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 streamdragon wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
...and still BS0...even if they have access to other disciplines, GW is sure telling you not to risk it.

The Broodlord always knows "The Horror", according to that page, so no, there is no risk involved. Do we know what "The Horror" actually does yet? I'm guessing it gives him Fear.

Forces a pinning check with a -Ld modifier, if Warseer guy is to be believed.

Interesting. I guess that's one way to save your Stealers from overwatch, since I don't think Pinned units can fire Overwatch.

Of course, now you just have to find something that isn't immune...

I believe that's one of the few things a pinned unit can do.

Pinned units can fire overwatch, but assaulting them in cover does NOT reduce your initiative. So if the power goes off as planned it's a roundabout way to give genestealers frag grenades again.

Also in the 5th ed book the horror is a hive tyrant power that causes a unit to take a morale check at regular leadership. No big whoop.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Posit wrote:
I think it's adorable that after all this time people are still giving GW the benefit of the doubt.

Look at the home-run codices that were Tau, Eldar, and to a lesser degree, Space Marines. We have all the reason in the world to believe that Tyranids would follow the trend of fun codices with useful and powerful units. I'm still not convinced this isn't true, but we won't know for sure until everyone interested has had the book and read for themselves the combos and unit synergies.

Call me naive, but i'm still optimistic that we'll get something at least as playable as Codex: Space Marines.

Calling the Eldar a home run codex is atrocious. Phil Kelly can't make a decently balanced book to save his life and is in my opinion the worst games designer on their payroll. Just because Eldar have won a few major tournaments getting single handedly carried by a 1000 point death star unit or spammed dedicated transports doesn't make the book any better, in fact it only makes it worse. Since so much stuff there sucks and wasn't fixed at all (or even attempted to be fixed) from the previous edition where they also sucked it would've been more logical just having everything suck. Eldar are just another CSM book, but their high end potential fits the current meta better.

Necron weren't a good book either, literally noone who ever plays at any sort of competitive events ever use anything else than Scythes, Wraiths and Annihilation Barges. 70% of the unit entries are gathering dust.

The guy who designed Tau however should be allowed to write all the 40K army books, since he clearly knows what armies need to have in order to compete in 6th edition. He gives options to deal with everything and charges a pretty accurately pin pointed points cost for each of those options. He failed on a couple units too, but maybe he's one of those Tau guys who just think Vespid and ugly mercenaries in general is a stupid idea.

Yeah, pinned units can fire overwatch.

 ductvader wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
...and still BS0...even if they have access to other disciplines, GW is sure telling you not to risk it.

The Broodlord always knows "The Horror", according to that page, so no, there is no risk involved. Do we know what "The Horror" actually does yet? I'm guessing it gives him Fear.

Forces a pinning check with a -Ld modifier, if Warseer guy is to be believed.

Interesting. I guess that's one way to save your Stealers from overwatch, since I don't think Pinned units can fire Overwatch.

Of course, now you just have to find something that isn't immune...

I believe that's one of the few things a pinned unit can do.

Yup, you're right.

 Therion wrote:
The guy who designed Tau however should be allowed to write all the 40K army books, since he clearly knows what armies need to play in 6th edition. He gives options to deal with everything and charges a pretty accurately pin pointed points cost for each of those options.

Dunno. Dark Angels was pretty damn dull.

Though that may just be because the Dark Angels as an army are pretty damn dull, rather than it being Vetock's fault. Still don't understand why they have their own codex, besides $$$.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

Dunno. Dark Angels was pretty damn dull.

I have to disagree. They have a lot of synergy shenaginans (banners, de-buff grenades, Darkshroud, timed teleports and beacons on bikes) which the player has to pay attention to in order to get most out of the army.

 Therion wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Posit wrote:
I think it's adorable that after all this time people are still giving GW the benefit of the doubt.

Look at the home-run codices that were Tau, Eldar, and to a lesser degree, Space Marines. We have all the reason in the world to believe that Tyranids would follow the trend of fun codices with useful and powerful units. I'm still not convinced this isn't true, but we won't know for sure until everyone interested has had the book and read for themselves the combos and unit synergies.

Call me naive, but i'm still optimistic that we'll get something at least as playable as Codex: Space Marines.

Calling the Eldar a home run codex is atrocious. Phil Kelly can't make a decently balanced book to save his life and is in my opinion the worst games designer on their payroll. Just because Eldar have won a few major tournaments getting single handedly carried by a 1000 point death star unit or spammed dedicated transports doesn't make the book any better, in fact it only makes it worse. Since so much stuff there sucks and wasn't fixed at all (or even attempted to be fixed) from the previous edition where they also sucked it would've been more logical just having everything suck. Eldar are just another CSM book, but their high end potential fits the current meta better.

