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I have a feeling this this is just flat out no argument broken. It's a t7 6 wound riptide with two guns that are just obscene here are the rules on the guns...Heavy 1 large blast that is str6 ap3 which doesn't seem that bad until the targeted models get bigger...

At very bulky ie bikes/cavalry/jet bikes/ beasts/ and terminators the gun goes to str7 ap3 and causes 2 hits for each model hit, when you go to extremely bulky...

MCs and artillery get hit with str8 ap3 and each hit causes 3 hits.SO you hit an MC with each hit and it takes 6 str8 ap3 hits. As it is a Riptide with a special Nova Reactor, here is where it just gets broken as hell. You can overcharge each gun and fire them both twice. Coupled with marker lights or a command and control node which twin links it, with 4 direct hits you are causing 8 str 7 ap3 hits to Each very bulky and 12 hits to each Extremely bulky model. Hell nova charged the gun will still fire 4 large blast str6 ap3 templates at normal troops. 

Non flying daemons and tyranids are screwed.

It's typical Forgeworld crap. Has to be imbalanced to sell well. Makes me a sad panda when most of the stuff are like this, not in line at all with rest of the models in a codex. Also why our group does not allow FW.

And it isnt competing for a riptide It is a Heavy


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, Experimental rules.

Experimental Rules, keep your shirt on everyone and stop talking out of your behind Mr.Naw

The weapon simply doesn't make sense. If it fires the same size blast, how does a larger creature get hit with more of it? You can't add explosive power based on the size of the target unless you fire multiple times, which the entry kind of implies. I'm not too sure, but there is no reason at all why they could have just made the Pulse Submunition rifle better instead of changing it completely. Or just give us our riptide railguns and leave it at that.

Oh, and this thing is still just as ineffective against terminators as an Ionhead.

I think the idea is that it isn't an explosion blast, but is rather a cluster of sub-munitions - essentially the bigger you are, the more of the smaller munitions hit you.

Does seem a little over the top though! (he says as a Tau player smiling to myself ..... )

 McNinja wrote:
The weapon simply doesn't make sense. If it fires the same size blast, how does a larger creature get hit with more of it? You can't add explosive power based on the size of the target unless you fire multiple times, which the entry kind of implies. I'm not too sure, but there is no reason at all why they could have just made the Pulse Submunition rifle better instead of changing it completely. Or just give us our riptide railguns and leave it at that.

Oh, and this thing is still just as ineffective against terminators as an Ionhead.

Oh I dunno take a 5 man terminator squad deep striking in each model will be hit 8 times if its a direct hit that's 48 hits and probably close to 40 wounds you will fail a few of those saves so its a little more efficient than an ionhead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Speed12 wrote:
I think the idea is that it isn't an explosion blast, but is rather a cluster of sub-munitions - essentially the bigger you are, the more of the smaller munitions hit you.

Does seem a little over the top though! (he says as a Tau player smiling to myself ..... )

Have been putting off a forge world order until now


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Naw wrote:
It's typical Forgeworld crap. Has to be imbalanced to sell well. Makes me a sad panda when most of the stuff are like this, not in line at all with rest of the models in a codex. Also why our group does not allow FW.

And a flying heldrake coming on the board cooking tac marines with no save, daemons with so many psychic powers you need cards to keep track and Necrons having flying troop options isn't unbalanced?

valace2 wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
The weapon simply doesn't make sense. If it fires the same size blast, how does a larger creature get hit with more of it? You can't add explosive power based on the size of the target unless you fire multiple times, which the entry kind of implies. I'm not too sure, but there is no reason at all why they could have just made the Pulse Submunition rifle better instead of changing it completely. Or just give us our riptide railguns and leave it at that.

Oh, and this thing is still just as ineffective against terminators as an Ionhead.

Oh I dunno take a 5 man terminator squad deep striking in each model will be hit 8 times if its a direct hit that's 48 hits and probably close to 40 wounds you will fail a few of those saves so its a little more efficient than an ionhead.

