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205 points is allot of points for a unit on an objective!

Feels wrong to have Genestealer's being used to do nothing but score...

FWIW I am going to try testing unit's of stealers as ablative wounds for a BL... see what he can do in combat...

bodazoka wrote:
205 points is allot of points for a unit on an objective!

Feels wrong to have Genestealer's being used to do nothing but score...

FWIW I am going to try testing unit's of stealers as ablative wounds for a BL... see what he can do in combat...

I've been doing this for a while, doing 5 bug squads for each of my 3 broodlords.

It was moderately effective, if the BL got a decent set of rolls on biomancy. An Iron Arm, or Warp SPeed, made the BL terrifying for most anything.

With the new psy list, I don't see it doing much but wasting points. It was already pretty sketchy.

But, by all means try it. I like the BL, and the model. I wish it had a better performance.

Mysticdog wrote:
I've been doing this for a while, doing 5 bug squads for each of my 3 broodlords.

It was moderately effective, if the BL got a decent set of rolls on biomancy. An Iron Arm, or Warp SPeed, made the BL terrifying for most anything.

With the new psy list, I don't see it doing much but wasting points. It was already pretty sketchy.

But, by all means try it. I like the BL, and the model. I wish it had a better performance.

Does the Brood Lord do enough damage to warrant it?

And I get the feeling it would only be useful against certain armies?

One part of me likes that Tyranids didn't get a buff. I play both Tyranid and Dark Eldar, partly because they are looked at as two of the weaker races in 40k and not only do I enjoy the challenge, I also like that the difference in power levels could often be mitigated with tactical list building and even better gameplay choices. But on the other hand the loss of options in the new Dex really hurts everything I once loved as well. It now seems like we have kept our "weak dex" status, hoorah, i love not being Tau, but a lot of the on-the-fly strategical choices that we had last dex are gone. I remember making the decision on a game per game basis of whether to keep Warp Blast/Lance on my Zoanthropes, or, for example, whether to roll for Biomancy powers against the green tide, or whether to go for a Telepathy power to swap for Psychic Shriek and drop right next to a Tau Gunline. And this was dependant on their list as well as their army of choice. What about putting Dakkafex's where they could blast at an infantry unit and still assault a tank next turn without having put them in a spot where they get turned to chum. Or weighing up whether or not it's worth suiciding a pod of Devilgants behind enemy lines to bring down the Devastator squad, or playing them more conservatively by dropping them back a bit further in range of Tervigon buffs to help steam roll over a Terminator gang looking for trouble. And deciding on the most strategical placement of DoM, while my opponent has also tweaked his army positioning, knowing that he is coming down looking to feed.

To me these units and choices added extra elements to the game. If they weren't balanced in GW's eyes than by all means up the points or something, but it really feels like they were just too lazy to release a line of models for the units and removed them from the codex, I've seen and heard nothing to indicate otherwise. And now it seems like we are limited to lumbering across the board with Exocrines and TFex's and whatnot, while the opponent tries to bring us down with weight of fire before we reach them. Which is to be seen whether or not it's much of a challenging for some armies to do considering we are the slowest army in the game, or whether it will be challenging to stop with all our MC price drops, or whether it strikes a nice balance somewhere in the middle, but at the end of the day, is boring as hell if its our only option (IMO). While I'm not abandoning Nids and will finish up the models I need to play a bugzilla list of some sort, I think I'm probably going to focus on DE from now on, who while underpowered can really bridge the gap to some of the stronger dex's with a bit of smart thinking, something I feel Nid's no longer have.

Does anyone have the profile for the tervigon in english? i dont want to have to go through the entire thread to find it again.

/edit i mean with the bit about making it a troops choice.

Wait, so are scytals worthless on a Tervigon now? Crushing claws only viable option?

The next person who insults or flames another user will have their account suspended.

sLeEpYrOcK wrote:
Does anyone have the profile for the tervigon in english? i dont want to have to go through the entire thread to find it again.

/edit i mean with the bit about making it a troops choice.

You need a unit of 30 Termagants to make a Tervigon a Troops choice.

Indeed.

They've also lost the ability to bestow their upgrades to termagaunts they spawn, and have had their brood primogenitor backlash doubled., for the record.

Noctem wrote:
Wait, so are scytals worthless on a Tervigon now? Crushing claws only viable option?

Scytals are free now. Crushing claws are pretty good (make tervi S7 armourbane) but they are 15 points. IMO you are better off spending those points on regeneration or even adrenal glands so that the tervigon has fleet, and thus has a better chance of reaching where you need it to go.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

Noctem wrote:
Wait, so are scytals worthless on a Tervigon now? Crushing claws only viable option?

Scytals are free now. Crushing claws are pretty good (make tervi S7 armourbane) but they are 15 points. IMO you are better off spending those points on regeneration or even adrenal glands so that the tervigon has fleet, and thus has a better chance of reaching where you need it to go.

Ah ok, that makes sense. But Scytals being free for Tervigon now but no longer giving an extra attack mean they are basically just a visual things now and only Crushing Claws "adds" anything to the Tervigon?

The GW near me is doing a midnight release in about 4 hours. Tempted to go grab it, bit too tired to be bothered though, lol, I'll just grab it when next week when a discounted shop has it in.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

Noctem wrote:
Wait, so are scytals worthless on a Tervigon now? Crushing claws only viable option?

Scytals are free now. Crushing claws are pretty good (make tervi S7 armourbane) but they are 15 points. IMO you are better off spending those points on regeneration or even adrenal glands so that the tervigon has fleet, and thus has a better chance of reaching where you need it to go.

