All-out war: Imperium vs Necrons

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**Stonerhino**

You are missing the point. The Necrons literally have technology that shuts the warp down and are completely uncurruptable by Chaos.

The "Dice Gods" are pointless if the Necrons can figuratively prevent Chaos fom rolling any dice.

@Wyzilla: You are correct. But that is why the Necrons build the pillars (like on Cadia). They contain and eleminate warp breachs. And as seen in The Serpent Beneath, can cause warp storms. That both prevent travel and communication via astropath.

The Necron endgame trumps any race that depends on the warp. Especially Chaos because they literally have no answer for them.

= Tome of Fate page 107: The Necrons are anathema to the forces of Chaos, but especially to the servents of Tzeentch. They have no souls to corrupt, their every action is orders and logical to the point of impossibility, and their living metal bodies are entirely resistant to the mutating effects of the warp.

**TheRedWingArmada**

Stonerhino wrote:
You are missing the point. The Necrons literally have technology that shuts the warp down and are completely uncurruptable by Chaos.

The "Dice Gods" are pointless if the Necrons can figuratively prevent Chaos fom rolling any dice.

@Wyzilla: You are correct. But that is why the Necrons build the pillars (like on Cadia). They contain and eleminate warp breachs. And as seen in The Serpent Beneath, can cause warp storms. That both prevent travel and communication via astropath.

The Necron endgame trumps any race that depends on the warp. Especially Chaos because they literally have no answer for them.

= Tome of Fate page 107: The Necrons are anathema to the forces of Chaos, but especially to the servents of Tzeentch. They have no souls to corrupt, their every action is orders and logical to the point of impossibility, and their living metal bodies are entirely resistant to the mutating effects of the warp.

No, I got the point. You are missing the point when I say that a) The Warp will reach into another race to destroy that tech, as it has done in the past, 2) The Necrons are still sleepy and need to wake up first and III) Other Necron players have alluded to the fact that they may have tech that nullifies warp fields, but the Necrons themselves are still subject to taint, albiet highly resistant, and on top of that, they are succumbing to their own diseases and trauma's (like the Flayer Syndrome or w/e). If were more up and up about the Necrons, I could be more specific, but those are points that aren't just being carried by me. Other Necron fans are suggesting this as well.

End Game means "You beat everyone else, congrats." So yeah, the Necron End Game is imposing if they wake up fast enough. If they don't, see another races End Game (like Chaos).

And look, this isn't all based on conjecture, fandom and plot armor. If the Necrons have been devoured by Tyranids, and Chaos can push the Tyranids around with Warp Storms and Chaos Space Marines, then they could drive them towards Tomb Worlds and let the Tyranids run amok. Probably even help them by destroying some of that pesky tech in the process.

I've already given an example "Coreworld of Colchis" where the Necrons have been trumped by Chaos, and not even Chaos Marines but Chaos Daemons. So the Necrons are not immortal. Not anymore anyways. If they were, this wouldn't be Warhammer anymore. It would be Necron-hammer. Where Necron Dynasties are fighting each other and nothing else exists. Of course we can have Chaos-hammer too if their End Game pans out.

Also, the Dice Gods don't really exist in the WH40K universe. That is tabletop talk.

Whatever you said to Wyzilla doesn't make sense. They build pylons to prevent warp breaches....but they can cause warp storms.....and this prevents travel and communications which is relative to the non-warp using 'Crons? And as I put above, Chaos has an answer. It's called "Conspire to make others deal with your problems." That's how Chaos actually deals with most of their problems since the Ruinous Powers themselves are rooted to the Warp and unable to breach Real Space (yet).

Edit: Missed the quote the first time, but I'm wondering how many times a subject like that has been supposedly answered and changed. For example, the Chaos Gods have always existed...but they have Birthdays....or they did. We're not so sure now. ;>>

**Stonerhino**

The Necron endgame also includes cutting the warp off from the material universe. Whichs means no warp travel, no psykers, no warp storms and no way for Chaos to currupt another race. It would be the same as trying to play a game of 40k when one side gets to roll no dice.

