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well, you could be reallyyy bad at painting, collect them for different reasons, or just not like painting? maybe they want to play the game, and involve themselves, but loath painting the small things. Why should they have to take hours out of their lives just to satisfy your "immersion?"

on a side note, primer+ base coating really isn't to terribly hard. its hard to mess up just covering the entire model.

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Who cares? It's a HOBBY, do w/e you want and get w/e you want out of it. There's no set way to go about this... I just don't understand why people let it emotionally affect them when it's not their army or their models lol.

Exactly, it's a hobby, so why would you not participate in the hobby aspect, which is painting the figures?

There's no right or wrong way to have a hobby. I say if someone doesn't want to paint, who cares. People to refuse games based on that just seems childish to me.

 Anfauglir wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
There's no proper way to play.

Yes, there is. The hobby, in its full form, is designed, produced, packaged, sold and enjoyed by many in its natural, intended form. That is, someone buys a rulebook, army book, a collection of minis, assembles and paints said minis (to whatever degree/ability), and plays the TT game against another/others who have done likewise. This is the standard, socially accepted, "proper" or "normal" way to play games of WHFB/40K etc. This is not up for debate, it's simply the way it is. Period.

The book encourages forging a narrative, and even playing the rules differently if you would like to. You're wrong sir, people are welcome to play this game in any fashion. As long as both people agree, there's no wrong way to skin a cat.

Correct. Proper =/= only. Also, what you refer to "the book" encouraging doesn't make any referece to the state of the models vis-a-vis painted/unpainted, only the manner in which the models are used once they reach the tabletop.

They're designed/intended to be painted, whether you choose to use them as such or not. End of story.

You are coming off as highly high-and-mighty and arrogant. In what way, shape, or form is painting strictly required for someone to use their expensive plastic army men? Where is it written that your list of the parameters of the hobby are the game's laws of enjoying 40k? You have all rights to decline a game with someone for any reason, but where do you get the idea that you can tell someone off for having a different approach to the hobby? Not up for discussion, my squig's warty tail!

Yes, GW recommends that the armies be painted. Yes, said armies look better painted. But notice that GW also sells the paint, so naturally they'll self advertise. In the end, they don't care because once you've bought their kits, they have that money. If you got their paint, more so. If not, eh, they sold the kits already. So, in what way do they imply that painting is manditory? It's merely been recommended.

For people merely treating the hobby solely as a game, or those with no interest in painting, painted minis are going the extra mile. In what way is having an assembled, but unpainted army improper? I guess you'd never play me, as I haven't gotten around to painting everything yet. But I'll be damned if I field something that isn't assembled. Does it bother you that people don't use "proper" terrain, or don't use a dedicated gaming table or realm of battle tiles? Because that'd be me, too, seeing as there is no FLGS near me. I'm not sure I'd want to play you at any rate, with your attitude.

I finish with; while you may have a notion of what the "proper" way to engage in the hobby is, don't try to force it on others. Especially on the internet. I wouldn't have posted anything had you presented your opinion as an opinion, not an unalterable truth laid down by the Emperor himself. Good day to you.

OT; This hobby's too expensive to care what others do with their armies. If painted, great! If not, whatever! So long as I can tell what is what, and you don't mind reminding me what unfamiliar units are/do, then I'm good with it.

 Anfauglir wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
There's no rules in a hobby...

I didn't say it was a rule, I said it was the proper way to play. Because it is.

I think you're expressing your opinion of "proper" as a fact. Which is wrong.

BladeSwinga wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
There's no proper way to play.

Yes, there is. The hobby, in its full form, is designed, produced, packaged, sold and enjoyed by many in its natural, intended form. That is, someone buys a rulebook, army book, a collection of minis, assembles and paints said minis (to whatever degree/ability), and plays the TT game against another/others who have done likewise. This is the standard, socially accepted, "proper" or "normal" way to play games of WHFB/40K etc. This is not up for debate, it's simply the way it is. Period.

