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Tyranids are truly unique in that regard, and I hope they stay that way. .

Yup. Tyranids are the only species in the Milky Way that actually took the giant leap and travelled from another galaxy to ours. So exciting. So mysterious. Too bad Google didn't exist when the 'budding scientists' at GW wrote this crap. If you can travel through the Milky Way you can travel to the nearest galaxies, and quite possibly to Andromeda too. I never understood why Eldar or Necrons don't travel to other galaxies ("everyone is fighting in this gak hole, let's bail out") or why more races don't originate from there, but I guess the '40K galaxy' is in the 'earth is flat and if you go to the edge you'll fall off and die' phase, where nothing outside it can possibly exist. Except Tyranids of course. They're special.

No need to be so cynical about it (said me, of all people). The "Extragalactic Threat" is a pretty normal sci-fi trope, and in 40K that trope exists with the Tyranids. Eldar get the "Fallen Super-Race" trope and Necrons get the "Ancient Superior Race" trope. They can't all have everything.

 Therion wrote:

Tyranids are truly unique in that regard, and I hope they stay that way. .

Yup. Tyranids are the only species in the Milky Way that actually took the giant leap and travelled from another galaxy to ours. Too bad Google didn't exist when the 'budding scientists' at GW wrote this crap. If you can travel through the Milky Way you can travel to the nearest galaxies, and quite possibly to Andromeda too. I never understood why Eldar or Necrons don't travel to other galaxies ("everyone is fighting in this gak hole, let's bail out") or why more races don't originate from there, but I guess the '40K galaxy' is in the 'earth is flat and if you go to the edge you'll fall off and die' phase, where nothing outside it can possibly exist. Except Tyranids of course. They're special.

...Are you serious? The milky way is some 100,000 light years in diameter. The closet large galaxy (Andromeda) is some 250 million light years away. Thats some 2,500 times greater than the diameter of the milky way.

Looks like you are the one who should have googled...

 Therion wrote:

Tyranids are truly unique in that regard, and I hope they stay that way. .

Yup. Tyranids are the only species in the Milky Way that actually took the giant leap and travelled from another galaxy to ours. So exciting. So mysterious. Too bad Google didn't exist when the 'budding scientists' at GW wrote this crap. If you can travel through the Milky Way you can travel to the nearest galaxies, and quite possibly to Andromeda too. I never understood why Eldar or Necrons don't travel to other galaxies ("everyone is fighting in this gak hole, let's bail out") or why more races don't originate from there, but I guess the '40K galaxy' is in the 'earth is flat and if you go to the edge you'll fall off and die' phase, where nothing outside it can possibly exist. Except Tyranids of course. They're special.

And Orks .

As for the Eldar, the Webway seems to be limited to this galaxy.
And for the Crons, they were just retconned to the Webway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Therion wrote:

Tyranids are truly unique in that regard, and I hope they stay that way. .

Yup. Tyranids are the only species in the Milky Way that actually took the giant leap and travelled from another galaxy to ours. Too bad Google didn't exist when the 'budding scientists' at GW wrote this crap. If you can travel through the Milky Way you can travel to the nearest galaxies, and quite possibly to Andromeda too. I never understood why Eldar or Necrons don't travel to other galaxies ("everyone is fighting in this gak hole, let's bail out") or why more races don't originate from there, but I guess the '40K galaxy' is in the 'earth is flat and if you go to the edge you'll fall off and die' phase, where nothing outside it can possibly exist. Except Tyranids of course. They're special.

...Are you serious? The milky way is some 100,000 light years in diameter. The closet large galaxy (Andromeda) is some 250 million light years away. Thats some 2,500 times greater than the diameter of the milky way.

Looks like you are the one who should have googled...

Wrong, it is at 2,5 million light years.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
google better.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Therion wrote:

Tyranids are truly unique in that regard, and I hope they stay that way. .

Yup. Tyranids are the only species in the Milky Way that actually took the giant leap and travelled from another galaxy to ours. Too bad Google didn't exist when the 'budding scientists' at GW wrote this crap. If you can travel through the Milky Way you can travel to the nearest galaxies, and quite possibly to Andromeda too. I never understood why Eldar or Necrons don't travel to other galaxies ("everyone is fighting in this gak hole, let's bail out") or why more races don't originate from there, but I guess the '40K galaxy' is in the 'earth is flat and if you go to the edge you'll fall off and die' phase, where nothing outside it can possibly exist. Except Tyranids of course. They're special.

...Are you serious? The milky way is some 100,000 light years in diameter. The closet large galaxy (Andromeda) is some 250 million light years away. Thats some 2,500 times greater than the diameter of the milky way.

