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I'm speechless.

I...

...

A weird mix of deep sadness and burning anger.

Go on, I will go cry in a corner. I will be back in a minute or so...

This story makes me sad.

Here's a followup article. Mostly the same, but with a bit more information about the conditions, dead child found buried and the sentencing process.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/08/brian-shannon-gore-guilty-daughter-cage-trial_n_2837771.html
They are rightfully vague, but it sounds like the poor girl who was found may well be serverely damaged for life.

I don't quite have the words, but ever since I had kids and especially since my daughter was born this kind of stuff twists me up inside in a way that's hard to explain.

 Eilif wrote:
Here's a followup article. Mostly the same, but with a bit more information about the conditions, dead child found buried and the sentencing process.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/08/brian-shannon-gore-guilty-daughter-cage-trial_n_2837771.html
They are rightfully vague, but it sounds like the poor girl who was found may well be serverely damaged for life.

I don't quite have the words, but ever since I had kids and especially since my daughter was born this kind of stuff twists me up inside in a way that's hard to explain.

I know exactly what you mean. I can't see stuff like this without putting my children in their place, and it fills me with so much rage and pain...

 -Shrike- wrote:

Manchu is making perfect sense here. If the person is an adult and goes to church regularly, the commonly held perception is that they are attempting to become a better person morally.

Not around here. It just means they socialize with other church-goers. That's it.

And yes, I have been a regular participant in many church groups over the years, so I have seen all kinds of jerks, as well as some of the greatest people ever. (I like theology.) All of them tended to be in their respective churches pretty much out of convenience--it was their parents' church, they were all friends already, it was the only near-campus group of their denomination, etc. I have rarely met anyone who joined a church specifically to make himself or herself 'better', although I'm sure it's happened.

 gossipmeng wrote:
"He went to church and everything." - What a wonderful man :O !

It's the "and everything" that opens the door very wide to interpretation.

I.... My....
Goddesses grace, thats totally fethed up

I would never percieve anyone to be bettering themselves by going to church, you can get those same messages from sunday morning cartoons. I see a Fear of death or eternal damnation to be the prime motivator, people who seek to absolve themselves of their morally reprehensible actions.

That or sheeple who have known nothing else.

I will admit I have seen selfless churchgoers who are indeed there to help people but id say this is a minority.

the correct punishment for these people:
12 years, as the child was 6.
forced into individual cells, soundproofed, as she was in a cage.
wearing nothing but diapers and shirts, with no toilet facility, the diaper changed weekly, as was done to the girl.
allowed to drind 3 glasses of water a day (average 14 daily for an adult normaly).
allowed to eat only strips of their skin, cut from the thighs, dryed into jurky.
after this they should be released.

That is just.....disturbing that you think that is ok. How does this make you different from what they did?

I think it's time to put Alfndrake on my ignore list. /shudder

 malfred wrote:
I think it's time to put Alfndrake on my ignore list. /shudder

Why? I didn't do anything wrong.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
That is just.....disturbing that you think that is ok. How does this make you different from what they did?

Simple. It's twice as bad as whatthey did, factoring in the dead child.

That still doesn't make you any better, if anything it makes you worse then the parents were. With that logic, if someone killed your mom, then by default, they have BOTH their parents killed as punishment. That's exactly the same logic.

 KingCracker wrote:
That still doesn't make you any better, if anything it makes you worse then the parents were. With that logic, if someone killed your mom, then by default, they have BOTH their parents killed as punishment. That's exactly the same logic.

Well if someone kills my mom, I'm out for blood, American Justice System be damned! They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way!

But yeah, Shrouded Lord, the best thing we can do is lock these two up for such a long time that they forget what the sun looks like, or give them a nice cocktail of Sodium thiopental, Pancuronium bromide, and Potassium chloride.

I thought the Chicago way was deep dish pizza

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I thought the Chicago way was deep dish pizza

Apparently someone hasn't seen the Untouchables...

I'm not entirely sure why the woman's comment about church attendance has become the focus of this conversation, but I'll play.

I'm not sure why some folks can't understand that someone who has presumably had a positive experience spending time with fellow church members or having been helped by a church (not necessarily their own) would express surprise that one of those people had committed a heinous crime.

Clearly those who have negative or differing church experiences might not make the same comment, but then, their perspective is different. It's still no reason to belittle this woman's surprise.

I for one have had a very positive experience in the church I joined 8 years ago. It's mostly comprised of people who have joined the church (rather than born into it), it's as focused on community service (health center, community development, legal aid, etc) as it on evangelism, and generally is a group of people trying to better themselves and their community.

It's VERY far from perfect, but it's entirely likely that I would have a similar surprised reaction if one of our church members turned out to be guilty of such a monstrous deed.

