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 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
Hive Crone is T5 W5 4+, and his Drool cannon is AP4 with no Torrent. Thanks GW.

Source? Do we have new pics up somewhere?

I wouldn't doubt it, stays close to the current Harpy statline and suits the probable costing we've been hearing.

Pretty much still pure win against everything but Broadsides.

 Redemption wrote:
Hive Crone is T5 W5 4+, and his Drool cannon is AP4 with no Torrent. Thanks GW.

Did you REALLY want/expect a copy paste of the Baleflamer?

ductvader wrote:Crone's abilities are supposed to be Vector Strike Oriented, Your Harpy is your gunbird.

Yeah, except with only a 24" movement, a ~4.5" base and having to keep the minimum distance of 1" from your enemy before and after movement means you have like a very short Vector Strike distance; you virtually have to be on top of the unit you want to Vector Strike at the start of your movement phase. I doubt you'll get the chance to do this often against a capable opponent.

tetrisphreak wrote:Source? Do we have new pics up somewhere?

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?40459-Copy-Of-Tyranid-Codex-In-Hand&p=382946&viewfull=1#post382946

 Redemption wrote:

ductvader wrote:Crone's abilities are supposed to be Vector Strike Oriented, Your Harpy is your gunbird.

Yeah, except with only a 24" movement, a ~4.5" base and having to keep the minimum distance of 1" from your enemy before and after movement means you have like a very short Vector Strike distance; you virtually have to be on top of the unit you want to Vector Strike at the start of your movement phase. I doubt you'll get the chance to do this often against a capable opponent.

tetrisphreak wrote:Source? Do we have new pics up somewhere?

http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?40459-Copy-Of-Tyranid-Codex-In-Hand&p=382946&viewfull=1#post382946

\

Area Denial is your friend. If you make a large section of the table a place where the enemy does not want to be, you are that much better at holding an objective there. Add in LOS blocking terrain and you've got a good thing going.

Backlash wrote:
We still havnt seen anything that denies access to biomancy. So as it stands we probably still have access.

If that post earlier about SwarmLord is true, I hope we can also give him wings!

Stormbreed wrote:

Backlash wrote:
We still havnt seen anything that denies access to biomancy. So as it stands we probably still have access.

If that post earlier about SwarmLord is true, I hope we can also give him wings!

What?

Swamlord is unique and can't be given anything...besides Tyrant Guard and a target...any target.

Well, any target depends on a lot. Currently the only thing keeping him from being swatted by other characters with EW + ID is having Iron Arm. How effective he is against those guys now is going to be heavilly dependant on what changes they made (obviously).

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
Hive Crone is T5 W5 4+, and his Drool cannon is AP4 with no Torrent. Thanks GW.

Did you REALLY want/expect a copy paste of the Baleflamer?

It also doesn't need torrent... a flamer template from anywhere on that giant oval is easy to place...and "unassailable" if flying.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Regarding Onslaught... don't forget that FMC's can run 2D6" with it. This means you can not only put a Flyrant, Harpy or Crone into the enemy deployment zone on turn 1, but it can easily be beside/behind vehicles AND allowed to fire. Also Adrenal Glands means Fleet for (F)MC's. Throw it on your Flyrant to re-roll that 2D6".

6E means Flying Nidzilla...

To further expand on your (well-made) point, the entire Hive Mind psychic power table is maledictions and/or blessings, aside from Warp Blast. This means that whatever you roll on your Tyrants, Tervigons, etc you'll be able to cast these buffs/debuffs without forgoing your shooting attacks, as in the past. For example, - paroxysm used to take up one of the hive tyrants shooting attacks. Now, it's only a D3 modifier (but even WS3 marines need 5's to hit a tyrant, and on average they'll be WS2 if the power goes off). It's also got double the previous range (well +6" if you factor in movement speed of a walking tyrant, or the same range if you factor in a winged tyrant, but i digress). Catalyst - is great. FNP on 2 units for the price of one! Too bad it's not guaranteed on anything. The Horror - a -2 Ld check will pin most backfield units (Ld 7-8) quite frequently. Even if you can't assault the turn you debuff them, you're preventing that unit from firing effectively in the following turn (target tau markerlights, or snipers on a quad gun, etc). In fact the horror works great during a turn in which flyers are about to arrive - you can pin the enemy unit with interceptor and skyfire (riptides are LD9, and not fearless - you can pin them 50% of the time). Then they're only snapfiring at your reserves.

