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 Mantle wrote:

Backlash wrote:
So have the earlier rumors of a run assault ability been shot down? Seems army wide abilities are still being held hush hush to me. Perhaps a sign were in for something interesting and new?

I have a feeling it might be a must fire overwatch at the first charging unit so you can bate fire with the little guys so your big bugs can get in to combat unharmed sort of a panic reaction from the charged unit due to the charging horde. I'm interested to see how the battle report turns out with it apparently being against tau.

That's not a nid special rule, that's a main rulebook rule.

Well, you're not forced to overwatch, so if there's a unit of 3 gants 9" away from you declaring an assault, you can opt to not fire, watch them fail to get in, then overwatch the real threat 4" away. A bait rule like he mentioned would let you shoot those three useless guys and let your wrecking crew in unharmed.

Eyjio wrote:

See, the issue isn't that Genestealers have been denied good ways to get into combat, it's that even once they're there, they're very underwhelming for a dedicated assault unit. ...

I heartily agree.

Unfortunately, most SM players I run into expect to shoot Nids up at range and then feel entitled to beat us in CC. The amount of sulkiness when a brood of 'stealers win an assault is incredible, IME. They are fine with other Marines beating the snot out of them...just not Xenos.

That balance of deadliness in assault compared to vulnerability at range is what made 2nd Ed Nids, Space Hulk, and the Aliens movie fun. But it hasn't been there with Nids for quite some time. Heck, in 4th Edition my swarm was out shooting CWE.

Eldercaveman wrote:

 pretre wrote:

TyCorny wrote:
giant pyrovore anyone?

Nope

No just you. Everyone else saw giant Biovore.

Unless they've been around since Epic, in which case they saw an Exocrine.

 Souleater wrote:
That balance of deadliness in assault compared to vulnerability at range is what made 2nd Ed Nids, Space Hulk, and the Aliens movie fun. But it hasn't been there with Nids for quite some time. Heck, in 4th Edition my swarm was out shooting CWE.

I miss my fast and deadly Tyranids too. But that was a long time ago, and Daemons already seem to be comfortably parked in that niche now.

So Genestealers suck, and Warriors (unless there's a rule we don;t know about) appear to be Toughness 4 and terrible (again). Can we go three for three and have Lictors be useless yet again?

Daemons also seem to fill the attack-from-all-angles niche better than Tyranids.

Then again, with half the armies in the game running around with Power Armor, there's no reason why Daemons and Tyranids both can't share the fast-and-deadly bodies army archetype.

 Absolutionis wrote:
Daemons also seem to fill the attack-from-all-angles niche better than Tyranids.

Then again, with half the armies in the game running around with Power Armor, there's no reason why Daemons and Tyranids both can't share the fast-and-deadly bodies army archetype.

I dunno, I think both should be. Daemons are quite resilient, fast and have deep strike along with the instability warp stuff. Nids are shooty but there's no reason they couldn't also be fast assault too. Every assault unit kinda needs to be fast nowadays because of so many jump/jet pack units flying around. Nids are certainly way more swarmy than Daemons, so fit a good niche with "runs over dead comrades to murder you".

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So Genestealers suck, and Warriors (unless there's a rule we don;t know about) appear to be Toughness 4 and terrible (again). Can we go three for three and have Lictors be useless yet again?

If what they did to Daemons is anything to go by, I doubt Warriors will get anything like Eternal Warrior. Bloodcrushers went from T:5 to T:4, lost Eternal Warrior and had their 3+ Armor Save changed to a 6+. Granted they have a 5++, but they'll double out to all the same things that make Warriors "Terrible". Which is really too bad because I love the Bloodcrusher models, but I can't bring myself to run them anymore.

We can still hold out for some of the Biomorphs in understanding whether Warriors and Genestealers got better.

For instance, Warriors could get access to stronger heavy weapons. Also, Deathspitters could be super awesome in the new book.

The Broodlord is allowed to take all the Biomorphs from the list in their entry. If this includes Flesh Hooks, he could give his unit Assault Grenades, which would be awesome. There may also be some sort of Stealth upgrade or Overwatch counter in that list that the Broodlord could confer on his unit.

 -Loki- wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 pretre wrote:

TyCorny wrote:
giant pyrovore anyone?

Nope

No just you. Everyone else saw giant Biovore.

Unless they've been around since Epic, in which case they saw an Exocrine.

I think the majority will see it as a massive pyrovore... I sure did.

Nope. It was definitely a biovore with insecurities to me.

Altruizine wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
How cool would it be if the haruspex could swallow entire vehicles whole, like the Red Terror used to do to infantry? That would be awesome.

Though by the model it looks like it's modus operandi is to use it's claws of life to pry open tanks and then feed on the insides.