Necron weren't a good book either, literally noone who ever plays at any sort of competitive events ever use anything else than Scythes, Wraiths and Annihilation Barges. 70% of the unit entries are gathering dust.

The guy who designed Tau however should be allowed to write all the 40K army books, since he clearly knows what armies need to have in order to compete in 6th edition. He gives options to deal with everything and charges a pretty accurately pin pointed points cost for each of those options. He failed on a couple units too, but maybe he's one of those Tau guys who just think Vespid and ugly mercenaries in general is a stupid idea.

QFT.

Jeremy Vetock did Tau. Keep in mind, he also did Dark Angels, so take that how you will.

I have a friend who attended Games Day awhile back (last summer-ish) who got to talk to Vetock himself. He really grilled him on the Dark Angels codex, and (according to him) he says Vetock was genuinely surprised and somewhat saddened that people found the codex lacking.

So while I think Vetock has the potential to be a good codex writer, I'm not sure its with intention...

No Ymgarls, no spores, no doom, no biomancy on tyrants?

That's concerning...

I'm willing to give Vetock a chance. He did do a really good job on Tau, and Dark Angels was pretty boring, but he is still an aspiring new writer. If I have to give Kelly a pass for CSM (bar none, the worst codex of this edition), and Cruddace a pass for Tyranids, then Vetock should certainly get a pass.

Frankly, I think hiring new blood is the best thing GW could do. I have respect for Cruddace and Kelly, but I think they're already washed up. Let someone excited and fresh take the mantle.

 Therion wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Posit wrote:
I think it's adorable that after all this time people are still giving GW the benefit of the doubt.

Look at the home-run codices that were Tau, Eldar, and to a lesser degree, Space Marines. We have all the reason in the world to believe that Tyranids would follow the trend of fun codices with useful and powerful units. I'm still not convinced this isn't true, but we won't know for sure until everyone interested has had the book and read for themselves the combos and unit synergies.

Call me naive, but i'm still optimistic that we'll get something at least as playable as Codex: Space Marines.

Calling the Eldar a home run codex is atrocious. Phil Kelly can't make a decently balanced book to save his life and is in my opinion the worst games designer on their payroll. Just because Eldar have won a few major tournaments getting single handedly carried by a 1000 point death star unit or spammed dedicated transports doesn't make the book any better, in fact it only makes it worse. Since so much stuff there sucks and wasn't fixed at all (or even attempted to be fixed) from the previous edition where they also sucked it would've been more logical just having everything suck. Eldar are just another CSM book, but their high end potential fits the current meta better.

Necron weren't a good book either, literally noone who ever plays at any sort of competitive events ever use anything else than Scythes, Wraiths and Annihilation Barges. 70% of the unit entries are gathering dust.

The guy who designed Tau however should be allowed to write all the 40K army books, since he clearly knows what armies need to have in order to compete in 6th edition. He gives options to deal with everything and charges a pretty accurately pin pointed points cost for each of those options. He failed on a couple units too, but maybe he's one of those Tau guys who just think Vespid and ugly mercenaries in general is a stupid idea.

I disagree. Tau is a really broken codex. while alot of thought has went into making exciting unit combos , game balance was broken in the process and now tau armies crushes every other armies.

That's not Tau's fault, though. That's 6th Edition's fault. Tau was made into the premiere shooting army of the game (which fits the fluff). It just so happens that this edition we're in put shooting on this massive pedestal while doing everything it could to crap on assault without just outright getting rid of it. The only thing I would hold against Tau is its plethora of ignores cover. I think the army and the meta as a whole would have been better off without that mechanic being so prevalent.

cyberjonesy wrote:
I disagree. Tau is a really broken codex. while alot of thought has went into making exciting unit combos , game balance was broken in the process and now tau armies crushes every other armies.

Tau? If you were talking Eldar you might have a case, but Tau? The army is fairly balanced, and with the return of both the superhorde and the Monster Mash, Riptides and Broadsides are going to start suffering even more.

Your average Tau list can easily handle the mixes of bugs, but quickly folds to all MC or all horde.

cyberjonesy wrote:

 Therion wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Posit wrote:
I think it's adorable that after all this time people are still giving GW the benefit of the doubt.

