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2013/12/12 17:15:38
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post): New pics!
The Lost and the Banned
This section is dedicated to a rough history of Warhammer related resin casting in the US and a list of products that were produced by the companies listed here. Strangely enough all the US licensed producers of Games Workshop copyrighted models were located within 4 hours of each other in Northern California.
In the Beginning…
First there was a barren emptiness, Warhammer 40K players had no vehicles there were only 2 Games Workshop models and those were only for one race - the Marines.
Along came Mike Biasi - the "Master" Mike is a very talented artist and sculptor and he produced a 40K scale Titan modeled on the early Games Workshop Plastic and metal Epic models for Adeptus Titanicus.
Mike lived in Santa Rosa, California up the coast form San Francisco, back in those days Games Workshop was a smaller, less complicated company than they are now and when Mike sent them his Titan they were impressed! They gave Mike a copyright license to produce 40K scale models of Epic vehicles; Mike named his company Mike Biasi Studios.
The local gaming community being small and fairly tight knit - word soon got around about these wonderful models and Tim Dupertuis started publishing Inquisitor magazine with rules for these models in it. I saw Mike's models and realized where he was going BIG I could go small. So I made some models and sent them to GW and luckily enough they gave me a copyright too! I named my company Epicast USA.
Let me state now - Mike is a classically trained and educated artist with university level courses in Art and sculpture behind him; I am an enthusiastic converter/scratch builder with some artistic talent. There was little comparison between our models and Mike's later work with Armorcast and Forgeworld UK is of professional standard.
Mike's association with Games Workshop ended and John Richardson of Modesto, California and some other friends approached Games Workshop with a proposition. They asked GW for the right to reproduce Mike's models and other new ones on a large scale production basis. GW agreed and gave them a contract.
They formed Forgeworld USA Tim Dupertuis approached GW and asked for the same rights and contract and got Mike to agree to work with him to refine and update the models. Tim formed a company called Armorcast.
So there you have it: in order of appearance: Mike Biasi Studios, Epicast, Forgeworld USA, Armorcast.
Over time these three companies produced the range of Games Workshop licensed models listed below, there is one other mention - though I don't know who the company was but there was a limited release in Games Workshop shops in the UK only of a Polyvinyl cast "Gobsmasha" this model was about half the size of the Epicast model and was made to fit into a clamshell blister pack. I was originally told 500 were made but I think this number is high. If anyone has information on this company please let me know.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
2013/12/12 17:23:38
Subject: Re:Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post): New pics!
The problem with the Genestealers isn't the unit itself, but the delivery method. If there is something in the Codex (or in a supplement) that lets them reach safely CC, then they are going to be worth it.
No, the problem with genestealers is you're paying MEQ prices for something with no utility. Here's some math hammer for you:
10 Genestealers VS 10 MEQ:
Overwatch (10 bolters) : 20 S4 AP5 at BS1 = 5/3 wounds
9 Genestealers attack: 27 S4 rending attacks at WS6 = 5 wounds
5 MEQ attack: 5 S4 attacks at WS4 = 5/6 wounds
So, if genestealers take no casualties, the marines are charged, out of terrain and if all rolls are average, genestealers kill half the unit. Marines then autopass and in the next round of combat, genestealers do ~1.9 more wounds, the MEQ do 0.5 wounds. The MEQ lose on the next round of combat, leaving the stealers free in the MEQ players turn to shoot at them.
Let's look at 5 assault Terminators VS 14 genestealers to reenact Space Hulk.
Overwatch: 10 S4 AP5 at BS1 = 5/6 wound
9 genestealers attack: 27 S4 rending attacks at WS6 = 3 wounds
2 TEQ attack: 4 S8 AP2 attacks at WS4 = 5/3 wounds
Seems decent, yeah? Well... no, not at all. See, let's look at ONE round of shooting resolved against these guys. That's 10 S4 AP5 at BS4 = 10/3 - you lose over 42 points per turn. Against one of the most common, most used guns in the game, they die like rats. It's like losing 3 marines to bolters - kinda dumb.
