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 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
I wonder why they don't just do that then... I think that it looks badass, and should definitely be put into the game, but why would they start with those "experimental" rules in the first place, I mean they didn't realize it was this good already??

The rules released by forgeworld are rather controversial.

As a rule, their playtesting is reasonably solid.

Occasionally, however, units make it through. Sabre Platforms made it to 40k Approved while remaining underpriced, hopefully the R'varna does not.

I feel like the R'Varna just need to be toned down a little bit. Now when I say a little bit, it still needs to have more firepower than the Riptide, but not 12 large blasts more powerful. I think that 3-4, and maybe even 5 total large blasts would be more reasonable, or a scale of 6-9 small blasts. what do you guys think? Oh, I am glad to hear that their play testing is reasonably solid because I am a Tau player myself and would love to see this thing become legal!

12 large blast? I'm pretty sure you can only get 4, and that's only if you is you novacharge.

I think he is referring to 3 hits per large blast on very bulky models.

That makes more sense. I thought he was saying that there was a way to get 12 shots out of it, which would be ridiculous.

lol yeah, sorry I didn't explain that. It is still to good as it is though. I wonder when it will get progressed in the testing process...

 BoomWolf wrote:
The R'Vana is labeled as "experimental", and by such automatically forbidden in any competitive play and meant only for casual until he gets official rules.

Honestly they just need to fix that OP double-shooting nova reactor, and its good to go.

I've played against him before. IMO, they need to fix that Nova shooting as well as raise his price. As he is right now, he may arguably be one of the best units in the game for the role that he plays (and no, that isn't to hunt down flyers).

That sounds good, I think that upping the point value would be a much needed change. I am contemplating testing it out sometime (not in our game).

Well, after the release of Escalation, what do you guys think about the R'Varna coming into the game? I think that it would be great with all of these crazy titans running around etc. Tau got the short end of the stick IMO with Escalation. They pretty much don't have a super heavy thats worth running at all. As long as stuff doesn't get banned and killed too much, I think that the R'Varna coming in would level the playing field more (*cough cough Eldar are now totally OP and Daemons are still pretty strong cough cough*). What do you think??

Funny enough the R'Vana went from Holy Bleep! OP to meh; my revenant kills 2 a turn and my thunderhawk kills 1 a turn and cannot be shot back at. It is still a pretty fantastic unit but you will have to be very careful with it.

This is why I feel like Tau have gotten the short end of the stick for what you have said exactly. The strength D weapons need to go! They are not fair, unless every army gets a model that can take strength D weapons. Then it would be fair. Some would be a little better than others, but as of now, Tau have gone from top tier, to... Well heres my Revenant, goodbye. Its really not cool. Now Eldar are completely OP! What do you think will happen with all of these giant creatures and super heavies that have strength D weapons (for competitive play)? What would happen if the D was banned, then what would become of the models without them? What do you think?

Well not really. Actually Tau have it alright because of the prevalence of DS, tank hunter models/units. You will have to start playing more reserved based lists against SH but I would say Tau actually made out okay. Reserve your R'Vana + buffmander and walk them on the board turn 2 so they can beta strike that SH into the dust.

Most other armies are in much worse shape. The CSM/CD choice is just ugly as can be and the thunderhawk traps you into certain types of armies.

I think the same thing I did before escalation, that it is poorly written/points costed OP piece of crap that like superheavies has no place in a regular 40k game. And would never allow either across the table from me.

The rvarna should have another tier of damage vs super heavies following its current pattern. Four str 9 hits per plate. Nom nom super heavy.

That would like me happy, though if that is the case, it may need to become a restriction on one per army unit, because it would become too amazing at taking down Super-Heavies (except flyers)

I think that you are right in saying that Tau actually don't have it that bad in actuality. What are some of your ideas on how you could update your army to dispatch of SH and GC?

The biggest change is you will have to start being strategic with your reserves units. If a revenant shows up and you are going second you really need to think about reserving your riptides, hiding important units out of LoS, and deciding what you will sacrifice to the 2-3 turns of 2 units disappearing a turn.

