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 Byte wrote:

Noctem wrote:
Hmm, now that pre-orders are up, I don't know what I should get!

I know the codex isn't out so there's no way to know what's the best yet but:

I have no Tyranids yet, so i'm starting from scratch...

Are Hormagaunts really not going to be viable even with them being cheaper? I hate the Termagant model, but if they are really that much better, maybe I'll skip the Swarm Box and just buy a brood or two of Termagants.

For now I'm buying:

Hive Tyrant
Haruspex/Exocrine
Harpy/Crone
Carnifex Brood
two broods of either Horma's or Terma's

Anything to add or not buy?

Sorry if this is too off topic for the thread, I can post this in tactics heh

Shouldn't we wait for the codex to give advice?

Hence what I said about the codex not being out yet =P was just asking from what we know about the new rules from leaks and what may be still good even with a new codex

 brassangel wrote:

BeeCee wrote:
I don't understand why people are saying hormagaunts are still trash. They are 1 pt cheaper, they now run d6+3 instead of 3d6 take the highest. You can actually use fleet for something to reroll your run distance on the first turn.

so you are looking at the ability to force an opponent to choose to either shoot the hormagaunts that are bearing down at a pretty fast rate or your second line of tough guy MC's. if they choose to shoot up the hormagaunts your MC linebreakers are able to move that much closer unmolested.

I am thinking 3x20 hormagaunts will provide a nice base to the swarm at only 300 pts total. Sure it was tough to pay more for toxin but I think naked hormagaunts definitely have a place on the table.

Don't go talking all logical now. People are supposed to follow the internet groupthink and assume everything is bad if it doesn't have 1st turn charge with Assault Grenades at Initiative 9 and an armor save of 2+++/1+++++++ Furious Charge, poison, rending and FNP for 2 points apiece.

Yes, this is why Hormagaunts aren't popular. No matter how good they get we will always hate em because they don't have all that ridiculous crap you just mentioned. The Hormagants are an amazing troop choice, unfortunately we are just never satisfied with them. As you said, the entire fanbase absolutely hates competitive logic, right ?

Hmmm or maybe, just maybe, it's because you have just taken a troop that costs MORE points per naked model than a Termagant squad, to lose the str4 ap5 RANGED attack in favour of a MELEE ranged str3 attack, not unlocking Tervigons as troop choices. Then you can factor in the almost mandatory upgrade costs.

Oh wow I almost forgot, Horm's get to run up to 3" more. But hey, Termagants get to shoot 12. They also unlock (but do not force you to purchase) your undeniably best troop in the game, the Tervigon. Even without the Terv you can still grab AG+TS for half the price that it costs Hormagants to take them. But why would you? You wouldn't, because Termies are a unit that does not even require these upgrades, but on Hormagants they are pretty much an into include. And any points you do want to spend upgrading Termis, well they have an even better option, you can give them all Devourers and pay 2 ppm less than a Hormagaunt squad with both upgrades, except you have as many attacks per shooting phase as they have on the charge. And at the same strength. And at 18" range. And gives them a -1 on morale checks. And then you can charge afterwards. And you still have a cheap as chips to buy both upgrades if you took a Tervigon, 20 points for a bubble of TS+AG which affects the entirety of all Termagant units/spawns around it, as opposed to paying 120 points for AG+TS on a 30 man Hormagaunt squad. Said Tervigon is also a scoring unit just by picking Termagants as your troop choice. These are the bonuses that you trade away for adding 3" run speed to a single dice roll (as opposed to taking the highest of 3). Hormagaunts are definitely our second best choice, but if there was ever a unit that is completely outclassed in every possible manner.....




But forget all those actual statistics, they're probably not important. That's just the "groupthink" trying to manipulate your mind with their lies and foolish thoughts of viable troop options. You go out there and have fun being an individual, 3" faster each turn.

The Exocrine is Heavy Support in their WD battle report though, so I only expect the Haruspex to be in Elites.

