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Odd - Termagants can take Stranglewebs and Spike Rifles still, but there's no model for them. Since GW are pretty determined to not have even weapon options missing anymore, we might be seeing a second wave of models.

 -Loki- wrote:
Odd - Termagants can take Stranglewebs and Spike Rifles still, but there's no model for them. Since GW are pretty determined to not have even weapon options missing anymore, we might be seeing a second wave of models.

I wondered that too. Along with the port from Finecast, that might leave a 2nd wave like this:

Zoanthrope/Venomthrope - plastic kit 3 models
Pyrovore/Biovore - plastic kit 3 models
Termagants/Hormagaunts - plastic kit lots of models
Broodlord clam shell
Lictor clam shell/box?

The codex will probably tell us more, as the Dark Elves army book had pictures of the 2nd wave of models before they hit.

But did the WD have pics of the 2nd wave stuff before that month?

 brassangel wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Odd - Termagants can take Stranglewebs and Spike Rifles still, but there's no model for them. Since GW are pretty determined to not have even weapon options missing anymore, we might be seeing a second wave of models.

I wondered that too. Along with the port from Finecast, that might leave a 2nd wave like this:

Zoanthrope/Venomthrope - plastic kit 3 models
Pyrovore/Biovore - plastic kit 3 models
Termagants/Hormagaunts - plastic kit lots of models
Broodlord clam shell
Lictor clam shell/box?

The codex will probably tell us more, as the Dark Elves army book had pictures of the 2nd wave of models before they hit.

Could GW be trying to get rid of old stock with the rumored discount on Hormagaunts/Termagants? Might line up, but this seems far-fetched to me.

 -Loki- wrote:

Brutal Viking wrote:
Awwwwww.... saaaaaaad panda :(

To be fair, it was very obvious wishlisting. +30pts to spawn 4D6 gaunts per turn without constipating? Never was going to happen, ever.

I don't play nids yet as I've been waiting for the new codex to drop buti read it on another sight so I thought I would ask... even the no burnout would be nice. Seems like such a waste of a unit/points if you take one strictly to spawn gaunts and it loses that ability.

Brutal Viking wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

Brutal Viking wrote:
Awwwwww.... saaaaaaad panda :(

To be fair, it was very obvious wishlisting. +30pts to spawn 4D6 gaunts per turn without constipating? Never was going to happen, ever.

I don't play nids yet as I've been waiting for the new codex to drop buti read it on another sight so I thought I would ask... even the no burnout would be nice. Seems like such a waste of a unit/points if you take one strictly to spawn gaunts and it loses that ability.

Someone who takes a Tervigon strictly to churn out Termagants is doing it very wrong. It's a Monstrous Creature with a high number of attacks when upgraded with Crushing Claws that can Smash at S10, a very resiliant synapse point, can take 3 Biomancy powers, hands out Toxin Sacs and Adrenal glands to nearby Termagant units for free and is a scoring unit if you also take 10 Termagants. It's well worth its points without the Termagant spawning ability. I've had my Tervigon constipate itself on turn 1 and still bring plenty to the battle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 brassangel wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Odd - Termagants can take Stranglewebs and Spike Rifles still, but there's no model for them. Since GW are pretty determined to not have even weapon options missing anymore, we might be seeing a second wave of models.

I wondered that too. Along with the port from Finecast, that might leave a 2nd wave like this:

Zoanthrope/Venomthrope - plastic kit 3 models
Pyrovore/Biovore - plastic kit 3 models
Termagants/Hormagaunts - plastic kit lots of models
Broodlord clam shell
Lictor clam shell/box?

The codex will probably tell us more, as the Dark Elves army book had pictures of the 2nd wave of models before they hit.

That would be a fine second wave and would clear out what's left of the Finecast units, but I doubt we'll get something that extensive. GW were quite happy leaving Aspect Warriors in Finecase and they made some pretty logical dual or triple kits.