It is not a matter of can Chaos defeat the Necrons in a battle. It is the fact that if that Tomb World had an active null field matrix then those deamons would not have even been there in the first place. Every world that has the matrix is effectively impossible for for Chaos to attack. Unless they use another race. Even then the attack is no different then if that race attacked on its own. Now if the Necrons construct pylons and use them to cause warp storms. Then no warp travel based race can get to them. Repeat this attack, install a null field then build pylons and there is nothing Chaos can do to stop it.

**TheRedWingArmada**

Stonerhino wrote:
The Necron endgame also includes cutting the warp off from the material universe. Whichs means no warp travel, no psykers, no warp storms and no way for Chaos to currupt another race. It would be the same as trying to play a game of 40k when one side gets to roll no dice.

It is not a matter of can Chaos defeat the Necrons in a battle. It is the fact that if that Tomb World had an active null field matrix then those deamons would not have even been there in the first place. Every world that has the matrix is effectively impossible for for Chaos to attack. Unless they use another race. Even then the attack is no different then if that race attacked on its own. Now if the Necrons construct pylons and use them to cause warp storms. Then no warp travel based race can get to them. Repeat this attack, install a null field then build pylons and there is nothing Chaos can do to stop it.

-sigh- I'm not arguing with you about what the Necron End Game can do because it's the Necron End Game. I can say that in the Chaos End Game, they effectively destroy all the tomb worlds (using their own force or others enslaved), then enslave the Necrons outright with their null fields down and blah-blah-blah. That can happen because it's an End Game! But right now, the Necrons are not that race. They're sleepy, in some disrepair, maybe a little groggy and they're waking up with other races walking all over their caskets, some of them outright reliving that scene in Pandorum where the guy wakes up and is immediately eaten alive by the other mutants on the ship.

"Unless they use another race..." Absolutely right! They will use another race because that is how Chaos deals with problems like the Necrons, as opposed to just rolling over, dying and saying "Oh for f@#<s sakes!"

And it is considerably different when a force is being herded by Chaos as opposed to them just attacking on their own. First and foremost, Chaos is going to drive them towards Chaos' objective, and once that objective is down, get ready for the s#!7 to hit the fan because it will. Tyranids may not focus on a null field generator unless they had the idea planted in their heads somehow. Same with Orks. Actually MORE with Orks because they're not very resistant to the Warp in the first place, and they don't really care either.

Now what is this crap about "Pylons can make Warpstorms that the Warp-born are affected by?" This is funny to me. This is like saying the pylons can create daemons to fight off the daemons long enough for a null field to be put up? Or is this why Chaos can't use other races, because the storm will block them off? Because this is fool, once again, since a large determining factor of getting through the warp in the first place is with the Chaos God's blessings themselves. On top of that, you're still assuming that these pylons get up faster than either Chaos or any other force can get their to stop them, which Chaos would absolutely never let happen considering they are relatively omnipotent and will bond together if the strength of one is not enough to get a job done that threatens the Warp. They've done it before. They'll do it again.

Look... it is the height of arrogance to say "No matter what you do, we'll win" because the creative mind (and trust me, the Warp is the most creative mind in the entire universe, hands down) will always find a way around such claims. This is like Dorn saying "My fortresses are indestructible!" Sorry boss. You're wrong. There are Iron Warriors with the exact opposite claim.

So, in the Necron End Game, do the Necrons win? Sure. No argument there.
Just like in the Chaos End Game, Chaos wins.

They've got to get there first and the Necrons are not invulnerable, as I have proven over and again. And that really should be the end of the discussion since I'm giving you what you are saying with the addendum of "if they get there in the first place." Which they likely won't.

Logistically, it's impossible when you consider the threats their little niche is under.

>

**Broly**

In my honest opinion, none of the factions can actually beat Necrons. They simply cannot lose in a total war vs. present races because the galaxy is their b**ch.

If they ever get overwhelmed, they can just force a stalemate by blowing up the galaxy with the Celestial Orrery. Hell, they don't need to blow up the whole galaxy. They can pick strategicaly important stars that will cause minimal hurt to them and stop the invading force from advancing.

