Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Uh, I think the idea is that they're AP 5 + Rending. Not just AP 5.

IB - Hunt units shooting each other is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Didn't catch that on the first read, Holy smokes.

Yeah...he has access to a codex...but that doesn't mean that anything he says is true.

A lot of those changes are almost crippling to the broods in question.

Altruizine wrote:
Uh, I think the idea is that they're AP 5 + Rending. Not just AP 5.

IB - Hunt units shooting each other is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Didn't catch that on the first read, Holy smokes.

Maybe, but they just says "Rending Claws have AP value of bolter", would have thought that something as important as Rending would have also been mentioned. They did mention the special rule of Boneswords, which we know to be true thanks to Black Library.

Yeah, having our units, and models attack themselves is very, very dumb.

If even half that list is true, my nids stand a good chance of staying on the shelf collecting dust.

He may have just not mentioned the Rending rule as it's incredibly obvious. GW seem to be giving all the melee options a weapon profile, and getting AP5 is actually a slight buff to Rending Claws.

As for instinctive behaviour, that's another one of GW's 'cinematic' changes. It has a 1 in 3 chance of hurting you, or a 1 in 3 chance of a buff (Rage / Stealth / PE).

I hope he is talking out his ass....

Most of those rumours suck...

Yup, most of the changes (if true) will firmly support the monobuild we currently have, albeit weaker, because of no biomancy. Most changes support the mediocre shooting the nids have and completely bone the CC capabilities of most CC broods.

Did GW's incompetence just kill off tyranids? I will definitely find out on my own soon, when I get my hands on the codex and see with my own eyes.

Just can't get over the how much it is to equip Genestealers with Scything Talons... which have a worse AP than the Rending Claws that they come with as standard, all for 1 extra attack. Either way, not long till we all have access to the Codex, so we'll be able to see for ourselves.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
The last section in the White Dwarf mentions Cruddance as the author again, even if the book itself says 'GW Design Team'. I guess that would explain things.

Damn they really should have given the job to someone else. Guess Cruddace has an issue with facing up to his misgivings. It would be so easy to make this dex balanced IMO, why has he taken out good stuff and left the crap unchanged. Ward would have done a better job :lol:

It would explain a lot though. The guy just doesn't know how to write balanced books. It's like he's still reeling from people calling IG, so now he just writes complete crap. (See: last nids book, WD SoB, and possibly now this book.)

So people seem to have entered the denial mode now.

It's not even about writing balanced books.. They can't even be bothered to play their own game most of the time. All it would take is some collaboration with players to fix almost all of these problems. A lot of us can fix bad units in under five minutes.

 Kirasu wrote:
It's not even about writing balanced books.. They can't even be bothered to play their own game most of the time. All it would take is some collaboration with players to fix almost all of these problems. A lot of us can fix bad units in under five minutes.

Nah. Robin Cruddace is just bad.

What word do we use then for the good writers at GW who suffer from the above problem I mentioned?

 Kirasu wrote:
What word do we use then for the good writers at GW who suffer from the above problem I mentioned?

A book having "bad units" does not mean the author is bad.

A book where the "bad units" and "bad options" are so heavily weighted that you end up with monobuilds does mean the author is bad.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
It's not even about writing balanced books.. They can't even be bothered to play their own game most of the time. All it would take is some collaboration with players to fix almost all of these problems. A lot of us can fix bad units in under five minutes.

Nah. Robin Cruddace is just bad.

He does okay fantasy, and he did an okay SM.

 MaCa wrote:
Yup, most of the changes (if true) will firmly support the monobuild we currently have, albeit weaker, because of no biomancy. Most changes support the mediocre shooting the nids have and completely bone the CC capabilities of most CC broods.

Did GW's incompetence just kill off tyranids? I will definitely find out on my own soon, when I get my hands on the codex and see with my own eyes.

Well, there is two ways of looking at it if this info is true. Everything that needed a buff seems to have avoided getting one (cept Fexy).

On one hand, its very likely that we are going to have a very competitive monobuild, with The Tervigon price increase not only encompassing 20 gaunts and catalyst with it, but also being more than made up for point per point by Flyrants getting cheaper, then there is going to be the likely powerhouse of Crone in the fast attack, with a choice between HG and Exocrine for our Elites, we may just have gotten a stronger build, even IF we can't roll for Biomancy. Flyrants aren't as vulnerable with that much anti-air and a guaranteed cover save anywhere on the board, it's actually more reliable way of protecting them (from their counters) than hoping to roll Iron Arm. Althought everything else on the Biomancy table is almost guaranteed to be useful as well, sounds like Nids table is going to be quite intensely powerful as well.