Now let's look at what happens if there IS terrain to charge through, but they still take absolutely no wounds from shooting somehow:
10 vs 10 MEQ:
Overwatch (10 bolters) : 20 S4 AP5 at BS1 = 5/3 wounds
10 MEQ attack: 10 S4 attacks at WS4 = 5/3 wounds
7 genestealers attack: 21 S4 rending attacks at WS6 = 35/9 (~4) wounds
Genestealers here almost tie with MEQ. On the charge. Yeah.
14 vs 5 TEQ:
Overwatch: 10 S4 AP5 at BS1 = 5/6 wound
9 genestealers attack: 27 S4 rending attacks at WS6 = 3 wounds
5 TEQ attack at the same time: 10 S8 AP2 attacks at WS4 = 25/6 wounds (~4)
Here, on the charge, they lose. Not point for point, but they actually lose combat. 5 will die compared to 3 TEQ. It's dumb.
See, the issue isn't that Genestealers have been denied good ways to get into combat, it's that even once they're there, they're very underwhelming for a dedicated assault unit. As in, they're trash. If they had a rule which just put them in combat in the first turn, that's pretty much the only time they'd be usable (and then they'd be broken as you could tie up everything with an insta-tarpit). Tau will wipe them. Eldar will wipe them. Necrons will wipe them. Daemons easily beat them in combat. Even MEQ armies destroy them. They are good against nothing unless they miraculously get into combat completely unscathed and even then they're unable to do a massive amount of damage.
I hammer this comparison a lot but that's because I think it should hold true - compare it to Space Hulk. In Space Hulk, a genestealers chance to die per resolved storm bolter shot is 11/36. In 40k, it's 20/36, almost twice as high. In Space Hulk, a Genestealer has really quite a low chance to die in assault, and a very high chance to kill outright (I mean, it's like 70% just to kill, with almost no chance to die). In 40k, it has a 217/729 chance, or ~30%. TEQ then has a 95/144 or ~66% to kill. This is really, really stupid when genestealers can ONLY assault.
Until Genestealers return to their former glory of not only just having a 4+, but also being able to annihilate stuff in assault, they will remain unplayable. It's a sign of how bad assault is in 40k that to match their Space Hulk days genestealers would need 10 attacks EACH to regain their old chance to kill TEQ. I mean, think of what is viable in assault at the moment and tell me which of those hasn't got either a 2++ rerollable+at least 12" move, the potential for an immediate first turn assault or is an MC. Sorry for the rant, but it's just absurd.
TL;DR genestealers are weak, bad assault only units in an edition where assault is incredibly underpowered and hard to get into anyway.
2013/12/12 17:29:20
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post): New pics!
The Lost and the Banned
This section is dedicated to a rough history of Warhammer related resin casting in the US and a list of products that were produced by the companies listed here. Strangely enough all the US licensed producers of Games Workshop copyrighted models were located within 4 hours of each other in Northern California.
In the Beginning…
First there was a barren emptiness, Warhammer 40K players had no vehicles there were only 2 Games Workshop models and those were only for one race - the Marines.
Along came Mike Biasi - the "Master" Mike is a very talented artist and sculptor and he produced a 40K scale Titan modeled on the early Games Workshop Plastic and metal Epic models for Adeptus Titanicus.
Mike lived in Santa Rosa, California up the coast form San Francisco, back in those days Games Workshop was a smaller, less complicated company than they are now and when Mike sent them his Titan they were impressed! They gave Mike a copyright license to produce 40K scale models of Epic vehicles; Mike named his company Mike Biasi Studios.
The local gaming community being small and fairly tight knit - word soon got around about these wonderful models and Tim Dupertuis started publishing Inquisitor magazine with rules for these models in it. I saw Mike's models and realized where he was going BIG I could go small. So I made some models and sent them to GW and luckily enough they gave me a copyright too! I named my company Epicast USA.
Let me state now - Mike is a classically trained and educated artist with university level courses in Art and sculpture behind him; I am an enthusiastic converter/scratch builder with some artistic talent. There was little comparison between our models and Mike's later work with Armorcast and Forgeworld UK is of professional standard.