But still, the inclusion of Stranglewebs and Spikerifles is intriguing. Considering GW don't like hybrind upgrade packs aside from stop gaps, their inclusion hints at a future release, whether it's an upgrade pack or recut box.

 -Loki- wrote:

Someone who takes a Tervigon strictly to churn out Termagants is doing it very wrong. It's a Monstrous Creature with a high number of attacks when upgraded with Crushing Claws that can Smash at S10, a very resiliant synapse point, can take 3 Biomancy powers, hands out Toxin Sacs and Adrenal glands to nearby Termagant units for free and is a scoring unit if you also take 10 Termagants. It's well worth its points without the Termagant spawning ability. I've had my Tervigon constipate itself on turn 1 and still bring plenty to the battle.

This. Expecting a Tervigon to earn its points by spawning would be expecting it to spawn at least 40. I'm sure someone has managed that many in a game, but it is definitely unusual.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

Someone who takes a Tervigon strictly to churn out Termagants is doing it very wrong. It's a Monstrous Creature with a high number of attacks when upgraded with Crushing Claws that can Smash at S10, a very resiliant synapse point, can take 3 Biomancy powers, hands out Toxin Sacs and Adrenal glands to nearby Termagant units for free and is a scoring unit if you also take 10 Termagants. It's well worth its points without the Termagant spawning ability. I've had my Tervigon constipate itself on turn 1 and still bring plenty to the battle.

This. Expecting a Tervigon to earn its points by spawning would be expecting it to spawn at least 40. I'm sure someone has managed that many in a game, but it is definitely unusual.

I agree. And I also hope needing to take 30 gaunts to unlock it as trrops is true. I've read about plenty of games where the Nid player's army collapsed once the Tervigons were taken out since they had only taken the minimum number of Gaunts to unlock them.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

Someone who takes a Tervigon strictly to churn out Termagants is doing it very wrong. It's a Monstrous Creature with a high number of attacks when upgraded with Crushing Claws that can Smash at S10, a very resiliant synapse point, can take 3 Biomancy powers, hands out Toxin Sacs and Adrenal glands to nearby Termagant units for free and is a scoring unit if you also take 10 Termagants. It's well worth its points without the Termagant spawning ability. I've had my Tervigon constipate itself on turn 1 and still bring plenty to the battle.

This. Expecting a Tervigon to earn its points by spawning would be expecting it to spawn at least 40. I'm sure someone has managed that many in a game, but it is definitely unusual.

I agree. And I also hope needing to take 30 gaunts to unlock it as trrops is true. I've read about plenty of games where the Nid player's army collapsed once the Tervigons were taken out since they had only taken the minimum number of Gaunts to unlock them.

You are HOPING for less flexibility? What? Nothing is stopping you from running 30 if you choose, but forcing it is just adding a tax to taking a tervigon in practice. Why force unit selection at all, especially with what 6th edition has become with allies, dataslates, escalation, the fortification book and the INQ codex. The FoC is almost completely irrelevant for imperial armies, and they are slapping more constraints on Nids? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Granted, Tervigons were staring both the barrel of the nerf gun, but this is not the direction I would have gone.

Someone at my group remarked about the Haruspex being what happens when the Tyranids smoke a few too many cigarettes. Cancer of the mouth never looked so hideous. Ate a few too many Salamanders maybe?

 -Loki- wrote:

Brutal Viking wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

Brutal Viking wrote:
Awwwwww.... saaaaaaad panda :(

To be fair, it was very obvious wishlisting. +30pts to spawn 4D6 gaunts per turn without constipating? Never was going to happen, ever.

I don't play nids yet as I've been waiting for the new codex to drop buti read it on another sight so I thought I would ask... even the no burnout would be nice. Seems like such a waste of a unit/points if you take one strictly to spawn gaunts and it loses that ability.