The book encourages forging a narrative, and even playing the rules differently if you would like to. You're wrong sir, people are welcome to play this game in any fashion. As long as both people agree, there's no wrong way to skin a cat.

Correct. Proper =/= only. Also, what you refer to "the book" encouraging doesn't make any referece to the state of the models vis-a-vis painted/unpainted, only the manner in which the models are used once they reach the tabletop.

They're designed/intended to be painted, whether you choose to use them as such or not. End of story.

You are coming off as highly high-and-mighty and arrogant. In what way, shape, or form is painting strictly required for someone to use their expensive plastic army men? Where is it written that your list of the parameters of the hobby are the game's laws of enjoying 40k? You have all rights to decline a game with someone for any reason, but where do you get the idea that you can tell someone off for having a different approach to the hobby? Not up for discussion, my squig's warty tail!

Yes, GW recommends that the armies be painted. Yes, said armies look better painted. But notice that GW also sells the paint, so naturally they'll self advertise. In the end, they don't care because once you've bought their kits, they have that money. If you got their paint, more so. If not, eh, they sold the kits already. So, in what way do they imply that painting is manditory? It's merely been recommended.

For people merely treating the hobby solely as a game, or those with no interest in painting, painted minis are going the extra mile. In what way is having an assembled, but unpainted army improper? I guess you'd never play me, as I haven't gotten around to painting everything yet. But I'll be damned if I field something that isn't assembled. Does it bother you that people don't use "proper" terrain, or don't use a dedicated gaming table or realm of battle tiles? Because that'd be me, too, seeing as there is no FLGS near me. I'm not sure I'd want to play you at any rate, with your attitude.

I finish with; while you may have a notion of what the "proper" way to engage in the hobby is, don't try to force it on others. Especially on the internet. I wouldn't have posted anything had you presented your opinion as an opinion, not an unalterable truth laid down by the Emperor himself. Good day to you.

OT; This hobby's too expensive to care what others do with their armies. If painted, great! If not, whatever! So long as I can tell what is what, and you don't mind reminding me what unfamiliar units are/do, then I'm good with it.

Amen brother! I bet you go outside and have fun don't you! Glad somebody else could see this from my perspective! Cheers.

Pretty sure this thread is pointless. This guy is going to see any attempt to actually answer the question as a reason to repeat himself.

People don't get mad when you don't paint your army. They think you're silly.
Elitist neckbeards that need to go out more eh? I guess the 90% of us who'd like to play against a painted army are just nerd shut-ins with no life. Oh wait, my wife, children, house, and career disagree with you.

Every reply has been answering your question in one form or another. Your replies are different versions of "I'll play whatever way I want to. Nyah!". Way to actually discuss the topic.

I agree with frankenberry... I think everybody if given the choice would rather play against a painted army than non. Whether your army is painted or not.

I can't imagine someone, with all things being equal, actually having a preference to play grey plastic or even hastily primed models.

 Frankenberry wrote:
Pretty sure this thread is pointless. This guy is going to see any attempt to actually answer the question as a reason to repeat himself.

People don't get mad when you don't paint your army. They think you're silly.
Elitist neckbeards that need to go out more eh? I guess the 90% of us who'd like to play against a painted army are just nerd shut-ins with no life. Oh wait, my wife, children, house, and career disagree with you.

Every reply has been answering your question in one form or another. Your replies are different versions of "I'll play whatever way I want to. Nyah!". Way to actually discuss the topic.

Relax bro, no need to get upset. It's a general discussion, posted in the general discussion forum. Half the threads in this forum are pointless. Take a few deep breaths

Hmmm, you've got too many posts to be a troll account, so I'm guessing you're a bored kid trying to bait some nerds?

I mean, you've asked a daft question, people have given you the benefit of the doubt and answered you as best they can, and as soon as there's a hint of anything you can jump on as slightly agitated all we get is "chillax bro, s'only toy soldiers!"

Oh, point of order, this is the 40K General section, not the General Discussion Section.

