Tyranid Release in January: GW pre-orders up, discussion starts pg 80

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**rollawaythestone**

I am hoping that it's a 1 and not a 3. Looks like a 1 to me. But I will be crushed if toxin haunts are still 8 ppm. Hoping that adrenal glands are awesome and synergies nicely with their +3 run. Can also hope that the Onslaught power lets things run and assault, unles we get that power some other way.

**Zookie**

Where are these chan 4 leaks coming from? Some people have said White Dwarf. But this seems like a lot of stat leaks for a WD article.

Call me suspicious but the piecemeal nature, the lack of a cited source, the fact that none of the big 40k rumor sites seems to give them much notice, coupled with some odd omission makes me think that this is part of an elaborate hoax.

Also all this leaks have been very blurry, unless that was intentional in order to launch debate why would you not just rescan it? The leaked photos are all fine.

**Medium of Death**

Imposter101 wrote:
*snip*

From /tg/.

That lash whip looks a little boxy... will wait for GW pics.

**Sinful Hero**

BeeCee wrote:
Is there any chance that is a 1 instead of a 3 for toxin sacs?

that is a bit disheartening that they end up being the same fully loaded. I just can't see running them without toxin.

Can't say that it is. Looks like you're paying the old price for gaunts with toxin sacs. On the plus side, scything talons may be buffed so they'll still be better than the old version.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zookie wrote:
Where are these chan 4 leaks coming from? Some people have said White Dwarf. But this seems like a lot of stat leaks for a WD article.

Call me suspicious but the piecemeal nature, the lack of a cited source, the fact that none of the big 40k rumor sites seems to give them much notice, coupled with some odd omission makes me think that this is part of an elaborate hoax.

It IS possible that some of this is a hoax, but he also posts the pictures along with them lending some credibility to it . That still doesn't rule out that the statlines are fake.

**Kirasu**

xttz wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:
I'm with Sinful Hero - until I see these in a white dwarf surrounded by a photobox and magazine text, It's hard to believe that we're getting identical stats and point costs for all our main troops (Bar termagants).

Why not? The Eldar codex was mostly a copy-pasta job of near-identical units and options with just a few points tweaked from the previous codex. Most of the key changes were in the form of army-wide special rules and improved weapons/wargear.

Also the source for these rules is the same guy providing pics of new units. I don't believe any other rumours about EW and so on, but I doubt these Troop entries are fake.

The big question now is if/how the core rules like biomorphs and weapons have changed.

Yeah not sure where you got that with the Eldar book? Almost every single unit was changed, perhaps not in stats but in wargear, abilities, etc..

**Zookie**

Sinful Hero wrote:
BeeCee wrote:
Is there any chance that is a 1 instead of a 3 for toxin sacs?

that is a bit disheartening that they end up being the same fully loaded. I just can't see running them without toxin.

Can't say that it is. Looks like you're paying the old price for gaunts with toxin sacs. On the plus side, scything talons may be buffed so they'll still be better than the old version.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zookie wrote:
Where are these chan 4 leaks coming from? Some people have said White Dwarf. But this seems like a lot of stat leaks for a WD article.

Call me suspicious but the piecemeal nature, the lack of a cited source, the fact that none of the big 40k rumor sites seems to give them much notice, coupled with some odd omission makes me think that this is part of an elaborate hoax.

It IS possible that some of this is a hoax, but he also posts the pictures along with them lending some credibility to it . That still doesn't rule out that the statlines are fake.

But the leaks have been very blurry, why would you not just rescan in? The leaked photos are all fine. I think it may be an intentional attempt hid the dissimilarities with font and design for previous codexes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zookie wrote:
Sinful Hero wrote:
BeeCee wrote:
Is there any chance that is a 1 instead of a 3 for toxin sacs?

that is a bit disheartening that they end up being the same fully loaded. I just can't see running them without toxin.

Can't say that it is. Looks like you're paying the old price for gaunts with toxin sacs. On the plus side, scything talons may be buffed so they'll still be better than the old version.

**BeeCee**

my problem is at 8 ppm with toxin even if scytal are buffed, i have to get them there. sure they might run a little bit faster.

I was hoping to run quite a few of those little buggers again. going to try to remain positive.

**Redemption**

Zookie wrote:But the leaks have been very blurry, why would you not just rescan in? The leaked photos are all fine, not blurry at all. I think it may be an intentional attempt hid the dissimilarities with font and design for previous codexes.