Someone who takes a Tervigon strictly to churn out Termagants is doing it very wrong. It's a Monstrous Creature with a high number of attacks when upgraded with Crushing Claws that can Smash at S10, a very resiliant synapse point, can take 3 Biomancy powers, hands out Toxin Sacs and Adrenal glands to nearby Termagant units for free and is a scoring unit if you also take 10 Termagants. It's well worth its points without the Termagant spawning ability. I've had my Tervigon constipate itself on turn 1 and still bring plenty to the battle.

I had no idea, thanks for clarifying


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It burns out if you roll doubles right?

Yes its runs out on doubles, currently the only draw back.

And 4chan/whomever is the hoster broke the pics on pg 1 again

Caederes wrote:

Shingen wrote:
Same bio plasma that Carnifex's can have?

Hmm, I would think not honestly. Bio Plasma on Carnifexes' has always seemed more like just a pure vomit thing and would probably stay as a S7 AP2 small blast, or even be repurposed into a (Torrent or not) Template weapon. If it is though that would be sick.

@Janthkin - But it is 155 points. If it was like 180 or something I would agree, but the damage output of it is insane for the cost. I'm betting it does have higher stats than the old Harpy too, if Formosa could give us an idea on it and the Harpy's stats that would save us a lot of discussion lol.

I'm honestly surprised the weapon isn't a flamer though. Still, I think this is probably better, as it will also have utility against vehicles. I'm guessing the large blast is S8 AP2, again similar to the Exocrine, giving up 4 S7 AP2 shots (or 6 in the Exocrine's case) probably means the large blast is S8+ AP2. Which would, in conjunction with the Vector Strike, also ironically make this thing one of the best counters to Warriors and other T4 W2-3 models

To me it seems logical that the blast version would stay S7 AP2. Why would the strength go up? It also makes the most sense to me if the Carnifex version of bioplasma is identical (other than perhaps being a small blast, if in fact the Crone's is a large... which seems less likely than it being a small one as well).

On the topic of the Crone's damage output, don't forget that the parasite missiles are probably one-use, buy individually type weapons. Also, the range of bioplasma might stay locked at its current 12". For all we know, the S8 Vector Strike is also a purchaseable upgrade (tangentially, that might have a nice upside, if the same upgrade is available to the Harpy -- going on the leaked pictures, it does have those extra spines on its back, which do not appear on the Crone picture... they could just be irrelevant bits used to distinguish the Harpy from the Crone, but they could also be actual upgrades/weapons).

All in all the Crone seems like a prototypical glass cannon. They might end up being the kind of thing you need to field two of to really make work.

 -Loki- wrote:
Odd - Termagants can take Stranglewebs and Spike Rifles still, but there's no model for them. Since GW are pretty determined to not have even weapon options missing anymore, we might be seeing a second wave of models.

Perhaps eventually, but I doubt it would be any time soon. These weapons date back to 2E, and it costs GW nothing to leave the options in for now.

Eldar are in a similar situation, they have several old options still in their codex from previous editions without a proper model yet; some Exarch weapons, jetbike Warlocks and Farseers, etc.

@Altruizine

The same logic used with the Riptide's Ion Accelerator. If you give up 4 S7 shots, the large blast should be S8 to compensate. Of couse though, the Ion Accelerator also has Gets Hot for the large blast too, but it is only giving up 3 S7 shots instead. People forget that hitting a lot of models with large blasts when they are spaced out correctly is rare at best, which is why there would have to be an incentive to use it over regular shots. I don't think the Carnifexes' will be similar simply for the role the two perform. One is an anti-air flyer, the other is a ground 'tank'. Again, that one makes more sense to stay as a plasma cannon shot or as a template weapon of some sort. All they have to do is fix the darn range.