4 times each, surely. Terminators are just Bulky aren't they? Or am I dreaming again?

 Flinty wrote:

valace2 wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
The weapon simply doesn't make sense. If it fires the same size blast, how does a larger creature get hit with more of it? You can't add explosive power based on the size of the target unless you fire multiple times, which the entry kind of implies. I'm not too sure, but there is no reason at all why they could have just made the Pulse Submunition rifle better instead of changing it completely. Or just give us our riptide railguns and leave it at that.

Oh, and this thing is still just as ineffective against terminators as an Ionhead.

Oh I dunno take a 5 man terminator squad deep striking in each model will be hit 8 times if its a direct hit that's 48 hits and probably close to 40 wounds you will fail a few of those saves so its a little more efficient than an ionhead.

4 times each, surely. Terminators are just Bulky aren't they? Or am I dreaming again?

After you Nova Charge the guns they can both fire twice so 4 large blast templates causing 2 hits to each model hit by the templates. This will kill just about anything even models with 2+ saves are going to have a hard time rolling enough saves. Normal units will still fold up under 4 large blast templates. Its horde control at its finest.

4 times each, surely. Terminators are just Bulky aren't they? Or am I dreaming again?

4 times normally I believe (2x2), but 8 if you nova-charge (4x2)...

 Bobthehero wrote:
Experimental Rules, keep your shirt on everyone and stop talking out of your behind Mr.Naw

From what I've seen, the experimental rules are usually a good setup for what is to come. And the rules are stupidly overpowered, 4 large blasts that completely shred almost anything it touches?
It's like a Wraithknight...
with 2 extra ablative wounds.... (which shoot missiles pewpew)
and a better armor save...
OH and a better invulnerable save (Which the Wraithknight needs to buy and give up a weapon for)...
which can be boosted to the crazy good 2+/3++ combo...
At least it can't ignore cover with its shooting (OH WAIT, IT CAN)....
And the army is pretty underpowered so it needs a powerful unit to help bring it in line with the other codexs (HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA)

Yes it's expensive, but its cost does not match the amount of things it can do. I understand you don't think it's overpowered and that's fine. Maybe the rules will change drastically for when it's released,but from what I've seen, that won't be the case.

 felixander wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Experimental Rules, keep your shirt on everyone and stop talking out of your behind Mr.Naw

From what I've seen, the experimental rules are usually a good setup for what is to come. And the rules are stupidly overpowered, 4 large blasts that completely shred almost anything it touches?
It's like a Wraithknight...
with 2 extra ablative wounds.... (which shoot missiles pewpew)
and a better armor save...
OH and a better invulnerable save (Which the Wraithknight needs to buy and give up a weapon for)...
which can be boosted to the crazy good 2+/3++ combo...
At least it can't ignore cover with its shooting (OH WAIT, IT CAN)....
And the army is pretty underpowered so it needs a powerful unit to help bring it in line with the other codexs (HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA)

Yes it's expensive, but its cost does not match the amount of things it can do. I understand you don't think it's overpowered and that's fine. Maybe the rules will change drastically for when it's released,but from what I've seen, that won't be the case.

Its stupidly overpowered especially after you add in the pilot array and a support commander.

Hell this thing doesn't even need to shoot at tanks just using the nova reactor and being within 6" causes a haywire attack.

My gaming group only allows 1 forgeworld model in non apoc games and this will be it going to sub a normal riptide for this beast next week when I game. Thinking of picking up 2 one to use as an R'Varna and 1 to use as O'vesa.

O'Vesa rocks but Riptides are just stupid good.

jeez with this i can now bring my fathomed quintuple riptide list to a whopping 6! (7 if points are willing)

Except many previously overpowered (or incorrectly thought overpowered) have been nerfed significantly over a few iterations.

Either way, significant over reaction until we see the actual rules in a published IA book without the experimental stamp.