We'd eat you alive over there!

 azreal13 wrote:
Hmmm, you've got too many posts to be a troll account, so I'm guessing you're a bored kid trying to bait some nerds?

I mean, you've asked a daft question, people have given you the benefit of the doubt and answered you as best they can, and as soon as there's a hint of anything you can jump on as slightly agitated all we get is "chillax bro, s'only toy soldiers!"

Oh, point of order, this is the 40K General section, not the General Discussion Section.

We'd eat you alive over there!

Not sure how I'd be eaten alive on the interwebs. Don't care. I was asking a serious question and some people got butthurt so started getting snarky and all mad. I wish I was a kid! I'm 28 I'd do anything to be 18 again...

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Hmmm, you've got too many posts to be a troll account, so I'm guessing you're a bored kid trying to bait some nerds?

I mean, you've asked a daft question, people have given you the benefit of the doubt and answered you as best they can, and as soon as there's a hint of anything you can jump on as slightly agitated all we get is "chillax bro, s'only toy soldiers!"

Oh, point of order, this is the 40K General section, not the General Discussion Section.

We'd eat you alive over there!

Not sure how I'd be eaten alive on the interwebs. Don't care. I was asking a serious question and some people got butthurt so started getting snarky and all mad. I wish I was a kid! I'm 28 I'd do anything to be 18 again...

Oh dear....

Perhaps you are the one who needs more outside, because I'm afraid your posts don't read that way.

 azreal13 wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Hmmm, you've got too many posts to be a troll account, so I'm guessing you're a bored kid trying to bait some nerds?

I mean, you've asked a daft question, people have given you the benefit of the doubt and answered you as best they can, and as soon as there's a hint of anything you can jump on as slightly agitated all we get is "chillax bro, s'only toy soldiers!"

Oh, point of order, this is the 40K General section, not the General Discussion Section.

We'd eat you alive over there!

Not sure how I'd be eaten alive on the interwebs. Don't care. I was asking a serious question and some people got butthurt so started getting snarky and all mad. I wish I was a kid! I'm 28 I'd do anything to be 18 again...

Oh dear....

Perhaps you are the one who needs more outside, because I'm afraid your posts don't read that way.

I actually probably need to be inside more often.... Far too many bar nights my man. My life would have a lot less hangovers if I were a basement dweller.

BladeSwinga wrote:
In what way, shape, or form is painting strictly required for someone to use their expensive plastic army men? Where is it written that your list of the parameters of the hobby are the game's laws of enjoying 40k? You have all rights to decline a game with someone for any reason, but where do you get the idea that you can tell someone off for having a different approach to the hobby?

So, in what way do they imply that painting is manditory?

Not once, at any point, in any of my posts have I said any of that. Please read carefully all posts in the topic, noting to whom/what they are replying to, in what context(s) the content of those posts were made and, therefore, what has been said (and not said) by another user before making a reply.

In what way is having an assembled, but unpainted army improper?

In the way that they're not being used as intended. Honestly guys, this isn't a hard concept.

I guess you'd never play me, as I haven't gotten around to painting everything yet. But I'll be damned if I field something that isn't assembled. Does it bother you that people don't use "proper" terrain, or don't use a dedicated gaming table or realm of battle tiles? Because that'd be me, too, seeing as there is no FLGS near me. I'm not sure I'd want to play you at any rate, with your attitude.

*shrug* You're making a lot of assumptions based around things you mistakenly think I've said or think. I'm sorry about that, but it's really not my problem.

I finish with; while you may have a notion of what the "proper" way to engage in the hobby is, don't try to force it on others. Especially on the internet. I wouldn't have posted anything had you presented your opinion as an opinion, not an unalterable truth laid down by the Emperor himself. Good day to you.

*another shrug* And once again I'll refer you to my advice at the beginning of this post. Read carefully and don't jump to incorrect conclusions and assumptions before posting a reply. The fact that there is an intended way to behave with the miniatures is not a matter of opinion. I'm sorry that you feel otherwise, and I'm sorry if my discussion with another user has upset you, but it is what it is. Good day to you, too.

 beigeknight wrote:
I think you're expressing your opinion of "proper" as a fact. Which is wrong.