It was 155 in the battle report, and that is where the "leakers" found the Strength 8 Vector Strike and the "really strong" anti-air missiles used, so it is safe to say it has those base. Besides, why would a flying monstrous creature have to pay to use its' Vector Strike? What do the spines have to do with a Vector Strike? What would its base Strength be? Sorry, but it was described as having the S8 Vector Strike in the battle report, and it was shown at 155 points. Maybe it is an upgrade, but that would mean the Crone's base cost would be lower than 155, not the other way around. But since no upgrades were mentioned for it, I don't think it matters anyway. And look at its mouth, if that is what is modeled on the mouth, it is fair to say that comes stock with it. So 155 with all the guns, that seems right certain. The missiles are quite obviously one use, because every other missile on a flyer so far in 6th Edition is one-use as well. That isn't necessarily a bad thing as, again, it has a S8 Vector Strike and 4 S7 AP2 shots. If the missiles are even halfway decent, i.e. S7 AP3 Heavy 1, then that is more than enough firepower for the points. The issue for me is if it uses its Vector Strike, it can only shoot one missile afterwards.

Yes, the only issue there seems to be how it rates defensively. If it is T5 W4 4+, it will be the Tyranid equivalent of the Crimson Hunter. If however it has T6 W4 3+ like a current Hive Tyrant, then it will be a steal. The tidbits we've seen so far paint it in a very good light. Now, everyone remembers the battle report FUD from the Nephilim but something tells me this won't be the same.

Have we heard anything about the supplements yet?

 Carnage43 wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

I agree. And I also hope needing to take 30 gaunts to unlock it as trrops is true. I've read about plenty of games where the Nid player's army collapsed once the Tervigons were taken out since they had only taken the minimum number of Gaunts to unlock them.

You are HOPING for less flexibility? What? Nothing is stopping you from running 30 if you choose, but forcing it is just adding a tax to taking a tervigon in practice. Why force unit selection at all, especially with what 6th edition has become with allies, dataslates, escalation, the fortification book and the INQ codex. The FoC is almost completely irrelevant for imperial armies, and they are slapping more constraints on Nids? Doesn't make much sense to me.

This is just a sensible cap on min/maxed lists, especially alongside the points drop for Termagants. Taking 3 units of 10 was always silly and I'm glad they're adding some sensible limits.

Plus this isn't exactly a 'tax' on Tervigons switching FOC slots - you're still getting another unit of decent troops to use. It's not like you're paying 120pts purely to move to another slot, you're getting a 30-model unit your opponent has to deal with (which you will also undoubtedly be able to buff easily).

Just a bit of a thought on the defensive stats of the new Tyranid monsters.

Generally speaking, the defensive stats of many monsters is related in no small way to their size. A Daemon Prince is T5 W4, while a much beefier and stocky Carnifex is T6 W4. Riptides are about the same size as Trygons and Mawlocs, and thus it has T6 W5, while they have T6 W6. Dreadknights aren't that large and thus have T6 W4, while the gargantuan Wraithknight has T8 W6. My point here is that given that the Harpy and the Crone are going to be the two largest Flying Monstrous Creatures in a regular 40k codex by far now, as the only ones on flying stands - their proportions are roughly the same as a Heldrake - I honestly cannot see them having similar defensive stats (minus the invulnerable save) to a Daemon Prince. A Heldrake with its wing span takes up roughly three times or more the real estate a Daemon Prince does, and so will the Harpy an Crone. Can you honestly see the biggest Flying Monstrous Creatures in the game having puny T5 W4? I don't see it, which is why I think they will be T6 W5 at the least. As to the armour save, well, they don't look *as* well armoured as a Carnifex or Tervigon, but they do have what would usually qualify as a Bonded Exoskeleton on the other monsters. In short, I'm expecting the flyers to be T6 W5 3+.