That's because the model pictures are usually large page wide images, while the unit entries pictures are from thumbnails of the some of the codex pages that are only like 2cm wide; no matter how good a scanner you have, you can't scan in detail that's not there.

BeeCee wrote:my problem is at 8 ppm with toxin even if scytal are buffed, i have to get them there. sure they might run a little bit faster.

I was hoping to run quite a few of those little buggers again. going to try to remain positive.

Well, we don't know have any the info about scything talons, toxin sacs, adrenal glands, instinctive behaviour, synapse, the Tyranid psychic powers or any other buff other models might give them. Any of those could turn a mediocre unit into a great unit for all we know. I'll hold out with 'the sky is falling' comments until I have the codex in hand.

**BeeCee**

Very true Redemption, Hence my trying to remain positive comment

**xttz**

Kirasu wrote:
xttz wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:
I'm with Sinful Hero - until I see these in a white dwarf surrounded by a photobox and magazine text, It's hard to believe that we're getting identical stats and point costs for all our main troops (Bar termagants).

Why not? The Eldar codex was mostly a copy-pasta job of near-identical units and options with just a few points tweaked from the previous codex. Most of the key changes were in the form of army-wide special rules and improved weapons/wargear.

Also the source for these rules is the same guy providing pics of new units. I don't believe any other rumours about EW and so on, but I doubt these Troop entries are fake.

The big question now is if/how the core rules like biomorphs and weapons have changed.

Yeah not sure where you got that with the Eldar book? Almost every single unit was changed, perhaps not in stats but in wargear, abilities, etc..

Really?

Dire Avengers 4E:
5-10 models in the unit
One may be upgraded to an Exarch with:
>Twin shurikens, or
>Diresword + pistol, or
>Power weapon + shimmershield
May take 2 DA Exarch powers
May take a Wave serpent

Dire Avengers 6E:
5-10 models in the unit
One may be upgraded to an Exarch with:
>Twin shurikens, or
>Diresword + pistol, or
>Power weapon + shimmershield
May take select Exarch powers from the new shared list
May take a Wave serpent

------

Guardians 4E:
10-20 models per unit
Must take weapon platform with one of 5 weapons
May take a wave serpent

Guardians 6E:
10-20 models per unit
May take weapon platform with one of 5 weapons
May take a wave serpent

------

Jetbikes 4E:
3-12 models per unit
Can take a shuricannon for every 3 models

Jetbikes 6E:
3-10 models per unit
Can take a shuricannon for every 3 models

--------

Vyper Squadron 4E:
Must take one of five heavy weapon choices
May replace shuripults with shuricannon
May choose vehicle upgrades

Vyper Squadron 6E:
Must take one of five heavy weapon choices
May replace shuripults with shuricannon
May choose vehicle upgrades

-------

Falcon 4E:
Must take one of five heavy weapon choices
May replace shuripults with shuricannon
May choose vehicle upgrades
Transports 6 models

Falcon 6E:
Must take one of five heavy weapon choices
May replace shuripults with shuricannon
May choose vehicle upgrades
Transports 6 models

The vast majority of stat changes in the Eldar book were applied across the board to non-Aspect units (BS4 / I5) - there was very little tweaking of specific unit statlines.

This comparison is very similar to what we're seeing for Nids right now... some points reductions/tweaks but very similar unit entries overall. The army list generally remained the same - there were no huge surprises like Guardians with multiple Bright Lance platforms or Wave Serpents with 5 HP. Hell, everyone was screaming that Serpents were way overcosted when that unit entry leaked (but before we saw Serpent Shield).
For Eldar, the big changes were in the armywide rules: Battle Focus, Shuriken weapons, Scatter Lasers, a centralised Exarch powers list, and generally stuff that isn't obvious from the main army list.

I have no doubt Nids will see the biggest shifts in many of the rules they share between units, and until they're out and people have the whole picture, they're going to continue crying over how terrible the new codex is going to be. Just like they did about Eldar 6 months ago.

**tomball0706**

Yeah my earlier fence sitting about whether or not I like the new Hive gaurd has definitely changed. Gimme three of those bad boys with crushing claws, hello crab attack!

However, the last whip looks a little to fat and chunky, but nothing good old green stuff cant sort out

**pretre**

xttz wrote:
Really?