I'm cautiously optimistic about this book - it WILL come down to the abilities of the units themselves coupled with accurate point costs for what they're capable of. I want a Hive Tyrant that can take on a Daemon Prince (not necessarily the swarmlord) and I think with the right upgrades that can be made to happen. We will see. It's just a few more days now but i can't wait to start making lists and test-rolling some scenarios with this new book.

I hate to be a skeptic, and I really like you guys thinking outside the box because what you said is kind of cool, but it seems like the quickest way possibly to throw away the most expensive unit in your army. After doing what you suggest, your Flyrant is now probably in range of every single unit in your opponents army, is not in swooping mode so can be shot at normally, can also be assaulted, and has only 4W with a 3+ save. I personally don't put Flyrants on the table without a Gargoyle shield (or Venomthrope in lower points levels) to provide cover while they advance. If you aren't going to be in range first turn you can reserve it for a turn if you are worried about it getting shot down while it's still gliding, if not, you wait behind your cover a turn longer before doing what a Flyrant does. In the situation that you aren't in range of anything to shoot at after advancing 12", seems to me that the sensible thing to do is hardly trying to sprint 12" past your cover to get some early side armor shots, leaving yourself in range and exposed in jump infantry mode to most likely everything your opponent put on the board. Flyrant will spend the rest of the game getting flanking shots wherever he wants, trying to do it before he's airborne seems like the best way to jeopardize this.

The problem with most the rollable powers is that if they do have uses, they seem very niche. Sure, you have found a good use for the Horror vs Tau gunlines and I commend you for it. Except when you roll it and Warp Lance vs Space Marines its a useless power + a power you can't cast. ONLY being able to ROLL on the Tyranid table, is very different to trading out your 2 powers chosen from a list of 4 choices, for the chance at rolling for something better to cast once a turn, which happens very consistently on the Biomancy table. Arguing that some of the weaker powers on the Nid table aren't useless, does not make this change a good one. It's fine to do damage control by finding uses for the new powers we have now, just so long as you guys are aware that this is indeed a massive nerf, even if they aren't TOTALLY useless.

BTW the Psychic Shriek is also witchfire (Nova)

 ductvader wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
Hive Crone is T5 W5 4+, and his Drool cannon is AP4 with no Torrent. Thanks GW.

Did you REALLY want/expect a copy paste of the Baleflamer?

It also doesn't need torrent... a flamer template from anywhere on that giant oval is easy to place...and "unassailable" if flying.

I guess we're all assuming it's a flamer template and not a large/small blast weapon...?

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Redemption wrote:
Hive Crone is T5 W5 4+, and his Drool cannon is AP4 with no Torrent. Thanks GW.

Did you REALLY want/expect a copy paste of the Baleflamer?

It also doesn't need torrent... a flamer template from anywhere on that giant oval is easy to place...and "unassailable" if flying.

I guess we're all assuming it's a flamer template and not a large/small blast weapon...?

Fair point, it is called a cannon.

Someone on BOLS is saying that Shrikes are in! So we'll see. Of course, they could use a points break, and based on the Warriors that might not be happening. :( Still, access to fleet makes them a smidge more interesting. MCs also get more interesting with fleet, as do Primes. Primes look like they might be one of the winners in the new book. Wings for primes are probably too much to hope for, though. :(

 SHUPPET wrote:

BTW the Psychic Shriek is also witchfire (Nova)

Ah, yes. Forgot that one - but as it doesn't roll to-hit and the effect is pretty good (2d6+2 -leadership in wounds with no saves on multiple units) I'd still be okay with rolling it on a flyrant.

Also Swooping MC's can run -that's where the 2d6 comes from. So the crones, harpies, and flyrants we are hypothetically casting onslaught on WILL be on skyfire mode, and until they get grounded get a lot of snap-shot attention i'm sure. But that's no different than now, so it shouldn't be shocking. I've lost 2 flying hive tyrants, in swoop mode, in 1 turn to guardian spam eldar before. it sucks, but it happens.

