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I imagine one of the reasons why GW keeps things fairly simple is because their target demographic (or what they think their target demographic is) are 12-year-old boys, who might be put off if the models came in too many parts and were more difficult to assemble than they currently are. Usually those kits you mention have lots of parts, I've even seen some for example that have upwards of 600-700, and sometimes those parts can be pretty small and delicate. GW also seems keen nowadays to advertise how quick and easy to assemble their kits are, like the new Dark Elves for example. Last month they said this about the warriors on release weekend: "It's also worth mentioning that each model comes in just four components, making them wonderfully easy to assemble so that you can get straight in to painting them for your collection." More parts means more complicated kits, more complicated kits means more time spent assembling them, and more time spent assembling them means more time for little kiddies to lose interest and go back to video games.

It makes for some pretty bland-looking armies though, in my opinion. I'm sure I'm not the only one who looks at all the new Dark Elves and thinks every army is going to look exactly the same, and thinks it's just sad how damn near every individual model is in the exact same pose with the only differences being a leader without a helmet or a guy banging a drum/carrying a banner. I mean I expect the armies in WHF to be a little more uniform or regimented, but to the point where every model is in the exact same pose holding their spear the exact same way?

Oh I certainly agree that those kits I mentioned are time consuming. I only mentioned them to illustrate the point that plastic can do a lot, especially compared to gw's current offerings.

After building a Real Grade zeta gundam (1/144, about the size of a dreadknight) and seeing the entire internal frame made from different plastics (they molded the frame, then did a second mold that added articulation to the frame) and be completely pose able blew me away. There is nothing stopping gw from doing this with kits like the riptide or tau suits.

Granted, they are all about speed of building. Bandai even made full color kits, with more than 1 color on certain parts, in the 80's.

Imagine having pre colored tau suits. Just clip and go. Same with just about any army. Pre colored ultramarines?

 Sidstyler wrote:

It makes for some pretty bland-looking armies though, in my opinion. I'm sure I'm not the only one who looks at all the new Dark Elves and thinks every army is going to look exactly the same, and thinks it's just sad how damn near every individual model is in the exact same pose with the only differences being a leader without a helmet or a guy banging a drum/carrying a banner. I mean I expect the armies in WHF to be a little more uniform or regimented, but to the point where every model is in the exact same pose holding their spear the exact same way?

Honestly I'm okay with that.
Have you tried to rank up Corsairs?

I do want to add though: If you look at the parts breakdown, the Warrior box does include parts so that you can build all the Warriors as whatever build you're wanting. The Dark Rider kit has done that as well with enough spears and enough "generic helmeted" heads to ensure that you can build the whole box as rank and file models without command options if you're wanting to field units of 10 rather than 5.

The one disappointing thing I will say is that the Warrior box has all of the heads attached to the bodies. They look like the current Island of Blood Lothern Sea Guard just without the shields molded on. It kinda ruins a conversion idea I had for some Shades using the spare heads from my Dark Riders.

 Sidstyler wrote:

It makes for some pretty bland-looking armies though, in my opinion. I'm sure I'm not the only one who looks at all the new Dark Elves and thinks every army is going to look exactly the same, and thinks it's just sad how damn near every individual model is in the exact same pose with the only differences being a leader without a helmet or a guy banging a drum/carrying a banner. I mean I expect the armies in WHF to be a little more uniform or regimented, but to the point where every model is in the exact same pose holding their spear the exact same way?

It depends on the army and troop type. For trained, regimented troops like Dark/High Elf spearmen, I think that's pretty reasonable. Chaos Marauders and Savage Orc Boyz? Not so much...

You guys confuse the heck out of me with your Q1-Q4 timelines. Are we talking calendar or fiscal year? The difference being GWs fiscal 2014 Q2 is the end of this month and calendar is next year in June/July timeline.