Looks like you are the one who should have googled...

Andromeda isn't the closest galaxy -- Not by a long shot. So go and launch that Google boy. Besides, even if it was, you have the technology to go 150K light years, you'll have the technology to go 150M light years. It'll just take longer, depending on what kind of sci-fi wormhole junk drives you're using. As far as I know neither the Eldar nor Necrons die of age so it's not like they couldn't have taken a nap and bailed out. To me the problem is why you'd take that trip, and which direction you should go, since you'll find a galaxy and billions of stars no matter which vector you take

Wrong, it is at 2,5 million light years.

Cheers. The distance isn't a staggering amount more than the diameter of the Milky Way. It's a lot more, but even us tiny earthlings should be able to comprehend that number still.

They may not have the resources, for one. They may not be able to bring the ability to terraform (or whatever equivalent) with them if they do. Also, most races are going to fight for their homeland, as it were, and are connected to each other through some link in the 40k past. Going from one galaxy to another is a much more colossal task than traveling in the one you come from. Plus, there may not be anything for them once they get there. It's not like a galaxy is small either. It certainly makes the fluff more believable than Warmachine or Warhammer Fantasy where every faction is somehow equally in control of, and fighting over one chunk of land. It probably takes a tremendous amount of resources and technology (to function perfectly, mind you) to travel from one part of the galaxy to another, let alone to another galaxy more than a hundred times that distance away. All while not knowing what's between here and there, on top of it. We toss around the numbers as if they are minimal, but our "puny brains" probably couldn't comprehend it.

Aren't the means of wormhole space travel limited to known destinations for most races in the 40k universe? The ships are also super ancient, so if anything happens to them in the void between galaxies, they are screwed for like...ever. At least in this galaxy they can wind up near some place where they may be able to repair and refuel diplomatically.

As an aside: If I'm not mistaken, the Silent King (who has no rules, for some reason) did travel outside the galaxy, saw the Tyranids, wet himself, and then returned to wake up his old friends. So it is possible for some I guess.

No one knows where the Tyranids come from, or how far they are spread out. That's a great story. They didn't do it to be lazy, or because they didn't hit a deadline. It's just better this way and unique to Tyranids. GW has had plenty of opportunities to rewrite the fluff (which they have been known to do) since the advent of Google. Instead, they keep it as interesting as it is uncertain.

I don't know what part of that idea pissed you off out of nowhere, Therion, but you really didn't present anything sensible. You lamely attacked a single line of my post as if I or GW did something to you by keeping the Tyranids interesting and semi-mysterious instead of copy+pasting the same Starcraft fluff (re: terrible) used in every other science fiction saga.

As I've said before, what they have going is a far better fluff piece than saying the Hive Mind is some C'Tan, or lost Chaos deity, or an Eldar consciousness that spawned when Eldar had an eating disorder, or a disgruntled Primarch that quietly snuck away, or the Emperor's neglected biology experiment, or the manifest prophecy of the Old Ones...

Allowing the Tyranids to be the one disconnected species makes them an ever-present threat to everyone. Whereas Chaos is only capable of corrupting the weak, and Necrons need souls/hosts, and Eldar rely on experience and stealth, and Orks need war, and Tau need campaigns to take place elsewhere so they can sneakily assimilate a system - but all races can interact diplomatically with each other - Tyranids don't care. Or rather, they have no knowledge of such things, or a desire to obtain it.

It's nice to see that GW has created a relatively unique race in that way, even if some of the aesthetics are borrowed designs (as are all). Once again, it's also nice that we didn't just get an army of wasps and slugs. Tyranids are becoming more and more unique, and their being truly the most alien is a part of that.

You clearly misunderstood. I don't consider the Tyranids lame. They're one of the good ones, in comparison. What they are not however is in any way shape or form original. Very few things (if any) in 40K is, contrary to popular belief.

If you're curious, I think the most interesting species in the 40K background is the Old Ones who simply left (or disappeared, whatever) after dropping random DNA here and there. Why wouldn't you leave if every star system is an extinction level warzone? My whole point, which you can in no way deny, is that GW's basic view on the 40K universe is intensely myopic and therefore doesn't reflect the real universe much or at all. The distances don't make any sense and the 'whatever device' explanations preventing intergalactic travel aren't believable. It wouldn't be so misleading and annoying if they didn't use real names like Terra and the Milky Way.

