Tyranid Release in January: GW pre-orders up, discussion starts pg 80

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**gorgon**

Shingen wrote:
Defo getting more Venomthhropes if they give shrouded. Lictors with Stealth in that bubble have a 2+ cover save and can only be snapshotted at, that's a massive + on the survival front.

Given that Lictors tend to operate forward while Venomthropes will be moving out of your deployment zone, this will be a hard combo to pull off, methinks.

Lictors getting Infiltrate, however, finally makes their Pheromone Trails more useful. And going to ground in area terrain or ruins will get you your 2+ cover save.

**ductvader**

buddha wrote:
(sigh) my tyranids have sat on my shelf since the start of 5th edition. I guess there they shall remain for another codex cycle. Sadly, I can't claim the sky is falling since I think it fell already.

(Really though, 4+ save on harpy/crone!? Its not like the quad gun is the most prevalent skyfire weapon in the game or anything; geeze that is boneheaded)

Why's this? Because there's a bunch of complainers out there, many (but not all) of which know nothing of tyranid synergy and strengths.

I'd hold your judgement. Codex wide 20% points reductions almost guarantee competetiveness by itself. Not to mention many of the fun new toys we're already hearing about and the many toys we've yet to see for ourselves.

I currently have no trouble beating any army but Tau, and with 120% more gants I have no doubts about our strength.

**Roci**

Plumbumbarum wrote:
This is the last time I pre order from GW, and not because of power level but because the new codex seem castrated for the sake of supplements and dataslates. I like those as a way to add stuff down the road but as kind of 1st day DLC, this is a new level of offensive. Truth be told, the more blatant cash grabs they become, the more pdfs will be downloaded instead of bought.

Keep the codex and return anything else you ordered. I'm fairly certain that wouldn't be to much of an issue, that is what I am doing. I will wait a few months and see what else pops up. I only ever really bought enough to field the dbl flyrant build anyway, so it isn't all that bad really.

**ductvader**

pretre wrote:
Plumbumbarum wrote:
This is the last time I pre order from GW, and not because of power level but because the new codex seem castrated for the sake of supplements and dataslates

"It's too early to be crying about this. Maybe next month all your tears will be valid." - Redbeard

Seriously, wait for the book to be in your hands before giving up on it. We had this same problem with Codex: Eldar. Everyone was crying doom and gloom and now look where we are. Or, and this was hilarious, the cries of OMG OP before the last Tyranid codex that turned out to be completely overblown.

Give it a week.

^+1

**gorgon**

pretre wrote:
Plumbumbarum wrote:
This is the last time I pre order from GW, and not because of power level but because the new codex seem castrated for the sake of supplements and dataslates

"It's too early to be crying about this. Maybe next month all your tears will be valid." - Redbeard

Seriously, wait for the book to be in your hands before giving up on it. We had this same problem with Codex: Eldar. Everyone was crying doom and gloom and now look where we are. Or, and this was hilarious, the cries of OMG OP before the last Tyranid codex that turned out to be completely overblown.

Give it a week.

The mood around here after the 4th edition Tyranid codex hit was much the same, and for more than a week. Of course, that book WAS flawed. But most players got over the flaws after they realized how strong Nidzilla was.

**Bloodhorror**

GG games workshop...

GG...

**Plumbumbarum**

pretre wrote:
Plumbumbarum wrote:
This is the last time I pre order from GW, and not because of power level but because the new codex seem castrated for the sake of supplements and dataslates

"It's too early to be crying about this. Maybe next month all your tears will be valid." - Redbeard

Seriously, wait for the book to be in your hands before giving up on it. We had this same problem with Codex: Eldar. Everyone was crying doom and gloom and now look where we are. Or, and this was hilarious, the cries of OMG OP before the last Tyranid codex that turned out to be completely overblown.

Give it a week.