But on the other hand, should you foolish travellers stray to far off the well trodden road of this build, well, here there be monsters and be careful ye do not sail off the edge of the gaming table. I don't know how the general Nid customer base is going to feel about a bunch of their units being NERFED into 6th, many already viewed this as one of the weaker codex's, and even if he was leaving them the same while taking out gear like pods and the Doom, and telling us here play with 5 dragons on your team or lose, might just be a new level of foolishness from GW I'm sure all the players jumping on the new dex will find nothing to complain about though.

It's all to be seen though.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
What word do we use then for the good writers at GW who suffer from the above problem I mentioned?

A book having "bad units" does not mean the author is bad.

A book where the "bad units" and "bad options" are so heavily weighted that you end up with monobuilds does mean the author is bad.

And how do we explain CSM and Dark Angels? GW is pretty much terrible at writing for their own game due to lack of effort, competence or perhaps even caring.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 MaCa wrote:
Yup, most of the changes (if true) will firmly support the monobuild we currently have, albeit weaker, because of no biomancy. Most changes support the mediocre shooting the nids have and completely bone the CC capabilities of most CC broods.

Did GW's incompetence just kill off tyranids? I will definitely find out on my own soon, when I get my hands on the codex and see with my own eyes.

Well, there is two ways of looking at it if this info is true. Everything that needed a buff seems to have avoided getting one (cept Fexy).

On one hand, its very likely that we are going to have a very competitive monobuild, with The Tervigon price increase not only encompassing 20 gaunts and catalyst with it, but also being more than made up for point per point by Flyrants getting cheaper, then there is going to be the likely powerhouse of Crone in the fast attack, with a choice between HG and Exocrine for our Elites, we may just have gotten a stronger build, even IF we can't roll for Biomancy. Flyrants aren't as vulnerable with that much anti-air and a guaranteed cover save anywhere on the board, it's actually more reliable way of protecting them (from their counters) than hoping to roll Iron Arm. Althought everything else on the Biomancy table is almost guaranteed to be useful as well, sounds like Nids table is going to be quite intensely powerful as well.

But on the other hand, should you foolish travellers stray to far off the well trodden road of this build, well, here there be monsters and be careful ye do not sail off the edge of the gaming table. I don't know how the general customer base is going to feel about a bunch of their units being NERFED into 6th, many already viewed this as one of the weaker codex's, even if he was leaving them the same and taking out gear like pods and the Doom, and telling us here play with 5 dragons on your team or lose, might just be a new level of foolishness from GW I'm sure all the players jumping on the new dex will find nothing to complain about though.

It's all to be seen though.

B-b-b-but guise, there might be something we don't know yet!

I admit we don't have 100% of the picture, but really, we have enough to see we're not really coming out ahead with this codex.

Believe me, if I'm wrong, it will be the best tasting crow I've ever eaten.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Nah. Robin Cruddace is just bad.

He does okay fantasy, and he did an okay SM.

Well, in all fairness, most of the stuff in the SM codex is just a copy-paste of the previous one with some point changes - not much you can do wrong there. The additional rules such as Grav weapons and the change to Herioc Intervention seem poor (to me).

 streamdragon wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 MaCa wrote:
Yup, most of the changes (if true) will firmly support the monobuild we currently have, albeit weaker, because of no biomancy. Most changes support the mediocre shooting the nids have and completely bone the CC capabilities of most CC broods.

Did GW's incompetence just kill off tyranids? I will definitely find out on my own soon, when I get my hands on the codex and see with my own eyes.

Well, there is two ways of looking at it if this info is true. Everything that needed a buff seems to have avoided getting one (cept Fexy).

On one hand, its very likely that we are going to have a very competitive monobuild, with The Tervigon price increase not only encompassing 20 gaunts and catalyst with it, but also being more than made up for point per point by Flyrants getting cheaper, then there is going to be the likely powerhouse of Crone in the fast attack, with a choice between HG and Exocrine for our Elites, we may just have gotten a stronger build, even IF we can't roll for Biomancy. Flyrants aren't as vulnerable with that much anti-air and a guaranteed cover save anywhere on the board, it's actually more reliable way of protecting them (from their counters) than hoping to roll Iron Arm. Althought everything else on the Biomancy table is almost guaranteed to be useful as well, sounds like Nids table is going to be quite intensely powerful as well.

