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 tetrisphreak wrote:
I love playing Nidzilla, it's my favorite way to field bugs. However, if that's the ONLY build worth putting together in the new book i'll be disappointed.

How come? You've already declared that a 1000 point death star that needs allies to function and one vehicle with a broken special rule is all that it takes to make an army book a home run, so surely Nidzilla with 5 different types of big monsters would be a baseball idiom for the ages

If that Genestealer / The Horror / Pinning thing turns out to be true it could be pretty amazing. Not only could it be used to neutralise nearby units when outflanking, but I'm sure you can dish it out from other units. Imagine a Hive Tyrant using it to clear a path for a Hormaguant wave, or the Swarmlord suppressing a unit it wants to charge itself.

 ductvader wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I love playing Nidzilla, it's my favorite way to field bugs. However, if that's the ONLY build worth putting together in the new book i'll be disappointed.

180 termagants fits in under 721 points...Nidzilla will most definitely not be the only way to play this game.

Not if they kill themselves

 pretre wrote:

As if they hid the points costs of the models (and the toxin sacs/AG)... COME ON.

 xttz wrote:
If that Genestealer / The Horror / Pinning thing turns out to be true it could be pretty amazing. Not only could it be used to neutralise nearby units when outflanking, but I'm sure you can dish it out from other units. Imagine a Hive Tyrant using it to clear a path for a Hormaguant wave, or the Swarmlord suppressing a unit it wants to charge itself.

Or you just run into the same problem EVERY other pinning ability suffers from.. Fearless and stubborn or vehicles. Basing a strategy on pinning is an easy way to lose a game

WhiteDog wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I love playing Nidzilla, it's my favorite way to field bugs. However, if that's the ONLY build worth putting together in the new book i'll be disappointed.

180 termagants fits in under 721 points...Nidzilla will most definitely not be the only way to play this game.

Not if they kill themselves

Well, you've yet to add the 1200+ points of synapse creatures and other infantry that can eat your face as well.

 Therion wrote:

CalgarsPimpHand wrote:Edit: Ok maybe I was a little over the top, Blood Hawk brings up some good points. But to me the Tau codex looks, feels, and plays like Tau, but I suppose it doesn't give you a lot of room to be adventurous.

You weren't. Every codex will always have superior choices depending on how the meta looks like. The fact just is that Tau are different than everyone else in that they have so much more useful stuff to choose from than others. The book is also very adaptive and I'm sure will survive the entire edition as a competitive force, while many other armies are one new army book or rules supplement away from being sent to the trash can.

Blood Hawk wrote:Everybody is using riptides, tau commanders, broadsides, something with markerlights, and firewarriors

I'm the one who usually makes generalisations like these, but with Tau this is just incorrect. Everyone uses Riptides, you got that right, but the competitive amount varies from 2 to 4 and their equipment is in no way set in stone and many people use them differently. Likewise, not everyone uses the Tau Commander the same way (buff commander or shooty on his own) and it's feasible not using the Commander at all. I personally don't use Broadsides ever with Tau and go with the 2 or 3 Skyrays instead, and I don't use Fire Warriors, instead going with the Kroot and/or Crisis troops.

Therion-

An easy button army does not make it the best. Many of the real/veteran Tau players stopped playing Tau because of the horrible job Vetcock did with the book.

A stand and shoot immobile gunline is noy Tau. That is IG....and thats what Vetcock did, he turned the Tau into xenos IG but with a super easy cheat mode built in.

Now I can forgive Vetty's hack job on the Tau to some extent in that it is obvious that GW wants to force players to pay another $50 in order to get the last 2 pages of their codex that allows for more than just a mono-build army/playstyle. Point here is that the Farsihht expansion gave the Tau there mobility and reliable backfield penetration. Though, the farsight enclave only removes the Tau's current static gunline playstyle. It does nothing to fix the unit imbalace created in the core book.

Imo,
It is ok of you like the Tau as they are...
It is ok to like easy button non-challenging armies....