They won't use the Orrery so light-handedly because it will disrupt the balance of the celestial bodies, but if they ever get cornered... Well, the balance of the universe is not the priority.

**PandaMango141**

Silverthorne wrote:
I thought the god-awful third edition retcrons were bad, but this new stuff seems just as mary sue overpowered. I'm always annoyed by the 'but my dad can beat up your dad!' posturing by these no-weakness, completely invulnerable so why don't you just pack up and go home factions. Why were they even written into the background if there is no way for them to be beaten? It's dull.

They can be beaten, by savagery they don't understand. This is where Humans would end up beating the necrons, in Guerilla warfare.
They were defeated en masse by what was essentially mindless mongols on horses using pretty primitive technology. They deal in logistics, but there is no logistics in madness.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Broly wrote:
In my honest opinion, none of the factions can actually beat Necrons. They simply cannot lose in a total war vs. present races because the galaxy is their b**ch.

If they ever get overwhelmed, they can just force a stalemate by blowing up the galaxy with the Celestial Orrery. Hell, they don't need to blow up the whole galaxy. They can pick strategicaly important stars that will cause minimal hurt to them and stop the invading force from advancing.

They won't use the Orrery so light-handedly because it will disrupt the balance of the celestial bodies, but if they ever get cornered... Well, the balance of the universe is not the priority.

The faction in charge of the Orray would never let that happen, and would actually probably team up with the Imperium to defend it from other Necrons. They see themselves as guardians of the galaxy and keeping it stable.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Broly wrote:
In my honest opinion, none of the factions can actually beat Necrons. They simply cannot lose in a total war vs. present races because the galaxy is their b**ch.

If they ever get overwhelmed, they can just force a stalemate by blowing up the galaxy with the Celestial Orrery. Hell, they don't need to blow up the whole galaxy. They can pick strategicaly important stars that will cause minimal hurt to them and stop the invading force from advancing.

They won't use the Orrery so light-handedly because it will disrupt the balance of the celestial bodies, but if they ever get cornered... Well, the balance of the universe is not the priority.

If all the Orks united under a Waaaagh they'd smash anything in the Imperium. Necrons counter military tactics, they struggle to deal with absolute chaotic madness, which the Orks would bring in plenty.

**Sasori**

If all the Orks united under a Waaaagh they'd smash anything in the Imperium. Necrons counter military tactics, they struggle to deal with absolute chaotic madness, which the Orks would bring in plenty.

This isn't actually true. Imotekh struggles with Orks, because of the lack of Logic. Other Nemesors and Phaerons have no such compunction, as demonstrated by Zahndrekh for instance.

**Stonerhino**

TheRedWingArmada wrote:
Stonerhino wrote:
The Necron endgame also includes cutting the warp off from the material universe. Whichs means no warp travel, no psykers, no warp storms and no way for Chaos to currupt another race. It would be the same as trying to play a game of 40k when one side gets to roll no dice.

It is not a matter of can Chaos defeat the Necrons in a battle. It is the fact that if that Tomb World had an active null field matrix then those deamons would not have even been there in the first place. Every world that has the matrix is effectively impossible for for Chaos to attack. Unless they use another race. Even then the attack is no different then if that race attacked on its own. Now if the Necrons construct pylons and use them to cause warp storms. Then no warp travel based race can get to them. Repeat this attack, install a null field then build pylons and there is nothing Chaos can do to stop it.

-sigh- I'm not arguing with you about what the Necron End Game can do because it's the Necron End Game. I can say that in the Chaos End Game, they effectively destroy all the tomb worlds (using their own force or others enslaved), then enslave the Necrons outright with their null fields down and blah-blah-blah. That can happen because it's an End Game! But right now, the Necrons are not that race. They're sleepy, in some disrepair, maybe a little groggy and they're waking up with other races walking all over their caskets, some of them outright reliving that scene in Pandorum where the guy wakes up and is immediately eaten alive by the other mutants on the ship.

