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Yeah, Warmachine has a couple characters that have switched between factions over the years. The old versions are still considered completely legit for their original factions.

 Mr Morden wrote:
New layout is pretty good?

Spoiler:

We don;t play tournaments so the Dead Mans hand will be fine for us.

I'm not fond of the (proposed) new layout myself. The artwork dominates what should be a gameplay aid, and the graphics muddy the rules text somewhat. The current file or document style is neat, and immersive as well. I can't say I see a reason to change the cards at all, really- seems like change for the sake of change.

 TheWaspinator wrote:
Yeah, Warmachine has a couple characters that have switched between factions over the years. The old versions are still considered completely legit for their original factions.

Warmachine? Aren't we talking about Malifaux here?

It was in the context of games dealing with characters changing allegiances and stuff, so it makes sense to me?

DARK AGE lets you play with 'dead' characters too - and in tournaments as well!

Cycling characters in and out as the story evolved would have been quite a good thing in my opinion. Straight out killing them though......yeah, no.

I don’t care if you cycle or even kill characters in the story, but doing so shouldn’t remove them from the game.

There's nothing stopping you from playing Ramos or Lilith as Hoffman or Nekima. their thematic crews would still be the same.

Remember that this stuff leaked way earlier than Wyrd intended, so a lot of their explanation of things isn't available yet. Let's save the outrage for when more information is revealed.

Also, FWIW, all stats will be available for free anyways. You don't have to use the card, and maybe we'll be getting a great Infinity-like army builder with readily-accessible stats. the current Malifaux one is serviceable only for building lists. Stats available for free opens the opportunity for a fan-made third party listbuilder. This will streamline listbuilding significantly.

Not a fan of two masters in the same list.

From the forums;

Some of the Masters have suffered setbacks that have removed them from Malifaux's stage. Lilith has been imprisoned within Nythera, Nicodem was killed by Lady Justice, Ramos is locked up in a Guild jail cell in Vienna, and Collodi... well, it's final fate hasn't been revealed quite yet.

All of these Masters (and their totems) will receive updated stat cards in M3E in a special "Dead Man's Hand" pack. By default, they will not be tournament legal (due to being absent in the story), but an option will exist to allow these "Dead Man's Hand" Masters to be played in tournaments that wish to allow it.

 AduroT wrote:
I don’t care if you cycle or even kill characters in the story, but doing so shouldn’t remove them from the game.

That makes the fluff as meaningful as yapping in a corner.
I get the complaint, but the theme and story is a major selling point and design consideration of Malifaux.

 .Mikes. wrote:
From the forums;

Some of the Masters have suffered setbacks that have removed them from Malifaux's stage. Lilith has been imprisoned within Nythera, Nicodem was killed by Lady Justice, Ramos is locked up in a Guild jail cell in Vienna, and Collodi... well, it's final fate hasn't been revealed quite yet.

All of these Masters (and their totems) will receive updated stat cards in M3E in a special "Dead Man's Hand" pack. By default, they will not be tournament legal (due to being absent in the story), but an option will exist to allow these "Dead Man's Hand" Masters to be played in tournaments that wish to allow it.

I actually really like that! I'd prefer the story to advance and meaningful changes happen, and it sounds like a good compromise to me.