Now, the Exocrine and the Haruspex are a bit of a different matter. They appear to be on the standard 'monster' oval bases, which would actually make them smaller than the Tyrannofex and Tervigon who are T6 W6 respectively. That gives me reason to believe they would be T6 W5, because they appear to fill that middle-ground between a Carnifex and a Tyrannofex in terms of size. The Haruspex appears to be bulkier than the Exocrine, which could manifest either as a boosted armour save - say, 2+ to the Exocrine's 3+ - or as a Toughness boost so as not to encroach too much on the T6 W6 monsters - T7 on the Haruspex, T6 on the Exocrine. I'm going to make the obvious call and say neither will have a 4+ armour save, simply because no "ground" Tyranid monstrous creature has an armour save worse than a 3+ - and yes, I'm not counting the Mycetic Spore for obvious reasons. Thinking about it though, the Haruspex and Exocrine are certainly a lot bulkier - like with the Carnifex to a Daemon Prince - than the Tyrannofex and Tervigon who take obvious cues from the front heavy Hierophant. With that in mind, I'm predicting the Haruspex will probably be T7 W5 2+, while the Exocrine will be T7 W5 3+. Whether those stats fit for the 170 point Exocrine are yet to be decided though, as the new codex will presumably have T6 W4 3+ Carnifexes at a confirmed 110-130 base cost.

I'm just spitballing and getting some thoughts off of my chest, feel free to tear them down if you wish My excitement for this codex is really palpable, I guess! I could be hilariously wrong, I could be quite accurate. I just honestly don't think that, at least in the case of the fliers, they will be T5 W4 4+ like the old Harpy. If Formosa can interject on these stats that would be awesome as, honestly, I'm doubtful they will fit the bill. Still, going off the way the current codex distinguishes size in terms of overall durability for monstrous creatures, stats similar to those wouldn't surprise me. Sorry for wasting your time


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldercaveman wrote:
Have we heard anything about the supplements yet?

It has been mentioned a few times that there would be a Tyrannic War Veterans dataslate as well as a Vanguard Swarm dataslate. I don't know anything about their validity though, sorry.

Eh, as much as I love to see it, after the Tau and Eldar fliers I would be very surprised to see the Harpy/Croneget get a more durable stat-line.

Caederes wrote:
@Altruizine

The same logic used with the Riptide's Ion Accelerator. If you give up 4 S7 shots, the large blast should be S8 to compensate. Of couse though, the Ion Accelerator also has Gets Hot for the large blast too, but it is only giving up 3 S7 shots instead. People forget that hitting a lot of models with large blasts when they are spaced out correctly is rare at best, which is why there would have to be an incentive to use it over regular shots. I don't think the Carnifexes' will be similar simply for the role the two perform. One is an anti-air flyer, the other is a ground 'tank'. Again, that one makes more sense to stay as a plasma cannon shot or as a template weapon of some sort. All they have to do is fix the darn range.

It was 155 in the battle report, and that is where the "leakers" found the Strength 8 Vector Strike and the "really strong" anti-air missiles used, so it is safe to say it has those base. Besides, why would a flying monstrous creature have to pay to use its' Vector Strike? What do the spines have to do with a Vector Strike? What would its base Strength be? Sorry, but it was described as having the S8 Vector Strike in the battle report, and it was shown at 155 points. Maybe it is an upgrade, but that would mean the Crone's base cost would be lower than 155, not the other way around. But since no upgrades were mentioned for it, I don't think it matters anyway. And look at its mouth, if that is what is modeled on the mouth, it is fair to say that comes stock with it. So 155 with all the guns, that seems right certain. The missiles are quite obviously one use, because every other missile on a flyer so far in 6th Edition is one-use as well. That isn't necessarily a bad thing as, again, it has a S8 Vector Strike and 4 S7 AP2 shots. If the missiles are even halfway decent, i.e. S7 AP3 Heavy 1, then that is more than enough firepower for the points. The issue for me is if it uses its Vector Strike, it can only shoot one missile afterwards.

Yes, the only issue there seems to be how it rates defensively. If it is T5 W4 4+, it will be the Tyranid equivalent of the Crimson Hunter. If however it has T6 W4 3+ like a current Hive Tyrant, then it will be a steal. The tidbits we've seen so far paint it in a very good light. Now, everyone remembers the battle report FUD from the Nephilim but something tells me this won't be the same.