"Unless they use another race..." Absolutely right! They will use another race because that is how Chaos deals with problems like the Necrons, as opposed to just rolling over, dying and saying "Oh for f@#<s sakes!"

And it is considerably different when a force is being herded by Chaos as opposed to them just attacking on their own. First and foremost, Chaos is going to drive them towards Chaos' objective, and once that objective is down, get ready for the s#!7 to hit the fan because it will. Tyranids may not focus on a null field generator unless they had the idea planted in their heads somehow. Same with Orks. Actually MORE with Orks because they're not very resistant to the Warp in the first place, and they don't really care either.

Now what is this crap about "Pylons can make Warpstorms that the Warp-born are affected by?" This is funny to me. This is like saying the pylons can create daemons to fight off the daemons long enough for a null field to be put up? Or is this why Chaos can't use other races, because the storm will block them off? Because this is fool, once again, since a large determining factor of getting through the warp in the first place is with the Chaos God's blessings themselves. On top of that, you're still assuming that these pylons get up faster than either Chaos or any other force can get their to stop them, which Chaos would absolutely never let happen considering they are relatively omnipotent and will bond together if the strength of one is not enough to get a job done that threatens the Warp. They've done it before. They'll do it again.

Look... it is the height of arrogance to say "No matter what you do, we'll win" because the creative mind (and trust me, the Warp is the most creative mind in the entire universe, hands down) will always find a way around such claims. This is like Dorn saying "My fortresses are indestructible!" Sorry boss. You're wrong. There are Iron Warriors with the exact opposite claim.

So, in the Necron End Game, do the Necrons win? Sure. No argument there.
Just like in the Chaos End Game, Chaos wins.

They've got to get there first and the Necrons are not invulnerable, as I have proven over and again. And that really should be the end of the discussion since I'm giving you what you are saying with the addendum of "if they get there in the first place." Which they likely won't.

Logistically, it's impossible when you consider the threats their little niche is under.

>

Please explain how you can believe that another race can reach the Necrons when they can create warp storms to isolate anywhere they build the pylons. Actually they don't even need to build them. The Serpent Beneath shows us they only need one. Which they can transport there with them. And as shown in IA 12 the Necrons are more then capable of tearing apart large chunks of space when they want to.

We also have active Tomb Worlds that exist in Warp storms who suffer no ill effect. Who run around attacking the Chaos controlled worlds whenever they want.

Chaos vs Necrons. Necrons win hands down.

Chaos + other races vs Necrons only have a chance if the Necrons never unit under a single banner.

The whole premise of Chaos not only beating the Necrons to the punch but winning a war of attrition against them is flawed. Because any race they use will need to be able to defeat the Necrons while cut off from Chaos/the warp. Failing that they can never truely win against the Necrons. Isolated exceptions will exist but never mistake them for a rule.

**Imperator_Class**

He is also forgetting, that this is a situation where the Necrons are all fully awake and functioning, with all their tech.

Chaos doesn't have a snowflakes chance in hell.

Oh, and during the time of the Necrons, the warp was calm and the gods weren't around yet. The warp only really became the warp we know after the old ones propagated the mortal, psyker able races. So no, chaos did not have a long game planned.

**Envihon**

I don't think that the Necrons have an auto win in this at all, particularly because of the Warp. I know it has been said that they have ways of shutting the Warp down but that would take time and a lot of effort. The Necrons may have a superior Navy but it takes them centuries, possibly even longer, to get anywhere while the Imperium could just run circles around them by using Warp travel to do in days what it would take the Necrons centuries to do. During the war with the Eldar, once the Eldar started to use the warp, the Necrons lost. It's the reason they went to sleep in the first place so unless the Necrons could shut down the Warp from almost day 1 or a very short time, I don't think they would win that easily even with psychic blanks. One touch with the warp and the Necrons cease to exist. I think people are severely underestimating the power of the Warp. It would take a massive undertaking galaxy wide to shut it down and that is without disruptions. The mobility of the Imperium gives them a serious edge even if technology is on their side.