This picture was posted on the Tyranid Hive earlier today, and might shed some light on your question. Haven't seen it in this thread yet:



Looks more like he'll be snacking on infantry than on vehicles.

I'm curious about the wargear categories illuminated by the leaked codex entries. So far we see:

- Biomorphs
- Basic bio-cannons
- Basic bio-weapons
- Melee bio-weapons

From that you can deduce that there will likely be "Advanced Bio-cannons" and "Advanced Bio-weapons" sections that separate things like Venom Cannons from Rupture Cannons, or Fleshborers from Fleshborer Hives, and so on. However, if their terminology was completely consistent, you might expect to see "Basic Melee bio-weapons" instead of what it actually says. I wonder if that means that all melee bio-weapons are in a single category. Warriors with Crushing Claws?

Yep, was posted on the last page. I doubt warriors will have access to crushing claws, but I don't know. It was mentioned that there will be "Rare Biomorphs" and one-per-army-type biomorphs as well, which they may be under along with other Carnifex-level weapons.

 Absolutionis wrote:
Daemons also seem to fill the attack-from-all-angles niche better than Tyranids.

On the other hand, Daemons appear to be the only army in 40K and Fantasy that will continue to buck the trend for nice, large, multi-pose plastic kits that tower over the rest of the army.

I suppose there just isn't really a good concept for a "larger" HQ-type-o-Daemon out there that would make a nice, large plastic-kit that GW seems so fond of making for every other faction they have

Tyranids have how many super-sized plastic kits now?

 Zweischneid wrote:

On the other hand, Daemons appear to be the only army in 40K and Fantasy that will continue to buck the trend for nice, large, multi-pose plastic kits that tower over the rest of the army.

I suppose there just isn't really a good concept for a "larger" HQ-type-o-Daemon out there that would make a nice, large plastic-kit that GW seems so fond of making for every other faction they have

Plenty of rumors of plastic greater demons coming...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So Genestealers suck, and Warriors (unless there's a rule we don;t know about) appear to be Toughness 4 and terrible (again). Can we go three for three and have Lictors be useless yet again?

It depends what you mean by useless. If GW did not include them in the codex, then they will be useless. Otherwise, they will just be terrible.

GW always goes through cycles. The xenos had a few good codicies, and now it appears it is time for bad xeno codicies again. Speaking of cycles, it seems that GW is going back to squatting stuff again. It has been a while since they wrote units out of books. Oh for the days of halflings and war wagons.

 Absolutionis wrote:
Daemons also seem to fill the attack-from-all-angles niche better than Tyranids.

I'd rather Tyranids do what they do in the fluff best - overwhelming force. The main imagery of Tyranids is a massive, massive, uncountable wave to horrible biological weaponised monsters crashing into any form of defense. The 'attack from all angle' part is in addition to their main style of attack. If they get the first one right for once, I'll forgive any lack in additional attack styles.

 Zweischneid wrote:
On the other hand, Daemons appear to be the only army in 40K and Fantasy that will continue to buck the trend for nice, large, multi-pose plastic kits that tower over the rest of the army.

Nope.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So Genestealers suck, and Warriors (unless there's a rule we don;t know about) appear to be Toughness 4 and terrible (again). Can we go three for three and have Lictors be useless yet again?

I think the rumour was that you can only snap fire at Lictors for one turn after they came into play. That and their improved cover saves make them very resistant to all shooting. I guess the only possible problems that might again manifest themselves are the points cost and the fact that they don't actually do much in close combat even if they get there.

I wouldn't be surprised if Stealers and Warriors suck balls as the army might still be competitive in some Zilla format, but naturally it would be disappointing if they still couldn't fix the T4-bad armour save-no invulnerable save-multiwound model problem. Both the T4 eternal warrior or T5 standard variants would work as long as the points cost is balanced -- Either way they'd be playable maybe even highly competitive.

 spaceelf wrote:
Speaking of cycles, it seems that GW is going back to squatting stuff again. It has been a while since they wrote units out of books. Oh for the days of halflings and war wagons.

This was always going to happen after the chapterhouse lawsuit. GW are scared now that any unit lacking a model they can potentially lose the model rights on (especially if they stick to art for the model that third parties did as well), so now anything they can't produce a model for won't be in the book.

Tyranids have a decent count of models GW don't produce. Parasite, Doom of Malan'tai, Mycetic Spores, Ymgarl Genestealers (technically, they can be made with the Genestealer kit), Tyranid Primes, and I'm probably forgetting one or two. Forgeworld help with Shrikes and Sky Slashers, but that didn't stop third parties making Warrior wings. Add to that weapon options with no kit like Tyrant Guard lashwhip/bonesword, and GW had a lot of new kits to release for just existing units, and GW won't release a new book without new units as well. Some were going to get left out, and those that got left out were going to get cut.