The most interesting part of the pre-orders going up is by far the fact that the Haruspex/Exocrine is confirmed in the Elite slot. Here's hoping they come with some pretty nifty rules because it'd give me great pleasure to take new models over the auto-take Hive Guard I've been using since what feels like the dawn of time. It'd be nice to have another viable option in the Elite slot for once! We'll have to wait and see whether their rules and points cost vs the Hive Guard make them worth taking at all though...

Time for a model clearout...!

 brassangel wrote:
I also don't get why people are saying they still want to buy (with points) the Mycetic Spore for Deep Striking even if there won't be a model required. Why then would you need to buy a Spore and not just pay points for a unit to have Deep Strike? The Spore doesn't even need to be a part of the equation.

Umm, because there is no option for buying Deep Strike? Do you see that on any of the purchasable upgrades for the leaked troops all once had the option to buy spores?

Or how bout the fact that the spore doubles your accuracy of the deep strike, critical for a lot of the units it was used in conjunction with? And it also takes away the risk of a deep strike mishap.

TERRIBLY CHALLENGING THING FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND I KNOW, but maybe just stop for a second and think about why people might still want to keep this unit in the codex before making such an ignorant statement suggesting that people shouldn't be unhappy that our options are being taken away from us, for no other reason than GW didn't think the models would sell as well as a new super flying monstrous uber dragon.

Also add to all this the fact that people have spent time money and effort, converting building painting and acquiring their own models to represent the units, on GW's encouragement to do so. You really don't have a foot to stand on here.

 brassangel wrote:

BeeCee wrote:
And as we've seen with the ripper swarm codex entry they can purchase the ability to deep strike.

I do really feel for the guy who has 20 devilgaunts glued and painted though if the deep strike option is indeed removed for termagants. there is just too much ground to cover to pay 8pts for a devil gaunt with T3 and a 6+ save.

but... we haven't seen how trygon tunnels work now or even the lictor pheromone trail etc... there might be some gems in there.

Or we just scuttle them around behind the 43 MC's we can field in every slot of the FO chart now.

Now here's something I can't understand. Why do people think with this mentality, that because there is more options for different MC's to choose, that it will mean there is more MC's on the field. WE HAVE A POINTS LIMIT. The monobuild was already literally nothing but Monstrous Creatures + 3man HG or Zoanthrope squads (which block equal or more vision than a MC), and the default 2x squads of 10 naked termagant. Not devil gaunts. To have more MC's on the field we have to be able to take out non-monstrous units to do this. But now we have to take triple as much as infantry per Tervigon. What has changed to make you think we will be able to take Devourers on our Termagaunts and hide them with so much more ease than before? Especially since there is triple as many of them now? What on earth makes you think that more FOC options means there is going to be more room for monstrous creatures? We might be able to pack 1 or 2 more in by using the cheap cost of Carnifexes to achieve this, but just have new big bugs in the dex or looking pretty on the side of the table does not actually make your 1500 pt army have extra MC's in it, believe it or not.

Shuppet, never has a nail been more firmly hit on the head!

 Fafnir wrote:
Good god, those prices are insane.

IMO actually not too bad. Harpy is hugely overpriced but so are all flyers from other armies. The Swarm looks like a decent way to start a Tyranid horde army, new Gaunt boxes are marginally cheaper per model than the old ones, and Carnifex Brood also provides small saving.

@Shuppet - Have an exalt for practically the same way of thinking as me I have a tyranid army which has been shelved not because of its lack of power, but because it's the same build over and over. And from what we can glean from the spoilers we've been given - that won't change much. GW just added new components to the monobuild which is "statistically best". It just means I'll be using one less tervigon and more crones and haruspices / exocrines / carnifices.

And here I was hoping that a new codex will bring a Tau level of customisable goodness. My final judgment on the dex will of course be made when the dex arrives, but heck if I'm not a bit disappointed by the initial waves its been making.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
I also don't get why people are saying they still want to buy (with points) the Mycetic Spore for Deep Striking even if there won't be a model required. Why then would you need to buy a Spore and not just pay points for a unit to have Deep Strike? The Spore doesn't even need to be a part of the equation.

Umm, because there is no option for buying Deep Strike? Do you see that on any of the purchasable upgrades for the leaked troops all once had the option to buy spores?