Disclaimer; I'm not very familiar with the Tau codex, other than through internet lore, since my only Tau opponent has not yet updated his army for 6th edition.

That said, aren't there better comparisons to make than the Riptide? For one thing, I'm assuming the Riptide has a BS of at least 4, meaning those individual shots will be more likely to land than anything fired by a BS3 Tyranid. The Tau player needs more of an incentive than the Tyranid player to switch over to the blast template mode. To me, a better comparison would be the way Cluster Spines and Stinger Salvos compare in the current Tyranid codex. The Salvo shots hit slightly harder, because they're harder to hit with. The Cluster will connect with more models, but packs less punch. I think that will be closer to the trade-off that multiple bioplasma firing modes would entail. And let's be realistic, you can hit a LOT more than four models (or the BS3 average of 2 hits) with a large template, even if they're spaced out at max coherency.

Fair point about the Crone cost vs. the hypothetical spine upgrades -- even if they were an upgrade, that must have been included in the 155 points reported by the batrep. I don't understand your questions about how the upgrade would work, though. All FMCs have the native ability to perform Vector Strikes, at their strength value. So that's how it would work for the Crone if the S8 option was an upgrade. Do WD batreps have an armylist section that displays all the weapons and upgrades on every unit? If they do, I'm somewhat surprised we haven't heard more about that stuff (ie. the correct name for the parasite missiles!)

 Carnage43 wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

Someone who takes a Tervigon strictly to churn out Termagants is doing it very wrong. It's a Monstrous Creature with a high number of attacks when upgraded with Crushing Claws that can Smash at S10, a very resiliant synapse point, can take 3 Biomancy powers, hands out Toxin Sacs and Adrenal glands to nearby Termagant units for free and is a scoring unit if you also take 10 Termagants. It's well worth its points without the Termagant spawning ability. I've had my Tervigon constipate itself on turn 1 and still bring plenty to the battle.

This. Expecting a Tervigon to earn its points by spawning would be expecting it to spawn at least 40. I'm sure someone has managed that many in a game, but it is definitely unusual.

I agree. And I also hope needing to take 30 gaunts to unlock it as trrops is true. I've read about plenty of games where the Nid player's army collapsed once the Tervigons were taken out since they had only taken the minimum number of Gaunts to unlock them.

You are HOPING for less flexibility? What? Nothing is stopping you from running 30 if you choose, but forcing it is just adding a tax to taking a tervigon in practice. Why force unit selection at all, especially with what 6th edition has become with allies, dataslates, escalation, the fortification book and the INQ codex. The FoC is almost completely irrelevant for imperial armies, and they are slapping more constraints on Nids? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Granted, Tervigons were staring both the barrel of the nerf gun, but this is not the direction I would have gone.

Maybe they want to make other options more viable instead of needing to take more than one Tervigon to be competitive. I don't a ton about competitive Tyranid play but I remember seeing them used a ton.

Altruizine wrote:

Disclaimer; I'm not very familiar with the Tau codex, other than through internet lore, since my only Tau opponent has not yet updated his army for 6th edition.

That said, aren't there better comparisons to make than the Riptide? For one thing, I'm assuming the Riptide has a BS of at least 4, meaning those individual shots will be more likely to land than anything fired by a BS3 Tyranid. The Tau player needs more of an incentive than the Tyranid player to switch over to the blast template mode. To me, a better comparison would be the way Cluster Spines and Stinger Salvos compare in the current Tyranid codex. The Salvo shots hit slightly harder, because they're harder to hit with. The Cluster will connect with more models, but packs less punch. I think that will be closer to the trade-off that multiple bioplasma firing modes would entail. And let's be realistic, you can hit a LOT more than four models (or the BS3 average of 2 hits) with a large template, even if they're spaced out at max coherency.