Regarding the likes of the Parasite and Doom, it's not uncommon for Tyranids. GW goes in cycles with Tyranids as well. 2nd edition had no special characters. 3rd edition did, and had unit mutations. 4th edition didn't, and brought in biomorph mutability. 5th cut biomorph mutability, and brought back special characters. 6th was due to lose special characters (except the Swarmlord since it's in plastic).

timd wrote:
Plenty of rumors of plastic greater demons coming...

I and I would give one of your kidneys to make them true.

Noctem wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 pretre wrote:

TyCorny wrote:
giant pyrovore anyone?

Nope

No just you. Everyone else saw giant Biovore.

Unless they've been around since Epic, in which case they saw an Exocrine.

I think the majority will see it as a massive pyrovore... I sure did.

That would have to mean the majority are players who have only been here for a few years.

Most people familiar with an Exocrine from Epic (like GW, for instance), immediately saw that for what it was. GW gave us an Exocrine to give us an Exocrine, not a giant Pyrovore. They've merely updated the aesthetic to fit in line with the (better) overall look of the contemporary 'nids.

Sinful Hero wrote:

Altruizine wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
How cool would it be if the haruspex could swallow entire vehicles whole, like the Red Terror used to do to infantry? That would be awesome.

Though by the model it looks like it's modus operandi is to use it's claws of life to pry open tanks and then feed on the insides.

This picture was posted on the Tyranid Hive earlier today, and might shed some light on your question. Haven't seen it in this thread yet:



Looks more like he'll be snacking on infantry than on vehicles.

I'm curious about the wargear categories illuminated by the leaked codex entries. So far we see:

- Biomorphs
- Basic bio-cannons
- Basic bio-weapons
- Melee bio-weapons

From that you can deduce that there will likely be "Advanced Bio-cannons" and "Advanced Bio-weapons" sections that separate things like Venom Cannons from Rupture Cannons, or Fleshborers from Fleshborer Hives, and so on. However, if their terminology was completely consistent, you might expect to see "Basic Melee bio-weapons" instead of what it actually says. I wonder if that means that all melee bio-weapons are in a single category. Warriors with Crushing Claws?

Yep, was posted on the last page. I doubt warriors will have access to crushing claws, but I don't know. It was mentioned that there will be "Rare Biomorphs" and one-per-army-type biomorphs as well, which they may be under along with other Carnifex-level weapons.

What a horrible way to go, eh? He may have known no fear before that moment...

spaceelf wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So Genestealers suck, and Warriors (unless there's a rule we don;t know about) appear to be Toughness 4 and terrible (again). Can we go three for three and have Lictors be useless yet again?

It depends what you mean by useless. If GW did not include them in the codex, then they will be useless. Otherwise, they will just be terrible.

GW always goes through cycles. The xenos had a few good codicies, and now it appears it is time for bad xeno codicies again. Speaking of cycles, it seems that GW is going back to squatting stuff again. It has been a while since they wrote units out of books. Oh for the days of halflings and war wagons.

Bad Xenos codices? Because Eldar, Necrons, and Tau aren't dominating tournaments or anything...

Anyone planning their purchases?

My strategy is preordering:

1 Box of Warriors (I own none, and will buy another if the codex is nice to them)
2 Harpy/Crone (I feel like they + a fly Tyrant will end up being the tourny list and if not I still enjoy fliers)
1 Exocrine/Haruspex (will buy another in case they both rule)
1 Hive/Tyrant Guard (I only own two guard and two Tyrant guard, so I can divy these up)

I currently have 40 gargoyles and am hoping Hormagants do not prove to be their equal, if they are I will get some of them later.

My wife gets a Riptide and Commander to add to her eldar force, should keep things fair at home.

I'm not looking forward to the painting. I cant play with an unpainted model. So it looks like a solid week of MC painting upon release.

 Iechine wrote:
Anyone planning their purchases?

My strategy is preordering:

1 Box of Warriors (I own none, and will buy another if the codex is nice to them)
2 Harpy/Crone (I feel like they + a fly Tyrant will end up being the tourny list and if not I still enjoy fliers)
1 Exocrine/Haruspex (will buy another in case they both rule)
1 Hive/Tyrant Guard (I only own two guard and two Tyrant guard, so I can divy these up)

I currently have 40 gargoyles and am hoping Hormagants do not prove to be their equal, if they are I will get some of them later.

My wife gets a Riptide and Commander to add to her eldar force, should keep things fair at home.

I'm not looking forward to the painting. I cant play with an unpainted model. So it looks like a solid week of MC painting upon release.

My army is pretty much where I want it, so I'm buying stuff I think looks cool. My group hasn't run with flyers yet either, so it makes avoiding the Harpy easier. I have a brood of 2 Hive Guard and a brood of 2 Zoanthropes, so I'll stick to buying another old Hive Guard and another Zoanthrope to fill those out later.

