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 streamdragon wrote:
If Horms are 9ppm, then we will still see nothing but Terms + Tervs as troops. Disappointing.

Their cost with both upgrades remains unchanged at 10.
And Bounding Leap is only +3" run. They have nothing new otherwise in their profile, before someone says that they might still have some hidden feature. If there is then it's in Synapse, otherwise that's it.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
New picture of. Hive Guard up on 4chan. On my phone or I'd link it. Also rippers and hormagaunts leaked- same statlines. Toxins sacs are 3 pts now, adrenal glands are still two.(supposedly). They did drop one point per model though, and rippers cost 3 more.

Adrenals are 2 points.....

Hormigaunts with both are equally expensive to what they previously were? Even if that blurry 3 for toxin sacs is actaully a 1, it still isn't enough to make hormigaunt viable unless scything talons are way better than they used to be.

 Imposter101 wrote:


From /tg/.

Nice, thanks!

 Vhalyar wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
If Horms are 9ppm, then we will still see nothing but Terms + Tervs as troops. Disappointing.

Their cost with both upgrades remains unchanged at 10.
And Bounding Leap is only +3" run. They have nothing new otherwise in their profile, before someone says that they might still have some hidden feature. If there is then it's in Synapse, otherwise that's it.

Are Scything Talons any better than they were?

rigeld2 wrote:
Are Scything Talons any better than they were?

Good question, I forgot about that.

That might be the big change then. Based on the cost of those on Genestealers, there's definitely something curious going - either they've gone up in price for no reason or they have been nicely boosted. So i guess there's that.

Also Rippers have lost their Mindless rule, so they no longer suffer outside of Synapse like before. Still wouldn't justify why the worst swarm in the game would get costed even more.
Their Adrenal Gland upgrade has... increased in cost too? Hard to tell if that's a 4/5/6.

 Carnage43 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
New picture of. Hive Guard up on 4chan. On my phone or I'd link it. Also rippers and hormagaunts leaked- same statlines. Toxins sacs are 3 pts now, adrenal glands are still two.(supposedly). They did drop one point per model though, and rippers cost 3 more.

Adrenals are 2 points.....

Hormigaunts with both are equally expensive to what they previously were? Even if that blurry 3 for toxin sacs is actaully a 1, it still isn't enough to make hormigaunt viable unless scything talons are way better than they used to be.

Yes, that's what I said. What I mean by supposedly is the entries are starting to make me suspicious. Do they normally include they entry for all troop choices in White Dwarf?

I'm with Sinful Hero - until I see these in a white dwarf surrounded by a photobox and magazine text, It's hard to believe that we're getting identical stats and point costs for all our main troops (Bar termagants).

IF these pictures are authentic -Either basic biomorphs like scything talons, toxin sacs, and adrenal glands have changed dramatically, or the WD design studio took a big crap on this Tyranid dex like Cruddace.

I'll reserve final judgment until after i've seen the entire codex and not just these little snippets - but something isn't sitting right here.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I'm with Sinful Hero - until I see these in a white dwarf surrounded by a photobox and magazine text, It's hard to believe that we're getting identical stats and point costs for all our main troops (Bar termagants).

Why not? The Eldar codex was mostly a copy-pasta job of near-identical units and options with just a few points tweaked from the previous codex. Most of the key changes were in the form of army-wide special rules and improved weapons/wargear.

Also the source for these rules is the same guy providing pics of new units. I don't believe any other rumours about EW and so on, but I doubt these Troop entries are fake.

The big question now is if/how the core rules like biomorphs and weapons have changed.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I'm with Sinful Hero - until I see these in a white dwarf surrounded by a photobox and magazine text, It's hard to believe that we're getting identical stats and point costs for all our main troops (Bar termagants).

IF these pictures are authentic -Either basic biomorphs like scything talons, toxin sacs, and adrenal glands have changed dramatically, or the WD design studio took a big crap on this Tyranid dex like Cruddace.

I'll reserve final judgment until after i've seen the entire codex and not just these little snippets - but something isn't sitting right here.

OR!

The codex is actually written by Cruddace and GW new nobody would buy the codex so they said it was written by the "GW Design Team"...sneaky games workshop, real sneaky.

 xttz wrote:
Why not? The Eldar codex was mostly a copy-pasta job of near-identical units and options with just a few points tweaked from the previous codex. Most of the key changes were in the form of army-wide special rules and improved weapons/wargear.