Fair point about the Crone cost vs. the hypothetical spine upgrades -- even if they were an upgrade, that must have been included in the 155 points reported by the batrep. I don't understand your questions about how the upgrade would work, though. All FMCs have the native ability to perform Vector Strikes, at their strength value. So that's how it would work for the Crone if the S8 option was an upgrade. Do WD batreps have an armylist section that displays all the weapons and upgrades on every unit? If they do, I'm somewhat surprised we haven't heard more about that stuff (ie. the correct name for the parasite missiles!)

The Riptide is BS3, but of course as a Tau that may change thanks to markerlights.

Altruizine wrote:

Caederes wrote:
@Altruizine

The same logic used with the Riptide's Ion Accelerator. If you give up 4 S7 shots, the large blast should be S8 to compensate. Of couse though, the Ion Accelerator also has Gets Hot for the large blast too, but it is only giving up 3 S7 shots instead. People forget that hitting a lot of models with large blasts when they are spaced out correctly is rare at best, which is why there would have to be an incentive to use it over regular shots. I don't think the Carnifexes' will be similar simply for the role the two perform. One is an anti-air flyer, the other is a ground 'tank'. Again, that one makes more sense to stay as a plasma cannon shot or as a template weapon of some sort. All they have to do is fix the darn range.

It was 155 in the battle report, and that is where the "leakers" found the Strength 8 Vector Strike and the "really strong" anti-air missiles used, so it is safe to say it has those base. Besides, why would a flying monstrous creature have to pay to use its' Vector Strike? What do the spines have to do with a Vector Strike? What would its base Strength be? Sorry, but it was described as having the S8 Vector Strike in the battle report, and it was shown at 155 points. Maybe it is an upgrade, but that would mean the Crone's base cost would be lower than 155, not the other way around. But since no upgrades were mentioned for it, I don't think it matters anyway. And look at its mouth, if that is what is modeled on the mouth, it is fair to say that comes stock with it. So 155 with all the guns, that seems right certain. The missiles are quite obviously one use, because every other missile on a flyer so far in 6th Edition is one-use as well. That isn't necessarily a bad thing as, again, it has a S8 Vector Strike and 4 S7 AP2 shots. If the missiles are even halfway decent, i.e. S7 AP3 Heavy 1, then that is more than enough firepower for the points. The issue for me is if it uses its Vector Strike, it can only shoot one missile afterwards.

Yes, the only issue there seems to be how it rates defensively. If it is T5 W4 4+, it will be the Tyranid equivalent of the Crimson Hunter. If however it has T6 W4 3+ like a current Hive Tyrant, then it will be a steal. The tidbits we've seen so far paint it in a very good light. Now, everyone remembers the battle report FUD from the Nephilim but something tells me this won't be the same.

Disclaimer; I'm not very familiar with the Tau codex, other than through internet lore, since my only Tau opponent has not yet updated his army for 6th edition.

That said, aren't there better comparisons to make than the Riptide? For one thing, I'm assuming the Riptide has a BS of at least 4, meaning those individual shots will be more likely to land than anything fired by a BS3 Tyranid. The Tau player needs more of an incentive than the Tyranid player to switch over to the blast template mode. To me, a better comparison would be the way Cluster Spines and Stinger Salvos compare in the current Tyranid codex. The Salvo shots hit slightly harder, because they're harder to hit with. The Cluster will connect with more models, but packs less punch. I think that will be closer to the trade-off that multiple bioplasma firing modes would entail. And let's be realistic, you can hit a LOT more than four models (or the BS3 average of 2 hits) with a large template, even if they're spaced out at max coherency.

Fair point about the Crone cost vs. the hypothetical spine upgrades -- even if they were an upgrade, that must have been included in the 155 points reported by the batrep. I don't understand your questions about how the upgrade would work, though. All FMCs have the native ability to perform Vector Strikes, at their strength value. So that's how it would work for the Crone if the S8 option was an upgrade. Do WD batreps have an armylist section that displays all the weapons and upgrades on every unit? If they do, I'm somewhat surprised we haven't heard more about that stuff (ie. the correct name for the parasite missiles!)