That being said, I have always admired the Necrons because they are the one army that could defeat Chaos once and for all because they are the antithesis to the warp and every other race besides them is dependent on the warp to live even the Imperium. You shut off the warp like the Necrons want to do and you have won against all other races. But the warp isn't that easily defeated which is why the Necrons haven't steam rolled everyone. For me that is what is comes down to, for who would win this fight, whether or not the and for how long the warp exists. It isn't as cut and dry as some people think.

**KamikazeCanuck**

I believe the new codex says there are more Necron worlds than Imperial ones. Somehow there are several million Necron planets so ya, they would win.

**Psienesis**

. The Necrons may have a superior Navy but it takes them centuries, possibly even longer, to get anywhere while the Imperium could just run circles around them by using Warp travel to do in days what it would take the Necrons centuries to do

Ah... no. The Necron navy is now one of the fastest in the galaxy. Their Dolmen Gates and Inertialess drive are far faster, safer and more reliable than the Warp.

During the war with the Eldar, once the Eldar started to use the warp, the Necrons lost.

Um, no? The Necrons killed the things that created the Eldar and the Orks, and then turned around and killed their own gods. The Eldar did not "start to use the Warp", they had been using it since the very beginning,and had gotten pretty much wtfpwned until the Necrons turned their attention to the C'Tan. It was the losses suffered during that war that caused the Silent King to command his people to basically hibernate to bide their time.

It's the reason they went to sleep in the first place so unless the Necrons could shut down the Warp from almost day 1 or a very short time, I don't think they would win that easily even with psychic blanks. One touch with the warp and the Necrons cease to exist.

Ah, no, actually... it was the transference into Necrodermis that allowed the Necrons to enter the Warp directly (via Warp gates, Web-Way gates and the like) and kill the Old Ones. The C'Tan could not enter the Warp at all.

I think people are severely underestimating the power of the Warp. It would take a massive undertaking galaxy wide to shut it down and that is without disruptions. The mobility of the Imperium gives them a serious edge even if technology is on their side.

I don't think you're very familiar with the Necron history or the War in Heaven, nor are you aware that the technological edge sits with the Necrons, always. That is their bag, technology... and it is through their technology that they get all the other tricks they get (like immortality, time-travel, respawn, better true FTL than anyone, etc.).

**Envihon**

Psienesis wrote:
. The Necrons may have a superior Navy but it takes them centuries, possibly even longer, to get anywhere while the Imperium could just run circles around them by using Warp travel to do in days what it would take the Necrons centuries to do

Ah... no. The Necron navy is now one of the fastest in the galaxy. Their Dolmen Gates and Inertialess drive are far faster, safer and more reliable than the Warp.

During the war with the Eldar, once the Eldar started to use the warp, the Necrons lost.

Um, no? The Necrons killed the things that created the Eldar and the Orks, and then turned around and killed their own gods. The Eldar did not "start to use the Warp", they had been using it since the very beginning,and had gotten pretty much wtfpwned until the Necrons turned their attention to the C'Tan. It was the losses suffered during that war that caused the Silent King to command his people to basically hibernate to bide their time.

It's the reason they went to sleep in the first place so unless the Necrons could shut down the Warp from almost day 1 or a very short time, I don't think they would win that easily even with psychic blanks. One touch with the warp and the Necrons cease to exist.

Ah, no, actually... it was the transference into Necrodermis that allowed the Necrons to enter the Warp directly (via Warp gates, Web-Way gates and the like) and kill the Old Ones. The C'Tan could not enter the Warp at all.

I think people are severely underestimating the power of the Warp. It would take a massive undertaking galaxy wide to shut it down and that is without disruptions. The mobility of the Imperium gives them a serious edge even if technology is on their side.

I don't think you're very familiar with the Necron history or the War in Heaven, nor are you aware that the technological edge sits with the Necrons, always. That is their bag, technology... and it is through their technology that they get all the other tricks they get (like immortality, time-travel, respawn, better true FTL than anyone, etc.).