Also with announcements like this, when it comes to a rumor that would affect the bottom line of the company (discontinuing operations, etc.) - your source should be aware of insider trading laws as this is something that could potentially get you fired and sent to jail. If you had a professional license you could also get it yanked. If it's a rumor that turns out to be true and you invested or pulled your money out to avoid it you can get some harsh penalties and the website could get in trouble for posting it. Just my two cents from a risk management perspective. It's not likely but could be a possibility.

wreeper007 wrote:
Oh I certainly agree that those kits I mentioned are time consuming. I only mentioned them to illustrate the point that plastic can do a lot, especially compared to gw's current offerings.

After building a Real Grade zeta gundam (1/144, about the size of a dreadknight) and seeing the entire internal frame made from different plastics (they molded the frame, then did a second mold that added articulation to the frame) and be completely pose able blew me away. There is nothing stopping gw from doing this with kits like the riptide or tau suits.

Granted, they are all about speed of building. Bandai even made full color kits, with more than 1 color on certain parts, in the 80's.

Imagine having pre colored tau suits. Just clip and go. Same with just about any army. Pre colored ultramarines?

You should see the resin B-Club puts out. Puts forgeworld and failcost to shame. As does pretty much every model firm compared to GW.

The owner of my FLGS told me today that he will not be able to order any Finecast kits beginning in January. GW's new trade item list (valid from January 1st) has accordingly shrunk from 30 to 18 pages. He doesn't know whether Forgeworld will take over producing any kits, but that doesn't matter a lot to him, because he can not order from Forgeworld anyway.

I don't know whether this a fluke because Vienna also has a very large GW store or worldwide policy, but I thought it's a noteworthy little update to the OP.

 Insurgency Walker wrote:

 Kelly502 wrote:
Well, I'm ordering my Thunderfire cannon before it's gone forever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This way I'll own a piece of history...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ordered!!

Good call!
When they go back to metal you will need a drill press to build it!

I second buying the TFC in Finecast as a good idea. No matter how bad the Finecast version is, it would have to be a significant improvement over the metal one. I had to spend hours on mine with a dremel tool.

 Allod wrote:
The owner of my FLGS told me today that he will not be able to order any Finecast kits beginning in January. GW's new trade item list (valid from January 1st) has accordingly shrunk from 30 to 18 pages. He doesn't know whether Forgeworld will take over producing any kits, but that doesn't matter a lot to him, because he can not order from Forgeworld anyway.

I don't know whether this a fluke because Vienna also has a very large GW store or worldwide policy, but I thought it's a noteworthy little update to the OP.

Of course, as Forgeworld don't sell wholesale once/if Finecast moves to them all third party retailers will be cut off. Interesting.

 Allod wrote:
The owner of my FLGS told me today that he will not be able to order any Finecast kits beginning in January. GW's new trade item list (valid from January 1st) has accordingly shrunk from 30 to 18 pages.

More indication of GW's power shrinking. GW seems to have an ambitious business plan to half the sales within 5 years.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 Allod wrote:
The owner of my FLGS told me today that he will not be able to order any Finecast kits beginning in January. GW's new trade item list (valid from January 1st) has accordingly shrunk from 30 to 18 pages. He doesn't know whether Forgeworld will take over producing any kits, but that doesn't matter a lot to him, because he can not order from Forgeworld anyway.

I don't know whether this a fluke because Vienna also has a very large GW store or worldwide policy, but I thought it's a noteworthy little update to the OP.

Of course, as Forgeworld don't sell wholesale once/if Finecast moves to them all third party retailers will be cut off. Interesting.

Wow, interesting is right. And crazy . Wonder what mikhaila thinks of all this- even LESS product that he's allowed to try to sell for GW!

Saw this coming.

Their service department was getting right bummed about the various errors in casts.

I think somebody looked at the numbers along with sales returns and did the math.

An injection molded plastic model is a bit more repeatable than the finecast method (refurbishing the old spincast molds).

Makes sense to hand over the rest to Forge World: they are setup for the dealing with resin true high detail models. I suspect they would touch up the molds a bit so I only expect them getting better under their care.

Good decision on GW's part, I almost have some hope for them...