Or how bout the fact that the spore doubles your accuracy of the deep strike, critical for a lot of the units it was used in conjunction with? And it also takes away the risk of a deep strike mishap.

TERRIBLY CHALLENGING THING FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND I KNOW, but maybe just stop for a second and think about why people might still want to keep this unit in the codex before making such an ignorant statement suggesting that people shouldn't be unhappy that our options are being taken away from us, for no other reason than GW didn't think the models would sell as well as a new super flying monstrous uber dragon.

Also add to all this the fact that people have spent time money and effort, converting building painting and acquiring their own models to represent the units, on GW's encouragement to do so. You really don't have a foot to stand on here.

 brassangel wrote:

BeeCee wrote:
And as we've seen with the ripper swarm codex entry they can purchase the ability to deep strike.

I do really feel for the guy who has 20 devilgaunts glued and painted though if the deep strike option is indeed removed for termagants. there is just too much ground to cover to pay 8pts for a devil gaunt with T3 and a 6+ save.

but... we haven't seen how trygon tunnels work now or even the lictor pheromone trail etc... there might be some gems in there.

Or we just scuttle them around behind the 43 MC's we can field in every slot of the FO chart now.

Now here's something I can't understand. Why do people think with this mentality, that because there is more options for different MC's to choose, that it will mean there is more MC's on the field. WE HAVE A POINTS LIMIT. The monobuild was already literally nothing but Monstrous Creatures + 3man HG or Zoanthrope squads (which block equal or more vision than a MC), and the default 2x squads of 10 naked termagant. Not devil gaunts. To have more MC's on the field we have to be able to take out non-monstrous units to do this. But now we have to take triple as much as infantry per Tervigon. What has changed to make you think we will be able to take Devourers on our Termagaunts and hide them with so much more ease than before? Especially since there is triple as many of them now? What on earth makes you think that more FOC options means there is going to be more room for monstrous creatures? We might be able to pack 1 or 2 more in by using the cheap cost of Carnifexes to achieve this, but just have new big bugs in the dex or looking pretty on the side of the table does not actually make your 1500 pt army have extra MC's in it, believe it or not.

Maybe he's referring to the fact that almost every MC got cheaper, some significantly so, in fact the only one I can think of that didn't get a points reduction of at least 10pts is the Tervigon, which received a well-deserved points increase.

That and the fact that Termagants and Hormagaunts got cheaper by a point each too. My 1500pt list now has ~240pts spare, enough for (according to the points in the WD) two more barebones Carnifexes, or an Exocrine, or a Hive Crone plus change etc etc etc.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Umm, because there is no option for buying Deep Strike? Do you see that on any of the purchasable upgrades for the leaked troops all once had the option to buy spores?
.

What Shuppet said.

We have lost half our army - zoeys, our doom, the dakkafexes, the occasional devilgants, all of them in mycetic spores.

We'll still have fun, hopefully convert to a flying circus, maybe with a couple Crones filling in all the gaps, and there might well be some great other options which will be revealed with the full codex. But convincing ourselves this is all Great NEws right now, when there is actually no Great News apart from some cool new models, is deluding yourself.

AS I said, we're pretty competitive rather than super-competive, and will have fun trying out new builds, but I'd rather see reality for what it is.

Farewell. You served us well and we will miss you.

Noctem wrote:

 Byte wrote:

Noctem wrote:
Hmm, now that pre-orders are up, I don't know what I should get!

I know the codex isn't out so there's no way to know what's the best yet but:

I have no Tyranids yet, so i'm starting from scratch...

Are Hormagaunts really not going to be viable even with them being cheaper? I hate the Termagant model, but if they are really that much better, maybe I'll skip the Swarm Box and just buy a brood or two of Termagants.

For now I'm buying:

Hive Tyrant
Haruspex/Exocrine
Harpy/Crone
Carnifex Brood
two broods of either Horma's or Terma's

Anything to add or not buy?

Sorry if this is too off topic for the thread, I can post this in tactics heh

Shouldn't we wait for the codex to give advice?

