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This is going to end up being a very stupid question, but what on earth do people see in power axes?

The way i see it is this...

Strike last like a powerfist, but without the strength or AP....... I.E. Lose^2


so why do it?

Why not sword for initiative, or if you're going to strike last, make it worth the wait and use a powerfist?

I don't get it

It's 10 points cheaper than a powerfist.
It's not a specialist weapon, so you get an extra attack with a CCW.
It's AP2, unlike a power sword.

Everything labmouse said +

Axe = S6
Fist = S8

In most cases where you need Ap2, S6 is already enough to do the job, making the ace the more economic choice.

Isn't the axe +1 STR?

 labmouse42 wrote:
Isn't the axe +1 STR?

Yes.

But in general,

Axe = cost efficient infantry killer

PowerFist = sometimes necessary tank/MC/Walker killer.

In general it could be argued that they're better on non characters.

Axe is significantly cheaper and gives a bonus attack if the model has a bolt pistol. And often, the low-initiative models you want to give axes to (IG Sergeants) pay only 10 points for them, making the deal even better.

Frankly, I use the axe more often than I use the power fist. Anything good enough to justify a power fist should really be using a thunderhammer (or chainfist, depending).

I think S3 models really have to decide between a Maul and Axe in general (unless there is a force multiplier like hammerhand)

...or they're Eldar who can actually benefit from a Lance.

Because I don't like my CC units to auto-lose when they come up against 2+ saves.

 Mr.Omega wrote:
Because I don't like my CC units to auto-lose when they come up against 2+ saves.

This. Just wish I could have some kind of Nemesis Force Axe so i could mix a few in with my Knights.

But then I guess that's what Daemonhammers are for...

BunnyCommando wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:
Because I don't like my CC units to auto-lose when they come up against 2+ saves.

This. Just wish I could have some kind of Nemesis Force Axe so i could mix a few in with my Knights.

But then I guess that's what Daemonhammers are for...

Daemonhammer is 10 pts for a S10 Force Concussion weapon with Daemonbane that if on a Character can be Mastercrafted for 5 pts.

GKs make out especially well in the Special Weapons department.

I think the only GK with access to and axe is the Techmarine...and it's not force.

karlosovic wrote:
This is going to end up being a very stupid question, but what on earth do people see in power axes?

The way i see it is this...

Strike last like a powerfist, but without the strength or AP....... I.E. Lose^2


so why do it?

Why not sword for initiative, or if you're going to strike last, make it worth the wait and use a powerfist?

I don't get it

on a champion the Axe has 3 attacks, a Fist has 2 attacks. The fist costs 10 points more in most cases. They are both AP2.

Assuming you are str4 and your opponent is T4 you are paying 10 points to do less wounds.

karlosovic wrote:

Strike last like a powerfist, but without the strength or AP....... I.E. Lose^2
I don't get it

The ax has the same AP as the fist, so perhaps you dont get it because you dont understand the rules correctly.

An axe is a cheap ap 2 melee option that is great if your model has a pistol or CCW for +1. Also some models don't have access to power fists.

 juraigamer wrote:
An axe is a cheap ap 2 melee option that is great if your model has a pistol or CCW for +1. Also some models don't have access to power fists.

It was also invented to screw with Dante.

I shoot those annoying guys running around in 2+ armor saves, even if they drop in my face in a Drop Pod. I either shoot them or run away with my hands in the air like I'm about to be infected with leprosy.

Also worth mentioning is that in some codices taking terminator armour automatically unlocks a power weapon, and of the three options available the power axe is often viewed most favourably, particularly by models with a 2+ save who have a decent chance to shrug off being hit first.

Some of these models who have terminator armour do not have an option for power fists. Other players may wish to keep their HQ survivable with the terminator armour but not spend too many points on him.

I always take 3 in my deathcompany squad... they can't be challenged out and, while charging out of a landraider with a chaplain, you have 15 WS 5 Str 6 attacks that reroll to hit and to wound... it's ridiculous. The other 7 usually kill most of a deathwing/terminator squad through weight of attacks but those 15 attacks typically finish the fight for me.

karlosovic wrote:
This is going to end up being a very stupid question, but what on earth do people see in power axes?

The way i see it is this...

Strike last like a powerfist, but without the strength or AP....... I.E. Lose^2


so why do it?

Why not sword for initiative, or if you're going to strike last, make it worth the wait and use a powerfist?

I don't get it

1) Power Axes are cheaper point wise. Usually 10 points cheaper, which is huge. Some units they are effectively free. For example, Wolf Guard TDA come with Power Weapons so you get to pick if its a Sword, Axe, or Maul.

2) They are still AP 2, just like a Power Fist, and give you +1 Strength.