Yep, although I'm not going to keep getting into it since this is pretty off topic.

**Captain Fantastic**

Didn't they get a new codex in January of 2012?

I could never get into painting tyranids. I can't stand the flesh tones and the layering the chitin. It was too much work for an army that uses massive broods of termagants.

Hoping carnifexii can be spammed again. I miss 4th edition...

**kjolnir**

rollawaythestone wrote:
I am hoping that it's a 1 and not a 3. Looks like a 1 to me. But I will be crushed if toxin haunts are still 8 ppm. Hoping that adrenal glands are awesome and synergies nicely with their +3 run. Can also hope that the Onslaught power lets things run and assault, unles we get that power some other way.

It's a 3 for Toxin Sacs. The upgrades are listed in ascending order by point cost. Look at the Ripper Swarm entry for comparison wtih the same upgrades.

**rigeld2**

Captain Fantastic wrote:
Didn't they get a new codex in January of 2012?

Nids? 2010.

**Redemption**

Captain Fantastic wrote:
Didn't they get a new codex in January of 2012?

If by 2012 you mean 2010, then yes.

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

Captain Fantastic wrote:
Didn't they get a new codex in January of 2012?

I could never get into painting tyranids. I can't stand the flesh tones and the layering the chitin. It was too much work for an army that uses massive broods of termagants.

Hoping carnifexii can be spammed again. I miss 4th edition...

Check out Phil Kelly's Nids for a quick and good-looking paintjob.

**Davor**

What do people think of Rippers being T5, S5?

Pic is blurry, but looks more like a 5 than a 3.

http://oi41.tinypic.com/30lzb6w.jpg

*edit* took img tag out and put link in.

**BeeCee**

it looks like a 3 to me. looks the same as the hormagaunt Str and T as well.

**Sinful Hero**

Not sure if you're allowed to post stats like that, but it definately looks like the curve of a three. Too offset with the other numbers to be anything else. Kinda hope these leaks are true- even dropping hormies a point(without toxin sacs) makes me happy.

**pretre**

They're generally okay as long as it is a link and not in the dakka gallery or attached.

**Davor**

BeeCee wrote:
it looks like a 3 to me. looks the same as the hormagaunt Str and T as well.

Look at the 3. The 3 is more curved. That is why I thought it was more a 5, like the Ld. I don't believe it's a 5 either, but I don't think it's a 3 since it's not curved.

Oh well, about 21 more sleeps.

**brassangel**

BeeCee wrote:my problem is at 8 ppm with toxin even if scytal are buffed, i have to get them there. sure they might run a little bit faster.

I was hoping to run quite a few of those little buggers again. going to try to remain positive.

The Hormagaunts don't have to change if the rest of the army and army-wide special rules can better support them. It's not about units in a vacuum. They will never be running by themselves, and most of the monsters around them got cheaper (which means more threat saturation).

We want Hormagaunts to be playable, not broken. So far, it looks as though they will be a pinch cheaper, but we don't know what their special rules and biomorphs do. We also don't know what buffs they can get, or what combos will help them out. If GW were to reevaluate every unit in a vacuum and price them as such, the game would be even less balanced than it is now (and the 6th edition books can all play pretty nice against each other).

xttz wrote:
Kirasu wrote:
xttz wrote:
tetrisphreak wrote:
I'm with Sinful Hero - until I see these in a white dwarf surrounded by a photobox and magazine text, It's hard to believe that we're getting identical stats and point costs for all our main troops (Bar termagants).

Why not? The Eldar codex was mostly a copy-pasta job of near-identical units and options with just a few points tweaked from the previous codex. Most of the key changes were in the form of army-wide special rules and improved weapons/wargear.

Also the source for these rules is the same guy providing pics of new units. I don't believe any other rumours about EW and so on, but I doubt these Troop entries are fake.

The big question now is if/how the core rules like biomorphs and weapons have changed.

Yeah not sure where you got that with the Eldar book? Almost every single unit was changed, perhaps not in stats but in wargear, abilities, etc..

Really?