Hence what I said about the codex not being out yet =P was just asking from what we know about the new rules from leaks and what may be still good even with a new codex

Please ask that in the discussion forum. It's not news or rumors.

With the ymgarl fluff being in the genestealer army entry that could indicate they are no longer an option in the codex

stonehorse wrote:Anyone else think that a Bonesword & Lashwhip will count as a set of paired weapons?

Would be useful on Hive Tyrants to help get an extra attack if they take Scything Talons.

I can't see why it wouldn't, LS & BS as a pair are the norm for a Hive Tyrant. In fact it would be quite disappointing if they didn't get the additional atk. 4 atks just doesn't seem like enough sometimes.

Altruizine wrote:

rollawaythestone wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 Disturb3d wrote:
Boneswords are sadly now Ap 3 Str User with to wounds on 6s causing instant death.

Well dual bones word and rending claws with toxin could be a fantastic loadout

Yeah, they would get Rending, +1 attack for having two melee biomorphs, and Life Drain. Alongside poison. That's a nasty melee unit.

"If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows - he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons. However, it's worth remembering that if a model has two or more Melee weapons he gains +1 Attack in close combat."
- BRB, page 51

We need to start freaking out about this!

J/K... mostly. Let's just keep our talons crossed that they learned their lesson and did the reasonable thing, and presented a clear exemption for Tyranid CCW pairings from the normal melee weapon rules.

I thought we were exempt from that rule already? Scything Talons + Rending Claws? New codex, new rules i know.
Hopefully it doesn't mean Warriors need to take 2 sets of Rending Claws to get +1 atk and rending.

brassangel wrote:I don't understand why people are saying hormagaunts are still trash. They are 1 pt cheaper, they now run d6+3 instead of 3d6 take the highest. You can actually use fleet for something to reroll your run distance on the first turn.

so you are looking at the ability to force an opponent to choose to either shoot the hormagaunts that are bearing down at a pretty fast rate or your second line of tough guy MC's. if they choose to shoot up the hormagaunts your MC linebreakers are able to move that much closer unmolested.

I am thinking 3x20 hormagaunts will provide a nice base to the swarm at only 300 pts total. Sure it was tough to pay more for toxin but I think naked hormagaunts definitely have a place on the table.

I agree. Even if your enemy knows Hormagaunts aren't that scary as standard, 30 of them moving 12" a turn towards them always distracts my opponent, regardless of their thinking. While they do often end up useless for me (killing stuff wise), i always take them, because they're fun and anything that helps them in the 6th codex is a bonus to me. 3x20 is what i'll be doing too.

ergotoxin wrote:Here's some bad news for all Ripper lovers... The new Warrior set doesn't contain any.

Good.

Joking of course. But i can't help but feel i have to build the things if they are sat there.




[edit]

Forgot to ask:

What was the info/ rumours on different Hive Fleets? Was that proven wrong, ignored etc?
That could hold some serious unit changers, maybe each Hive Fleet will become notorious for something with some further fluff.

Oval base monsters are cheaper than the Wraithknight or even the Riptide, so Nids have that going for them, which is nice.

 SHUPPET wrote:

It also seems terribly lazy to take Spores and The Parasite out of the codex rather than make a model with this release, or even just plan to do it sometime in the future and let the people who made their own conversions (with GW's encouragement to do so), play with the models they made. So no matter what else we get I'm pretty unimpressed with what we know about the new Dex. Doom is also 99% likely to be gone, but assuming the 1% does happen, it still doesn't matter because he is useless without a Pod.

It's a decision taken more from good business sense than laziness. We can see a definite pattern of GW cutting down on a new Finecast releases (for whatever internal reasoning they have), and they clearly don't think that plastic special characters are a worthy return on investment yet. GW do have a finite amount of development/production capacity per release; remember how they said that they wanted new Jetbikes with the Eldar release, but didn't have the capacity to do it alongside everything else that came out?
Personally, I would much rather see new plastics for things like Warriors and Hive/Tyrant Guard, than get Parasite or Doom models. Low production run special characters like those are best kept to Imperial Armour books with Forge World models.