Please see previous posts/above. The models are designed, manufactured, packaged, sold, and intended for DIY assembly and painting... all with the intention that the TT game is played with legally assembled/modelled and painted armies. This is not an opinion.

I think the thread title leads you to read into things a certain way.

You asked why people get mad.

I dont think anybody does get mad, and had you named the thread

'why do people prefer painted armies" then you'd behappier with the responses you've gotten.

Just a theory.

I've never seen someone rage over unpainted armies, don't know where you play that all this 'raging' is happening but it's nowhere I've ever played.

Most of my displeasure with unpainted armies comes from the people that I KNOW that play them. Most of them don't paint the stuff because they look for the most broken combinations and builds ONLY, don't care about the army, the story, just to win at all costs. No paint, no primer, so they can dispatch them as soon as the next big thing comes out, and even this doesn't cause me to 'rage'... just makes me disappointed.

If I don't know you, I'll still play you, but it's not as enjoyable. I don't have tons of free time, and it takes forever for me to paint an army and personally I won't put a model on the table until it's painted. I don't think there's any doubt that playing a painted army is 'more enjoyable' to all involved. I don't rage when armies aren't painted but I'm sure to look for a painted army to play first.

 Matt1785 wrote:
I've never seen someone rage over unpainted armies, don't know where you play that all this 'raging' is happening but it's nowhere I've ever played.
.

I guess you'd never play me, as I haven't gotten around to painting everything yet. But I'll be damned if I field something that isn't assembled. Does it bother you that people don't use "proper" terrain, or don't use a dedicated gaming table or realm of battle tiles? Because that'd be me, too, seeing as there is no FLGS near me. I'm not sure I'd want to play you at any rate, with your attitude.

I'm guessing....his house?

I usually play my painted stuff over my primed/grey stuff unless im really looking to try out some models to see how they do.But really doing that can lead to a cycle of buying to try and NOT painting cuz they sucked in their first few games.

Mostly I enjoy building painting and some customizing or even scratch building so most of my played armys are painted.

It doesn't bother me in the least to play others unpainted armys though.I count myself lucky to have the time to do the painting part of the Hobby as I know others have very little time for that part of it.

Game and let Game...that's the way I feel in all my gaming

 azreal13 wrote:

 Matt1785 wrote:
I've never seen someone rage over unpainted armies, don't know where you play that all this 'raging' is happening but it's nowhere I've ever played.
.

I guess you'd never play me, as I haven't gotten around to painting everything yet. But I'll be damned if I field something that isn't assembled. Does it bother you that people don't use "proper" terrain, or don't use a dedicated gaming table or realm of battle tiles? Because that'd be me, too, seeing as there is no FLGS near me. I'm not sure I'd want to play you at any rate, with your attitude.

I'm guessing....his house?

The bar dude.. The bar... Remember? I'm never home!

You go to a bar where you play 40K?

Colour me skeptical.

VanHallan wrote:
I agree with frankenberry... I think everybody if given the choice would rather play against a painted army than non. Whether your army is painted or not.

I can't imagine someone, with all things being equal, actually having a preference to play grey plastic or even hastily primed models.

Well, yes. This should be a given: in a perfect wargaming world, every model would be painted, based, and we'd all be Golden Daemon winners or their equivalents. But this isn't a perfect world. We all enjoy different parts of the hobby, which includes building, painting, sculpting, converting, playing and probably other parts that I'm forgetting. Person A likes building and painting. Person B likes converting and sculpting, but just primes minis to hide the green stuff and then plays with them. Player C pays somebody to build his models then plays with them. Is any person enjoying his hobby incorrectly? Absolutely not: it's his hobby. Anyone saying otherwise is 100% wrong, because they have no right whatsoever to tell somebody else how to enjoy their hobby. You're not a jerk if you prefer playing against painted armies over unpainted. You're a jerk if you tell somebody they're playing wrong or they're a bad hobbyist because they didn't paint their models, or if you refuse to play against unpainted minis because the person who didn't paint his minis is obviously inferior. Those two situations make you jerks. Preferring painted minis, but still accepting unpainted is not jerky.

