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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 19:26:40
Subject: Shooting at LAX
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Fixture of Dakka
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Seaward wrote: BobtheInquisitor wrote:So, when moderate Muslims don't condemn their violent far-right coreligionists, they are culpable for allowing the hostile atmosphere and deserve scorn, but if a right wing extremist acts of the crazy rhetoric coming out of the right wing, the party is blameless and had no responsibility to police itself?
I don't think you'll find anyone condoning this guy's actions, which is where your comparison breaks down.
Just check out the comments section on any news story about this. You'll find more than a few people wanting to string the guy up.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 19:40:56
Subject: Shooting at LAX
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Moderate muslims don't condone their extremists, either. they get in trouble when they say, "He isn't a true Muslim."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 19:43:20
Subject: Shooting at LAX
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Imperial Admiral
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BobtheInquisitor wrote:So, when moderate Muslims don't condemn their violent far-right coreligionists, they are culpable for allowing the hostile atmosphere and deserve scorn,
You need to pick one.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/03 19:43:42
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 20:08:45
Subject: Shooting at LAX
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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The whole "assault rifle" sensationalism is getting to be a bit much.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 21:13:22
Subject: Shooting at LAX
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Seaward wrote: BobtheInquisitor wrote:So, when moderate Muslims don't condemn their violent far-right coreligionists, they are culpable for allowing the hostile atmosphere and deserve scorn,
You need to pick one.
This is exactly my point. You guys tend to assume that if they don't condemn something, they condone it. That's why I was pointing out the hypocrisy in a bunch of conservatives not condemning the Glen Beck crazies in their midst, especially when one of them shoots up some innocent government workers.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 22:02:45
Subject: Re:Shooting at LAX
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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This would never have happened if George Zimmerman were there.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 22:03:46
Subject: Re:Shooting at LAX
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Fate-Controlling Farseer
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Ouze wrote:This would never have happened if George Zimmerman were there.
You're just trying to fill your own bingo card out now.
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Full Frontal Nerdity |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/03 22:04:24
Subject: Re:Shooting at LAX
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Yeah, I apologize, that was pretty forced.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/04 05:23:51
Subject: Shooting at LAX
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Imperial Admiral
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BobtheInquisitor wrote:This is exactly my point. You guys tend to assume that if they don't condemn something, they condone it. That's why I was pointing out the hypocrisy in a bunch of conservatives not condemning the Glen Beck crazies in their midst, especially when one of them shoots up some innocent government workers.
Except, again, conservatives will absolutely condemn someone walking into LAX and shooting it up, so that's outright bs you're talking there.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/04 05:39:42
Subject: Shooting at LAX
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Fixture of Dakka
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Seaward wrote: BobtheInquisitor wrote:This is exactly my point. You guys tend to assume that if they don't condemn something, they condone it. That's why I was pointing out the hypocrisy in a bunch of conservatives not condemning the Glen Beck crazies in their midst, especially when one of them shoots up some innocent government workers.
Except, again, conservatives will absolutely condemn someone walking into LAX and shooting it up, so that's outright bs you're talking there.
That's exactly right. As I said earlier, if you look at the comments section for any article dealing with this, they're the ones going for the rope.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/04 08:38:28
Subject: Re:Shooting at LAX
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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I saw the thread title for this and thought even money it'd end up a debate on gun control or extreme right wing rhetoric.
Anyhow, this is a product of the zeitgeist. You want to obsess about an almost entirely fictitious culture war, you're going to get the odd crazy who believes it enough to go and shoot some poor bastard who was just doing his job.
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āWe may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.ā
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/04 17:48:21
Subject: Re:Shooting at LAX
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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MeanGreenStompa wrote:So, we are now reaping the benefits of the rantings of Alex Jones, Glenn Beck and other wellsprings of right wing political conspiracy rhetoric. These people are empowered to spew hatred and sedition, along entirely partisan lines, and the end result is disturbed people take this gak and act on it.
How long can the freedom of speech be used as an excuse for these demagogues to spin evil and hatred and then shrug when what they've incited means people are dead?
Yes, lets stick with those on the other side who just brand their political opponents "terrorists", accuse them of being un-American, and in some cases say that they should be locked up because of their political views.
Or maybe, just maybe, we can ask mainstream groups to moderate their language and try and find common ground
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/04 17:49:21
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/04 20:02:42
Subject: Re:Shooting at LAX
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Already the editorials are rolling in that the TSA should be armed. While I normally don't have a problem with someone who is at least technically in law enforcement being armed if there is a reasonable expectation that they may have to use lethal force to protect life'... in this specific bureaucracy I don't think these guys can be trusted with a stapler.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/04 20:12:13
Subject: Re:Shooting at LAX
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Ouze wrote:Already the editorials are rolling in that the TSA should be armed. While I normally don't have a problem with someone who is at least technically in law enforcement being armed if there is a reasonable expectation that they may have to use lethal force to protect life'... in this specific bureaucracy I don't think these guys can be trusted with a stapler.