Mike's association with Games Workshop ended and John Richardson of Modesto, California and some other friends approached Games Workshop with a proposition. They asked GW for the right to reproduce Mike's models and other new ones on a large scale production basis. GW agreed and gave them a contract.
They formed Forgeworld USA Tim Dupertuis approached GW and asked for the same rights and contract and got Mike to agree to work with him to refine and update the models. Tim formed a company called Armorcast.
So there you have it: in order of appearance: Mike Biasi Studios, Epicast, Forgeworld USA, Armorcast.
Over time these three companies produced the range of Games Workshop licensed models listed below, there is one other mention - though I don't know who the company was but there was a limited release in Games Workshop shops in the UK only of a Polyvinyl cast "Gobsmasha" this model was about half the size of the Epicast model and was made to fit into a clamshell blister pack. I was originally told 500 were made but I think this number is high. If anyone has information on this company please let me know.
OT but just in case anybody wonders: I've seen references to the blisterpack Gobsmasha being by Monolith designs - Steve Mussared who mainly did resin scenery but also very small (test?) runs of some 40K and Epic vehicals
2013/12/12 18:24:51
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post): New pics!
So have the earlier rumors of a run assault ability been shot down? Seems army wide abilities are still being held hush hush to me. Perhaps a sign were in for something interesting and new?
Never underestimate the Genestealers ability to sweeping advance EVERYTHING!
2013/12/12 18:30:47
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post): New pics!
Backlash wrote: So have the earlier rumors of a run assault ability been shot down? Seems army wide abilities are still being held hush hush to me. Perhaps a sign were in for something interesting and new?
Nothing seems confirmed yet. Honestly, I tend to take that silence as meaning it's not in there (you'd think that'd be an important highlight in the battle report). You never know, though.
Backlash wrote: So have the earlier rumors of a run assault ability been shot down? Seems army wide abilities are still being held hush hush to me. Perhaps a sign were in for something interesting and new?
I think all the current leaks are WD ones and we are still a way off anyone getting there hands on a codex to leak.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: By the way, who is Armorcast? I know they are a miniature company, but were they Citadel's predecessor or something?
Essentially Forge World's independent licensed predecessor. Before GW did any resin we (Armorcast) held licenses to produce 40K scale versions of many of he epic vehicles and critters. When it started, GW did not think there was a market for large resin stuff, but after three years of licenses ('96-'98) and the sales 30,000 resin kits, GW decided that perhaps there was a market after all and did not renew the Armorcast license when it came up for renewal.
I thought it was a couple years later that the first Forge World full vehicle models were produced, but it might have been less. Lexicanium says the company started in 1998, so would likely would have been in existence when the Armorcast license ended or shortly thereafter.
Armorcast produced the following kits in 40K scale:
Imperial Reaver
Imperial Warhound
Baneblade
Shadowsword
Baneblade/Shadowsword combo kit
Super Detailed Baneblade
Eldar Tempest Grav Tank
Eldar Towering Destroyer Knight
Eldar Revenant Scout Titan
Eldar Phantom Titan
After the end of the GW license Armorcast did lots of resin scenery and picked up licenses for BattleTech and WarZone models. I sold Armorcast in 2007 and it continues successfully today at armorcast.com.
Tim DuPertuis
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/12 19:00:17
2013/12/12 18:50:22
Subject: Re:Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post): New pics!
Backlash wrote: So have the earlier rumors of a run assault ability been shot down? Seems army wide abilities are still being held hush hush to me. Perhaps a sign were in for something interesting and new?
Nothing seems confirmed yet. Honestly, I tend to take that silence as meaning it's not in there (you'd think that'd be an important highlight in the battle report). You never know, though.
It's possible that's what onslaught could do. Or adrenal glands allow run and assault (along with furious charge) as it would explain why the point increase.
But nothing is for sure.
2013/12/12 19:03:03
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post): New pics!