Your examples about the junk they wrote about the other races are good, and I agree. Even the entire Horus Heresy which is somehow supposed to be GW's franchise defining story is a bunch of childish garbage -- And by that I don't mean the specific writing of Dan Abnett or whoever -- I mean the actual story about a band of brothers going emo because daddy didn't give them enough attention and then going on a genocidal rampage bent on wiping their own species out. Even the bottomline of that story falls flat since there's an endless amount of galaxies out there -- You're not the master of the universe if you control this galaxy or wipe out all life here. I can't see why the Milky Way would even be very important in the grand scheme of things.

Feel free to get back on the topic of Tyranid rumours anytime you want guys. I won't derail it further.

 Therion wrote:
You clearly misunderstood. I don't consider the Tyranids lame. They're one of the good ones, in comparison. What they are not however is in any way shape or form original. Very few things (if any) in 40K is, contrary to popular belief.

No, I didn't misunderstand. Clearly or otherwise. Nothing in science fiction/fantasy is original. Nothing. It all comes from something inspired, so as an argument...well, it isn't an argument.

Despite starting from borrowed elements (as everything in sci-fi is), Tyranids are becoming more and more distinctly their own, however. That's a fact.

 Therion wrote:
If you're curious,

I wasn't, but...

 Therion wrote:
I think the most interesting species in the 40K background is the Old Ones who simply left (or disappeared, whatever). Why wouldn't you leave if every star system is an extinction level warzone? My whole point, which you can in no way deny, is that GW's basic view on the 40K universe is intensely myopic and therefore doesn't reflect the real universe much or at all. The distances don't make any sense and the 'whatever device' explanations preventing intergalactic travel aren't believable. It wouldn't be so misleading and annoying if they didn't use real names like Terra and the Milky Way.

So the complaint is how unrealistic it is, yet something more unrealistic would have made it better? The unbelievable means of travel would make more sense if longer distances were utilized?

Even the Old Ones are shrouded in mystery because we have no idea what the hell they are supposed to be. Tyranids remaining shrouded as a present story line (the Old Ones being no more, essentially), but completely alien to the other races is fascinating. What I'm saying is that it would be ULTRA-lame if it turns out the Hive Mind is just the Old Ones sending Tyranids from far away because they couldn't handle hanging out here anymore. If they wanted to flee the galaxy because they hated what it had become, why bother sending something back? Enjoy playing in your new galaxy. Clearly the races occupying the Milky Way are keeping each other busy enough.

 Therion wrote:
Your examples about the junk they wrote about the other races are good, and I agree. Even the entire Horus Heresy which is somehow supposed to be GW's franchise defining story is a bunch of childish garbage -- And by that I don't mean the specific writing of Dan Abnett or whoever -- I mean the actual story about a band of brothers going emo because daddy didn't give them enough attention and then going on a genocidal rampage bent on wiping their own species out. Even the bottomline of that story falls flat since there's an endless amount of galaxies out there -- You're not the master of the universe if you control this galaxy or wipe out all life here. I can't see why the Milky Way would even be very important in the grand scheme of things.

As for "junk" and "childish garbage," that's your opinion. Really what you think of the Horus Heresy has no bearing on this discussion. I haven't gotten much out of the story, personally, but it's starting to resonate outside the realm of 40k players. There are people who haven't played the game, and probably never will, who buy Black Library novels.

The 40k universe went from being a bunch of borrowed sci-fi ideas (in general to get a sci-fi table top game going), to something all it's own. Sure, many of the borrowed elements remain - as a means of connecting to the lowest common denominator - but the more GW fleshes it out, the more interesting in becomes.

Tyranids being the most alien, and completely disconnected is one that needs to remain; otherwise it just becomes another stupid Zerg/Protoss, or Forerunner/Covenant type story.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On topic: I hope Spore Mines will be useful.

So the complaint is how unrealistic it is, yet something more unrealistic would have made it better? The unbelievable means of travel would make more sense if longer distances were utilized?

You seem to have decided to argue this subject and started with a couple of strawmen, so either make a new thread, stop, or just be honest and say you want this thread locked. I can oblige.

It's called suspension of disbelief. I'll go along with near instantaneous space travel and psykers. I'll start having problems when GW tries to make it seem like they're seriously talking about astronomy when they're getting even the most basic concepts wrong.

Tyranids being the most alien, and completely disconnected is one that needs to remain; otherwise it just becomes another stupid Starcraft type story.

How exactly are Tyranids the most alien? Tyranids aren't very far removed from something you find in the animal kingdom. Just because they float in space doesn't make them most alien but I guess you're entitled to your opinion. To me the most alien are immortal energy beings who feed on stars for millions of years and only ever became aware of small biological entities after getting captured by a particularly advanced one, but to each their own.

That's the third time you mention Starcraft in this thread. I guess you don't like the Zerg very much.

 Therion wrote:

Tyranids are truly unique in that regard, and I hope they stay that way. .