 SHUPPET wrote:

For every unit we are gaining (Crone, Haruspex, Exocrine) we lose something from the last codex (Doom, Parasite, MycetSpore) meaning we just replaced two great options and one mediocre one with what looks like it will be one great unit and two mediocre ones.

This is less because of an issue with the new codex, and more due to the fact the 5E codex was a bloated mess of badly-costed new units added for no reason. They're now cleaning that mess up.

And how do you know the new units are medicore? We don't have full stats for them yet, only some unconfirmed snippets. Wave Serpents were 'medicore' or 'overcosted' until we saw the vehicle equipment rules.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Between that news, the Tervigon troop nerf

A long overdue change that cuts down on min/maxed net lists. If you're taking a swarmy build you should absolutely be taking large broods of Termagants. Hell, they're even 20% cheaper now too.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Zoanthropes needing to roll for their powers & also having no pods

We do know Broodlords at least don't need to roll for their powers. Why would you assume Zoanthropes do?

This is like assuming Raveners or Mawlocs were removed from the codex because their rules haven't been seen yet. Stop making assumptions and using them as a basis for an argument.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Hormagaunts & Genestealers still being just as trash as ever

How do you know this? There's been no confirmation on:
a) What the standard biomorphs do
b) What other options/buffs are in the codex that could help them
c) What reserve/outflank/deep strike options are there

This is like all those people who said Guardians and Dire Avengers were 'trash' based on the leaked Troops page, well before we saw what Battle Focus and Shuriken weapons did.

You don't even have half the picture yet, let alone enough info to write off core units before anyone has seen the codex.

 SHUPPET wrote:

the only serious improvement that we can realistically expect at this point in time is cheaper Fex's

... and cheaper Hive Tyrants/Flyrants, Tyrannofexes, guants, Venomthropes... in fact almost every unit in that WD battle report saw a points drop. Why don't you 'realistically expect' that to happen throughout the rest of the codex?

 SHUPPET wrote:

I'm really not sure what news people are getting excited about

I'm excited after looking back at the recent progression of 6E codexes. As GW have updated armies for 6E we've see a really solid improvement in internal army balance over time, often with multiple build types becoming viable. And I have no reason to think that trend won't continue with Nids.

 xttz wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

It also seems terribly lazy to take Spores and The Parasite out of the codex rather than make a model with this release, or even just plan to do it sometime in the future and let the people who made their own conversions (with GW's encouragement to do so), play with the models they made. So no matter what else we get I'm pretty unimpressed with what we know about the new Dex. Doom is also 99% likely to be gone, but assuming the 1% does happen, it still doesn't matter because he is useless without a Pod.

It's a decision taken more from good business sense than laziness. We can see a definite pattern of GW cutting down on a new Finecast releases (for whatever internal reasoning they have), and they clearly don't think that plastic special characters are a worthy return on investment yet. GW do have a finite amount of development/production capacity per release; remember how they said that they wanted new Jetbikes with the Eldar release, but didn't have the capacity to do it alongside everything else that came out?
Personally, I would much rather see new plastics for things like Warriors and Hive/Tyrant Guard, than get Parasite or Doom models. Low production run special characters like those are best kept to Imperial Armour books with Forge World models.

 SHUPPET wrote:

For every unit we are gaining (Crone, Haruspex, Exocrine) we lose something from the last codex (Doom, Parasite, MycetSpore) meaning we just replaced two great options and one mediocre one with what looks like it will be one great unit and two mediocre ones.

This is less because of an issue with the new codex, and more due to the fact the 5E codex was a bloated mess of badly-costed new units added for no reason. They're now cleaning that mess up.

And how do you know the new units are medicore? We don't have full stats for them yet, only some unconfirmed snippets. Wave Serpents were 'medicore' or 'overcosted' until we saw the vehicle equipment rules.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Between that news, the Tervigon troop nerf

A long overdue change that cuts down on min/maxed net lists. If you're taking a swarmy build you should absolutely be taking large broods of Termagants. Hell, they're even 20% cheaper now too.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Zoanthropes needing to roll for their powers & also having no pods

We do know Broodlords at least don't need to roll for their powers. Why would you assume Zoanthropes do?