I really am not a fan of that gun as nasty as it is. I was hoping for something else to say the least. IMO, it didn't need to increase the number of hit and its Strength. It would have been better being S7 or S6 across the board or being AP4.

Something like a 48" Range S8 AP1 RapidFire weapon with Overcharge Option for 24" Heavy 4 S6 AP1 Gets Hot and a Nova Option for a S9 AP1 Gets Hot Lance or something along those lines. Maybe add an options for Secondary weapons.

I may still get one, just because I think the guns look awesome, but I will not run that ugly head, I will use a stock Riptide head instead. 300pts with a Stim and EWO. Also, why does it have Supporting Fire when its guns do not posses a firing mode that allows them to Overwatch?

Here is to hoping its rules will get a major overhaul.

 A GumyBear wrote:
jeez with this i can now bring my fathomed quintuple riptide list to a whopping 6! (7 if points are willing)

Actually with an Enclave force with allied standard Tau force you could bring 9 Riptides. Or 7 if you just ran an Enclave force.

 Zagman wrote:
I really am not a fan of that gun as nasty as it is. I was hoping for something else to say the least. IMO, it didn't need to increase the number of hit and its Strength. It would have been better being S7 or S6 across the board or being AP4.

Something like a 48" Range S8 AP1 RapidFire weapon with Overcharge Option for 24" Heavy 4 S6 AP1 Gets Hot and a Nova Option for a S9 AP1 Gets Hot Lance or something along those lines. Maybe add an options for Secondary weapons.

I may still get one, just because I think the guns look awesome, but I will not run that ugly head, I will use a stock Riptide head instead. 300pts with a Stim and EWO. Also, why does it have Supporting Fire when its guns do not posses a firing mode that allows them to Overwatch?

Here is to hoping its rules will get a major overhaul.

i think its for when the riptide gets charged it can have a 100ish FW shots going at whatever is charging it (both units need supporting fire for it to work right?)

 felixander wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Experimental Rules, keep your shirt on everyone and stop talking out of your behind Mr.Naw

From what I've seen, the experimental rules are usually a good setup for what is to come. And the rules are stupidly overpowered, 4 large blasts that completely shred almost anything it touches?
It's like a Wraithknight...
with 2 extra ablative wounds.... (which shoot missiles pewpew)
and a better armor save...
OH and a better invulnerable save (Which the Wraithknight needs to buy and give up a weapon for)...
which can be boosted to the crazy good 2+/3++ combo...
At least it can't ignore cover with its shooting (OH WAIT, IT CAN)....
And the army is pretty underpowered so it needs a powerful unit to help bring it in line with the other codexs (HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA)

Yes it's expensive, but its cost does not match the amount of things it can do. I understand you don't think it's overpowered and that's fine. Maybe the rules will change drastically for when it's released,but from what I've seen, that won't be the case.

I think its overpowered, but look at the Hades Drill and see how nerfed it was, I am pretty sure this could happen to the suit too, tho I hope its not going such a huge slap in face.

 Zagman wrote:
I really am not a fan of that gun as nasty as it is. I was hoping for something else to say the least. IMO, it didn't need to increase the number of hit and its Strength. It would have been better being S7 or S6 across the board or being AP4.

Something like a 48" Range S8 AP1 RapidFire weapon with Overcharge Option for 24" Heavy 4 S6 AP1 Gets Hot and a Nova Option for a S9 AP1 Gets Hot Lance or something along those lines. Maybe add an options for Secondary weapons.

I may still get one, just because I think the guns look awesome, but I will not run that ugly head, I will use a stock Riptide head instead. 300pts with a Stim and EWO. Also, why does it have Supporting Fire when its guns do not posses a firing mode that allows them to Overwatch?

Here is to hoping its rules will get a major overhaul.

Why do you need a stim when it is t7 6 wounds with a 2+ 4+(against shooting attacks)? Go with EWO and the pilot array and always fire 4 times.