Yup. Tyranids are the only species in the Milky Way that actually took the giant leap and travelled from another galaxy to ours. So exciting. So mysterious. Too bad Google didn't exist when the 'budding scientists' at GW wrote this crap. If you can travel through the Milky Way you can travel to the nearest galaxies, and quite possibly to Andromeda too. I never understood why Eldar or Necrons don't travel to other galaxies ("everyone is fighting in this gak hole, let's bail out") or why more races don't originate from there, but I guess the '40K galaxy' is in the 'earth is flat and if you go to the edge you'll fall off and die' phase, where nothing outside it can possibly exist. Except Tyranids of course. They're special.

Probably because Tyranids are the only race who could organize and endure a "generation fleet" style sub-FTL emigration from one galaxy to another. Everybody else would get bored and fractious on the way.

 Therion wrote:

So the complaint is how unrealistic it is, yet something more unrealistic would have made it better? The unbelievable means of travel would make more sense if longer distances were utilized?

You seem to have decided to argue this subject and started with a couple of strawmen, so either make a new thread, stop, or just be honest and say you want this thread locked. I can oblige.

It's called suspension of disbelief. I'll go along with near instantaneous space travel and psykers. I'll start having problems when GW tries to make it seem like they're seriously talking about astronomy when they're getting even the most basic concepts wrong.

Tyranids being the most alien, and completely disconnected is one that needs to remain; otherwise it just becomes another stupid Starcraft type story.

How exactly are Tyranids the most alien? Tyranids aren't very far removed from something you find in the animal kingdom. Just because they float in space doesn't make them most alien but I guess you're entitled to your opinion. To me the most alien are immortal energy beings who feed on stars for millions of years and only ever became aware of small biological entities after getting captured by a particularly advanced one, but to each their own.

That's the third time you mention Starcraft in this thread. I guess you don't like the Zerg very much.

Tyranids are the most alien because they have no society, culture, individuality or personality. They are "alien" merely through the absence of assigned, human-like traits.

C'Tan may be made out of energy and eat stars, but they still act like humans a lot of the time. Same thing for Daemons, Chaos gods, Eldar, and most of the other "eldritch" and "fey" races in the 40K setting. They are only "alien" from a superficial physical standpoint -- they still act in ways that are meaningful to human experience. I can imagine what it feels like to be a Dark Eldar pirate or a Bloodthirster, but it's tough to put myself in the mindset of a Termagant.

To be fair, it's hard to imagine yourself as a broken, pseudo-human robot, as well. But it's easy to imagine yourself as a human mind in a robotic body, so the latest incarnation of Necron fluff dropped them to #2 most alien behind the Tyranids, in my opinion.

I completely agree with you that Tyranids aren't particularly alien from a biological standpoint, and your comparison to examples from the animal kingdom. But that's not what makes them the most alien race in 40K (which is relative, of course; they're still far less alien than some of the races you can find in the hard sci-fi genre without looking too hard).

You guys know that comparing the Tyranids to the animal kingdom is like comparing the US military to a bunch of cavemen with sticks and stones right?

stupid Zerg/Protoss, or Forerunner/Covenant type story.

I understand that you hate SC lore, but how do the Forerunner/Covenant fit in all this?

My two favorite armies are Tyranid and Imperial Guard. Give me the Gene stealer cult I so desperately want.

 Tyran wrote:
You guys know that comparing the Tyranids to the animal kingdom is like comparing the US military to a bunch of cavemen with sticks and stones right?

Which, I would argue, is a valid comparison to make. They're both just throwing sharp, fast stuff with malicious intent, only the US military's stuff is a lot sharper and a lot faster.

Can we get back to the actual Tyranid release? Enough with the fluff argument. Nobody wants this thread to get locked like the other one.

Also, here's a pic of the entire codex cover: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-W4Lv2FML-KU/UqnWk91NyRI/AAAAAAAABm0/-Pgl0X67alY/s1600/994079_10101506489395355_299055732_n.jpg

I'm still wracking my brain trying to figure out what scything talons, toxin sacs, and adrenal glands will do in the new book.

Take the fluff discussion to the appropriate forum and stay OT---thanks.

Ryan

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I'm still wracking my brain trying to figure out what scything talons, toxin sacs, and adrenal glands will do in the new book.

My guesses (nothing new here I'm afraid):

Scything Talons: +1 attack per pair
Toxin Sacs: Confer Poison (4+) to both close combat and shooting attacks made by the model
Adrenal Glands: Confer Fleet and Furious Charge. If the model already has the Fleet special rule, (X undetermined bonus). Hope it's run + charge in the same turn!