BeeCee wrote:Any indication as to what all is included in the $170 USD Tyranid Swarm box?
If Tyranids are cheaper, faster, and generally more nasty once in combat, I'm not so sure the assault after run is absolutely necessary.
Assault armies are going to be the toughest ones to get right in this edition. They have to be powerful, but not automatic or OP. There has to be elements in place to restrict certain things without making them mopey.
Demons are pretty successful right now, but I think that's because they can have some pretty dynamic shooting when they want. Oh, and all those invulnerable saves help.
I don't want Tyranids to just be a copy of Demons though.
Maybe there are some new army-wide rules we just haven't heard about yet. Pretty much every codex has come with surprises, even when people have them in hand and start spoiling them all over the internet.
Yeah, true. I *think* some of the rumormongers (the more recent, seemingly more trustworthy ones) have hinted that adrenals do more now. IIRC, the 2nd ed version of that biomorph allowed running and shooting.
Pretty shocked that there are no real changes to stealers or warriors. Based on other 6ed units (like daemonettes, spawn, etc) that there'd be some tweaks (stealers are so outclassed by daemonettes and seekers its not even funny). Hope there's some new synergy within the dex that makes them work or that the biomorphs were updated (like say fleshooks working like the DE grenade launcher as one example) but I am not holding my breath.
snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."
Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away."
2013/12/12 19:15:44
Subject: Re:Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post): New pics!
CthuluIsSpy wrote: By the way, who is Armorcast? I know they are a miniature company, but were they Citadel's predecessor or something?
Essentially Forge World's independent licensed predecessor. Before GW did any resin we (Armorcast) held licenses to produce 40K scale versions of many of he epic vehicles and critters. When it started, GW did not think there was a market for large resin stuff, but after three years of licenses ('96-'98) and the sales 30,000 resin kits, GW decided that perhaps there was a market after all and did not renew the Armorcast license when it came up for renewal.
I thought it was a couple years later that the first Forge World full vehicle models were produced, but it might have been less. Lexicanium says the company started in 1998, so would likely would have been in existence when the Armorcast license ended or shortly thereafter.
Armorcast produced the following kits in 40K scale:
Imperial Reaver
Imperial Warhound
Baneblade
Shadowsword
Baneblade/Shadowsword combo kit
Super Detailed Baneblade
Eldar Tempest Grav Tank
Eldar Towering Destroyer Knight
Eldar Revenant Scout Titan
Eldar Phantom Titan
After the end of the GW license Armorcast did lots of resin scenery and picked up licenses for BattleTech and WarZone models. I sold Armorcast in 2007 and it continues successfully today at armorcast.com.
Tim DuPertuis
That's interesting stuff. Did you or any of your co-workers or friends ever have any medical conditions from working with resin? I know most safety standards for companies were shot way up after the 80's, but maybe working with it so long? I know your supposed to wear at least a dust mask when working with it today. Anything you absolutely should know before you go converting todays resin models?
warhammer 40k mmo. If I can drive an ork trukk into the back of a space marine dread and explode in a fireball of epic, I can die happy!
8k points
3k points
3k points
Admech 2.5k points
2013/12/12 19:26:17
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post): New pics!
CthuluIsSpy wrote: By the way, who is Armorcast? I know they are a miniature company, but were they Citadel's predecessor or something?
Essentially Forge World's independent licensed predecessor. Before GW did any resin we (Armorcast) held licenses to produce 40K scale versions of many of he epic vehicles and critters. When it started, GW did not think there was a market for large resin stuff, but after three years of licenses ('96-'98) and the sales 30,000 resin kits, GW decided that perhaps there was a market after all and did not renew the Armorcast license when it came up for renewal.
I thought it was a couple years later that the first Forge World full vehicle models were produced, but it might have been less. Lexicanium says the company started in 1998, so would likely would have been in existence when the Armorcast license ended or shortly thereafter.