I just have only ever witnessed raging between WAAC players who couldn't possibly be losing to the other OP list they're facing.. never over the status of another's painting.

I will say that Anfauglir is fairly set on painted vs unpainted... but has a point that the models are 'made to be painted'... otherwise they might come that way. This isn't Heroclix where collection and playing is all you do... He does seem to have a STRONGER opinion then most though.. but nothing wrong with that.

I guess I'm just confused on where the horror story is on people refusing to play unpainted armies.

I am with you 100%.

I prefer painted armies, however I am grateful that there are local players that are hardcore into the strategy... They can give me better advice about what my army needs than my eyes can when I go looking at boxes of cool stuff to paint.

My biggest discovery since i started the hooby again is that my blood angels army doesn't really work... I was just painting units and buying things i didnt have, 1 of everything.

Now that I'm getting my butt kicked by unpainted armies weekly, I am not complaining about it, I'm learning from my mistakes and making adjustments.

That to me is what the hobby is all about.

ULTIMATELY, I am looking for a solid core of 5-7 players that I can create a gaming group with, and one of the rules of joining would be that every mini would be painted, but that would just be MY house rule, I would have no desire to take my house rules into another hobby environment.

 Matt1785 wrote:
I will say that Anfauglir is fairly set on painted vs unpainted... but has a point that the models are 'made to be painted'... otherwise they might come that way. This isn't Heroclix where collection and playing is all you do... He does seem to have a STRONGER opinion then most though.. but nothing wrong with that.

I'm the same as 95% of all the other responses - yes I'd prefer to play against painted. A couple of posters have failed to comprehend what I've said, put two and two together come up with fourteen and then run with it. Eh... what can you do.

 Anfauglir wrote:

BladeSwinga wrote:
In what way, shape, or form is painting strictly required for someone to use their expensive plastic army men? Where is it written that your list of the parameters of the hobby are the game's laws of enjoying 40k? You have all rights to decline a game with someone for any reason, but where do you get the idea that you can tell someone off for having a different approach to the hobby?

So, in what way do they imply that painting is manditory?

Not once, at any point, in any of my posts have I said any of that. Please read carefully all posts in the topic, noting to whom/what they are replying to, in what context(s) the content of those posts were made and, therefore, what has been said (and not said) by another user before making a reply.

In what way is having an assembled, but unpainted army improper?

In the way that they're not being used as intended. Honestly guys, this isn't a hard concept.

I guess you'd never play me, as I haven't gotten around to painting everything yet. But I'll be damned if I field something that isn't assembled. Does it bother you that people don't use "proper" terrain, or don't use a dedicated gaming table or realm of battle tiles? Because that'd be me, too, seeing as there is no FLGS near me. I'm not sure I'd want to play you at any rate, with your attitude.

*shrug* You're making a lot of assumptions based around things you mistakenly think I've said or think. I'm sorry about that, but it's really not my problem.

I finish with; while you may have a notion of what the "proper" way to engage in the hobby is, don't try to force it on others. Especially on the internet. I wouldn't have posted anything had you presented your opinion as an opinion, not an unalterable truth laid down by the Emperor himself. Good day to you.

*another shrug* And once again I'll refer you to my advice at the beginning of this post. Read carefully and don't jump to incorrect conclusions and assumptions before posting a reply. The fact that there is an intended way to behave with the miniatures is not a matter of opinion. I'm sorry that you feel otherwise, and I'm sorry if my discussion with another user has upset you, but it is what it is. Good day to you, too.

 beigeknight wrote:
I think you're expressing your opinion of "proper" as a fact. Which is wrong.