Yeah Riptides are Ballistic Skill 3 mate, so basically the Exocrine and Crone are likely to have the same kind of thing if tradition holds. As far as Stinger Salvo and Cluster Spines, the only difference aside from the way they are fired is that Stinger Salvos are AP4 and Cluster Spines are AP-. However, the Stinger Salvo only hits 2 models on average anyway. IMO *especially* for the Exocrine the large blast has to be something special, i.e. S8-9 Ordnance simply because, even unlike the Riptide, that is *6* S7 shots you are giving up. If the Riptide at BS3 has to have S8 on its blast, it makes sense that the Crone and Exocrine both with (presumably) BS3 and *more S7 shots* would want even more reason to swap over. As far as large blasts go, I was referring more to how many they usually hit. Tyranid ones are even more inaccurate than usual, and most are lucky to hit more than 4 models, if that, I've found. A direct hit on 2" perfectly spaced models, depending on the formation, I think can hit 5 models if you place it and it doesn't scatter. I use large blast weapons a lot - from Vindicators to Night Spinners to Riptides and so on - and I'm usually very lucky to hit any more than that. Of course though, not all opponents take the time to do the 2" max coherency.

As a side note that I think needs mentioning, the BS of the Riptide almost doesn't matter

That was what I was saying. Your post seemed to imply it was an upgrade for the Vector Strike but the White Dwarf had it as part of the unit, so that is my mistake. As far as the profile goes, the White Dwarf army list section *only* displays the unit and any upgrades they have taken as well as the total points costs. That is why we don't know anything about the names of the guns and so on.

Altruizine wrote:
All in all the Crone seems like a prototypical glass cannon. They might end up being the kind of thing you need to field two of to really make work.

Seems like a good bet. MC spam in general should help them. My early, poorly-informed, possibly-wildly-wrong opinion is that things are pointing to Nidzilla's return in a major way.

Any way we can remove the 'New Pictures' tag from the thread title until there are post Dec 10th new pics added?

 gorgon wrote:

Altruizine wrote:
All in all the Crone seems like a prototypical glass cannon. They might end up being the kind of thing you need to field two of to really make work.

Seems like a good bet. MC spam in general should help them. My early, poorly-informed, possibly-wildly-wrong opinion is that things are pointing to Nidzilla's return in a major way.

Hell yes, especially if one of the monsters has moved to Elites, whether it be a new one or Carnifexes - though Carnifexes make the most sense. Much, much cheaper for the most part in terms of points, and presumably improved in profile as well.

From the rumours I think we will be able to run a hoard army or a mc army, with the mc army probably being better but the hoard army will being better than it is right now. Flying mc spam is the way to go I think. 3 flyrants and 3 harpy/crone with a couple of squads of troops because FOC says you have to sounds so good! Especially if they make the harpy/crone a flyer and non groundable. I can't wait for this codex!!!

Yeah, they aren't going to make the FMC grounding immune. That's just silly.

They will make the Harpy and Crones flyers though. In fact, I think the Harpy is already a FMC.

Caederes wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

Altruizine wrote:
All in all the Crone seems like a prototypical glass cannon. They might end up being the kind of thing you need to field two of to really make work.

Seems like a good bet. MC spam in general should help them. My early, poorly-informed, possibly-wildly-wrong opinion is that things are pointing to Nidzilla's return in a major way.

Hell yes, especially if one of the monsters has moved to Elites, whether it be a new one or Carnifexes - though Carnifexes make the most sense. Much, much cheaper for the most part in terms of points, and presumably improved in profile as well.

We could use some FOC-shifting/expanding abilities in general. Tyranids have a pretty sizeable back-catalogue of units and I'll bet we'll see certain slots overcrowded with decent units just like Elites were in 5E.

Why a new warrior box? The currents don't really need replacing.