Armorcast produced the following kits in 40K scale:
Imperial Reaver
Imperial Warhound
Baneblade
Shadowsword
Baneblade/Shadowsword combo kit
Super Detailed Baneblade
Eldar Tempest Grav Tank
Eldar Towering Destroyer Knight
Eldar Revenant Scout Titan
Eldar Phantom Titan
After the end of the GW license Armorcast did lots of resin scenery and picked up licenses for BattleTech and WarZone models. I sold Armorcast in 2007 and it continues successfully today at armorcast.com.
Tim DuPertuis
That's interesting stuff. Did you or any of your co-workers or friends ever have any medical conditions from working with resin? I know most safety standards for companies were shot way up after the 80's, but maybe working with it so long? I know your supposed to wear at least a dust mask when working with it today. Anything you absolutely should know before you go converting todays resin models?
Well, any resin used by a legitimate manufacturer will essentially be inert, but even if there were health complications, working with resin in a commercial basis, dealing with the components of the resin before they've hardened, and doing so for weeks, months or years isn't really analogous to what one hobbyist exposes themselves to in a lifetime.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/12 19:27:30
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Just like how a baker can suffer severe health issues by being around flour particulates in the air for years, if proper safety procedures aren't followed.
Meanwhile, any news on that bizarre "having guns makes assault better, having assault weapons makes shooting better" mechanic that was referenced to in the last round of rumours?
That's interesting stuff. Did you or any of your co-workers or friends ever have any medical conditions from working with resin? I know most safety standards for companies were shot way up after the 80's, but maybe working with it so long? I know your supposed to wear at least a dust mask when working with it today. Anything you absolutely should know before you go converting todays resin models?
Polyurethane resin, like super glue, is cyanoacrylate based, so there can be issues similar to problems with super glue.
Once its hardened, it pretty much inert and does not cause problems except for possibly breathing in the dust.
We had a massive air evacuation system and supplied the casters with overpressure outside air coming in to hoods, so we did not have many problems. One guy had quit after half a day because he was having allergy problems with the unmixed resin. I already had eye sensitivity to super glue coming into it, but did not have any problems in the casting room.
Well, any resin used by a legitimate manufacturer will essentially be inert, but even if there were health complications, working with resin in a commercial basis, dealing with the components of the resin before they've hardened, and doing so for weeks, months or years isn't really analogous to what one hobbyist exposes themselves to in a lifetime.
Polyurethane resin is inert when set up, but is a Hazmat material when unmixed. Unless one is pouring resin in an unventilated area a dust mask when filing/sanding is really all that's needed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/12/12 20:35:01
2013/12/12 21:37:20
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post): New pics!
tetrisphreak wrote: How cool would it be if the haruspex could swallow entire vehicles whole, like the Red Terror used to do to infantry? That would be awesome.
Though by the model it looks like it's modus operandi is to use it's claws of life to pry open tanks and then feed on the insides.
This picture was posted on the Tyranid Hive earlier today, and might shed some light on your question. Haven't seen it in this thread yet:
Looks more like he'll be snacking on infantry than on vehicles.
I'm curious about the wargear categories illuminated by the leaked codex entries. So far we see:
From that you can deduce that there will likely be "Advanced Bio-cannons" and "Advanced Bio-weapons" sections that separate things like Venom Cannons from Rupture Cannons, or Fleshborers from Fleshborer Hives, and so on. However, if their terminology was completely consistent, you might expect to see "Basic Melee bio-weapons" instead of what it actually says. I wonder if that means that all melee bio-weapons are in a single category. Warriors with Crushing Claws?
2013/12/12 21:38:49
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post): New pics!
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
2013/12/12 21:55:46
Subject: Tyranid Release in January (summary in first post): New pics!
Backlash wrote: So have the earlier rumors of a run assault ability been shot down? Seems army wide abilities are still being held hush hush to me. Perhaps a sign were in for something interesting and new?
I have a feeling it might be a must fire overwatch at the first charging unit so you can bate fire with the little guys so your big bugs can get in to combat unharmed sort of a panic reaction from the charged unit due to the charging horde. I'm interested to see how the battle report turns out with it apparently being against tau.
~4100
~1660
8k points
3k points
3k points
4200 points