Please see previous posts/above. The models are designed, manufactured, packaged, sold, and intended for DIY assembly and painting... all with the intention that the TT game is played with legally assembled/modelled and painted armies. This is not an opinion.

My main issue with your statements was the way they came off. Arrogance is something I do not abide, and you achieved the tone of arrogance through claiming that your points on the hobby were absolutes. I'm not going to nicely edit the quoted text like you do, because doing so on a tablet is nightmarish.

If I made arguments you feel were based on assumption, keep in mind that I said you came off as arrogant. Your posts implied there was an absolute right/wrong in a hobby that is one giant grey area. Yes, the models are intended for painting. I stated this in my post, but in no way does this make painting manditory. It's a hobby, which is partaken in by choice, and you should be able to choose which aspects to partake in by choice. I think proper isn't the word to be flung around in this context, as it is different between people what proper is- such as in our disagreement.

An intent for what GW's miniatures are used for does not deem their intended use is the absolute law for using them. That is the point I'm trying to make; you may see a Ork Boy as something to be painted and be used in the TT called WH40K, but someone else may look at the same model and think it would be perfect for righting that wobbly chair, for a lack of a better example. I would never do that, but I hope this conveys my point better. At the end of the day, to each their own. It just read to me that your argument was like a kid in a sandbox yanked away another kid's toy truck because he/she was "playing with it wrong" and was showing him/her how to play with it the "right" way.

 azreal13 wrote:
You go to a bar where you play 40K?

Colour me skeptical.

The club I play at is over a bar, and we go downstairs and bring up beers regularly. It rules.

I'm in this hobby largely for the painting aspect. There's nothing I love more than two well painted armies rushing at each other on a beautifully painted battlefield, but I understand not everyone has the time or resources to paint or what have you. However, you'll only get better the more you do. I wouldn't get mad at someone for not having a painted army, but I definitely urge people on. This game really comes into its own when there's some solid spectacle built around it.

It's like some one in a D&d group who refused to engage in role playing and merely wants to fight and engage in the crunch. It brings it down and ruins the fun.

 Anfauglir wrote:
However, the gaming/play side of it is supposed to be done properly, that means with legally modelled and painted miniatures.

Good thing that that is not what GW says the hobby is then isn't it?

BladeSwinga wrote:
My main issue with your statements was the way they came off. Arrogance is something I do not abide, and you achieved the tone of arrogance through claiming that your points on the hobby were absolutes.

Ah. You see, this is a problem derived of reading, and then taking my posts out of context. My tone is in response of the discussion with the TC. Unfortunately you jumped in kind of late.

If I made arguments you feel were based on assumption, keep in mind that I said you came off as arrogant.

It doesn't matter how you think my post "came off"... you flat out took what I'd wrote and turned it into something else. Pure lack of comprehension followed by conjecture which was then used to inform your reply - something that I do not abide. Even if I thought another user was being arrogant, I would never dream of putting words in their mouth and then using it against them in a reply.

Your posts implied there was an absolute right/wrong in a hobby that is one giant grey area.

They really didn't. See above.

It just read to me that your argument was like a kid in a sandbox yanked away another kid's toy truck because he/she was "playing with it wrong" and was showing him/her how to play with it the "right" way.

This is why context combined with content is fundamental to effective communication. Oh well, I hold no grudges.

VanHallan wrote:
I agree with frankenberry... I think everybody if given the choice would rather play against a painted army than non. Whether your army is painted or not.

I can't imagine someone, with all things being equal, actually having a preference to play grey plastic or even hastily primed models.

I would rather play grey plastic over a bad paint job, or just primer job. The plastic has great detail, and is easy to see the wysiwig on. Primer and bad paint jobs can make this hard to do.

And don't for get about the 'Ard Boyz format. It is/was a dedicated grey plastic format for years.

I'd rather see a badly painted army than an unpainted one; a badly painted army at least shows some token effort, which is nice to see. For most people, it's their first step towards a good looking army.