But on the other hand, should you foolish travellers stray to far off the well trodden road of this build, well, here there be monsters and be careful ye do not sail off the edge of the gaming table. I don't know how the general customer base is going to feel about a bunch of their units being NERFED into 6th, many already viewed this as one of the weaker codex's, even if he was leaving them the same and taking out gear like pods and the Doom, and telling us here play with 5 dragons on your team or lose, might just be a new level of foolishness from GW I'm sure all the players jumping on the new dex will find nothing to complain about though.

It's all to be seen though.

B-b-b-but guise, there might be something we don't know yet!

I admit we don't have 100% of the picture, but really, we have enough to see we're not really coming out ahead with this codex.

Believe me, if I'm wrong, it will be the best tasting crow I've ever eaten.

Meh I agree with you, I've had the opinion that we were getting screwed based off the info we have for a long time now, yet every time I've pointed out that "hey this really isn't looking all that great guys" I've had a bunch of people jump down my throat for judging the dex before it came out. I mean, forgive me for commenting on the info we do have, right ? However it was fine to be all rowdy cheers and linked-arm irish dancing about getting new flyers that nobody still knows the stats for, instead of getting buffs to our ridiculously underpowered troop choices...

Our dex might be competitive in the only way CSM dex is. Spam stupid fliers (Heldrakes / Crones), nice tanky troop choices (Plague Marines / Tervigons), pack out the other slots with what costs well and can keep up with the fliers (Bikes & Flyrants).

And if the Crone sucks, we get to go back to 5E codex, just with less options. Great news.

Okay, some units that were in need of some improvement did not have it, as it seems. But it is not the case for all of them.
Little critters (Termagants, hormagaunts) are cheaper, in line with their limited power and low survivability.
Instinctive behaviour will not be a handicap any time you lose a Ld check (plus it looks plain fluffy).
Lictor with infiltrate and significant point decrease may find some use (like 2nd or 1st turn charge threat if you go second).
Carnifex priced more reasonably.
Many big bugs given reduced prices (in an edition which favours MC quite a lot compared to tanks).

So I think it's too early to dismiss this codex as being "bad".

 Ravajaxe wrote:
Instinctive behaviour will not be a handicap any time you lose a Ld check (plus it looks plain fluffy).
Lictor with infiltrate and significant point decrease may find some use (like 2nd or 1st turn charge threat if you go second).

Lictors have also been rumored to act independently with 3 taking one slot.

Huge for a highly contested elite slot.

i haven't seen any discussion on this, but in the WD on the tyranid codex pages, if you look closely, there is descriptions ofr models being Bulky. doesn't bulky and very bulky only affect being in transports? if spore is gone then what transport is left?

also in the WD battle report, didn't the hive tyrants have some biomancy powers? at work atm so my copy is not with me. i could be emembering wrong

quechal wrote:
i haven't seen any discussion on this, but in the WD on the tyranid codex pages, if you look closely, there is descriptions ofr models being Bulky. doesn't bulky and very bulky only affect being in transports? if spore is gone then what transport is left?

also in the WD battle report, didn't the hive tyrants have some biomancy powers? at work atm so my copy is not with me. i could be emembering wrong

Could be clarification for clarification's sake, could be to prevent forgeworld mishaps (like 30 terminators in a thunderhawk), or there could be in book abilities and powers influenced by model size.

The GW website right now states that the bug cards can be used in addition to the main rulebook disciplines.

quechal wrote:
i haven't seen any discussion on this, but in the WD on the tyranid codex pages, if you look closely, there is descriptions ofr models being Bulky. doesn't bulky and very bulky only affect being in transports? if spore is gone then what transport is left?

also in the WD battle report, didn't the hive tyrants have some biomancy powers? at work atm so my copy is not with me. i could be emembering wrong

There's a Forgeworld model that does damage depending on Bulky/Very Bulky/etc. They're just doing it for consistency.

quechal wrote:
i haven't seen any discussion on this, but in the WD on the tyranid codex pages, if you look closely, there is descriptions ofr models being Bulky. doesn't bulky and very bulky only affect being in transports? if spore is gone then what transport is left?

Has come up a few dozen times already. There's still an Apocalypse Nid transport and it still affects stuff like buildings.

also in the WD battle report, didn't the hive tyrants have some biomancy powers? at work atm so my copy is not with me. i could be emembering wrong

No, all the psykers had Tyranid ones only I believe.

Hmm... what if FW ended up making the Mycetic Spore?

Cool, so Rippers don't eat each other now, no wait, yea they do, it's just now Hormagaunts and anything else that have Feed does too. Wheeee.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
He does okay fantasy

He gutted Tomb Kings too.
So no.

So this is why GW were hinting that Tyranid Warriors are so important. Helps to keep up a Synapse bubble.