I hear you but just mycetic spores removal is bad and I see nothing to make up for this. I mean Tyranids are supposed to be outworldy smart but hardly can do anything more than walking the board getting shot? They will loose much of the ingame scare factor (and that is really cinematic, not some rule to force circle fights every 2 turns) if you can't throw zoanthropes or carnifexes around, not to mention Doom which was awesome as a means to see pale faces when you were throwing the scatter dice.

I can forgive overpriced units, I can't forgive removing tactical options. I'll wait ofc but mostly what I'm hoping for now is good art in the book.

**AesSedai**

Reading these leaks makes me want to laugh. Looks like the new monsters are lame--why are people saying that its a "buy more kits" philosophy in action? I was pumped to buy 2 crones and 2 haruspex kits; now I'm almost certainly not.

The codex got worse. Same problems with more mediocre units. If an army is a tool box, it seems we have 15 different wrenches but we need a screwdriver.

I'm looking forward to a couple things. One, the tactical challenge of building a good list with new units. Two, vanguard dataslate. Overall, a disappointing day for nid players and 40k enthusiasts who value varied playing environments. Also, WHAHAaaa! The sky is falling!! Now all you people who cite the eldar dex yadda yadda can write this post off.

**ductvader**

Plumbumbarum wrote:
pretre wrote:
Plumbumbarum wrote:
This is the last time I pre order from GW, and not because of power level but because the new codex seem castrated for the sake of supplements and dataslates

"It's too early to be crying about this. Maybe next month all your tears will be valid." - Redbeard

Seriously, wait for the book to be in your hands before giving up on it. We had this same problem with Codex: Eldar. Everyone was crying doom and gloom and now look where we are. Or, and this was hilarious, the cries of OMG OP before the last Tyranid codex that turned out to be completely overblown.

Give it a week.

I hear you but just mycetic spores removal is bad and I see nothing to make up for this. I mean Tyranids are supposed to be outworldy smart but hardly can do anything more than walking the board getting shot? They will loose much of the ingame scare factor (and that is really cinematic, not some rule to force circle fights every 2 turns) if you can't throw zoanthropes or carnifexes around, not to mention Doom which was awesome as a means to see pale faces when you were throwing the scatter dice.

I can forgive overpriced units, I can't forgive removing tactical options. I'll wait ofc but mostly what I'm hoping for now is good art in the book.

Some things are necessary for game balance. Look at GKs, no pods there either...but both still have many options for DSing...Grey Knights and Tyranids play very similarly in many ways actually...aaaaaaand...getting off point.

**H.B.M.C.**

brassangel wrote:
This is how it goes with every codex. People take a rumor, make it seem awful, and then embellish the heck out of that slant.

Except people aren't embellishing rumours here. They're discussing actual pages from the Codex.

**gorgon**

Plumbumbarum wrote:
pretre wrote:
Plumbumbarum wrote:
This is the last time I pre order from GW, and not because of power level but because the new codex seem castrated for the sake of supplements and dataslates

"It's too early to be crying about this. Maybe next month all your tears will be valid." - Redbeard

Seriously, wait for the book to be in your hands before giving up on it. We had this same problem with Codex: Eldar. Everyone was crying doom and gloom and now look where we are. Or, and this was hilarious, the cries of OMG OP before the last Tyranid codex that turned out to be completely overblown.

Give it a week.

I hear you but just mycetic spores removal is bad and I see nothing to make up for this. I mean Tyranids are supposed to be outworldy smart but hardly can do anything more than walking the board getting shot? They will loose much of the ingame scare factor (and that is really cinematic, not some rule to force circle fights every 2 turns) if you can't throw zoanthropes or carnifexes around, not to mention Doom which was awesome as a means to see pale faces when you were throwing the scatter dice.

I can forgive overpriced units, I can't forgive removing tactical options. I'll wait ofc but mostly what I'm hoping for now is good art in the book.

Early reports do suggest that Tyranids are returning more to their unidirectional, cross-the-table dynamic.