This is like assuming Raveners or Mawlocs were removed from the codex because their rules haven't been seen yet. Stop making assumptions and using them as a basis for an argument.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Hormagaunts & Genestealers still being just as trash as ever

How do you know this? There's been no confirmation on:
a) What the standard biomorphs do
b) What other options/buffs are in the codex that could help them
c) What reserve/outflank/deep strike options are there

This is like all those people who said Guardians and Dire Avengers were 'trash' based on the leaked Troops page, well before we saw what Battle Focus and Shuriken weapons did.

You don't even have half the picture yet, let alone enough info to write off core units before anyone has seen the codex.

 SHUPPET wrote:

the only serious improvement that we can realistically expect at this point in time is cheaper Fex's

... and cheaper Hive Tyrants/Flyrants, Tyrannofexes, guants, Venomthropes... in fact almost every unit in that WD battle report saw a points drop. Why don't you 'realistically expect' that to happen throughout the rest of the codex?

 SHUPPET wrote:

I'm really not sure what news people are getting excited about

I'm excited after looking back at the recent progression of 6E codexes. As GW have updated armies for 6E we've see a really solid improvement in internal army balance over time, often with multiple build types becoming viable. And I have no reason to think that trend won't continue with Nids.

Have an exalt. This is my standpoint. Stop comparing and look at it as a new codex.

 xttz wrote:

It's a decision taken more from good business sense than laziness. We can see a definite pattern of GW cutting down on a new Finecast releases (for whatever internal reasoning they have), and they clearly don't think that plastic special characters are a worthy return on investment yet. GW do have a finite amount of development/production capacity per release; remember how they said that they wanted new Jetbikes with the Eldar release, but didn't have the capacity to do it alongside everything else that came out

You say that, but the Hobbit Legolas and Tauriel minis have been released in plastic. Albeit at £15 for an elf on foot... Still, the potential is there.

 xttz wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

It also seems terribly lazy to take Spores and The Parasite out of the codex rather than make a model with this release, or even just plan to do it sometime in the future and let the people who made their own conversions (with GW's encouragement to do so), play with the models they made. So no matter what else we get I'm pretty unimpressed with what we know about the new Dex. Doom is also 99% likely to be gone, but assuming the 1% does happen, it still doesn't matter because he is useless without a Pod.

It's a decision taken more from good business sense than laziness. We can see a definite pattern of GW cutting down on a new Finecast releases (for whatever internal reasoning they have), and they clearly don't think that plastic special characters are a worthy return on investment yet. GW do have a finite amount of development/production capacity per release; remember how they said that they wanted new Jetbikes with the Eldar release, but didn't have the capacity to do it alongside everything else that came out?
Personally, I would much rather see new plastics for things like Warriors and Hive/Tyrant Guard, than get Parasite or Doom models. Low production run special characters like those are best kept to Imperial Armour books with Forge World models.

 SHUPPET wrote:

For every unit we are gaining (Crone, Haruspex, Exocrine) we lose something from the last codex (Doom, Parasite, MycetSpore) meaning we just replaced two great options and one mediocre one with what looks like it will be one great unit and two mediocre ones.

This is less because of an issue with the new codex, and more due to the fact the 5E codex was a bloated mess of badly-costed new units added for no reason. They're now cleaning that mess up.

And how do you know the new units are medicore? We don't have full stats for them yet, only some unconfirmed snippets. Wave Serpents were 'medicore' or 'overcosted' until we saw the vehicle equipment rules.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Between that news, the Tervigon troop nerf

A long overdue change that cuts down on min/maxed net lists. If you're taking a swarmy build you should absolutely be taking large broods of Termagants. Hell, they're even 20% cheaper now too.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Zoanthropes needing to roll for their powers & also having no pods

We do know Broodlords at least don't need to roll for their powers. Why would you assume Zoanthropes do?