One thing I completely agree with you on  Airports are full of people trying to get from point A to point B safely. Having someone who only qualifies with a sidearm once a year seems like a pretty good way to increase the risk of someone catching a stray round, especially if we look at the marksmanship shown by the LAPD & NYPD
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/04 21:47:30
Subject: Re:Shooting at LAX
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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MeanGreenStompa wrote: Seaward wrote: MeanGreenStompa wrote:How long can the freedom of speech be used as an excuse for these demagogues to spin evil and hatred and then shrug when what they've incited means people are dead?
Are you thinking internment camps, or just outright execution?
Actually I was thinking of laws against inciting violence based on ideology or voting behavior, similar to the incitement to racial hatred law in the UK which can be used to shut up people like Abu Hamza, but thanks for adding your usual level of cerebral acrobatics to the discussion.
Good thing we have the First Amendment for just such a contingency. Automatically Appended Next Post: MeanGreenStompa wrote: Seaward wrote: MeanGreenStompa wrote:I would no more want Catcher banned than any other book, I at no time said I wanted to ban 'anything containing anti-government sentiment' so please refrain from further strawman in that regard. I suggested legislation against calling for violence or murder against political or ideological opponents, which is something these broadcasters have pushed.
This is where things get interesting. Can you point to any examples of Glenn Beck calling for violence? I'd certainly hope so, else you're flirting with outright lying.
"Drive a stake through their hearts"
"Put a bullet in their heads"
He has constantly claimed that the government is: Nazi, Fascist, Communist, Terrorist and is already the Manchurian regime, brainwashing children and utterly at odds with the founding fathers, Christianity and everything that 'good and decent' Americans should hold dear.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Relapse wrote:
While we're at it we should ban all violent video games, movies, and sexually suggestive music videos, eh?
Do music videos, video games or movies claim to be factual? No, didn't fething think so.
While we're at it, debate the issue raised or leave the room. Don't hop in here with that puerile strawman.
You're going to need to wack MSNBC too... Automatically Appended Next Post: BobtheInquisitor wrote:So, when moderate Muslims don't condemn their violent far-right coreligionists, they are culpable for allowing the hostile atmosphere and deserve scorn, but if a right wing extremist acts of the crazy rhetoric coming out of the right wing, the party is blameless and had no responsibility to police itself?
It does seem a bit hypocritical to me. I would also condemn any leftists who didn't make some serious introspection should some liberal extremist start shooting up wall street or the GOP or something. However, that doesn't seem to have happened yet. (I do actually expect something to occur due to some of the "we need a violent revolution" chatter one hears from time to time.)
At least this guy didn't go full Brevik.
The Left also hates the TSA with a passion. Careful there.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/04 21:51:20
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/04 23:22:09
Subject: Re:Shooting at LAX
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Which, if you think about it, makes no sense, since the TSA does a pretty awesome job of government redistributing wealth* towards the downtrodden**.
*Stealing your ipad
**Themselves
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/04 23:22:52
Subject: Re:Shooting at LAX
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Fate-Controlling Farseer
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Ouze wrote:
Which, if you think about it, makes no sense, since the TSA does a pretty awesome job of government redistributing wealth* towards the downtrodden**.
*Stealing your ipad
**Themselves
Well, when does the left make any sense anyways?
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Full Frontal Nerdity |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/05 08:32:06
Subject: Shooting at LAX
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[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion
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God damn, shopping mall in Jersey too it seems. Not a good week for 'big news' shooting stories if that makes sense. Not sure if anyone is dead or not, just 'gunman on the loose, shots fired' sort of thing. Apparently no injuries though...(I'm updating it as I'm watching the news ha, hence the gradual learning of more stuff). Well thats a lot better than it initially sounded  quite happy it was an anticlimax
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/11/05 08:44:53
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/05 10:20:06
Subject: Shooting at LAX
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Worthiest of Warlock Engineers
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Its an AR...... Damn, don't those guns ever give up? Ever
I mean, forcing that poor man to shoot all those people. These guns are twisted and evil.....
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Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/05 13:05:58
Subject: Shooting at LAX
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Has there ever been anything approaching a sensible definition by the media/lawmakers as to what constitutes an "assault rifle"? Or are we still working of the key characteristics of black and tacticool?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/05 13:14:02
Subject: Shooting at LAX
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Hulking Hunter-class Warmech
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Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Has there ever been anything approaching a sensible definition by the media/lawmakers as to what constitutes an "assault rifle"? Or are we still working of the key characteristics of black and tacticool?