I follow the same code I have in all threads where dispicable human beings have played a role: sterilize both of them so they can never have children again. Anyone who argues against that, based on what these parents have done, accepts their "right" to do this same thing again and belongs on the ignore list of every decent poster on Dakka. These people have no right to bring further suffering on children they would produce. These people shouldn't really have rights at all, come to think of it.

Im pretty sure jail removes all rights

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Im pretty sure jail removes all rights

The chair/lethal inj/firing squad removes all rights.

A visit from the reaper is final.

kingleir wrote:
I would never percieve anyone to be bettering themselves by going to church, you can get those same messages from sunday morning cartoons. I see a Fear of death or eternal damnation to be the prime motivator, people who seek to absolve themselves of their morally reprehensible actions.

That or sheeple who have known nothing else.

I will admit I have seen selfless churchgoers who are indeed there to help people but id say this is a minority.

But you said sheeple, which means the entirety of your post should be thrown out.

 Frazzled wrote:

kingleir wrote:
I would never percieve anyone to be bettering themselves by going to church, you can get those same messages from sunday morning cartoons. I see a Fear of death or eternal damnation to be the prime motivator, people who seek to absolve themselves of their morally reprehensible actions.

That or sheeple who have known nothing else.

I will admit I have seen selfless churchgoers who are indeed there to help people but id say this is a minority.

But you said sheeple, which means the entirety of your post should be thrown out.

I'd have to agree with Frazzled on the auto-throw-out.

More specifically though, I'd be curious what special insight you have into the Millions (perhaps billions) of churchgoers out there to know that their prime motivation is:
-Escaping damnation
-Absolve themselves of morally reprehensible deeds
-They are sheeple following the crowd.

Not to deny Salvation and Forgiveness can be important motivators and components of many faiths, but religious people (like all people) are far more complex than you give them credit for, and can rarely be reduced to a "prime motivator". Mass stereotyping like this is dehumanizing. I find it reprehensible whether based on race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.... or religion.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
That still doesn't make you any better, if anything it makes you worse then the parents were. With that logic, if someone killed your mom, then by default, they have BOTH their parents killed as punishment. That's exactly the same logic.

Well if someone kills my mom, I'm out for blood, American Justice System be damned! They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way!

But yeah, Shrouded Lord, the best thing we can do is lock these two up for such a long time that they forget what the sun looks like, or give them a nice cocktail of Sodium thiopental, Pancuronium bromide, and Potassium chloride.

see, killing someone is TOO EASY ON THEM.
locking someone up for their entire life = punishment.
killing someone= eternal darkness for them, they wont anylonger feel pain, which is the point of punishment.

btw, if someone killed my mother, i would lock them up, and every monday, i would shoot them through the left hand. after th hand didnt exist, it would be the right hand. than the left foot. than the right foot. than i would slowly, week by week, chop off their limbs. than slit their neck.
this is also what should happen to the 9-11 five.

But at that point, are you doing it for social justice and the betterment of society, or just because that's what gets you off?

You have all the subtlety of a 13 year old trying to sound tough.

 Fafnir wrote:
But at that point, are you doing it for social justice and the betterment of society, or just because that's what gets you off?

You have all the subtlety of a 13 year old trying to sound tough.

lets think about this. when someone has killed someone else (for melicious perposes) there is simply no point killing that person, now, if we are going to let them go, EXTREME punsishment is nessacery, if they are going to be locked up for ever, than leave them to rot.

 the shrouded lord wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
That still doesn't make you any better, if anything it makes you worse then the parents were. With that logic, if someone killed your mom, then by default, they have BOTH their parents killed as punishment. That's exactly the same logic.

Well if someone kills my mom, I'm out for blood, American Justice System be damned! They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way!

But yeah, Shrouded Lord, the best thing we can do is lock these two up for such a long time that they forget what the sun looks like, or give them a nice cocktail of Sodium thiopental, Pancuronium bromide, and Potassium chloride.

see, killing someone is TOO EASY ON THEM.
locking someone up for their entire life = punishment.
killing someone= eternal darkness for them, they wont anylonger feel pain, which is the point of punishment.

btw, if someone killed my mother, i would lock them up, and every monday, i would shoot them through the left hand. after th hand didnt exist, it would be the right hand. than the left foot. than the right foot. than i would slowly, week by week, chop off their limbs. than slit their neck.
this is also what should happen to the 9-11 five.

Then, depending on how they offed your mother, you would be just as bad, if not worse than them.

Im pretty sure that is also the mark of a sociopath

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Im pretty sure that is also the mark of a sociopath

Also kids who want to sound tough.

An eye for an eye makes the world go blind... or something.