Edited to fix quotebox.

 gorgon wrote:
Someone on BOLS is saying that Shrikes are in! So we'll see. Of course, they could use a points break, and based on the Warriors that might not be happening. :( Still, access to fleet makes them a smidge more interesting. MCs also get more interesting with fleet, as do Primes. Primes look like they might be one of the winners in the new book. Wings for primes are probably too much to hope for, though. :(

I hope not, honestly, it was the only thing on my wishlist for a new codex.

I would have been perfectly fine with a copy/pasted book and Prime Wings...so...I ran the Parasite a lot.

 ductvader wrote:

Stormbreed wrote:

Backlash wrote:
We still havnt seen anything that denies access to biomancy. So as it stands we probably still have access.

If that post earlier about SwarmLord is true, I hope we can also give him wings!

What?

Swamlord is unique and can't be given anything...besides Tyrant Guard and a target...any target.

You mean that dead thing over there, right?

 Therion wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Umm. The Army Requisition was their idea. It isn't like this blurb says they invented Army Builders...

Finally, the Force Requisition feature allows you to organise your Tyranids collection into an army ready for the tabletop. Just input the units you’d like to use and what weapons you’d like to equip them with, and the Force Requisition feature works out your points for you.

What's the difference between an army builder that allows you to build a Tyranid army using the latest codex and the Force Requisition/Army Requisition? He said it allows you to choose a unit and the weapons you want for it and the feature works out the points costs. So what's the difference other than the name, being their idea and all?

You're the only one who said that GW was saying they invented the idea for Army Builders. Everyone else is acknowledging that they just added an army builder to the digidex.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

BTW the Psychic Shriek is also witchfire (Nova)

Ah, yes. Forgot that one - but as it doesn't roll to-hit and the effect is pretty good (2d6+2 -leadership in wounds with no saves on multiple units) I'd still be okay with rolling it on a flyrant.

Also Swooping MC's can run -that's where the 2d6 comes from. So the crones, harpies, and flyrants we are hypothetically casting onslaught on WILL be on skyfire mode, and until they get grounded get a lot of snap-shot attention i'm sure. But that's no different than now, so it shouldn't be shocking. I've lost 2 flying hive tyrants, in swoop mode, in 1 turn to guardian spam eldar before. it sucks, but it happens.

Edited to fix quotebox.

FMC's cannot start the game in Swoop mode :S which is why I assumed you guys realised you were still in JI mode while talking about turn 1 running and gunning with Onslaught. And by turn two Onslaught is useless because they have moved up to 24" plus the 12" jump infantry move from turn 1 so they are striking out just as far as in your example, without needing to roll double 6's =). Which they couldn't do regardless, because they cannot be in Swoop mode turn anyway. So yeah your theories for Onslaught is flawed to say the least.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, on your subject of of Psychic Shriek, here's a quote I made earlier.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Psychic Scream, which at the cost of firing a weapon is REALLY situational (it is highly reliant on opponents army choice, as well as both of your positioning choices, and even then has a roll to cast, roll to deny, and a roll for leadership to deal damage), but is not of absolutely NO use (I mean it will do more to a Fire Warrior squad than 6 devourer shots)

Follow quotelink for a full paragraph from me on how the new table has affected the Flyrant (aka our #1 caster).

 SHUPPET wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

BTW the Psychic Shriek is also witchfire (Nova)

Ah, yes. Forgot that one - but as it doesn't roll to-hit and the effect is pretty good (2d6+2 -leadership in wounds with no saves on multiple units) I'd still be okay with rolling it on a flyrant.

Also Swooping MC's can run -that's where the 2d6 comes from. So the crones, harpies, and flyrants we are hypothetically casting onslaught on WILL be on skyfire mode, and until they get grounded get a lot of snap-shot attention i'm sure. But that's no different than now, so it shouldn't be shocking. I've lost 2 flying hive tyrants, in swoop mode, in 1 turn to guardian spam eldar before. it sucks, but it happens.

Edited to fix quotebox.