 A GumyBear wrote:

 Zagman wrote:
I really am not a fan of that gun as nasty as it is. I was hoping for something else to say the least. IMO, it didn't need to increase the number of hit and its Strength. It would have been better being S7 or S6 across the board or being AP4.

Something like a 48" Range S8 AP1 RapidFire weapon with Overcharge Option for 24" Heavy 4 S6 AP1 Gets Hot and a Nova Option for a S9 AP1 Gets Hot Lance or something along those lines. Maybe add an options for Secondary weapons.

I may still get one, just because I think the guns look awesome, but I will not run that ugly head, I will use a stock Riptide head instead. 300pts with a Stim and EWO. Also, why does it have Supporting Fire when its guns do not posses a firing mode that allows them to Overwatch?

Here is to hoping its rules will get a major overhaul.

i think its for when the riptide gets charged it can have a 100ish FW shots going at whatever is charging it (both units need supporting fire for it to work right?)

I think you have misread supporting fire. The model being charged doesn't need it, only the models that aren't being charged that get to fire overwatch. There is absolutely no reason to have Supporting Fire.

valace2 wrote:

 Flinty wrote:

valace2 wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
The weapon simply doesn't make sense. If it fires the same size blast, how does a larger creature get hit with more of it? You can't add explosive power based on the size of the target unless you fire multiple times, which the entry kind of implies. I'm not too sure, but there is no reason at all why they could have just made the Pulse Submunition rifle better instead of changing it completely. Or just give us our riptide railguns and leave it at that.

Oh, and this thing is still just as ineffective against terminators as an Ionhead.

Oh I dunno take a 5 man terminator squad deep striking in each model will be hit 8 times if its a direct hit that's 48 hits and probably close to 40 wounds you will fail a few of those saves so its a little more efficient than an ionhead.

4 times each, surely. Terminators are just Bulky aren't they? Or am I dreaming again?

After you Nova Charge the guns they can both fire twice so 4 large blast templates causing 2 hits to each model hit by the templates. This will kill just about anything even models with 2+ saves are going to have a hard time rolling enough saves. Normal units will still fold up under 4 large blast templates. Its horde control at its finest.

The normal Riptide's AP2 5" blast should do about the same damage.

 A GumyBear wrote:

 Zagman wrote:
I really am not a fan of that gun as nasty as it is. I was hoping for something else to say the least. IMO, it didn't need to increase the number of hit and its Strength. It would have been better being S7 or S6 across the board or being AP4.

Something like a 48" Range S8 AP1 RapidFire weapon with Overcharge Option for 24" Heavy 4 S6 AP1 Gets Hot and a Nova Option for a S9 AP1 Gets Hot Lance or something along those lines. Maybe add an options for Secondary weapons.

I may still get one, just because I think the guns look awesome, but I will not run that ugly head, I will use a stock Riptide head instead. 300pts with a Stim and EWO. Also, why does it have Supporting Fire when its guns do not posses a firing mode that allows them to Overwatch?

Here is to hoping its rules will get a major overhaul.

i think its for when the riptide gets charged it can have a 100ish FW shots going at whatever is charging it (both units need supporting fire for it to work right?)

Nope, kroot can't fire supporting fire but other units can use supporting fire if the kroot are charged.

Seems way to good, the amount of targets that this thing can efficiently deal with is way to high
I do like the model alot though

valace2 wrote:

 Zagman wrote:
I really am not a fan of that gun as nasty as it is. I was hoping for something else to say the least. IMO, it didn't need to increase the number of hit and its Strength. It would have been better being S7 or S6 across the board or being AP4.

Something like a 48" Range S8 AP1 RapidFire weapon with Overcharge Option for 24" Heavy 4 S6 AP1 Gets Hot and a Nova Option for a S9 AP1 Gets Hot Lance or something along those lines. Maybe add an options for Secondary weapons.

I may still get one, just because I think the guns look awesome, but I will not run that ugly head, I will use a stock Riptide head instead. 300pts with a Stim and EWO. Also, why does it have Supporting Fire when its guns do not posses a firing mode that allows them to Overwatch?