This is like assuming Raveners or Mawlocs were removed from the codex because their rules haven't been seen yet. Stop making assumptions and using them as a basis for an argument.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Hormagaunts & Genestealers still being just as trash as ever

How do you know this? There's been no confirmation on:
a) What the standard biomorphs do
b) What other options/buffs are in the codex that could help them
c) What reserve/outflank/deep strike options are there

This is like all those people who said Guardians and Dire Avengers were 'trash' based on the leaked Troops page, well before we saw what Battle Focus and Shuriken weapons did.

You don't even have half the picture yet, let alone enough info to write off core units before anyone has seen the codex.


... and cheaper Hive Tyrants/Flyrants, Tyrannofexes, guants, Venomthropes... in fact almost every unit in that WD battle report saw a points drop. Why don't you 'realistically expect' that to happen throughout the rest of the codex?

 SHUPPET wrote:

I'm really not sure what news people are getting excited about

I'm excited after looking back at the recent progression of 6E codexes. As GW have updated armies for 6E we've see a really solid improvement in internal army balance over time, often with multiple build types becoming viable. And I have no reason to think that trend won't continue with Nids.

Taking what I said out of context makes for an EXTREMELY weak argument.

Yes Tervigon's were undercosted, nowhere did I say that they weren't, I too agree they needed a points increase. Just like Hormagaunts, Warriors and Stealers all needed fixing. But to our knowledge, the only real change to any of these units is a Tervigon nerf. This is not good news. All 4 being balanced would be great news. And as you said it could still happen. But it hasn't happened yet. The only news we have is the Tervigon nerf. This is the news we are responding to, not the wishlisting for buffs to the unplayable units. And on it's own, this is bad news because our one viable troop now takes up even more points and leaves even less freedom for the rest of the FOC. So my question to you is, why did you split up my sentence, and skip half of it in your quotes to try give the impression I was saying something completely irrelevant to my actual point? Completely twisting up what I said is a pretty transparent way of trying to counter a valid point without actually having any factual information behind your argument. Because I clearly said that between MANY different reasons, of which I listed, that we are losing options, not that our codex isn't improving competitively or that Tervigon's were underpriced. Nobody is saying that there is no hope, nids are nerfed, etc. In fact we are likely to be more competitive than ever, l33t flyer spam hurrdurr. But just as monobuild as ever.

On the subject of Zoanthropes, we have had multiple rumours of them having to roll for the powers, we can realistically expect this (unlike Genestealers being able to attack turn of entry and Hormagaunts being able to run and attack or other such fixes) but this alone isn't enough for me to write them off though, anything could happen there. But the fact is, even if they don't have have to roll, they have still been nerfed, because they no longer have their pod. A point of mine that once again I notice you skipped over and tried to act like I was basing my entire argument on shady rumours, which are irrelevant anyway.


And forgive me, but I don't view 10 points of the price a Venomthrope a SERIOUS improvement to the strength of the codex . Nor do I consider 1 point off per Termagant, but needing to take triple as many for Tervigon troops a serious improvement to that unit either. But regardless to that. buffs to the units we already take is really irrelevant to the point I was clearly making about mono-lists - 30 points or whatever it was off the Flyrant is brilliant. Absolutely. But this isn't improving the dex's flexibility at all. It's just cementing a unit that most already take max of per armylist already. That isn't adding new options. However, the pointcost drop on the carnifex is giving us Fexes back. This is great news, we can possibly use our Heavys for killing tanks, taking pressure off the elite slot, allowing other units that HG to be taken - if you so choose to take them. This is flexibility. This is news to be excited about. That is why I said

 SHUPPET wrote:

the only serious improvement that we can realistically expect at this point in time is cheaper Fex's

Now tell me some more great news. That further improves the flexibility of our codex, and explain how so (eg just saying "50 points off T-fex duh" does not do this, as it just fills a very similar Carnifex except costs more points to be a bit more unfocused. This does not add any further flexibility to the codex that the Carnifex points drop doesn't already do). I'll make it easy for you, there isn't much.