Umm. The Eldar Codex was not a copy paste job. You'd want to look at the two previous eldar codexes to see a copy paste job.

If genuine, it's hard to understand the point costs without some improvements we're not seeing. Sixth edition codices have been based on their 4th/5th ed versions (Daemons excluded), but they have to want to sell Hormagaunts at some point, right?

Maybe Scything Talons grant Preferred Enemy? Weren't there some rumors about CC biomorphs helping shooting and vice versa? That would fit, although it wouldn't make a ton of fluff sense or help Hormagaunts as much as the shooty broods.

Oh hello there you sexy beasts . The paint job is indeed a bit strange unless Tyranids have now lava flowing under their armor. The crushing claws are a surprise. To suspect therefore they are motorcycle clubs is a bit too far in my opinion. Would it make sense rulewise? making anything easier to determin when a MC Charckter is part of an MC squad? The lash whip looks oddly thick but nothing greenstuff can't fix.

Anybody got a link to the /tg/ thread so i can see these hormagaunt/ripper stats?

Also preferred enemy isn't worth 4 points on a genestealer - they have zero shooting abilities. The only way i can see adding scytals costing so much for them is if they go back to counting as an additional set of weapons like they used to. Then +1 Attack and Preferred enemy make way more sense for 4 pts. But then again with poison re-rolling to wound most targets, it seems that might be the better upgrade.

Oh i just don't know what to think! January 11 needs to arrive soon!

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Anybody got a link to the /tg/ thread so i can see these hormagaunt/ripper stats?

Google is your friend.

"/tg/ hormagaunt ripper" Set search tools to last 24 hours

Aaaanyways:

http://boards.4chan.org/tg/res/28939958
and the pic in question:
http://i.4cdn.org/tg/src/1387390096662.jpg

I really do like the new Guard. I prefer the old Tyrant Guard because they looked like barely sentient slabs of meat, but these are pretty cool. Lash whip looks lame.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Also preferred enemy isn't worth 4 points on a genestealer - they have zero shooting abilities.

I honestly truly believe that they don't consider that fact when they write rules like that. Same reason why Warriors still suck and why things like Rippers will go up in price: Rules written in a vacuum.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Anybody got a link to the /tg/ thread so i can see these hormagaunt/ripper stats?

Also preferred enemy isn't worth 4 points on a genestealer - they have zero shooting abilities. The only way i can see adding scytals costing so much for them is if they go back to counting as an additional set of weapons like they used to. Then +1 Attack and Preferred enemy make way more sense for 4 pts. But then again with poison re-rolling to wound most targets, it seems that might be the better upgrade.

Oh i just don't know what to think! January 11 needs to arrive soon!

Preferred enemy gives a (limited) reroll against higher T values though, and pairs nicely with rending. Sure, it's entirely possible some biomorphs grant more than one bonus, like with the rumors about adrenals granting both furious charge and a run + assault move. They seem cheap for an extra attack though. So preferred enemy plus an AP value?

We have the unit entries, but the devil is really in the details. Personally, I'm preparing to be underwhelmed, but who knows?

Preferred enemy doesn't just work on shooting... Rerolling all 1's on hit and wound is pretty good.

 pretre wrote:
Preferred enemy doesn't just work on shooting... Rerolling all 1's on hit and wound is pretty good.

4 points a model good? They're costing them based on a WS6 creature, which makes less sense as WS6 creatures miss less anyway, and this particular WS6 creature has no shooting skills.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Preferred enemy doesn't just work on shooting... Rerolling all 1's on hit and wound is pretty good.

4 points a model good? They're costing them based on a WS6 creature, which makes less sense as WS6 creatures miss less anyway, and this particular WS6 creature has no shooting skills.

Not really . Lol

I should have quoted the previous guy since he made it sound like PE only worked on shooting.

So Hormagaunts are not beasts, they just have Bounding Leap.

Rippers have the ability to upgrade into the "Derp Strike" special rule? i hope that's similar to the Necron Scarab armor reduction thing.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Preferred enemy doesn't just work on shooting... Rerolling all 1's on hit and wound is pretty good.