FMC's cannot start the game in Swoop mode :S which is why I assumed you guys realised you were still in JI mode while talking about turn 1 running and gunning with Onslaught. And by turn two Onslaught is useless because they have moved up to 24" plus the 12" jump infantry move from turn 1 so they are striking out just as far as in your example, without needing to roll double 6's =). Which they couldn't do regardless, because they cannot be in Swoop mode turn anyway. So yeah your theories for Onslaught is flawed to say the least.

Uh, wow. You've got a gross misinterpretation of the rules.

Turn 1 - Flying tryrant is in Jump Infantry mode, it's the start of the game.
I cast Onslaught, targeting itself. It may now run/shoot.
Movement phase, I engage Swooping mode and move 24". Tyrant is now airborne.
Shooting Phase, it runs 2d6" (with fleet if adrenals were upgraded), then fires off the twin linked devourers
Profit

You START the game on the ground, but in the movement phase the FMC can go to swoop mode no matter what turn it is.

 pretre wrote:

 Therion wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Umm. The Army Requisition was their idea. It isn't like this blurb says they invented Army Builders...

Finally, the Force Requisition feature allows you to organise your Tyranids collection into an army ready for the tabletop. Just input the units you’d like to use and what weapons you’d like to equip them with, and the Force Requisition feature works out your points for you.

What's the difference between an army builder that allows you to build a Tyranid army using the latest codex and the Force Requisition/Army Requisition? He said it allows you to choose a unit and the weapons you want for it and the feature works out the points costs. So what's the difference other than the name, being their idea and all?

You're the only one who said that GW was saying they invented the idea for Army Builders. Everyone else is acknowledging that they just added an army builder to the digidex.

Everyone except you of course. If the army requisition is in fact an army builder by a different name, then it's not their idea, contrary to what you actually replied to me.

I wouldn't doubt it, stays close to the current Harpy statline and suits the probable costing we've been hearing.

Pretty much still pure win against everything but Broadsides.

I'm not going to tell people to stop jumping to conclusions, but people are making judgments on this book based on the wargear and psychic powers list. So, we know that the wargear isn't that great and the psychic powers are hit and miss (some very good some very bad). That still doesn't tell us anything about the power level of this book. As far as I've been able to discern we still don't know the details for synapse, shadow in the warp, any of the important points cost, weapon stats, force organisation structure & allies, fortifications, etc. Basically we have nothing verified on any of the important stuff.

Frankly I'm wondering if these scanned leaks are sponsored by GW because they're so obnoxiously unclear. If you're posting full pictures of GW's unreleased copyrighted material why not post the entire codex then? It literally takes a person less than two minutes to take pics of every relevant rules page and then hosting them on a pics dump.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
You START the game on the ground, but in the movement phase the FMC can go to swoop mode no matter what turn it is.

Every other week I have to explain this to someone who is stuck on the flier rules.

I think people are running to extremes here. Either dooming a codex they have not read yet, or clinging to a desperate hope that there is rule that has been totally off all rumor radars that that will make the Tyranids into the top codex of 6th edition.

To those who are depressed or angry about what we are seeing keep in mind that most codexes have 3 or 4 MVPs that are the glue of the army. The rest fill niche roles for how person wishes to tailor their army. Units continually change roles from edition to edition and codex to codex. So unit that was an MVP before might be more of a support unit this edition. It just means you have to reshuffle your army. Perhaps tervigons will go from "cram as many as you can into an army" to "1 to 2 tervigons are a good support choice." It does not mean that tyranids are not competitive anymore, just that the old tactics and builds are not competitive anymore.

To those who are holding out for a yet unknown rule that will fix every disappointment the leaked rules have shown you. Just realize that is not going to happen. The codex cannot be all things to all people. Everyone will have a different view of a "dream codex." Some people want to see a return of stealer shock, other want a list that lets you push Nidzilla to the limits. Others want a pure swarm that can be viable without MCs, and yet others want to see a return to the mutable stats of 4th edition or a warrior spam list. But in the end if you have very narrow expectations of what the codex will or should be your just setting yourself up to be discouraged.(It's like dating. You are much better off to get to try know a person and see if you like them rather that hunt for "the one" based on a preconceived check list your in your mind).