3) You get an extra close combat attack since its not a Specialist Weapon. This usually edges the Power Axe out over the Power Fist for number of wounds caused (at least for MEQ/TEQ units). 3 Attacks at WS 4 S 5 and AP 2 gives you roughly 1 Unsaved Wound, while 2 Attacks at WS 4 S 8 and AP 2 gives you roughly 0.83 Unsaved Wounds. Sure, you miss out on Instant Death for T 3 and T 4 models and aren't wounding T 5 or higher models quite as easily, but look at what you are usually fighting: Single wound GEQ, MEQ and TEQ. So its better in those cases to have the Power Axe.

4) Swords are only AP 3, and so are rather poor choices for Independent Characters (they make sense on Sergeants sometimes). ICs are more likely to be in a Challenge against someone with a 2+ armor save, so the AP 2 from the Axe helps quite a lot.

5) Unwieldy is only bad if you would normally strike first. Anything Initiative 5 against MEQ, the MEQ may as well have an Axe or Fist.

That's about it really.

Thunder Hammers, PFists, and PK's also instant kill and deny FNP to T4 when being used by a Str 4 model.

Multiwound and FNP are common enough to always give my Nobz and Bosses PK's. plus we don't have the grenades you do. As said above, power swords are great for non-characters.

Last game I played a Wolf Lord and TWC with Fists put 5 wounds on my Nob Bikerz with BikerBoss. Str 5 doubles to Str 10, which would Instant Kill the T5 Nobz.

I put all 5 wounds on my T6 biker boss, he passes 2/5 with 5++ Inv save and passes 2 FNP saves so only takes 1 wound. Had I put those wounds on my Nobz I would have taken a total of 6 instead of 1. I win combat, by 4, he fails Ld and TWC run off the table. He concedes. The entire game revolved around Str, T, Inv saves, and FNP in just one round of combat (3rd turn).

Nobz will always take the PK to instant kill marines and deny FNP.

 ductvader wrote:

BunnyCommando wrote:

 Mr.Omega wrote:
Because I don't like my CC units to auto-lose when they come up against 2+ saves.

This. Just wish I could have some kind of Nemesis Force Axe so i could mix a few in with my Knights.

But then I guess that's what Daemonhammers are for...

Daemonhammer is 10 pts for a S10 Force Concussion weapon with Daemonbane that if on a Character can be Mastercrafted for 5 pts.

GKs make out especially well in the Special Weapons department.

I think the only GK with access to and axe is the Techmarine...and it's not force.

On Termies and Paladins the Hammer is actually free .



You are correct in saying that about the Techmarine. Out of all the Grey Knights (the chapter, not the codex list) the Techmarine is 1 of 3 units without a Nemesis Force Weapon (the others being Draigo and Crowe) and out of those 3, 1 of the two that don't have a Force Weapon at all. And out of those 2, the only model in the chapter capable of havin a power weapon or bolter.

 PipeAlley wrote:
Thunder Hammers, PFists, and PK's also instant kill and deny FNP to T4 when being used by a Str 4 model.

Multiwound and FNP are common enough to always give my Nobz and Bosses PK's. plus we don't have the grenades you do. As said above, power swords are great for non-characters.

Last game I played a Wolf Lord and TWC with Fists put 5 wounds on my Nob Bikerz with BikerBoss. Str 5 doubles to Str 10, which would Instant Kill the T5 Nobz.

I put all 5 wounds on my T6 biker boss, he passes 2/5 with 5++ Inv save and passes 2 FNP saves so only takes 1 wound. Had I put those wounds on my Nobz I would have taken a total of 6 instead of 1. I win combat, by 4, he fails Ld and TWC run off the table. He concedes. The entire game revolved around Str, T, Inv saves, and FNP in just one round of combat (3rd turn).

Nobz will always take the PK to instant kill marines and deny FNP.

if i remeber right Orks dont really have a power weapon option do they??

Orks "technically" have one but except for an overcosted item on the Big Mek, we never get to use it. Burnas. If we do not shoot them, they are AP3 in assault. If i could upgrade my boyz with a burna for 10pts or even 15pts each rather than bigshootas i would every damn time just because the 3-9 (on the charge) AP3 attacks can easily make me win a lot of situations. i wouldnt even use it in overwatch since i already got like 26 Shoota Boyz doing that (and a slugga nob lol).

Yes we have an entire unit with them. At 15pts a model and theyre just boyz when the shiz hits the fan, not worth it. I dont want an entire unit of them unless i can make them bulky and durable, because they will be focus fired to hell and back lol. If i could equip them on Nobz i could see some interesting tactics there.

Also i never noticed the Power Axe isnt considered a two-handed weapon. Dafuq? Really weird that a weapon that gives you the impression its oddly handled for some reason so you strike slower than usual, doesnt require two hands lol. Then again i might wanna keep my mouth shut since my Big Choppas are +2str, no ap, but do not hurt initiative (I3 sometimes does come in handy believe it or not)

They have Burnas, which come default on Burna boyz, they're AP3 if they didn't fire their template (or Overwatch) that player turn. A Big Mek can get one for 80% the cost o a Power Klaw!!

So no bargain there.