It specifically states that even with their technology, that they have to enter a stasis crypts as they move between star systems and never could move like the Old Ones who could move around the galaxy in mere seconds. It was one of the things that the Necrontyr were so jealous of the Old Ones for in the first place. No matter how far advanced their technology got, they could never match the Old Ones. It was the reason they had to turn to the C'Tan because the Old Ones and the Eldar outmaneuvered them using the warp and the webway passages which caused the Necrontyr to ally with the C'Tan in the first place. So with the help of the C'Tan, they created the Dolmen Gates as a means of entering the Web-way without the need of having psykers which led to the destruction of the Old Ones. The problem? In the 60 million years that the Necrons have been asleep, the Eldar have gone around and destroyed most of them. There are a few which have made Necron expansion a problem in some systems but it certainly is not galaxy wide. Also, with the birth of Slaanesh and the fall of the Eldar, the Webway has collapsed and become twisted so one wrong turn and that Necron ship is lost for good as well as the Eldar having technology now that detects the interruptions in the Webway that the Dolmen Gates create and provides a way for the Eldar to quickly shut it so there is also that problem facing the Necron. The edge that the Necrons had to defeat the Old Ones is gone and it isn't coming back since they had a war with C'Tan as well.

The Necron technology is far superior, there is no arguing that but the problem here is logistics and with the Necrons having to rely on their old technology to get around, it will be a harder fight then they used to have even with their vast amounts of technology. And the Necrodermis does not allow them to enter the warp, only the Dolmen Gates allowed them to enter the Webway tunnels. If a Necron comes into contact with the Immatrium, they cease to exist. Opening a warp rift big enough, could tear a Necron force asunder so it depends if the Imperium would get that desperate to do that but I could see that they could especially in the face of that large of Necrons, I could see the Imperium doing it. It's not like they are wanting for psykers, got plenty of them to gather and tear a hole in reality.

All I was arguing is that I don't think it is as cut and dry as people think. The warp is a significant force for the Necrons to face and they don't have the bag of tricks that they had back when they fought the Old Ones, the Eldar made sure of that when they went to sleep. I am not saying that the Imperium would win hands down either. It would be an interesting fight with a whole lot more factors in it than who has the better technology.

**Void__Dragon**

Necrontyr=/=Necrons.

**Imperator_Class**

Man you are confusing the Hell out of the lore. They could only move using stasis crypts when they were the necrontyr.

Did you also forget that necrons have null field technology? They dont even NEED to enter the warp, they just ignore it.

The Eldar have also NOT killed most of them. There are millions of tomb worlds to have yet been awakened, and this is a situation where ALL OF THEM are fully awake and functioning with all their technology at their disposal.

Please know what you are talking about before you begin talking.

**Stonerhino**

IA 12 show the Necrons traveling beyond light speed. Don't get caught up on the hyperbole of them being isolated without the Dolman gates. Its only relative to the speed of the webway.

It was only the Old Ones that out maneuvered the Necrontyr. Who are already stated to be more technologically advanced then the Old Ones. The Eldar were a rush job post "Necron" because the Old Ones were getting their behinds handed to them.

**Scarey Nerd**

Void__Dragon wrote:
Necrontyr=/=Necrons.

This. Pretty much everything on pages 6 and 7 of the Necron codex can be ignored for the purposes of their current technology, IA12 is the best indication. FTL drives, throwing fragments of dead stars (mini-black holes?) at people, an incredibly agile and maneuverable fleet, coupled with the Dolmen Gates.

Envihon wrote:
Also, with the birth of Slaanesh and the fall of the Eldar, the Webway has collapsed and become twisted so one wrong turn and that Necron ship is lost for good as well as the Eldar having technology now that detects the interruptions in the Webway that the Dolmen Gates create and provides a way for the Eldar to quickly shut it so there is also that problem facing the Necron.

Necrons are the masters of technology, calculations, logical conclusions, and seeing possible futures (Granted Eldar seers can see the future more clearly, but Necrons see many thousands of possible futures and extrapolate the most likely course of events using prior knowledge and logic). The chances of them making a "wrong turn", therefore, are laughably small. Also, the Eldar have no such technology to shut the Webway down - the Webway itself does that. Sounds like the same problem, but if the Eldar were doing it then it'd be a lot harder to get through, but the Webway can be fooled, and indeed that's exactly how the Necrons use it.