Look at the home-run codices that were Tau, Eldar, and to a lesser degree, Space Marines. We have all the reason in the world to believe that Tyranids would follow the trend of fun codices with useful and powerful units. I'm still not convinced this isn't true, but we won't know for sure until everyone interested has had the book and read for themselves the combos and unit synergies.

Call me naive, but i'm still optimistic that we'll get something at least as playable as Codex: Space Marines.

Calling the Eldar a home run codex is atrocious. Phil Kelly can't make a decently balanced book to save his life and is in my opinion the worst games designer on their payroll. Just because Eldar have won a few major tournaments getting single handedly carried by a 1000 point death star unit or spammed dedicated transports doesn't make the book any better, in fact it only makes it worse. Since so much stuff there sucks and wasn't fixed at all (or even attempted to be fixed) from the previous edition where they also sucked it would've been more logical just having everything suck. Eldar are just another CSM book, but their high end potential fits the current meta better.

Necron weren't a good book either, literally noone who ever plays at any sort of competitive events ever use anything else than Scythes, Wraiths and Annihilation Barges. 70% of the unit entries are gathering dust.

The guy who designed Tau however should be allowed to write all the 40K army books, since he clearly knows what armies need to have in order to compete in 6th edition. He gives options to deal with everything and charges a pretty accurately pin pointed points cost for each of those options. He failed on a couple units too, but maybe he's one of those Tau guys who just think Vespid and ugly mercenaries in general is a stupid idea.

I disagree. Tau is a really broken codex. while alot of thought has went into making exciting unit combos , game balance was broken in the process and now tau armies crushes every other armies.

I have not lost a single game to the new tau yet.
And the new tau get owned by a good eldar list (ignoring cover serpent shields are yawn against imperials, but absolutely brutal to tau).
But back on topic...

Most of the recent books support a lot of lists (yes, there may be an OP list in each of them, but....) there are still lots of good solid builds.

Here is hoping the ned dex has a lot of good solid builds.

Regarding the BL pic, I really want to see the price costs for the stealer upgrades under the popup.

cyberjonesy wrote:

 Therion wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Posit wrote:
I think it's adorable that after all this time people are still giving GW the benefit of the doubt.

Look at the home-run codices that were Tau, Eldar, and to a lesser degree, Space Marines. We have all the reason in the world to believe that Tyranids would follow the trend of fun codices with useful and powerful units. I'm still not convinced this isn't true, but we won't know for sure until everyone interested has had the book and read for themselves the combos and unit synergies.

Call me naive, but i'm still optimistic that we'll get something at least as playable as Codex: Space Marines.

Calling the Eldar a home run codex is atrocious. Phil Kelly can't make a decently balanced book to save his life and is in my opinion the worst games designer on their payroll. Just because Eldar have won a few major tournaments getting single handedly carried by a 1000 point death star unit or spammed dedicated transports doesn't make the book any better, in fact it only makes it worse. Since so much stuff there sucks and wasn't fixed at all (or even attempted to be fixed) from the previous edition where they also sucked it would've been more logical just having everything suck. Eldar are just another CSM book, but their high end potential fits the current meta better.

Necron weren't a good book either, literally noone who ever plays at any sort of competitive events ever use anything else than Scythes, Wraiths and Annihilation Barges. 70% of the unit entries are gathering dust.

The guy who designed Tau however should be allowed to write all the 40K army books, since he clearly knows what armies need to have in order to compete in 6th edition. He gives options to deal with everything and charges a pretty accurately pin pointed points cost for each of those options. He failed on a couple units too, but maybe he's one of those Tau guys who just think Vespid and ugly mercenaries in general is a stupid idea.

I disagree. Tau is a really broken codex. while alot of thought has went into making exciting unit combos , game balance was broken in the process and now tau armies crushes every other armies.

You got it backwards. The Tau codex has an internal synergy mechanic in the markerlights that makes it interesting (you're forced to have your units work as a team), and the Codex has multiple useful units in every force organisation slot. It also has additional force multipliers from the HQ options for additional synergy, plus a 'help your buddies' overwatch mechanic. The writer of the book also seems to understand all the different types of opponents you might face during a 40K tournament, and therefore gave units options for skyfire, interceptor, and even stuff like hit and run. There's nothing wrong with having options for everything, as long as they cost points. All Tau players sacrifice something to be able to cram the stuff they want in. To be fair, a 40K codex doesn't get any better than this, and it probably never has. Good job Jeremy Vetock. You're the man.