In the end if you really want to enjoy the next few days and weeks learning the codex don't focus on what you think it should be. But try to learn what it is how it works and how it does not. It will be a lot more fun that way, and after all it is a game. If it is not fun for you then what it the point?

Forgeworld are getting in on the act with a Tyranid Bundle. No new models, ripper swarm and winged ripper bundles. Small saving of around 10% or so on things like the winged rippers - 27 of 'em for £52.50.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Forge__World_Bundles?page=1


And the fact they still do the warrior wings is further confirmation for any doubters that Shrikes are still with us.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Turn 1 - Flying tryrant is in Jump Infantry mode, it's the start of the game.
I cast Onslaught, targeting itself. It may now run/shoot.
Movement phase, I engage Swooping mode and move 24". Tyrant is now airborne.
Shooting Phase, it runs 2d6" (with fleet if adrenals were upgraded), then fires off the twin linked devourers
Profit

You START the game on the ground, but in the movement phase the FMC can go to swoop mode no matter what turn it is.

This actually does give some very viable use for onslaught, and I take back my past statement. I'll be definitely attempting this if I roll Onslaught.

Eldercaveman wrote:Did you REALLY want/expect a copy paste of the Baleflamer?

I had hoped for Torrent at least, yes, I'm fine with the S6 and AP4. Considering it's about the same cost as a Heldrake but slower and more fragile, that wouldn't really be overpowering would it? Hopefully the Tentaclids are useful.

tetrisphreak wrote:
Area Denial is your friend. If you make a large section of the table a place where the enemy does not want to be, you are that much better at holding an objective there. Add in LOS blocking terrain and you've got a good thing going.

Fair point, but you don't really need the Hive Crone for that; a Winged Hive Tyrant would do the same job without being so fragile, and, depending on what the Tentaclids turn out to be, have better range weapons to boot.

tetrisphreak wrote:I guess we're all assuming it's a flamer template and not a large/small blast weapon...?

Didn't one of the first leaks (WD or that Korean guy?) mention it's a template weapon? Can't remember the exact source.

Did this post yet?

via anonymous over on 4chan
Bio Artefacts of the Tyranids
1.The Maw-Claws of Thyrax- S: user AP5 Melee, Assimilate (can give preferred enemy), rending
2.The Norn Crown- Increases synapse 6"
3.The Miasma Cannon
Spit: Rang 36" S1 AP4 Assault 1, blast, poisoned 2+
Spray: Template S1 AP4 Assault 1, poisoned 2+
4.The Ymgarl Factor- Can choose a new ability every assault phase, Slashing Claw, Tentacled Limbs, Protective Carapace
5. The Reaper of Obliterax- S+1 AP3 Melee, Life Drain (rolls of 6 have instant death), Shred, Swiftstrike (+3 init)

Powers of the Hive Mind
Primaris: Dominion-6" additional synapse
1. Catalyst : FNP
2. The Horror: pinning test
3. Onslaught: Unit can run and shoot
4. Paroxysm: Targets WS and BS lowered
5. Psychic Scream: Nova power; 2d6+2 vs ldrship or take difference in wounds
6. Warp Blast: Burst 24" S5 AP3 blast, Lance 18" S10 AP2 lance

Biomorphs
Acid Blood- Initiative check or take damage
Acid Maw-sacrifice attacks for a single S5 Ap2 attack
Adrenal Glands-fleet, furious charge
Blinding venom-sacrifice attacks for S3 melee blind and poisoned 6+ attack
Regeneration: 4+ to regen
Toxic Miasma: suffer additional hits in melee
Flesh Hooks and Spine Banks: grenades with shooting attack
Toxin sacs: poisoned special rule
Wings: becomes flying monstrous creature
Tail Biomorphs: Bone Mace, Prehensile Pincer, Thresther Scythe, Toxin Spike

Pretre, we have the actual scans a few pages back in this thread.

pg 108 has the scanned pages.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Pretre, we have the actual scans a few pages back in this thread.

pg 107 i think?

Yup but now people cant say they missed it haha!

That guy 'answering questions' on Bell of Lost Souls seems to be full of it. Another one of these mysterious posters who get 25 detailed questions and then answer 1 of them in as confusing and contradictory manner as possible. I wouldn't believe a word.