Since Warmachine was mentioned earlier, and I played it quite heavily, I'd just like to say that models NEVER cycling out and always persisting is a bit... overrated. It leads to game bloat, and having some characters sidelined (to possibly return later) is a great idea.

~~~~

Could someone point me towards some beginner resources (knowing that they might be invalidated by the new edition, but just to read up on the basics)? I'm very interested in jumping in on M3E!

 .Mikes. wrote:
From the forums;

Some of the Masters have suffered setbacks that have removed them from Malifaux's stage. Lilith has been imprisoned within Nythera, Nicodem was killed by Lady Justice, Ramos is locked up in a Guild jail cell in Vienna, and Collodi... well, it's final fate hasn't been revealed quite yet.

All of these Masters (and their totems) will receive updated stat cards in M3E in a special "Dead Man's Hand" pack. By default, they will not be tournament legal (due to being absent in the story), but an option will exist to allow these "Dead Man's Hand" Masters to be played in tournaments that wish to allow it.

Dollars to Donuts says 90% of TOs allow Dead Man's Hand.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:
From the forums;

Some of the Masters have suffered setbacks that have removed them from Malifaux's stage. Lilith has been imprisoned within Nythera, Nicodem was killed by Lady Justice, Ramos is locked up in a Guild jail cell in Vienna, and Collodi... well, it's final fate hasn't been revealed quite yet.

All of these Masters (and their totems) will receive updated stat cards in M3E in a special "Dead Man's Hand" pack. By default, they will not be tournament legal (due to being absent in the story), but an option will exist to allow these "Dead Man's Hand" Masters to be played in tournaments that wish to allow it.

Dollars to Donuts says 90% of TOs allow Dead Man's Hand.

Then why not make it 100% outside of special story events? And not invalidate people's purchases and crews? I had 3 painted Neverborn crews. Collodi, Lillith and Lynch. Now I have NONE. I guess I could finish my Pandora, but what's the point when they can just have another poll and let people decide to remove my next master?

Keep your silly meta story out of my game. We already have nonsensical matchups and crews inconsistent with the fluff. Just how desperate ARE these mercs who join an Old Major lead crew? And how is the pig paying them?

 DarkBlack wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
I don’t care if you cycle or even kill characters in the story, but doing so shouldn’t remove them from the game.

That makes the fluff as meaningful as yapping in a corner.
I get the complaint, but the theme and story is a major selling point and design consideration of Malifaux.

It's really not, the main selling point of Malifaux are its unique card mechanics, tactical and strategic depth and the miniatures/theme. The amount of people that care about lore in wargames is honestly greatly exaggerated. Malifaux is first and foremost a GAME and to invalidate peoples gaming purchases and time they put into painting crews etc to progress the narrative is just a bad decision. Warmachine and Guildball are good examples of how you can appeal to the story lovers and gamers equally.

Yeah... I don't have a problem with killing off characters, but I'm really not a fan of radically altering fielding options by removing them, or removing them from factions. It probably won't ever hurt someone with a big collection, but small collections can get hugely hurt, when they have a couple masters and they don't work in conjunction with each other any more, or w/e.

 DarkBlack wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
I don’t care if you cycle or even kill characters in the story, but doing so shouldn’t remove them from the game.

That makes the fluff as meaningful as yapping in a corner.
I get the complaint, but the theme and story is a major selling point and design consideration of Malifaux.

That's frankly where it should be. They shouldn't cater to the crowd that wants to run a RPG instead of a skirmish game.That's what "Through the Breach" is for. And frankly I had enough railroaded metaplot RPG's in the 90's, with White Wolf blowing up their world every few years, TSR turning Planescape into a steaming pile with Faction War, the neverending Forgotten Realms cataclysms etc.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:

Then why not make it 100% outside of special story events? And not invalidate people's purchases and crews? I had 3 painted Neverborn crews. Collodi, Lillith and Lynch. Now I have NONE. I guess I could finish my Pandora, but what's the point when they can just have another poll and let people decide to remove my next master?

My guess is that it's meant to be sort of easing these characters out. So that fewer people are upset when they don't make a reappearance in another new edition. My guess is that "dead" masters that continue to see play and community attention will get remade, and those who don't get quietly mothballed.

They may also be prepping the game for a more dynamic master rotation. Making hiring keyword focused let’s people keep their crew even if Marcus leaves Arcanists entirely and becomes Neverborn/Bayou.

The feeling that you need everything in a faction to compete (not true but it feels that way) makes it hard to expand the game, particularly in the form of new masters. A fixed size with a rotating current set could help quite a bit.