Most other SH and GC will be more about careful game play and won't change the game greatly. A baneblade is just 3 leman russ' taped together. An ork stompa is just a really tough battle wagon. Wrap your important stuff and kill the thing with AT.

You may want to think about spreading your points out more than normal instead of taking a big death star break it apart into several units.

A small farsight bomb with buffmander will kill most SH or GC fairly easily. An HBC + buffmander is a very nasty thing to drop on a revenant.

You might want to think about trading a ADL for some multi level ruins or some LoS blocking buildings.

Be careful trying to tank with your commander. If you fail LOS he will probably die.

Maxed out broadsides will probably struggle badly against most of the LoW as they are either out ranged or not effective. Try not to sink too many points in those large units with max drones that were so popular.

The CTan is going to be really annoying. So far I am thinking monster hunter fusion farsight bomb. Honestly though this seems like a bad matchup.

OVesa star seems reasonable against most of these things. The HBC + buffmander + drones + OVesa + farsight full on star can DS in and kill the D weapon SH and the non D weapon SH/GC will have a tough time killing the unit before it kills them. Not a huge fan of this approach though.

If you could catch them EMP grenades could do a job...catching a 36" movement is not easy though.

Thanks for your help. I will change up my list a little and post it sometime soon. So to clarify you are suggesting deep striking the O'Vesastar, and then taking out the D weapon and then working from there?

Pretty much. If you think you can take out the revenant before it hits you then you should be okay. The problem is taking even 2 D weapon blasts (revenant shoots 4 a turn) will about destroy an OVesa star.

Yes, D-weapons are very scary right now and quite the talk amongst the metagamers. Are there really that many Titans wondering around in your play group? In my current meta in Oklahoma City, I don't know of anyone with a Titan, or I should amend that- I don't know of anyone I would play that has a Titan. Are we going to start seeing more of them? I dunno. They are very pricy, both in $$ and points wise to include in your army. Are they scary? Meh, a little bit. I'm betting on the fact that they won't be allowed in most of the tournaments I play in, and if someone shows up with one in a friendly game, as long as I get a heads up before we play and he allows me to adjust my list accordingly, then sure, let's throw some dice. After all, the guy spent the money on the model, he should be allowed to play with it once in a while, right?

In dealing with a Titan or some other big, scary model with D-Weapons, Void Shields, Holo-fields, what ever, I have every confidence that the right application of Lascannons, Railguns, Melta, Lance, or another D-weapon will take care of the problem. It's just another dimension to the game that complicates things.

So, its been a while. Do you think that the R'varna will get 40k approved anytime soon? I have also formulated a totally OP list for regular 40k that is just well.... you can see for yourself.

Tau:

HQ:

Commander - 162
Iridium Battlesuit, MSSS, Puretide Chip, Command & Control Node,

Elites:

Riptide - 180
Heavy Burst Cannon, TL SMS, EWO, Velocity Tracker

Riptide - 180
Heavy Burst Cannon, TL SMS, EWO, Velocity Tracker

Riptide - 180
Heavy Burst Cannon, TL SMS, EWO, Velocity Tracker

Troops:

Kroot Carnivore - 60

Kroot Carnivore - 70
Sniper Rounds,

Kroot Carnivore - 70
Sniper Rounds,

Kroot Carnivore - 70
Sniper Rounds,

Heavy Support:

R'Varna - 260

R'Varna - 260

R'Varna - 260

Thats for a 1750 point game. Tell me what you think, and how this could affect the game. Sorry for listing some of the support systems etc. I felt it was necessary to know what some of the models were taking due to the change in their point cost then.

..And then you can allay with farsight for even more riptides!

It will get 40k approved, but not in its current incarnation.

The only thing that stops it from being completely over the top are D guns.

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
So, its been a while. Do you think that the R'varna will get 40k approved anytime soon? I have also formulated a totally OP list for regular 40k that is just well.... you can see for yourself.