4 points a model good? They're costing them based on a WS6 creature, which makes less sense as WS6 creatures miss less anyway, and this particular WS6 creature has no shooting skills.

But as you alluded, this discussion isn't really about whether preferred enemy is good enough to be worth 4 pts...it's about whether it's good enough that GW might think it's worth 4 pts. And yeah, I think it has a chance to be in the latter category.

I don't think players should be preparing to be blown away by the answers to some of these questions. But some things might surprise.

 Absolutionis wrote:
So Hormagaunts are not beasts, they just have Bounding Leap.

Rippers have the ability to upgrade into the "Derp Strike" special rule? i hope that's similar to the Necron Scarab armor reduction thing.

They have it in the current codex as well. It's used exactly as often as normal Rippers are.

 Absolutionis wrote:
So Hormagaunts are not beasts, they just have Bounding Leap.

Fleet and +3" to running is a good combo, I'm okay with that.

I understand that preferred enemy works in shooting and assault phases - but genestealers and hormagaunts only would benefit from it in the assault phase, thus halving it's utility immediately, followed by the fact that poison offers an often better effect for what appears to be cheaper points in the leaked unit entries.

I'm also making a mistake in assuming the GW design team pays attention to what they're writing in context with the game. After all, Tau, Eldar, and Space Marines have all been very competent books by my standards and I would hope Tyranids would follow in suit. Therefore, when an upgrade costs a strange amount of points (also when you compare a genestealer's points and wargear vs a basic space marine's points and wargear) it baffles the mind. Again, as i've said, we are looking at a very tiny snippet of an upcoming book so final judgment awaits...

Question...wouldn't preferred enemy on the scything talons be identical to what we have now? (ie re-rolling 1s to hit) but actually worse since two sets of scything talons is re-rolls to all hits? If that is the case then it makes NO sense why the price would double for them on Genestealers. I am seriously hoping there are some standard Tyranid army wide rules that help out with most units in question.

To be fair though the best part of the 5th ed Dex was the small bugs. Virtually all of them were decent and a massive upgrade from 4th to 5th (as the issue with the 4th ed dex was insanely overpriced small bugs). So if these ARE the final stats for our small critters then honestly I wont be too put out especially considering the massive discounts our MCs are seeing based on the rumors.

ghoulio wrote:
Question...wouldn't preferred enemy on the scything talons be identical to what we have now? (ie re-rolling 1s to hit) but actually worse since two sets of scything talons is re-rolls to all hits? If that is the case then it makes NO sense why the price would double for them on Genestealers. I am seriously hoping there are some standard Tyranid army wide rules that help out with most units in question.

It would be better on a single set - you can re-roll 1s to wound as well as to hit.
We don't know what 2 sets would give you.

The points for hormagaunts adrenal glands compared to the increase rippers makes me think they DO grant fleet+FC - this would explain the genestealer cost not changing too. Unfortunately, it also means that the people designing these rules are so stupid that they think S4 and reasonably reliable assault charges are worth 17 points on a swarm and 7 on a T3 6+ model. I hope that the rest of the codex is really good because these troops are a bad joke. Compare Hormagaunts and Termagants to Kroot/Guardmen and cry. Compare Rippers to Canoptek Scarabs and wonder what they were thinking.

Very, very disappointed. Looks like yet more termagant and Tervigon troops until the next codex, because the rest just aren't worth taking. The only one with a chance is Warriors and that's only if their weapon options are super good, the synapse thing does grant EW AND Primes are cheapo HQs with no better options (AKA flyrants need to somehow be worse value than a prime). Sure, the rest of the codex might be awesome but any hope of a good swarm build just disappeared.

Rerolls on all misses and failed wounds?

Although we're stacking up the hypotheticals at this point.

Is there any chance that is a 1 instead of a 3 for toxin sacs?

that is a bit disheartening that they end up being the same fully loaded. I just can't see running them without toxin.

BeeCee wrote:
Is there any chance that is a 1 instead of a 3 for toxin sacs?

that is a bit disheartening that they end up being the same fully loaded. I just can't see running them without toxin.

Way too curved. Compare to the 1 under wounds or the 13 for ripper swarm points per extra base. It's 3, for whatever reason.