However, adrenal glands will speed up that process, and all the points cuts will mean more numbers. I'll have to get a look at the codex first, but right now one of the things I want to try is a good old-fashioned MC rush supported by Hormagaunts, Raveners, etc.

**skarsol**

A Prime attached to Deathleaper looks like it would be a pretty nasty unit to have show up in your backyard.

**Shingen**

Shrike, Ravener, Gargoyle rush is a good. I already play like that so it's perfect for me.

Swarmy and guard supporting and then a horde of horms, venoms and maybe a haruspex.

Hopefully I can get that in 1850!

Never been happier!!!

**ductvader**

I'm definitely running:

Prime
CC Flyrant
Hive Guard
Lictors
Venoms
Tervigon
Gants
Gaunts
Stealers
Warriors
Harpy
Crone
Carnifexes
Exocrine if HEAVY otherwise Tyranno

...in my first run.

Can't wait to learn the new synergies.

**Ravajaxe**

gorgon wrote:
davethepak wrote:

And the Ugly

* The Possibility of no BRB powers.
* S3 weapons in a lot of places....sounds like designed to kill tau and guard.
* malenthropes are still terrible (but FW has a new bundle for them).
* The relics are incredibly under par from any recent books.
** Was I expecting a biomorph that granted a 3++ and EW? Of course not, that would be....a space marine.

The explanation for this -- and other examples of individual infantry models having EW -- goes back to something I said before. Sometimes you have to look at the game like it's a narrative to get inside the studio's mind.

To the studio, other armies are proper protagonists and antagonists that get to have proper 'heroes' and 'villains'. Meanwhile Tyranids are just an animalistic adversary to be overcome. It's heroic and cinematic to have some level 1 librarian taking down a Trygon or Tervigon with a single swing of his force weapon, so that's acceptable. It's also heroic and cinematic for some SM officer suffer enormous blows from a Carnifex that should have pulverized him and keep fighting, so that's acceptable also. The EW rule is an expression of cinematic heroics/villainry.

It is what it is. I'm not really even griping about it, it's something I've come to accept in their approach to the game. I happen to like the new regen and catalyst for boosting durability, FWIW.

Anpu42 wrote:To me it looks like we are going to be getting alot of Starship Toopers like senarios, at least with the Swarm Armies.
Hundreds of bug charging across the field Fearlessly as I throw either buckes of bolter shot at them [or flashlights] hoping that I kill enough before they get into Melee. Then me Praying that the bug roll bad and me good rolling good. Then the Big Bugs showing up to finish me off.

Ranting about power level and tournament play set aside, these are nice points, getting this cinematic feel is exintig. I hope this codex will help providing battles that provide this feeling.

I remember the time when White Dwarf was not exlusively an advert magazine for Citadel miniatures, they actually promoted Paul Verhoven's Starship troopers film. In these remote times, Cadians were the old metal OOP models, with much less bulky armor, and a their typical helmet. Tyranid vs Imperial Guard battles were organized in GW shops. That was epic.

**ductvader**

skarsol wrote:
A Prime attached to Deathleaper looks like it would be a pretty nasty unit to have show up in your backyard.

Deathleaper can only ever be a unit of one.

**Manchu**

Kroothawk wrote:
Every trace of Cruddace's ideas from last Codex erased. Quite depressing.

Remembering the last nids rumors threads and tons of threads in tactics and army lists for the following years ... I am shocked to read such a thing!

**pretre**

Manchu wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:
Every trace of Cruddace's ideas from last Codex erased. Quite depressing.
Remembering the last nids rumors threads and tons of threads in tactics and army lists for the following years ... I am shocked to read such a thing!

Yeah, that's a 'be careful what you ask for' kind of situation. People have been howling for Cruddace's blood since the last book came out. Looks like they got it.

**Siphen**

Just relaying the info here.
http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/44428/tyranid-rumours-jan-last-update

Don't think I've seen some of that info in this threat yet. Hive Tyrant points and stats, Haruspex stats, etc.