**Animus**

The codex says that the Necrons would be forced to use their slow going stasis ships if they lost their Dolmen Gates. Not the Necrontyr, the Necrons.
The possibility of FTL has never really been removed, even if you could travel ten times the speed light, it would take you thousands of years to cross the galaxy, so isolation is still very possible.
Also unless I missed something IA12 doesn't show any FTL capabilities, the Necron fleet show up and disappear quickly to be sure, but the codex notes that they can hide in out-of-phase reality.

**Niexist**

Scarey Nerd wrote:
Void__Dragon wrote:
Necrontyr=/=Necrons.

This. Pretty much everything on pages 6 and 7 of the Necron codex can be ignored for the purposes of their current technology, IA12 is the best indication. FTL drives, throwing fragments of dead stars (mini-black holes?) at people, an incredibly agile and maneuverable fleet, coupled with the Dolmen Gates.

Envihon wrote:
Also, with the birth of Slaanesh and the fall of the Eldar, the Webway has collapsed and become twisted so one wrong turn and that Necron ship is lost for good as well as the Eldar having technology now that detects the interruptions in the Webway that the Dolmen Gates create and provides a way for the Eldar to quickly shut it so there is also that problem facing the Necron.

Necrons are the masters of technology, calculations, logical conclusions, and seeing possible futures (Granted Eldar seers can see the future more clearly, but Necrons see many thousands of possible futures and extrapolate the most likely course of events using prior knowledge and logic). The chances of them making a "wrong turn", therefore, are laughably small. Also, the Eldar have no such technology to shut the Webway down - the Webway itself does that. Sounds like the same problem, but if the Eldar were doing it then it'd be a lot harder to get through, but the Webway can be fooled, and indeed that's exactly how the Necrons use it.

It's hilarious to me that you'd compare basically an insurance statistician/actuary (necron), to precognition (eldar). The two are so different that for you to lump a computer doing statistical analysis with what the Eldar do just has me sitting here SMDH.

**Scarey Nerd**

Niexist wrote:
It's hilarious to me that you'd compare basically an insurance statistician/actuary (necron), to precognition (eldar). The two are so different that for you to lump a computer doing statistical analysis with what the Eldar do just has me sitting here SMDH.

"Orikan is a consummate astromancer, able to calculate the events of the future from the patterns of the stars. Thus did he know of the Fall of the Eldar, the Rise of Man, the Horus Heresy and the coming of the Tyranids many thousands of years before they came to pass. Through careful study and scrutiny, Orikan can divine lesser occurrences: the movement of fleets, the destinies of indiciduals, even the strategies undertaken by campaigning armies..."

There is another, more specific quote that states pretty much exactly what I said about the Eldar being more focused, but for the life of me I can't find it, I'm still looking though.

**Animus**

Scarey Nerd wrote:
There is another, more specific quote that states pretty much exactly what I said about the Eldar being more focused, but for the life of me I can't find it, I'm still looking though.

Under the Carnac Campaign in the time line section, page 27.
"Though Orikan's divinations are by no means as focused as those of Starbane, they are sufficient to tangle the skeins of fate and leave many details beyond the Farseer's reach."

**Scarey Nerd**

Animus wrote:
Scarey Nerd wrote:
There is another, more specific quote that states pretty much exactly what I said about the Eldar being more focused, but for the life of me I can't find it, I'm still looking though.

Under the Carnac Campaign in the time line section, page 27.
"Though Orikan's divinations are by no means as focused as those of Starbane, they are sufficient to tangle the skeins of fate and leave many details beyond the Farseer's reach."

Thank you, that must be the one I was thinking of, I must have mixed it up thinking it spoke of all astromancers; though it does add a new ability to the Necrons: The ability to foil warp-based precognition.

**Inky**

I have to say, even though I do dearly like my crons, their fluff is just terrible in some cases.