Stop telling me how Hormagaunts and Genestealers could still be great because of all the things that they could still recieve, when the news that we have so far is that they are more or less exactly the same, with the same flaws, hence just as trash. Anything COULD happen with them. But so far nothing has. Note: I recall specifically adding things like "going off what we know at this point in time" (paraphrasing). We are talking about the response to the things we do know, such as the Tervigon nerf and units being taken out of the codex. THIS IS NOT GOOD NEWS, wishlisting for a bunch of other random crap doesn't change this fact. In fact, you also deliberately left this out of your post

 SHUPPET wrote:
*disclaimer: all the opinions in my post are referring to what we know already and thus the info we do have to go on. For example, hopes that Warriors will still get EW through synapse or that Hormagaunts can run and attack (hopes that I share), have not been included as relevant in this post, because at the end of the day wishlisting isn't relevant to anything*

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the bit about "cleaning up the badly costed units added in 5th" is one of the most facepalm inducing things I have read this entire thread. So we clean them up by blasting them out of the dex with a raygun? This is the correct resolution to an unbalanced unit? Why not just balance the point costs? And this comment by you is actually your argument for justifying the eradication of the SERIOUS addition to build flexibility added by Spores??? And the removal of having the option of a Doom, a unit actually good enough to occassionaly be able to justify taking in the elite slot over a HG brood? I said they took the lazy option, how is this not the lazy option???? This is just dumbfounding that you actually believe differently, although part of me while reading your posts strongly suspects you just wanted to argue against me for not being all aboard the "hooray for a new codex of monstrous creature spam!" train

I think we should stop this thread until there are actually some new news or rumours. Like a leak of the codex haha

Man....after all of these pictures I'm giving serious thought to starting a Tyranid force to balance out my Ultramarines.

What are people's thoughts on the Exocrine's cannon? A BFG on a big bug sounds like fun to me, but not if it isn't anywhere near worth taking.

The cheapness of the gaunts also has me a bit excited. I'm thinking the Swarm + Swarmlord + Exocrine would be a good start to a new army. Do we have any rumors at all on if there are any changes coming to the Swarmlord?

Was deathleaper always in the HQ section on the GW site?

 Red Corsair wrote:
Was deathleaper always in the HQ section on the GW site?

No, that's a change. An exciting one too, using a deathleaper as HQ could mean a totally stealer-shock style army (with lictors as elites). Might not be tournament winning but it'd be a different build.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Was deathleaper always in the HQ section on the GW site?

No, that's a change. An exciting one too, using a deathleaper as HQ could mean a totally stealer-shock style army (with lictors as elites). Might not be tournament winning but it'd be a different build.

I thought that was different. I don't play nids so it was probably easier to see with a level head

I would imagine your right! That could make for a really neat list!

Yeah can't wait to see what they've done with him this edition, I'm hoping he has some serious psychological warfare going on.

Also did the Harpy or Crone ever take a grounding check in that battle report?

Eldercaveman wrote:
Yeah can't wait to see what they've done with him this edition, I'm hoping he has some serious psychological warfare going on.

Also did the Harpy or Crone ever take a grounding check in that battle report?

It was never mentioned, either because the tau players were too busy shooting the ground units, or perhaps they have an immunity to grounding...


If you look though the pictures of the batrep, the turn that the hive fleet Behemoth crone showed up she vector struck farsight's unit (in the front of the nid's DZ) and ended up nearly at half-table (they were playing a 4x8, hammer and anvil deployment). While that is very VERY light on facts, i have a FEELING that the Harpy and the Crone will have a movement of 18"-36" when they swoop, unlike standard FMCs.

Edited to add deployment style.

.

James811 wrote:
I think we should stop this thread until there are actually some new news or rumours. Like a leak of the codex haha

Really. I'm thinking this thread is pretty much over. Now it's degenerated into lots of wishlisting and referring to obscure leaked pics not posted here.

Mods?

So the New termagants do not come with any new parts? It's been changed on website to include 21 devourers. It no longer says strangleweb.

My Mega Bloks Dragon Universe eggs, while no longer drop spores, will make good LOS blocking terrain for my home table.

At $10 per spore, i'm not too upset over it, though i can see why people who spent $40 to $50 per spod are definitely miffed over losing the things.