They also have the option to use an AP dash 2 handed weapon which adds 2 to Str at initiative. Not really worth it IMHO but others swear by them (Big Choppa)

 cowmonaut wrote:
Wolf Guard TDA come with Power Weapons so you get to pick if its a Sword, Axe, or Maul.

2) They are still AP 2, just like a Power Fist, and give you +1 Strength.

3) You get an extra close combat attack since its not a Specialist Weapon.

Units in TDA don't keep their pistols so they won't get the extra attack unless you buy them another weapon (which negates the cost benefit)
I must have got mixed up about the AP value, probably thinking of 2nd Ed where PAxe had less save modifier than a PFist - a lot of the breadth has been lost from the game

So OK, it's about saving cost.... and probably a better deal on non-terminators due to the extra attack

cowmonaut wrote:4) Swords are only AP 3, and so are rather poor choices for Independent Characters (they make sense on Sergeants sometimes). ICs are more likely to be in a Challenge against someone with a 2+ armor save, so the AP 2 from the Axe helps quite a lot.

What I'm mostly worried about here is my Wolf Guard battle leaders in units with no IC. If they're striking last in Power Armour, they could be quite easily killed off before getting to attack

cowmonaut wrote:5) Unwieldy is only bad if you would normally strike first. Anything Initiative 5 against MEQ, the MEQ may as well have an Axe or Fist.

My issue is as a marine player, strike last *does* effect the order. All my I4 Space Wolves have a real choice to make when fighting my local meta which is almost all I4 / I3 (other marines, IG, Orks).
So now... is it worth striking last for +1 str?
Well.... it's cheaper and some models get an extra attack... so maybe

The thing is... in 5th Ed everyone wanted Power Fists.
What's changed?
PAxe didn't change price, and could still be benefit from +1 A from a pistol in off hand, and in 5th Ed *all* power weapons ignore *all* armour, so it didnt become more effective there either.
So the only difference is we trade +1 Str for the ability to striking at initiative in an environment that allows challenges

Maybe I'm asking the wrong question... maybe it's not so much why people like Power Axes now.... maybe the real question is they weren't the flavour of the month before now?

power fist > axe in all aspects except points. This meta seems to be of the idea of "more boyz, less toyz" personally I almost always run PFs IF I can keep that unit from being challenged (such as a VV w/ a fist or sang priest w/ a fist w/ a Sgt to soak the challenge)

the thing is, you look at it this way, a Paxe is 10 pts cheaper, due to new challenge rules a Paxe would do about the same as a fist, except cheaper (sometimes untrue, IE ID a HQ choice or some other shenanigan) but overall, Paxe gets the job done, for cheaper than the fist. I do not like the idea of the Paxe personally.

Eldar get one Power Fist, on a Striking Scorp exarch but it strikes at Init. Their entire codex is all about power weapons otherwise.

Orks only get Power Fists, except for the odd Burna ability.

IG gets some Power Fists, but it is limited access to Vet Squads and HQ choices, otherwise they are all about power weapons as well.

Chaos can only have a Thunder Hammer on a Hellbrute, which I find funny and no Storm Shields at all. Their Terminators have to be upgraded to Power Fists, but start out only with power weapons.

Ironically, Vanilla Marine Assault Terminators can only have TH/SS or LCs and Standard Terminators can only have Power Fists and their Sergeant can only have a power sword.

The Power Axe is a very good weapon, one of two potions IMO. The only other option is the maul because of the +2 Str. I am just not sold on the value of a power sword, but sooooo many figs have it modeled that way it is hard to not use it if you want to keep WYSIWYG.

I really really really wish Bloodletters could've had their Hellblades choose which type of power weapon they would be, so long as the whole unit has the same type. I got a bunch of those cool 4th ed. ones with the choppy axes! Mauls would be neat on them too, or maybe they could just pick between swords and axes, but darn it, that would've been COOOL.

I like to mix them in with my crusaders. Why? Because 9 times out of 10, I'll be swinging last anyway so I might as well get the strength and ap bonus while doing it.

sadly frost axes cost as much as power fists or i would be using them

karlosovic wrote:

Maybe I'm asking the wrong question... maybe it's not so much why people like Power Axes now.... maybe the real question is they weren't the flavour of the month before now?

Because all power weapons used to ignore armour, now that they have AP values the AP2 of an axe is better than the AP3 of a sword. The axe didnt get better, other power weapons got worse.

Chaos chump wrote:

karlosovic wrote:

Maybe I'm asking the wrong question... maybe it's not so much why people like Power Axes now.... maybe the real question is they weren't the flavour of the month before now?

Because all power weapons used to ignore armour, now that they have AP values the AP2 of an axe is better than the AP3 of a sword. The axe didnt get better, other power weapons got worse.

This heavily depends on your meta...personally I am facing a ton of Xenos right now and the real question for my Eldar is Spear or Maul...

And once bugs come out that Maul is going to look a whole lot tastier for everyone else too.