It's like that one friend that always chose the most OP character in a fighting game, or played crossiantwing in early 6th. Necrons are meant to be the polar opposite of Orks (at least, that's how I read it) yet they do seem to be fairly sue ish, and their flaws as a race aren't expanded on (such as Orks' animosity, IoM's uselessness, or Chaos' reliance on Warp based shenanigans. Makes me sad, is all.

but yeah, Necrons win, gg wp no re IoM.

**KamikazeCanuck**

The Necrons basically have magic now. They just call it super-duper-science.

**Niexist**

Scarey Nerd wrote:

"Orikan is a consummate astromancer, able to calculate the events of the future from the patterns of the stars. Thus did he know of the Fall of the Eldar, the Rise of Man, the Horus Heresy and the coming of the Tyranids many thousands of years before they came to pass. Through careful study and scrutiny, Orikan can divine lesser occurrences: the movement of fleets, the destinies of indiciduals, even the strategies undertaken by campaigning armies..."

There is another, more specific quote that states pretty much exactly what I said about the Eldar being more focused, but for the life of me I can't find it, I'm still looking though.

This is just garbage mary sue fluff in my opinion, and really makes me want to write Necrons completely out of my head-cannon like I have with ultramarines.

**Scarey Nerd**

Niexist wrote:
Scarey Nerd wrote:

"Orikan is a consummate astromancer, able to calculate the events of the future from the patterns of the stars. Thus did he know of the Fall of the Eldar, the Rise of Man, the Horus Heresy and the coming of the Tyranids many thousands of years before they came to pass. Through careful study and scrutiny, Orikan can divine lesser occurrences: the movement of fleets, the destinies of indiciduals, even the strategies undertaken by campaigning armies..."

There is another, more specific quote that states pretty much exactly what I said about the Eldar being more focused, but for the life of me I can't find it, I'm still looking though.

This is just garbage mary sue fluff in my opinion, and really makes me want to write Necrons completely out of my head-cannon like I have with ultramarines.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't, and I use this word in the loosest possible way for obvious reasons, true.

**Niexist**

Scarey Nerd wrote:
Niexist wrote:
Scarey Nerd wrote:

"Orikan is a consummate astromancer, able to calculate the events of the future from the patterns of the stars. Thus did he know of the Fall of the Eldar, the Rise of Man, the Horus Heresy and the coming of the Tyranids many thousands of years before they came to pass. Through careful study and scrutiny, Orikan can divine lesser occurrences: the movement of fleets, the destinies of indiciduals, even the strategies undertaken by campaigning armies..."

There is another, more specific quote that states pretty much exactly what I said about the Eldar being more focused, but for the life of me I can't find it, I'm still looking though.

This is just garbage mary sue fluff in my opinion, and really makes me want to write Necrons completely out of my head-cannon like I have with ultramarines.

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't, and I use this word in the loosest possible way for obvious reasons, true.

Sure it does, that's the great thing about head cannon with fiction. If I don't like it, I can just ignore it, because in my opinion it does absolutely nothing to add to the setting and is the biproduct of terrible writing.
In my head cannon ultramarines aren't the epitomy of space marines that everyones aspires to be like whose geneseed makes up 60% of all chapters because it doesn't add anything to the setting and is just a biproduct of one writers Mary Sue-ism. Same thing with future-telling space robots, it makes no sense and adds absolutely NOTHING to the setting whatsoever. Just like ultramarines who everyone wants to be like it discounts an entire faction(the eldar) and I don't like when writers decide to take a dump on other factions the way Ward did to all other space marines with Ultramarines, and the way whoever wrote about the future-telling ability of the Necrons did to the eldar.

Have a nice day.

**Imperator_Class**

Except your idea of the canon means nothing, to be blunt

**Scarey Nerd**

Imperator_Class wrote:
Except your idea of the canon means nothing, to be blunt

Had to wait for the maintenance to be over, got beaten to it

Yeah, as much as I appreciate head-canon (I'd love to retcon the entirety of the Grey Knights out of the game), it has no bearing on a discussion like this.

**mattyrm**

Surely everyone that says Necrons is not taking the size of the Imperium properly into account.

Isn't the Imperial Navy supposed to comprise of like, a billion ships?

How could any race stand against that?