But..I can't pay forgeworld prices.
Step one of screw lotr/hobbit=4 elites for 20 euro in failcast.
Step 2=half infantry box model count.
3:Up hobbit box prices by a Tenner
4:don't do ANYTHING to compensate for being ten euros more expensive then a box of boyz.Whats that?We get twelve models?You get 190 components in one infantry kit.More bitz then 10 boxes of LOTR stuff.
5:make all heroes and elites unavalible though retail
6:???
7:No profit.

Regarding your last "no profit" line, Da krimson. I know that was a bit of a joke, but I have to say: GW will likely continue to make excellent profits on this, which is basically a very large cost cutting move if they move Finecast over to direct only / FW.

But what they are giving up is market share. All those kits not being sold in stores, by independents, etc.

This seems to be a bit of GW's strategy the last several years- aggressively cut back services and costs, to increase profits. But what you lose, is market share, making room for other companies on game store shelves, at events, etc.

In the end this is really good for diversity in wargaming, but a really poor decision for GW regarding their long-term hold on the market, imo. It will look great for the cost savings, though, and thus really attractive in the short term.

This is assuming kits that are Finecast go to "direct only", of course, as was rumored above.

Presumably people will also have to factor in Forgeworld's stupid shipping and handling fees too. Sucks for the people that just need a character model or two unless they happen to need £200 of extra stuff or whatever the free S&H threshold is.

I think I am in the minority lol, I prefer Fincast to Plastic when it comes to painting up the models. You do not even need to basecoat it, you can just paint straight onto it...

 RiTides wrote:
Regarding your last "no profit" line, Da krimson. I know that was a bit of a joke, but I have to say: GW will likely continue to make excellent profits on this, which is basically a very large cost cutting move if they move Finecast over to direct only / FW.

But what they are giving up is market share. All those kits not being sold in stores, by independents, etc.

This seems to be a bit of GW's strategy the last several years- aggressively cut back services and costs, to increase profits. But what you lose, is market share, making room for other companies on game store shelves, at events, etc.

In the end this is really good for diversity in wargaming, but a really poor decision for GW regarding their long-term hold on the market, imo. It will look great for the cost savings, though, and thus really attractive in the short term.

This is assuming kits that are Finecast go to "direct only", of course, as was rumored above.

One of the reasons there are 20 million different kinds of Coke is to dominate the shelf space.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Allod wrote:
The owner of my FLGS told me today that he will not be able to order any Finecast kits beginning in January. GW's new trade item list (valid from January 1st) has accordingly shrunk from 30 to 18 pages.

More indication of GW's power shrinking. GW seems to have an ambitious business plan to half the sales within 5 years.

OR it lines up with a major shift to plastic and they want to reduce the number of Finecast kits to 0 as fast as possible and don't want to do a "buy back" like they did with metal models when Finecast came out.

But I suppose we can just assume Kroot has some kind of inside track on this that we don't know about and he's divining the future for us on this.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

OR it lines up with a major shift to plastic and they want to reduce the number of Finecast kits to 0 as fast as possible and don't want to do a "buy back" like they did with metal models when Finecast came out.

And they will replace twelve pages' worth of Finecast and metal items with plastic in what timeframe?

I do not know whether this is an actual international policy or just the continuation of GW's little vendetta against my FLGS, but IF it is the former, it's basically a full retreat from the independent retail market, as these simply can not sell you a legal army anymore, with the exception of Empire, Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines, if memory serves.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Allod wrote:
The owner of my FLGS told me today that he will not be able to order any Finecast kits beginning in January. GW's new trade item list (valid from January 1st) has accordingly shrunk from 30 to 18 pages.

More indication of GW's power shrinking. GW seems to have an ambitious business plan to half the sales within 5 years.

OR it lines up with a major shift to plastic and they want to reduce the number of Finecast kits to 0 as fast as possible and don't want to do a "buy back" like they did with metal models when Finecast came out.

But I suppose we can just assume Kroot has some kind of inside track on this that we don't know about and he's divining the future for us on this.

That would only make sense if GW weren't pulling well selling plastic kits and making them direct only.

They do? Which ones are those?

 Allod wrote:
They do? Which ones are those?