Obligatory
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/05 13:35:24
Subject: Shooting at LAX
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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motyak wrote:God damn, shopping mall in Jersey too it seems. Not a good week for 'big news' shooting stories if that makes sense. Not sure if anyone is dead or not, just 'gunman on the loose, shots fired' sort of thing. Apparently no injuries though...(I'm updating it as I'm watching the news ha, hence the gradual learning of more stuff).
Well thats a lot better than it initially sounded  quite happy it was an anticlimax
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/05/us/new-jersey-mall-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
(CNN) -- A gunman who opened fire at a New Jersey mall Monday night later holed up in a back room and shot himself in the head, authorities say.
No one else was injured in the mall shooting.
Richard Shoop's body was found at 3:20 a.m. Tuesday in an obscure part of Westfield Garden State Plaza mall, hours after he fired at least six bullets without striking anyone in the massive shopping center.
He acted alone, authorities say.
Mall shooter found dead Gunfire at New Jersey mall, shooter dead Witness: Really didn't know what to do
"We know that his intent was either suicide or to do something that would cause police to shoot him, which we call 'suicide by cop,'" Bergen County Prosecutor John Molinelli told CNN's "New Day."
"He had more than enough opportunity to be able to shoot other people," including a group adjacent to him, but he didn't, Molinelli said. "Instead, he shot randomly at different locations."
Shots hit the ceiling, an escalator, an elevator and a storefront, the prosecutor said.
The reasons for the shooting remain unclear. Shoop used narcotic drugs and sold drugs as well, Molinelli said.
And he left behind a note referring to the idea that the "end was coming," Molinelli said. "That could mean going to jail, getting arrested, or it could mean suicide." Authorities don't know whether Shoop left the note immediately before going to the mall.
Pandemonium
The melee started around 9:20 p.m. ET Monday night, just as the shopping center was about to close. Thousands of people were still in the mall, Molinelli said.
Shoop, dressed all in black and wearing a motorcycle helmet, walked through the mall armed with a rifle modified to look like an AK-47. The rifle was taken from Shoop's brother, Molinelli said.
Allie Cozic, who works in the mall, said everyone was "running to wherever they could."
Police were yelling 'shots fired' Witness: I heard 6 or 7 gunshots Shots fired in New Jersey mall
"It was almost like when you're watching a horror movie and the killer is walking slowly -- that's what it seemed like," she said. "He was wearing all black -- it almost looked like body armor of some kind. As soon as I saw the gun, I just turned and ran."
Eddie Kahmann, another mall employee, said he heard six or seven gunshots.
"There was just people running like crazy, so I quickly just closed my doors, ran to the back, turned off all the lights, music and everything, just to stay hidden," he said.
The shooting sent panic through the mall and set off a frenzied hunt for the gunman. In the early hours of the search, officials weren't sure whether the shooter was still inside or outside the 2-million-square-foot building.
Signs of trouble
Shoop, 20, was known by local law enforcement. He had a history of drug use and abuse, Molinelli said.
"He at least thought that he was reaching a point where there was no recourse but to take his own life," Molinelli said.
But even as his body lay in a remote room in a construction area, fear still permeated the mall.
More than 100 shoppers were still hiding inside stores early Tuesday morning, unsure of whether they could safely come out. Officers worked to evacuate each store.
It seems that the only death/injury was to the shooter himself
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/05 14:59:48
Subject: Shooting at LAX
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Has there ever been anything approaching a sensible definition by the media/lawmakers as to what constitutes an "assault rifle"?
Was it a rifle?
Did somebody assault somebody with it?
Assault Rifle!
Or are we still working of the key characteristics of black and tacticool?
Was it a rifle?
Did somebody assault somebody with it?
Was it black?
Tactical Assault Rifle!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/05 16:44:54
Subject: Shooting at LAX
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Yeah, that seems to be the prevailing logic (please note I use that word loosely)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/05 17:25:24
Subject: Shooting at LAX
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Slippery Scout Biker
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d-usa wrote: Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Has there ever been anything approaching a sensible definition by the media/lawmakers as to what constitutes an "assault rifle"?
Was it a rifle?
Did somebody assault somebody with it?
Assault Rifle!
Or are we still working of the key characteristics of black and tacticool?
Was it a rifle?
Did somebody assault somebody with it?
Was it black?
Tactical Assault Rifle!
Is it fully automatic or select-fire?
Is it in the hands of police or military personnel?
Service Rifle!
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