Dire Avengers 4E:
5-10 models in the unit
One may be upgraded to an Exarch with:
>Twin shurikens, or
>Diresword + pistol, or
>Power weapon + shimmershield
May take 2 DA Exarch powers
May take a Wave serpent

Dire Avengers 6E:
5-10 models in the unit
One may be upgraded to an Exarch with:
>Twin shurikens, or
>Diresword + pistol, or
>Power weapon + shimmershield
May take select Exarch powers from the new shared list
May take a Wave serpent

------

Guardians 4E:
10-20 models per unit
Must take weapon platform with one of 5 weapons
May take a wave serpent

Guardians 6E:
10-20 models per unit
May take weapon platform with one of 5 weapons
May take a wave serpent

------

Jetbikes 4E:
3-12 models per unit
Can take a shuricannon for every 3 models

Jetbikes 6E:
3-10 models per unit
Can take a shuricannon for every 3 models

--------

Vyper Squadron 4E:
Must take one of five heavy weapon choices
May replace shuripults with shuricannon
May choose vehicle upgrades

Vyper Squadron 6E:
Must take one of five heavy weapon choices
May replace shuripults with shuricannon
May choose vehicle upgrades

-------

Falcon 4E:
Must take one of five heavy weapon choices
May replace shuripults with shuricannon
May choose vehicle upgrades
Transports 6 models

Falcon 6E:
Must take one of five heavy weapon choices
May replace shuripults with shuricannon
May choose vehicle upgrades
Transports 6 models

The vast majority of stat changes in the Eldar book were applied across the board to non-Aspect units (BS4 / I5) - there was very little tweaking of specific unit statlines.

This comparison is very similar to what we're seeing for Nids right now... some points reductions/tweaks but very similar unit entries overall. The army list generally remained the same - there were no huge surprises like Guardians with multiple Bright Lance platforms or Wave Serpents with 5 HP. Hell, everyone was screaming that Serpents were way overcosted when that unit entry leaked (but before we saw Serpent Shield).
For Eldar, the big changes were in the armywide rules: Battle Focus, Shuriken weapons, Scatter Lasers, a centralised Exarch powers list, and generally stuff that isn't obvious from the main army list.

I have no doubt Nids will see the biggest shifts in many of the rules they share between units, and until they're out and people have the whole picture, they're going to continue crying over how terrible the new codex is going to be. Just like they did about Eldar 6 months ago.

Excellent post! Even once we have the codex in hand, it's going to take a lot of playing and tinkering to really get a feel for what's good.

Captain Fantastic wrote:Didn't they get a new codex in January of 2012?

I could never get into painting tyranids. I can't stand the flesh tones and the layering the chitin. It was too much work for an army that uses massive broods of termagants.

Hoping carnifexii can be spammed again. I miss 4th edition...

Tyranids got one in 2010, and it was terrible. Easily the worst of 5th edition.

Don't know why it matters that you can't paint them. Anyone can paint anything with practice.

4th edition was awful. Tyranids were a mono-build army that didn't look "Tyranid" at all. Once the Eldar and Orks codices came out, Tyranids were completely useless in 4th and 5th edition, and made even worse by their 5th edition codex.

**Terror from the Deep**

Ripper swarms can deep strike now? Interesting

**rigeld2**

Terror from the Deep wrote:
Ripper swarms can deep strike now? Interesting

They can currently. Tunnel Swarm gives the Deep Strike rule and costs exactly what it does in that image.

**rollawaythestone**

Rippers can currently Deep Strike. Not that I blame you for not bothering to read the Ripper Swarm rules.

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

Since Hormagaunts already have fleet, perhaps adrenal glands give Furious Charge and Rage now???

**DO IT TO IT**

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Since Hormagaunts already have fleet, perhaps adrenal glands give Furious Charge and Rage now???

If you assume that Feed does something different now.

**Eyjio**

Davor wrote:
What do people think of Rippers being T5, S5?

Pic is blurry, but looks more like a 5 than a 3.

http://oi41.tinypic.com/30lzb6w.jpg

*edit* took img tag out and put link in.

Definitely a 3. If they were T5 S5, that'd be insane. 3 T5 wounds for 13 points would be amazing and actually worth the points for a unit which doesn't score but occupies troop slots. Maybe not even too much, would make them a little more durable than tactical marines yet they'd still have no guns and only be good in assault. Never happen though, GW apparently hates selling models other than large kits now, even though lots of infantry would be more profitable.

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

DO IT TO IT wrote:
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Since Hormagaunts already have fleet, perhaps adrenal glands give Furious Charge and Rage now???

If you assume that Feed does something different now.

Oh I have no doubt it will. Being out of Synapse range is supposed to be bad for Nids, not making them uber killers.