Just because the other GW games designers don't even understand what synergy means, and have never, ever, played at any sorts of tournaments ever or are even aware what tournament lists look like, doesn't make the Tau a broken codex. How about the other designers look at their books and wonder why people don't consider them competitive or why people are using the units they are using? Phil Kelly (despite having played Skaven at a UK GT a decade ago) for example writes so utterly boring and trash books with no internal mechanisms whatsoever that it makes me cringe just thinking about it. He's a relic from an age where the only change in a codex update was the number of shots on an assault cannon and a psychic power or two. All of the units he has success with seem completely accidental, and the reason they bring the overall power level of the book up is because they're so blatantly underpriced compared to everything else that it just underlines the designer's incompetence in having any sorts of internal balance or cohesion. If the Serpent Shield wasn't what it was and Eldar didn't have the unintentional advantage of having a bunch of battle brothers on the allies matrix that book would be one of the laughing stocks of the edition alongside the CSM which is only good for Heldrakes.

 pretre wrote:

15 for AG seems way too high (assuming it is furious charge and fleet like the rumors are saying) for a creature with fleet. It was only 10 last edition for MC and that included an initiative boost back in 5th. Either this is a very badly priced upgrade by about 10 points or AG will do something extra for creatures that already have fleet. My guess would be either grants the crusader rule or add 3 inches to charge rolls. Most likely crusader between the two though.

Zookie wrote:

 pretre wrote:

15 for AG seems way too high (assuming it is furious charge and fleet like the rumors are saying) for a creature with fleet. It was only 10 last edition for MC and that included an initiative boost back in 5th. Either this is a very badly priced upgrade by about 10 points or AG will do something extra for creatures that already have fleet. My guess would be either grants the crusader rule or add 3 inches to charge rolls. Most likely crusader between the two though.

Your optimism is amusing, but not enough to overcome my cynicism.

If current AG gives fleet+furious charge, and fleet is re-rolls to charge rolls, then what I see them doing is having AG give something useless like a +3" to run if you already have fleet.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
If current AG gives fleet+furious charge, and fleet is re-rolls to charge rolls, then what I see them doing is having AG give something useless like a +3" to run if you already have fleet.

Then what about Hormagaunts that already have Fleet, and already have +3 to Run with Bounding Leap?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
If current AG gives fleet+furious charge, and fleet is re-rolls to charge rolls, then what I see them doing is having AG give something useless like a +3" to run if you already have fleet.

Personally I think we're looking at an oversight in options, it makes much more sense for the whole brood's glands to be bought outside of the broodlord's options.

rollawaythestone wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
If current AG gives fleet+furious charge, and fleet is re-rolls to charge rolls, then what I see them doing is having AG give something useless like a +3" to run if you already have fleet.

Then what about Hormagaunts that already have Fleet, and already have +3 to Run with Bounding Leap?

Then they grow wings and fly into a better codex.

 Therion wrote:

You got it backwards. The Tau codex has an internal synergy mechanic in the markerlights that makes it interesting (you're forced to have your units work as a team), and the Codex has multiple useful units in every slot force organisation slot. It also has additional force multipliers from the HQ options for additional synergy, plus a 'help your buddies' overwatch mechanic. The writer of the book also seems to understand all the different types of opponents you might face during a 40K tournament, and therefore gave units options for skyfire, interceptor, and even stuff like hit and run. There's nothing wrong with having options for everything, as long as they cost points. All Tau players sacrifice something to be able to cram the stuff they want in. To be fair, a 40K codex doesn't get any better than this, and it probably never has.

Just because the other GW games designers don't even understand what synergy means, and have never, ever, played at any sorts of tournaments ever or are even aware what tournament lists look like, doesn't make the Tau a broken codex. How about the other designers look at their books and wonder why people don't consider them competitive or why people are using the units they are using? Phil Kelly (despite having played Skaven at a UK GT a decade ago) for example writes so utterly boring and trash books with no internal mechanisms whatsoever that it makes me cringe just thinking about it. Phil Kelly is a relic from an age where the only change in a codex update was the number of shots on an assault cannon and a psychic power or two. All of the units he has success with seem completely accidental, and the reason they bring the overall power level of the book up is because they're so blatantly underpriced compared to everything else that it just underlines the designer's incompetence in having any sorts of internal balance or cohesion. If the Serpent Shield wasn't what it was and Eldar didn't have the unintentional advantage of having a bunch of battle brothers on the allies matrix that book would be one of the laughing stocks of the edition alongside the CSM which is only good for Heldrakes.

