that he is insane.

I would add Angron (turned wrong by the Butcher´s Nails) and perhaps primarchs II and XI. Or perhaps the Emperor foresaw the Heresy and everything was going according to his plans (I like this option).

Although Curze is a failure I still consider him pretty awesome because he is evil batman.

 DarthOvious wrote:

 da001 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

I agree very much with the idea that all the Primarchs are supposedly on equal footing, each bringing something important of their own to the fray. This all down to the fact that when the Emperor made the Primarchs he divded his own DNA into 20 different distinct genomes and then used them to create the Primarchs, each bearing different characteristics of the Emperor. So I see this as cannon to suggest that they were all important in some fashion. Maybe with the exception of Curze because he is considered to be a failure due to the suggestion that he is insane.

I would add Angron (turned wrong by the Butcher´s Nails) and perhaps primarchs II and XI. Or perhaps the Emperor foresaw the Heresy and everything was going according to his plans (I like this option).

Although Curze is a failure I still consider him pretty awesome because he is evil batman.

I think Curze's problems were environmental - if he'd landed on Macragge, I think he'd have come out a little differently

I love the contradiction of Curze - he hates himself and he hates the emperor and he isn't sure which he hates most.
Its why he tries to goad Vulkan into killing him. He knows he doesn't die yet so he can act with impunity - while at the same time, he doesn't give a gak if he does have it wrong and Vulkan kills him.
It all comes down to whether you think the emp meant him to be like that - AFAIK, he's the only primarch to conquer a world without firing a shot


PS
Russ>Superman riding a T-rex

PredaKhaine wrote:
A bit of a numpty? He seems entirely devoid of empathy and kills his men for disagreeing with him. He also manages to give Perturabo the biggest guns anyone has ever heard of, just after he beat the sons of horus.

Is there any primarch who just comes across as awesomsauce anymore?

(not that I'm complaining - I like it that way)

I really don't like the way a number of them are portrayed, they are meant to be so much more than normal marines who are so much more than normal humans, they shouldn't be showing the Primarch's thought processes as it should be alien to us but instead they are shown as fallible.

PredaKhaine wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 da001 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

I agree very much with the idea that all the Primarchs are supposedly on equal footing, each bringing something important of their own to the fray. This all down to the fact that when the Emperor made the Primarchs he divded his own DNA into 20 different distinct genomes and then used them to create the Primarchs, each bearing different characteristics of the Emperor. So I see this as cannon to suggest that they were all important in some fashion. Maybe with the exception of Curze because he is considered to be a failure due to the suggestion that he is insane.

I would add Angron (turned wrong by the Butcher´s Nails) and perhaps primarchs II and XI. Or perhaps the Emperor foresaw the Heresy and everything was going according to his plans (I like this option).

Although Curze is a failure I still consider him pretty awesome because he is evil batman.

I think Curze's problems were environmental - if he'd landed on Macragge, I think he'd have come out a little differently

I love the contradiction of Curze - he hates himself and he hates the emperor and he isn't sure which he hates most.
Its why he tries to goad Vulkan into killing him. He knows he doesn't die yet so he can act with impunity - while at the same time, he doesn't give a gak if he does have it wrong and Vulkan kills him.
It all comes down to whether you think the emp meant him to be like that - AFAIK, he's the only primarch to conquer a world without firing a shot


PS
Russ>Superman riding a T-rex

I think Curze knowing how he was going to die was also played a big part in his approach to life, if you knew how you'd die and die in a ignominious way then wouldn't that affect how you act?

The new book seems to be saying that Curze and his Legion were intended to be retribution and punishment deliverers, used to make an example. They sort of went a bit too far though, and at the same time as enjoying it, Curze hated himself and his sons for it all, at the same time as a lot of his sons hated him whilst others retained the typical fanatical loyalty. Makes you wonder what would have actually happened if he had landed on another world...Although his visions would not have helped him on any world - again though, on Nostramo in particular, a world where he would have constantly been seeing both physically and through his visions atrocity after atrocity carried out on humans, by each other...Well, it's not hard to assume that 1) he took it as a default way to deal with problems and 2)it messed him up a bit.