Here is to hoping its rules will get a major overhaul.

Why do you need a stim when it is t7 6 wounds with a 2+ 4+(against shooting attacks)? Go with EWO and the pilot array and always fire 4 times.

A. You can't take the ECPA. It is not a riptide. Its entry does not give it permission to use Signature Systems.
B. You could still take the ECPA anyway as it doesn't take up a support slot.
C. It effectively makes it 9 wounds and it stands a better chance in CC when it eventually gets caught and hopefully not swept. Riptides are T6 and get easily swept. Also, Grav Centurions or AlphaStrike Grav Bikes.

 McNinja wrote:

valace2 wrote:

 Flinty wrote:

valace2 wrote:

 McNinja wrote:
The weapon simply doesn't make sense. If it fires the same size blast, how does a larger creature get hit with more of it? You can't add explosive power based on the size of the target unless you fire multiple times, which the entry kind of implies. I'm not too sure, but there is no reason at all why they could have just made the Pulse Submunition rifle better instead of changing it completely. Or just give us our riptide railguns and leave it at that.

Oh, and this thing is still just as ineffective against terminators as an Ionhead.

Oh I dunno take a 5 man terminator squad deep striking in each model will be hit 8 times if its a direct hit that's 48 hits and probably close to 40 wounds you will fail a few of those saves so its a little more efficient than an ionhead.

4 times each, surely. Terminators are just Bulky aren't they? Or am I dreaming again?

After you Nova Charge the guns they can both fire twice so 4 large blast templates causing 2 hits to each model hit by the templates. This will kill just about anything even models with 2+ saves are going to have a hard time rolling enough saves. Normal units will still fold up under 4 large blast templates. Its horde control at its finest.

The normal Riptide's AP2 5" blast should do about the same damage.

Someone should do the mathhammer on it


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zagman wrote:

valace2 wrote:

 Zagman wrote:
I really am not a fan of that gun as nasty as it is. I was hoping for something else to say the least. IMO, it didn't need to increase the number of hit and its Strength. It would have been better being S7 or S6 across the board or being AP4.

Something like a 48" Range S8 AP1 RapidFire weapon with Overcharge Option for 24" Heavy 4 S6 AP1 Gets Hot and a Nova Option for a S9 AP1 Gets Hot Lance or something along those lines. Maybe add an options for Secondary weapons.

I may still get one, just because I think the guns look awesome, but I will not run that ugly head, I will use a stock Riptide head instead. 300pts with a Stim and EWO. Also, why does it have Supporting Fire when its guns do not posses a firing mode that allows them to Overwatch?

Here is to hoping its rules will get a major overhaul.

Why do you need a stim when it is t7 6 wounds with a 2+ 4+(against shooting attacks)? Go with EWO and the pilot array and always fire 4 times.

A. You can't take the ECPA. It is not a riptide. Its entry does not give it permission to use Signature Systems.
B. You could still take the ECPA anyway as it doesn't take up a support slot.
C. It effectively makes it 9 wounds and it stands a better chance in CC when it eventually gets caught and hopefully not swept. Riptides are T6 and get easily swept. Also, Grav Centurions or AlphaStrike Grav Bikes.

Not that worried about the grav guns with a 4+ invuln and if you can't take this in an enclave army you take a stim and then really don't worry about grav guns. Hope that you can take these in an Enclave force because the supplement gives Riptides the ability to take signature systems.

Without the array the 4 shots aren't guaranteed which knocks it a bit.

Terminators Are Bulky, So they DO NOT get hit twice.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Terminators Are Bulky, So they DO NOT get hit twice.

Ah my bad, so the Ion accelerator is still better against terminators.

A bunch of mid-high straight AP3 seems meh. i think il stick to the regular riptide who already pretty much instant deaths all the things.

Heh... I like how this thing can't fire Overwatch at all.... How shameful !

Will anything be able to get close for it to need to fire overwatch?