Codex
2x Exocrine/Haruspex (make 1 of each)
1x Warriors (I have 3 without arms right now, so I'll use the spares in the box to fit out those)

What I like most about this release is it nearly fills out the old biotanks from Epic. Trygon, Exocrine, Haruspex, Malefactor (Tervigon), Dacylis (no model). This is exactly what I hoped they'd do. The lack of a Dactylis is annoying, but at least I can ignore the Tyrannofex and pretend it never was, and just go with the Exocrine.

Honestly, I think we just have to wait.

I don't go back as far as you guys, but I do remember tooled-up Carnifexes wrecking face and swarms of Genestealers/Broodlord just straight up eating things. Two books ago, if I recall, when I first got into 40k.

I don't want to be a doom-and-gloom naysayer, and many people on here after seeing leaked Codex pages, are already deciding on units. But I mean, we could be surprised. I don't recall if anyone predicted how surprisingly powerful Coteaz + Troop Inquisitor Retinues could be before the GK Codex, did they? It was like a hidden gem in the Codex. Not like the GK needed more powerful options, but you know. Trying to make a point. There might be something pretty awesome that we don't know about.

With that said, though, I will also admit that things look pretty grim at the moment with things we have confirmed. Tervigons needing mandatory 30 Gants, no Pod, Warriors still dying to Krak Missiles, Genestealers being a cracked glass cannon... I so badly want this Codex to be at least mid-tier. I wait to see what the big beasties/flyers really do, (I'm particularly curious about the Haruspex "eating" things) and the updates to some of the less viable options, Pyrovores, Venomthropes, Lictors, etc... but I mean if we can be serious, they will probably be almost the exact same as last Codex. I just don't see them drastically changing anything. And big beasties, even with their good save/toughness/high Wounds... They can just die to massed fire/good sniper rolls/etc. Nidzilla has its own problems and I don't want to run it, to be honest.

I'm REALLY hoping for nasty Hormagaunts again. I love those little gribblies so much more than Termagants. If I can run Hormagaunts and a Carnifex again, Screamer-Killer maybe, I'll be pretty happy. I like the idea of Tyranids being an intergalactic locust swarm.

Tl;dr: We wait with bated breath for our beloved 'Nids, Warriors and Genestealers do not a success or failure make.

I already have a Tyrannofex. :(

I still bring him in occasionally, out of pity. Occasionally he acid sprays a group of Dire Avengers and all is well.

A year ago before my wife and I started playing, I would have never imagined caring this much about a book of rules for vastly overpriced plastic bug miniatures. But I do. : /

Eyjio wrote:

Until Genestealers return to their former glory of not only just having a 4+, but also being able to annihilate stuff in assault, they will remain unplayable. It's a sign of how bad assault is in 40k that to match their Space Hulk days genestealers would need 10 attacks EACH to regain their old chance to kill TEQ. I mean, think of what is viable in assault at the moment and tell me which of those hasn't got either a 2++ rerollable+at least 12" move, the potential for an immediate first turn assault or is an MC. Sorry for the rant, but it's just absurd.

I have heard these three rumors

1. Drop in points
2. +1 A and +1 WS
3. They get the "suprise" rule so only snap shots at them the turn they arrive.

Would any of these make them worth while you rekon?

 spaceelf wrote:
Speaking of cycles, it seems that GW is going back to squatting stuff again. It has been a while since they wrote units out of books. Oh for the days of halflings and war wagons.

Special characters, one unit without a model, and possibly Ymgarls which were just a headswap on normal Genestealers. And it is far from the first time a few units/characters were dropped from a book.
Pods can join Pariahs, and Doom and Parasite can join Macharius, Nazdreg, Gaunt, Schaffer, Cypher, Xavier, Doomrider, Red Terror, Namaan...

Could we PLEASE keep this thread clean of wishlists and purchase lists.

If I wanted to know what you were planning to buy it would pop up in my facebook feed.


Keep the discussion regarding rules and models coming PLEASE.


/Not a moderator or admin but a member that doesn't want to read 10 pages of crap..

bodazoka wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
Until Genestealers return to their former glory of not only just having a 4+, but also being able to annihilate stuff in assault, they will remain unplayable. It's a sign of how bad assault is in 40k that to match their Space Hulk days genestealers would need 10 attacks EACH to regain their old chance to kill TEQ. I mean, think of what is viable in assault at the moment and tell me which of those hasn't got either a 2++ rerollable+at least 12" move, the potential for an immediate first turn assault or is an MC. Sorry for the rant, but it's just absurd.

I have heard these three rumors

1. Drop in points
2. +1 A and +1 WS
3. They get the "suprise" rule so only snap shots at them the turn they arrive.

Would any of these make them worth while you rekon?

They would, but apparently they stay largely the same.