On the topic of this thread, if we're not going for strictly straight 1v1 fights - I'd give it to either Magnus, who I would think could blast someone out of existence before they even see him coming, or one of the more underhanded Primarchs - one of the ones who doesn't give a damn about the whole dueling honour thing and would happily rig circumstances to be in their favour.

Sanguinius is bad ass with a modified DNA for rage and fearlessness.

Horus as he killed how many other Primarchs? And he mortally wounded/killed the Emperor before falling himself.

Horus killed Sanguinius. When beefed up to the eyeballs. And Sangy was knackered from slapping bloodthirsters and keeper of secrets down.
The emperor was holding back when he fought Horus so it doesn't count for as much - ol empy had to wait until he was sure Horus was too far gone before he psy blasted him out of existence utterly.
Fulgrim killed Guilliman (technically) and Ferrus Manus
Curze has beaten up four primarchs so far.
Guilliman killed Alpharius. But it might have been Omegon. Or just another legionary (damn you GW retcons!)

So who's the most powerful primarch by that?
(Still not Curze though ...)

Russ>T-rex riding superman.

 PredaKhaine wrote:
I think Curze's problems were environmental - if he'd landed on Macragge, I think he'd have come out a little differently

Perhaps. Its just a suggestion that is made about Curze that he was insane and that there was something wrong with his geneseed. Its not actually established fact. So there is room fro Curze just being handed a tough life and he wasn't strong enough to deal with it. He did have to raise himself on his own without a family to look after, the same way the Lion did. He also shows considerable resentment to those that were raised with families, this is also shown in Umremebered Empire as well in a particular scene.

I love the contradiction of Curze - he hates himself and he hates the emperor and he isn't sure which he hates most.
Its why he tries to goad Vulkan into killing him. He knows he doesn't die yet so he can act with impunity - while at the same time, he doesn't give a gak if he does have it wrong and Vulkan kills him.

Thats why the suggestion is made inr egards to his sanity. It is considered by some that The Night Haunter is a split personality from Curze in a sense.

It all comes down to whether you think the emp meant him to be like that - AFAIK, he's the only primarch to conquer a world without firing a shot

True, but he conqured it using fear techniques and sliting the throats of statesmen and hanging them upside down. Although he did this with a consideration of thinking them to be immoral. Part of his own self loathing stems from the fact that he thinks he has turned out the same as those he previously hunted.

PS
Russ>Superman riding a T-rex

 PredaKhaine wrote:

Fulgrim killed Guilliman (technically) and Ferrus Manus

Technically, at least to the HH books, a daemon possessing Fulgrim killed Manus. We need to get to the final Fulgrim vs. Guilliman battle in HH to see if its Fulgrim or the Daemon in charge at that point in that version of the fluff.

I'll put 50p on it being Fulgrim in charge - he's a big snake demon in the heresy now, and he's given the demon sword away to Lucius IIRC.








Russ>bears riding sharks with machine guns

 Very Superstitious wrote:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
The lion is a normal primarch and he's winning?!
WTF MAN!!!
That's just wrong. If your answer is not Sanguinius, Angron, or Magnus you need to read more.

The Lion grew up killing demons on Caliban with his bare hands like it was nothing

1. They were beasts, not Demons
2. He HELPED a butt load of knights do it, one person can't kill a planet of monsters

Ok, back on topic, I have 3 favorites, 2 now chaos and 1 loyalist
1. Fulgrim, because he is literally imprisoned in his brain juices. (pre tenticles)
2. Horus, for his hair. (pre heresy)

1. VULKAN cause I'm slightly pyromaniac
Also, just checked the wiki, DORN IS DEAD?!?!

 the shrouded lord wrote:

 Very Superstitious wrote:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
The lion is a normal primarch and he's winning?!
WTF MAN!!!
That's just wrong. If your answer is not Sanguinius, Angron, or Magnus you need to read more.