It is not ok to call the current Tau codex "good" or "balanced"

Nor is it right to give Vetcock credit for the base design philosophy
of necessary synergy. Tau had markerlights and synergy before he
was ever hired
Vetcock gave tau the xv104"riptide"(doesn't follow tau naming
convention) and broadsides ruined by being made into missile
spam units.
Vetty gave us a codex hyper focused on exploiting 6th eds shooty
(Vehicles are made of paper) rule set. This makes the Tau rather
fragile in the long run. A new edition or supplement that does away
with "hull points" or that allows reserves to assault will show this.

On topic:
I hope that there will be a reliable lictor leading disruptive strike in
our opponents backfield and a way to run a genestealer cult type
build.

Edit for topic

Tau posters...please create a Tau thread.

 Therion wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I love playing Nidzilla, it's my favorite way to field bugs. However, if that's the ONLY build worth putting together in the new book i'll be disappointed.

How come? You've already declared that a 1000 point death star that needs allies to function and one vehicle with a broken special rule is all that it takes to make an army book a home run, so surely Nidzilla with 5 different types of big monsters would be a baseball idiom for the ages

I see what you did there --

I don't see Eldar as "jetseer council" only codex. Yes, that's the 2++ reroll list that wins GT's, but that book has warp spiders, wave serpents, warwalkers, battle focus, EVERY GUN WITH RENDING, yadda yadda yadda. It's NOT a one-trick pony as you presume above. And it regularly gives my tyranids incredible amounts of trouble every time i face it. So maybe there's bias there, but i still feel overall it's a very strong codex. As is Tau. As is Daemons. And to a lesser degree, Codex Marines has it's good units too.

It occurs to me that Adrenal Glands granting Fleet would be at least a small benefit to Primes and Warriors.

Critics of the Eldar codex don't seem to understand the difference between "optimal" and "viable". JetSeer deathstar+wave serpant spam+wraithknights might be the most competitive build, but that doesn't mean that warp spiders, vaul's wrath platforms, Wraithguard and other units in the codex aren't viable. In any other codex they'd be considered damn good, competitive, almost auto-takes in fact, but it just so happens that there are even better options available for Eldar.

This isn't the same dynamic you see in, say, CSM. Mutilators aren't just "not optimal", they downright suck. Even in a beer n' pretzels game, if you're building your list around the majority of units in CSM that aren't plague marines, heldrakes and spawn, you're at a disadvantage even against casual beer n' pretzel lists from other, better written armies.

Thus the difference in quality between codices. Eldar and Tau are the best written codices of this edition because many of their not-optimal units are at least competitive. You can't say that about every 6th edition codex we've gotten though.

Well, at least one good thing from the stealer page, is that the broodlord is "add a broodlord" not "upgrade to a broodlord".

So, hopefully he won't be insanely expensive.

 ductvader wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I love playing Nidzilla, it's my favorite way to field bugs. However, if that's the ONLY build worth putting together in the new book i'll be disappointed.

180 termagants fits in under 721 points...Nidzilla will most definitely not be the only way to play this game.

That right there sounds like the third circle of hell. I don't like watching models die, be it 4 points or 400, so between moving them.. trying to keep them 2" apart and watching them die in droves.... I think I might just jump out a window.

 Roci wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I love playing Nidzilla, it's my favorite way to field bugs. However, if that's the ONLY build worth putting together in the new book i'll be disappointed.

180 termagants fits in under 721 points...Nidzilla will most definitely not be the only way to play this game.

That right there sounds like the third circle of hell. I don't like watching models die, be it 4 points or 400, so between moving them.. trying to keep them 2" apart and watching them die in droves.... I think I might just jump out a window.

Well if you're a great opponent, you'll just let me move the back models to the front to save time (when they're all the same)...is there a term for that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

WhiteDog wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I love playing Nidzilla, it's my favorite way to field bugs. However, if that's the ONLY build worth putting together in the new book i'll be disappointed.

180 termagants fits in under 721 points...Nidzilla will most definitely not be the only way to play this game.

Not if they kill themselves

Really, just add 4 primes, done. Synapse is safe for the game.