You can't give all the credit for the tau codex synergy to the the new guy, markerlights have existed for 3 codexs for tau. So the "other GW games designers" do know what synergy is, at least for tau. As far as Phil Kelly's codexs having horrible internal balance, so does tau. No one takes the flyers, or auxiliaries, or stealth suits, or any tau vehicle that is not a skyray really in any competitive lists I have seen. Most of the special characters never see the table. Everybody is using riptides, tau commanders, broadsides, something with markerlights, and firewarriors. Hell if you didn't have to take troop units no one would bring firewarriors either. Also most of the new stuff for the army push it towards being less mobile and more a straight gunline, which honestly is boring to play against in any game. Not an overall improvement IMO.

Though as someone who has played tau for 3 codexs, the new guy still didn't fix my biggest issue with tau. I love the fluff for the army, love the models, but on the table top they just get boring to play. They have a one dimensional army that is working so dam well because the that one dimension is really good due to the core rules. Every game with tau plays the same, so much that I don't play the army that much due to being good at shooting and only shooting. I have to switch it up after playing tau for 3-4 games and play a different army like space marines but otherwise I just get board of the same thing every game.

 Therion wrote:

cyberjonesy wrote:

 Therion wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Posit wrote:
I think it's adorable that after all this time people are still giving GW the benefit of the doubt.

Look at the home-run codices that were Tau, Eldar, and to a lesser degree, Space Marines. We have all the reason in the world to believe that Tyranids would follow the trend of fun codices with useful and powerful units. I'm still not convinced this isn't true, but we won't know for sure until everyone interested has had the book and read for themselves the combos and unit synergies.

Call me naive, but i'm still optimistic that we'll get something at least as playable as Codex: Space Marines.

Calling the Eldar a home run codex is atrocious. Phil Kelly can't make a decently balanced book to save his life and is in my opinion the worst games designer on their payroll. Just because Eldar have won a few major tournaments getting single handedly carried by a 1000 point death star unit or spammed dedicated transports doesn't make the book any better, in fact it only makes it worse. Since so much stuff there sucks and wasn't fixed at all (or even attempted to be fixed) from the previous edition where they also sucked it would've been more logical just having everything suck. Eldar are just another CSM book, but their high end potential fits the current meta better.

Necron weren't a good book either, literally noone who ever plays at any sort of competitive events ever use anything else than Scythes, Wraiths and Annihilation Barges. 70% of the unit entries are gathering dust.

The guy who designed Tau however should be allowed to write all the 40K army books, since he clearly knows what armies need to have in order to compete in 6th edition. He gives options to deal with everything and charges a pretty accurately pin pointed points cost for each of those options. He failed on a couple units too, but maybe he's one of those Tau guys who just think Vespid and ugly mercenaries in general is a stupid idea.

I disagree. Tau is a really broken codex. while alot of thought has went into making exciting unit combos , game balance was broken in the process and now tau armies crushes every other armies.

You got it backwards. The Tau codex has an internal synergy mechanic in the markerlights that makes it interesting (you're forced to have your units work as a team), and the Codex has multiple useful units in every slot force organisation slot. It also has additional force multipliers from the HQ options for additional synergy, plus a 'help your buddies' overwatch mechanic. The writer of the book also seems to understand all the different types of opponents you might face during a 40K tournament, and therefore gave units options for skyfire, interceptor, and even stuff like hit and run. There's nothing wrong with having options for everything, as long as they cost points. All Tau players sacrifice something to be able to cram the stuff they want in. To be fair, a 40K codex doesn't get any better than this, and it probably never has.

Just because the other GW games designers don't even understand what synergy means, and have never, ever, played at any sorts of tournaments ever or are even aware what tournament lists look like, doesn't make the Tau a broken codex. How about the other designers look at their books and wonder why people don't consider them competitive or why people are using the units they are using? Phil Kelly (despite having played Skaven at a UK GT a decade ago) for example writes so utterly boring and trash books with no internal mechanisms whatsoever that it makes me cringe just thinking about it. He's a relic from an age where the only change in a codex update was the number of shots on an assault cannon and a psychic power or two. All of the units he has success with seem completely accidental, and the reason they bring the overall power level of the book up is because they're so blatantly underpriced compared to everything else that it just underlines the designer's incompetence in having any sorts of internal balance or cohesion. If the Serpent Shield wasn't what it was and Eldar didn't have the unintentional advantage of having a bunch of battle brothers on the allies matrix that book would be one of the laughing stocks of the edition alongside the CSM which is only good for Heldrakes.