Tau:

HQ:

Commander - 162
Iridium Battlesuit, MSSS, Puretide Chip, Command & Control Node,

Elites:

Riptide - 180
Heavy Burst Cannon, TL SMS, EWO, Velocity Tracker

Riptide - 180
Heavy Burst Cannon, TL SMS, EWO, Velocity Tracker

Riptide - 180
Heavy Burst Cannon, TL SMS, EWO, Velocity Tracker

Troops:

Kroot Carnivore - 60

Kroot Carnivore - 70
Sniper Rounds,

Kroot Carnivore - 70
Sniper Rounds,

Kroot Carnivore - 70
Sniper Rounds,

Heavy Support:

R'Varna - 260

R'Varna - 260

R'Varna - 260

Thats for a 1750 point game. Tell me what you think, and how this could affect the game. Sorry for listing some of the support systems etc. I felt it was necessary to know what some of the models were taking due to the change in their point cost then.

Strong list, but the lack of Markerlights will probably be its downfall as the Seer Council sweeps a Riptide a turn.

It all depends on where the R'Varna ends up rules-wise, they're probably having trouble producing a balanced ruleset for it or saving it for the next IA book.

So I just played a game with a single R'Varna. It was a 1500 point game. I failed my Nova Reactor every turn. Yes every turn ladies and gentlemen. Without my crazy cluster fire shots against my opponents riptide and hammerheads, it was truly fair (minus the fact that I also took 5 wounds because of it). That was just my experience, and it was really alot more fair.

So in order for an R'Varna to be fair it must not have access to its boosted rules and it must hit itself every turn?

Sounds OP as feth to me.

when the phantom came out, i grabbed the experimental rules for it. when it had offical rules released in the book, the only thing that really changed was its saves. (got 1 worse in all regards) those have since changed again to how they work now. but weapons, options, points, etc all stayed the same.

sorry to all the haters but i think the riptides weapons and nova options stay. he might get a 10-15point cost increase, but hes already 80pts more then a basic one. without sig systems. the one change he might get, is his saves could be made the same as the normal riptide. his current armor/invun saves are a little convuluted, i see that getting simpler, and probally 1 worse. going to a 3+/5++ with nova making it a 3+++

thats my prediction based on what ive seen another model do from its experimental to offical rules.

and for the haters... best way to deal with him? spread out. minimize how many get touched by that blast. - or simply dont put your bulky/very bulky models in a spot to get pounded by it.

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
So in order for an R'Varna to be fair it must not have access to its boosted rules and it must hit itself every turn?

Sounds OP as feth to me.

No, I was referring to my experience and how it was fair that it never nova charged, but it wasn't fair that it kept hitting itself. If the nova charge that is OP was taken away, its fine by itself.

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
So, its been a while. Do you think that the R'varna will get 40k approved anytime soon? I have also formulated a totally OP list for regular 40k that is just well.... you can see for yourself.

Tau:

HQ:

Commander - 162
Iridium Battlesuit, MSSS, Puretide Chip, Command & Control Node,

Elites:

Riptide - 180
Heavy Burst Cannon, TL SMS, EWO, Velocity Tracker

Riptide - 180
Heavy Burst Cannon, TL SMS, EWO, Velocity Tracker

Riptide - 180
Heavy Burst Cannon, TL SMS, EWO, Velocity Tracker

Troops:

Kroot Carnivore - 60

Kroot Carnivore - 70
Sniper Rounds,

Kroot Carnivore - 70
Sniper Rounds,

Kroot Carnivore - 70
Sniper Rounds,

Heavy Support:

R'Varna - 260

R'Varna - 260

R'Varna - 260

Thats for a 1750 point game. Tell me what you think, and how this could affect the game. Sorry for listing some of the support systems etc. I felt it was necessary to know what some of the models were taking due to the change in their point cost then.

your overcosted by 77 points, you didnt add the cost of velocity trackers and OWO on the riptides, other than that its pretty much the same as the list i want to run, except im allying in farsight enclaves.

 Penfold wrote:

your overcosted by 77 points, you didnt add the cost of velocity trackers and OWO on the riptides, other than that its pretty much the same as the list i want to run, except im allying in farsight enclaves.

Ah, I see my error. I will fix that in my own list. Thanks for catching that.