Those upgrade costs for a broodlord can't be right, Thats WAY to much

WhiteDog wrote:
Troop choice have no kill potential and almost no strategical value anymore (unless they have a Str 7 weapon at the very least), which makes them completly useless (or almost) before all the new big toys coming out from GW since some years now (since the Trygon I guess).

I think you're on to something there. Design around troop choices is really hampered by the "entitlement" status they have as required by the FOC and scoring rules. GW knows players simply must buy troops. And they haven't been doing much with troop models either.

Didn't see it mentioned here, but seems the ipad version of the codex comes with an army organizer in it:

Finally, the Force Requisition feature allows you to organise your Tyranids collection into an army ready for the tabletop. Just input the units you’d like to use and what weapons you’d like to equip them with, and the Force Requisition feature works out your points for you.

From http://www.blacklibrary.com/Blog/The-Great-Devourer.html

 gorgon wrote:
It occurs to me that Adrenal Glands granting Fleet would be at least a small benefit to Primes and Warriors.

And probably pretty fun for a Carnifex brood... charging with fleet and S10 attacks plus HoW? Woop woop

Zookie wrote:
15 for AG seems way too high (assuming it is furious charge and fleet like the rumors are saying) for a creature with fleet.

This is my concern, that they've gone and created a biomorph that grants two abilities (F-Charge/Fleet), and then allowed something that already has Fleet to take it without considering that the unit only gets 50% the benefit for 100% of the cost. A bit like a Ghostglaive (or whatever it's called) on a Wraithknight.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Zookie wrote:
15 for AG seems way too high (assuming it is furious charge and fleet like the rumors are saying) for a creature with fleet.

This is my concern, that they've gone and created a biomorph that grants two abilities (F-Charge/Fleet), and then allowed something that already has Fleet to take it without considering that the unit only gets 50% the benefit for 100% of the cost. A bit like a Ghostglaive (or whatever it's called) on a Wraithknight.

Some home run games designing by Phil Kelly right there. The options on the Wraitknight are laughably priced, but we can bet our asses that an apologist exists that will jump in and try to reason with that madness.

Didn't see it mentioned here, but seems the ipad version of the codex comes with an army organizer in it:

Isn't that just a new name for an army builder? GW makes up a new name and calls it their idea?

Umm. The Army Requisition was their idea. It isn't like this blurb says they invented Army Builders...

Finally, the Force Requisition feature allows you to organise your Tyranids collection into an army ready for the tabletop. Just input the units you’d like to use and what weapons you’d like to equip them with, and the Force Requisition feature works out your points for you.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Zookie wrote:
15 for AG seems way too high (assuming it is furious charge and fleet like the rumors are saying) for a creature with fleet.

This is my concern, that they've gone and created a biomorph that grants two abilities (F-Charge/Fleet), and then allowed something that already has Fleet to take it without considering that the unit only gets 50% the benefit for 100% of the cost. ...

Yeah, I worry about that as well.

I was really worried about the last few books and they turned out pretty good (a bit of internal balance problems, but not terribly so).

here is hoping.

Anyone have an actual link to the thread the guy with the codex is in?

davethepak wrote:
Anyone have an actual link to the thread the guy with the codex is in?

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?387276-Just-confused-Is-the-new-tyranid-codex-not-on-official-sales-yet
Not that he's posting that much, but we'll probably have a more verbose source sooner or later.

 pretre wrote:
Umm. The Army Requisition was their idea. It isn't like this blurb says they invented Army Builders...

Finally, the Force Requisition feature allows you to organise your Tyranids collection into an army ready for the tabletop. Just input the units you’d like to use and what weapons you’d like to equip them with, and the Force Requisition feature works out your points for you.

What's the difference between an army builder that allows you to build a Tyranid army using the latest codex and the Force Requisition/Army Requisition? He said it allows you to choose a unit and the weapons you want for it and the feature works out the points costs. So what's the difference other than the name, being their idea and all?

IF the rumor is true about Carnifexs being able to attack a transport and the contents then I bet you the HOW (ram transport with shoulder) hits are for transport and his actual attacks are for the contents.