THANK YOU. Crystallized my thoughts on the subject perfectly. Does the exalt button actually do anything? Because you have now been exalted.

Stand-alone, I think the Tau codex is easily the best of the edition in terms of fluff, internal balance, options, power level, and overall fun. It's the Allies system and supplements that open up room for abuse, and you can't blame Vetock for those.

Edit: Ok maybe I was a little over the top, Blood Hawk brings up some good points. But to me the Tau codex looks, feels, and plays like Tau, but I suppose it doesn't give you a lot of room to be adventurous.

It seems that people think "balanced" means a dex has at least three best options.

rollawaythestone wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
If current AG gives fleet+furious charge, and fleet is re-rolls to charge rolls, then what I see them doing is having AG give something useless like a +3" to run if you already have fleet.

Then what about Hormagaunts that already have Fleet, and already have +3 to Run with Bounding Leap?

They become low rent beasts. Reroll run roll then add 6 inches.

CalgarsPimpHand wrote:Edit: Ok maybe I was a little over the top, Blood Hawk brings up some good points. But to me the Tau codex looks, feels, and plays like Tau, but I suppose it doesn't give you a lot of room to be adventurous.

You weren't. Every codex will always have superior choices depending on how the meta looks like. The fact just is that Tau are different than everyone else in that they have so much more useful stuff to choose from than others. The book is also very adaptive and I'm sure will survive the entire edition as a competitive force, while many other armies are one new army book or rules supplement away from being sent to the trash can.

Blood Hawk wrote:Everybody is using riptides, tau commanders, broadsides, something with markerlights, and firewarriors

I'm the one who usually makes generalisations like these, but with Tau this is just incorrect. Everyone uses Riptides, you got that right, but the competitive amount varies from 2 to 4 and their equipment is in no way set in stone and many people use them differently. Likewise, not everyone uses the Tau Commander the same way (buff commander or shooty on his own) and it's feasible not using the Commander at all. I personally don't use Broadsides ever with Tau and go with the 2 or 3 Skyrays instead, and I don't use Fire Warriors, instead going with the Kroot and/or Crisis troops.

Manchu wrote:
It seems that people think "balanced" means a dex has at least three best options.

Actually yes. A truly balanced codex would offer a number of choices of war gear and each one would fulfill a different roll that was in line with their costs. A bad option that you will never take does not balance out a good option you will always take. Since not codex has really managed this it is not reasonable to expect it but it is still the ideal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MadmanMSU wrote:

Zookie wrote:

 pretre wrote:

15 for AG seems way too high (assuming it is furious charge and fleet like the rumors are saying) for a creature with fleet. It was only 10 last edition for MC and that included an initiative boost back in 5th. Either this is a very badly priced upgrade by about 10 points or AG will do something extra for creatures that already have fleet. My guess would be either grants the crusader rule or add 3 inches to charge rolls. Most likely crusader between the two though.

Your optimism is amusing, but not enough to overcome my cynicism.

Ah boo, the world has to many cynics as it is. Anyway you have to be an optimist to be a Tyranid player. If you were truly a cynic you would not be checking out the rumor posts and you would have ditched Tyranids for a Tau-Eldar list month ago

Manchu wrote:
It seems that people think "balanced" means a dex has at least three best options.

From my point of view it's a design flaw coming from all codexes. Troop choice have no kill potential and almost no strategical value anymore (unless they have a Str 7 weapon at the very least), which makes them completly useless (or almost) before all the new big toys coming out from GW since some years now (since the Trygon I guess). Add to that the last trend to flexibilize the army structure, with allies and more and more units (big ones, termagaunts will never be available in HS I'm pretty sure) who can be used in various position (mostly both HS and Elite). Just look at last GW battle report.
People here are, in my opinion, whining because they feel that with that trend, most of the standard units of the codex will be useless : ravener, warrior, lictor, hormagaunts, genestealer will most likely never be field in tournament play.

But I'm not sure the codex (from the rumors) will be so weak, since we now get elite MC (Haruspex and his friend), fast attack MC and cheaper MC all over the board (and especially the carnifex who might be a very good HS choice). We will just all have to play nidzilla.

I love playing Nidzilla, it's my favorite way to field bugs. However, if that's the ONLY build worth putting together in the new book i'll be disappointed.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I love playing Nidzilla, it's my favorite way to field bugs. However, if that's the ONLY build worth putting together in the new book i'll be disappointed.

180 termagants fits in under 721 points...Nidzilla will most definitely not be the only way to play this game.