The Lion grew up killing demons on Caliban with his bare hands like it was nothing

1. They were beasts, not Demons
2. He HELPED a butt load of knights do it, one person can't kill a planet of monsters

Ok, back on topic, I have 3 favorites, 2 now chaos and 1 loyalist
1. Fulgrim, because he is literally imprisoned in his brain juices. (pre tenticles)
2. Horus, for his hair. (pre heresy)

1. VULKAN cause I'm slightly pyromaniac
Also, just checked the wiki, DORN IS DEAD?!?!

1)they were beasts, heavily corrupted by chaos to be much more powerful than they were originally. Kinda demon beasts.
2)The Order wasn't the biggest order of knights when he started iirc - but they did have Luther so they may have been able to do it anyway so you could well have a point
1)Fulgrim is released from his own brain and making up for lost time. As a snake demon thing
2)Have you got a pic of Horus's do?

And yeah - Dorn dies after the heresy in a boarding action against a chaos ship. Although thats got a little murkier now with people saying they've only found his hand. I don't know where that came from.

 PredaKhaine wrote:

1)they were beasts, heavily corrupted by chaos to be much more powerful than they were originally. Kinda demon beasts.

Mutated beasts and actual "daemon beasts" are two separate things.

They were mutated, using the power of chaos (same as demons) and they had a 'malign intelligence' (same as deamons) (iirc, there are parts of those books where the protagonists were 'staring into the beasts eye or some such) and they killed because they enjoyed it (same as deamons) - but not quite as they had mortal origins and not warp origins. Thats why I said 'kinda'

 PredaKhaine wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:

 Very Superstitious wrote:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:


And yeah - Dorn dies after the heresy in a boarding action against a chaos ship. Although thats got a little murkier now with people saying they've only found his hand. I don't know where that came from.

\

Its because they found an escape pod w/ Dorns gear, they "found" a skeletal remain, but are unsure if it is Dorn or not.

 raiden wrote:


Its because they found an escape pod w/ Dorns gear, they "found" a skeletal remain, but are unsure if it is Dorn or not.

Do you know which book that was in?
I've definitely not read that one

 PredaKhaine wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:

 Very Superstitious wrote:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:
The lion is a normal primarch and he's winning?!
WTF MAN!!!
That's just wrong. If your answer is not Sanguinius, Angron, or Magnus you need to read more.

The Lion grew up killing demons on Caliban with his bare hands like it was nothing

1. They were beasts, not Demons
2. He HELPED a butt load of knights do it, one person can't kill a planet of monsters

Ok, back on topic, I have 3 favorites, 2 now chaos and 1 loyalist
1. Fulgrim, because he is literally imprisoned in his brain juices. (pre tenticles)
2. Horus, for his hair. (pre heresy)

1. VULKAN cause I'm slightly pyromaniac
Also, just checked the wiki, DORN IS DEAD?!?!

1)they were beasts, heavily corrupted by chaos to be much more powerful than they were originally. Kinda demon beasts.
2)The Order wasn't the biggest order of knights when he started iirc - but they did have Luther so they may have been able to do it anyway so you could well have a point
1)Fulgrim is released from his own brain and making up for lost time. As a snake demon thing
2)Have you got a pic of Horus's do?

And yeah - Dorn dies after the heresy in a boarding action against a chaos ship. Although thats got a little murkier now with people saying they've only found his hand. I don't know where that came from.

Dulgrims off the list. And I feel stupid...

Looky Likey wrote:

 PredaKhaine wrote:

Fulgrim killed Guilliman (technically) and Ferrus Manus

Technically, at least to the HH books, a daemon possessing Fulgrim killed Manus. We need to get to the final Fulgrim vs. Guilliman battle in HH to see if its Fulgrim or the Daemon in charge at that point in that version of the fluff.

This has pretty much been answered has it not? I thought there was a short story detailing that Fulgrim regained control of his body or is it still looking a bit suspicious?

Reflection Crack'd showed that Fulgrim is actually just a massive perv - but that was after the death of Ferrus.

IIRC - Fulgrim went to fight Ferus and the demon blade gave him the final push to kill Ferrus.
Fulgrim was having an 'ermagerd, whatma doin?' moment and the sword decided for him.

fulgrim is possessed by a daemon, the real fulgrim is fighting a losing battle to regain control...