 Therion wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Umm. The Army Requisition was their idea. It isn't like this blurb says they invented Army Builders...

Finally, the Force Requisition feature allows you to organise your Tyranids collection into an army ready for the tabletop. Just input the units you’d like to use and what weapons you’d like to equip them with, and the Force Requisition feature works out your points for you.

What's the difference between an army builder that allows you to build a Tyranid army using the latest codex and the Force Requisition/Army Requisition? He said it allows you to choose a unit and the weapons you want for it and the feature works out the points costs. So what's the difference other than the name?

Well, one could assume the tool would be updated at the same time as the codex if required.

 Therion wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Umm. The Army Requisition was their idea. It isn't like this blurb says they invented Army Builders...

Finally, the Force Requisition feature allows you to organise your Tyranids collection into an army ready for the tabletop. Just input the units you’d like to use and what weapons you’d like to equip them with, and the Force Requisition feature works out your points for you.

What's the difference between an army builder that allows you to build a Tyranid army using the latest codex and the Force Requisition/Army Requisition? He said it allows you to choose a unit and the weapons you want for it and the feature works out the points costs. So what's the difference other than the name, being their idea and all?

The Army Requisition automatically interprets list building in a RAI fashion, so even if something such as the SM Chapter Relics debate comes up, and the force requisition says you can, then you can, as it was designed to allow this. Army Builder or other third party builders can only work from RAW or their own interpretation.

 CoteazRox wrote:

 Therion wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Umm. The Army Requisition was their idea. It isn't like this blurb says they invented Army Builders...

Finally, the Force Requisition feature allows you to organise your Tyranids collection into an army ready for the tabletop. Just input the units you’d like to use and what weapons you’d like to equip them with, and the Force Requisition feature works out your points for you.

What's the difference between an army builder that allows you to build a Tyranid army using the latest codex and the Force Requisition/Army Requisition? He said it allows you to choose a unit and the weapons you want for it and the feature works out the points costs. So what's the difference other than the name?

Well, one could assume the tool would be updated at the same time as the codex if required.

Excuse me if I'm too curious but what do you mean by that? If the tool is integrated to the digital codex purchase, are you saying you expect them to update digical codices whenever necessary? Are you expecting them to change points costs of those weapon options and units? Are you expecting GW to head to an era where they 'patch' their armies power levels? Does this mean that printed codices are going to go the way of the dodo?

To me it sounds like an army builder that GW tries to re-brand and call their own just like they do with everything else. As far as updating is concerned I'm fairly sure the next update will come in the form of a new codex in the next edition of the game and it won't be free.

 Deadshot wrote:
The Army Requisition automatically interprets list building in a RAI fashion, so even if something such as the SM Chapter Relics debate comes up, and the force requisition says you can, then you can, as it was designed to allow this. Army Builder or other third party builders can only work from RAW or their own interpretation.

That is pretty useful. So basically you can show up with a digital, verified list if there's a shady rule that happens to have been interpreted in your favour, by the unpaid intern who coded the Army Requisition. Or if there's a shady rule that hasn't been interpreted in your favour, you can do an old-fashioned typed army list and printed codex, and just argue your case, as is traditional.

 Therion wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Umm. The Army Requisition was their idea. It isn't like this blurb says they invented Army Builders...

Finally, the Force Requisition feature allows you to organise your Tyranids collection into an army ready for the tabletop. Just input the units you’d like to use and what weapons you’d like to equip them with, and the Force Requisition feature works out your points for you.

What's the difference between an army builder that allows you to build a Tyranid army using the latest codex and the Force Requisition/Army Requisition? He said it allows you to choose a unit and the weapons you want for it and the feature works out the points costs. So what's the difference other than the name, being their idea and all?

My latest ipad codex was necrons so I have not used it personally, but one of the guys in my group has the latest books, and while its kind of neat, they say it has a ton of drawbacks - like not being able to print out or export lists.

Also, supposedly they have been wrong before....humans make products, and they can make mistakes.