**ductvader**

Manchu wrote:
Kroothawk wrote:
Every trace of Cruddace's ideas from last Codex erased. Quite depressing.
Remembering the last nids rumors threads and tons of threads in tactics and army lists for the following years ... I am shocked to read such a thing!

I am personally sad because the presence of ymgarls was one of the few progressions/explanations in the 40k story we had seen when it came out.

It was amazing to learn that, yes, bugs have been here before.

**skarsol**

ductvader wrote:
skarsol wrote:
A Prime attached to Deathleaper looks like it would be a pretty nasty unit to have show up in your backyard.

Deathleaper can only ever be a unit of one.

Oh, right, I forgot that they can't join "Single model units" in my head that autotranslates to MCs. :(

**Manchu**

We don't know if that fluff has been retconned just yet.

**pretre**

Manchu wrote:
We don't know if that fluff has been retconned just yet.

We saw their fluff in one of the screenshots from the Black Library.

Spoiler:

**Therion**

I think the only really bad news so far is that the Tyranids have to wait for the first digital Hive Fleet supplement to ally with themselves, and that the new flyers didn't get any of the rumoured (read: made up) special rules like not being groundable and SV 3+.

The points reductions across the board are a significant buff and the Exocrine seems to dominate the heavy support slot in a Riptide / Heldrake fashion. Someone with the codex should calculate what 2 Flyrants, max Hive Guard, 2 Tervigons+Gaunts and 3 Exocrines costs in points, since that'll probably be the starting point for a lot of people. Once the allies kick in you'll get a 3rd Flyrant and 4th Exocrine in there somehow. It could very well be able to beat the Tau armies that people are now crying about since the Exocrine's gun beats the Ion Accelerator in a one on one, especially considering the price difference.

**Eyjio**

One of the IB(feed) results is to inflict a hit on yourself with the units majority Str Ap-. I sure can't wait for my Hormagaunts to become rippers and my Carnifexes to cinematicaly try to chew their arm off.

Oh, and gargoyles failing IB can literally never charge now, which is also really cinematic I feel.

I know I should wait for the full codex drop but... without biomancy (the only thing that made nids at all playable in 6e) I cannot see how this codex can be good. Everything we've been given is just the **** icing on the already **** cake.

**ductvader**

Eyjio wrote:
One of the IB(feed) results is to inflict a hit on yourself with the units majority Str Ap-. I sure can't wait for my Hormagaunts to become rippers and my Carnifexes to cinematicaly try to chew their arm off.

Oh, and gargoyles failing IB can literally never charge now, which is also really cinematic I feel.

I know I should wait for the full codex drop but... without biomancy (the only thing that made nids at all playable in 6e) I cannot see how this codex can be good. Everything we've been given is just the **** icing on the already **** cake.

So stay in synapse?

I can count on one hand how many times I've had a unit out of synapse in the past year.

**H.B.M.C.**

Hmm... 48" Rupture Cannon... 24" Exocrine. Still stupid...

pretre wrote:
"It's too early to be crying about this. Maybe next month all your tears will be valid." - Redbeard

We have detailed reports of the entire Codex. Cute little lines pretre aren't going to suddenly make the Codex better when everyone has it.

**Carnage43**

pretre wrote:
Manchu wrote:
We don't know if that fluff has been retconned just yet.

We saw their fluff in one of the screenshots from the Black Library.

Spoiler:

"Every attempt to eradicate them has been met with....." and the rest is cut off. Judging from the removal of their entry from the codex, I'm going to guess the next work is "success".

**pretre**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
We have detailed reports of the entire Codex. Cute little lines pretre aren't going to suddenly make the Codex better when everyone has it.

We had detailed reports and scans of the entire Eldar Codex and that was considered a failure. Give it a week or so.

**Skullhammer**

Any one know if a prime is a psycher now? As giving it the synapse boosters and putting it in cover and out of site mid-field will solve most synapse issues.