Mercs are basically going away:
https://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/137139-third-edition-is-coming/?page=23&tab=comments#comment-1104261

Mercenaries in the M2E sense of the word are going away. They were very much a "feast or famine" issue in M2E, where they were either an option that was never considered (Hog Whisperer, Freikorpsmann, Torakage) or were in every list due to their strength (Burn, McTavish, Freikorps Trapper).

Instead, Mercenary is the name of the Viktorias' keyword (just like December is the name of Raspy's).

Seems we're going to be getting much stricter rules on hiring cross-faction, and being able to have multiple Masters may alleviate that. Plus, it's important to note that Masters now have costs attributed to them as is the case with the revealed Rasputina card. It'll still be a tradeoff if you want to take multiple masters, and sometimes it's probably better to stay focused. Taking a second master may be the new equivalent to the Merc tax.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 TheWaspinator wrote:
Yeah, Warmachine has a couple characters that have switched between factions over the years. The old versions are still considered completely legit for their original factions.

Warmachine? Aren't we talking about Malifaux here?

The post before mine brought it up.

Whew, so many thoughts on M3E. As a 10T player, as the head of a local group of mostly M1E and newbies wanting to get into or back into the game, as a dude who has like ~75 stone in Brewmaster sitting in a box waiting to be built, as a gamer with little time who needs to focus on Kings of War tournament play for the next couple months ...

I guess where I'm at is:
- Props to Wyrd for being so devoted to advancing their game's narrative and shaking masters up

- Keyword selected crews remind me of how Warhams is doing things, except no doubt it'll be much better handled

- I'm 50/50 on going to prebuilt minis: on one hand, Wyrd's obnoxious builds are a major turn off (to my newbs too); on the other, they provide a level of complexity people who aren't me like and that's increasingly rare on the market

- I backed The Other Side and at least theoretically prefer that game to Malifaux, simply based on scale. If both had been available when WHFB died, I would have picked up TOS and not MFX, so I'm pretty interested in speed painting my pledge and seeing what it's got. Unfortunately I have a feeling the player base for MFX will be stronger, especially with this group of gamers I'm managing who want a low model count, so skirmishfaux may win out anyway.

- I'm guessing Brewie will be my M3E starter

- Salvage

NVM. As someone with a fair bit of M1E, I'm interested in seeing where 3E gore

Yea, The Other Side is the unit-based army-scale skirmish game to Malifaux's warband-scale skirmish game. Same size minis and what not, but with units formed with groups of them on even bigger bases / unit trays and rules governing their activation, damage, etc as a group of minis. A bit less granularity as well, which I dig - I'm in the "Malifaux hurts my head" camp

- Salvage

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
NVM. As someone with a fair bit of M1E, I'm interested in seeing where 3E gore

It's about WMH scale - although with slightly fewer things to move around because of the combined bases.

Apparently rules have been added to resolve ties. In the event of a tie the person that hired fewer models gains a half point and if both crews started with the same number of models whoever had more sharing the master’s keyword gets it. Apparently this was done to help make tournaments easier to run.

From this we can infer that you CAN hire outside of keywords but they will provide access to models out of faction without the infiltration clunkyness.

 ChaoticMind wrote:

From this we can infer that you CAN hire outside of keywords but they will provide access to models out of faction without the infiltration clunkyness.

They've stated there's a penalty for hiring out of keyword. There's also no generic Mercenary rule in M3E (Viks just use Mercenary as their hiring keyword). Likely this means you pay the Merc tax for things that aren't part of your keyword. There are also models whose keyword is "Versatile" who can be hired by faction masters regardless of keyword.

 LunarSol wrote:
There's also no generic Mercenary rule in M3E (Viks just use Mercenary as their hiring keyword). Likely this means you pay the Merc tax for things that aren't part of your keyword. There are also models whose keyword is "Versatile" who can be hired by faction masters regardless of keyword.

... aka "Mercenary"? LOL

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
There's also no generic Mercenary rule in M3E (Viks just use Mercenary as their hiring keyword). Likely this means you pay the Merc tax for things that aren't part of your keyword. There are also models whose keyword is "Versatile" who can be hired by faction masters regardless of keyword.

... aka "Mercenary"? LOL

No, it’s still within faction. They can just be hired by any of the factions masters without the downside of hiring outside keyword (whatever that is).

"Mercenary" is the typical keyword for things that can be hired by anyone (for the right price). The Viks should have gotten a different keyword.