 AgeOfEgos wrote:
Take the fluff discussion to the appropriate forum and stay OT---thanks.

Ryan

To be fair, all of that fluff discussion spiraled off of a rumour about new fluff in the codex. There are more than just rules in there, y'know!

Altruizine wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I'm still wracking my brain trying to figure out what scything talons, toxin sacs, and adrenal glands will do in the new book.

My guesses (nothing new here I'm afraid):

Scything Talons: +1 attack per pair
Toxin Sacs: Confer Poison (4+) to both close combat and shooting attacks made by the model
Adrenal Glands: Confer Fleet and Furious Charge. If the model already has the Fleet special rule, (X undetermined bonus). Hope it's run + charge in the same turn!

If scything talons changed from reroll 1's to hit in melee, and all misses when you have 2 pairs to +1 attack....well....trygons base stats would have to be tweaked, and it would likely result in a massive nerf for them (either going to base 4 attack with 2 sets, getting them back to 6 attacks, but losing the rerolls, or going up to 8 attacks with no rerolls, which is a lateral move). It might also make some "interesting" creature possibilities with 6 attack tyrants and 4 attack tyrant guard. At the very least it would explain the points increase on genestealers.

Toxin-sacs won't change. They can't affect ranged units, it would be extremely over powered. Imagine dev gaunts with toxins sacs provided by a tervigon, they'd be the best shooting unit in the game point for point. (8 each, 3 S4 attack that always wound on a 4+).

Adrenal has to be changing. I think you've got the main measure of it as well.

 Necro wrote:
My two favorite armies are Tyranid and Imperial Guard. Give me the Gene stealer cult I so desperately want.

I'd echo that, but with a side of "Tyranids + Guard Allies =/= Genestealer Cult".

If the swarmlord gets nerfed at all, ill cry

I... may be unique in this regard, but my favorite version of the Tyranid Warrior was the one in Space Crusade.

The detailing was not as sharp, and they had buck teeth, but I just liked them better.... Maybe it was the fact that you could see their internal organs?

But then I also liked the Chaos Dreadnaught in the game....

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
I... may be unique in this regard, but my favorite version of the Tyranid Warrior was the one in Space Crusade.

You aren't alone... but the two of us are.

It looks like I was wrong about the stat line leaks. This concerns me about state of our troop choices. That was a weak point in the last codex and all the bells and whistles of new MCs is not going to change that (unless they have a bunch of aura buffs).

Honestly I think what is going to make or break this codex is not going to be new models (which look good) but army wide rules and biomorphs. I suspect toxin sacs will remain the same and so will scything talons (though I think they may make 2 CCW=+1 attacks).

As for adrenal glands, shadow in the warp, and synapse. I have no idea what they are going to do. But I think it is going to have to be something that really bolsters the Troop choices, or the nids are going to continue to struggle.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
I... may be unique in this regard, but my favorite version of the Tyranid Warrior was the one in Space Crusade.

You aren't alone... but the two of us are.

Make that three... Actually my fave is the metal first edition version, but they are hard to come by so I make do.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
I... may be unique in this regard, but my favorite version of the Tyranid Warrior was the one in Space Crusade.

The detailing was not as sharp, and they had buck teeth, but I just liked them better.... Maybe it was the fact that you could see their internal organs?

But then I also liked the Chaos Dreadnaught in the game....

The Auld Grump

I have 3 Tyranid Primes built from Space Crusade Warriors and another from the old pewter warrior kit.
I love em.

those lashwhips are pimp.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
I... may be unique in this regard, but my favorite version of the Tyranid Warrior was the one in Space Crusade.

You aren't alone... but the two of us are.

I didn't mind the concept of them - they looked far more like 'eaders' than the current Warriors, but the plastic sculpts were atrocious (to be fair, I know they dated back to Advanced Space Crusade). The metals were nice though.

But I prefer the new Warriors, which are some of my favorite sculpts ever.

I think I'm one of the few that liked the 2nd Edition metal warriors. Not necessarily like them the best, but I still liked them, lol.

They were pretty fun. I managed to pick up a bunch of them still in the blisters from Chaos Orc (.com... I guess?) to go with the ones I originally bought when I was a kid.

I still remember buying the "Tyranid Army" box back in 2nd Ed, only they didn't have the box, so they just gave me everything that was in the box. The guy grabbing the blisters grabbed a bunch of Hormagaunt blisters, but only one of them was Hormagaunts. The rest were all Tyranid Warriors. Didn't even realise until I got home and found way more than I originally thought I had.

I looked at the scan of the hormagaunt entry, and does it look like they're init 5 and move through cover?