So far the only one I've heard of was the Wave Serpent which sold out so far they ran out of boxes for it and had to do extra runs on it to catch up.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
OR it lines up with a major shift to plastic and they want to reduce the number of Finecast kits to 0 as fast as possible and don't want to do a "buy back" like they did with metal models when Finecast came out.

We all know what you are trying to imply, and no, they don't plan on doing them anytime soon .

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Allod wrote:
They do? Which ones are those?

So far the only one I've heard of was the Wave Serpent which sold out so far they ran out of boxes for it and had to do extra runs on it to catch up.

Kroot Carnivores purportedly are going Direct Only.

Altruizine wrote:
Plastic can't match metal/resin in terms of "detail per cubic inch" but that's not the only expression of detail.

For example, metal versions of the Coven Throne (with it's "outflung" dynamism) or something like a Doomwheel or Drop Pod (with their "hollow" 3D details) would have never been possible in metal.

Then again, I admit that's a bit of a strawman argument, since we're pretty much talking character models in this thread, and I think almost anybody would admit plastic is superior for larger kits.

Dude, you're doing it wrong! Never admit to a strawman argument, at least until the witch sets him on fire!

I pretty much agree, but I will add a rider that for kits with a lot of variants plastic also works well - I loved the old Empire halberdier/swordsmen models, with the choice of legs, torsos, heads, and arms.

Somehow... the recent plastics have not lived up to that potential, being mostly of a monoposal (<== Look! A new word!) nature.

And the single pose results in more crappy looking undercuts.

As for GW, Hasbro, and buyouts... I think that GW wants to be bought out, but I don't think that it will happen. That the things that they are doing that they hope make them more attractive to acquisition instead are working like a leper's bell.

The Auld Grump

Off topic:

boyd wrote:
Also with announcements like this, when it comes to a rumor that would affect the bottom line of the company (discontinuing operations, etc.) - your source should be aware of insider trading laws as this is something that could potentially get you fired and sent to jail. If you had a professional license you could also get it yanked. If it's a rumor that turns out to be true and you invested or pulled your money out to avoid it you can get some harsh penalties and the website could get in trouble for posting it. Just my two cents from a risk management perspective. It's not likely but could be a possibility.

This is the exact opposite of the truth. DakkaDakka literally cannot be guilty of insider trading because anything posted here is not insider knowledge - it is knowledge that any halfwit with an internet connection can learn. If anything, it would immunise insider traders against prosecution, because the knowledge is now publicly available.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
OR it lines up with a major shift to plastic and they want to reduce the number of Finecast kits to 0 as fast as possible and don't want to do a "buy back" like they did with metal models when Finecast came out.

We all know what you are trying to imply, and no, they don't plan on doing them anytime soon .

Actually I wasn't thinking about Sisters but stuff like Stormtroopers and Techmarines/Servitors.

If the "FW takes over casting duties" thing holds true we may see Resin Sisters in the next year or so though. I'd be play wit that as long as they came in squads at a decent price.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
OR it lines up with a major shift to plastic and they want to reduce the number of Finecast kits to 0 as fast as possible and don't want to do a "buy back" like they did with metal models when Finecast came out.

We all know what you are trying to imply, and no, they don't plan on doing them anytime soon .

Actually I wasn't thinking about Sisters but stuff like Stormtroopers and Techmarines/Servitors.

If the "FW takes over casting duties" thing holds true we may see Resin Sisters in the next year or so though. I'd be play wit that as long as they came in squads at a decent price.

Well IG are £38 for 10, and SM are £34/£32 for 5.

As a Canadian that is sadly not to unreasonable compared to the current sister's prices.

good news ! to bad i just bought 3 models for my demon army that are finecast Guess i have no choice now.

I guess this why one of the Vindicare sculpts and the tau ethereal with two hand weapons have both disappeared from the website...

Now I'm in a quandary; do I panic buy the sculpts I've always liked, but never got around to and have to deal with a whole lot of trouble with fine cast, or do I put blind faith in GW to re release them in proper resin?!