Tervigons are S5 so I believe claws would make them S6 not S7.

Disturb3d wrote:I'm looking forward to attatching OOE to a unit of dakkafexes with regen. The Carnistar.... Yeah.

I'm getting it tomorrow afternoon.

the volatile rule is funny as well, every unit sufffers a hits equal to the amount of models within 6", evry unit, which means, board wide, XD i find that really funny

Feeling underwhelmed ...

# Flyrant with devourers is still a main stay. There are actually HQ choices without synapse though? WTF
# Multi-wound T4 creatures are still a massive problem across the board - generally no better than 4+ armour means instakills S8 and S6 will often have AP4 min so auto wound on 2s still
# Genestealers are still never going to be the CC shock unit they should be - rear objective holders and hiding in bastions seems to be the only suggestions for them so far
# Hormogaunts still die in drives and their upgrades are too expensive - T3, Armour 6 puts them worse than guardsmen
# Tervigon gone up in price but still ok, but a 30 gaunt tax means I'm only taking one now
# Mycetic spore goes and no auto take of warp lance for zoanthropes puts them back in the cupboard as well
# At least there's still hive guard ... didn't they go up in price for worse stats though?
# Oh well, pack my army with biovores and carnfixes - the two main gains - only they both sit in Heavy Support
# There's always T5 flyers with bad armour saves though - only there won't be for very long - quadgun auto wounds on 2s ...
# I can always hide in cover, use venomthropes though - apart from divination users, Eldar, Tau and Thunderfire cannons, flamers etc - pretty much everyone bar Necron and Orks

There will be a few lists I can envision but I'm far from excited by this release based on what I've read so far.

 ruminator wrote:



# Mycetic spore goes and no auto take of warp lance for zoanthropes puts them back in the cupboard as well

For what it's worth zoanthropes do still have the warp lance. Both of its old shooting profiles are now under the warp blast power, so zoanthropes'll get both their lance and blast + a random other power.

So, half old good units got nerfed or deleted;
none of the units that needed fixing to function got fixed (exept fexes, perhaps);
new units are either too fragile (crone) or worse than ones we had (haruspex);
we lost biomancy that our survival depended upon;

Just give me our last codex (5ed) back!

NamelessBard wrote:

CinciWarBoss wrote:
Havent seen these pictures on Dakka yet. Someone posted this on /r/warhammer40k a few hours ago. http://imgur.com/a/8w57g

Nice rules on Volatile! Haha

For those that haven't seen it:

Every unit on the board takes a number of S3 hits equal to the models within 1d6".

The RAI is clearly that every unit takes a number of S3 hits equal to the models in that unit within 1d6".

Reading over the Instinctive Behavior charts, it's really not that bad.

Lurkers fall back. This is how it is now and is fine.

Hunters go to ground, which is also fine. It's like falling back.

Feeders only consume themselves unless they are a single-model unit. This won't affect Haruspexes, Trygons, single-Carnifexes, and other valuable units. This is a drawback to justify the lowering in costs of Hormagaunts, which is reasonable for a sacrificial unit anyways. Plus, this is a drawback that affects multi-model units of Carnifexes, but they too got a points reduction. This only matters for Raveners, but those have always been feces.

The consume-self outrage on Feed IB was blown out of proportion.

 AlexHolker wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:

CinciWarBoss wrote:
Havent seen these pictures on Dakka yet. Someone posted this on /r/warhammer40k a few hours ago. http://imgur.com/a/8w57g

Nice rules on Volatile! Haha

For those that haven't seen it:

Every unit on the board takes a number of S3 hits equal to the models within 1d6".

The RAI is clearly that every unit takes a number of S3 hits equal to the models in that unit within 1d6".

It's not just RAI. It's RAW.

The sentence is awkwardly structured, but the rules state that every unit takes S3 hits equal to the number of models within 1d6". If a unit has zero models within 1d6", then it takes zero S3 hits. Anyone arguing otherwise is a troll, on 4chan, or both.

 SHUPPET wrote:

CinciWarBoss wrote:

When power gamers say "every book out there" they mean Tau and Eldar.

Don't bring your positive fun attitude into this! This is an angry mob! Look at this garbage!!! Not a single re-rollable 2++ save in the whole book!! Where is my T8, W6 jumping MC with sky fire, interceptor and 10 str 8 shots a turn?!?! I was promised Tervigons that produce 4d6 gaunts without burning out!! Why, with this book, I can't expect anywhere close to a 90% win rate. /s

How come people are power gamers for wanting to keep Biomancy, DoM & Spores? That is everyone's main issue with the dex, I can take whatever crap they gave me this edition and would have been fine with it, at least I could still use my favourite units however bad they are, but why take out options and models that I personally acquired for my army on GW's encouragement?


In fact, the main people I see as power gamers are the ones who are saying that this dex is a good thing because of all the price drop's they can build a stronger mono-list (quite possible). This is terrible powergaming because we just lost our pods and aggressive deep strike capabilities and have pretty much been shoehorned into a single play style of walking fat MC's across the board. The fact that we weren't given OP tools in a meta where other army's have OP tools is not what most people in here care about (although it wouldn't have been unjustified to give us SOME really good units, this is of no concern to me at all), what people care about is the terrible lack of diversity.

And before you go on to say that I'm an exception, No, I'm not. FYI Power gaming, and maining a Tyranid army isn't exactly synonymous. If you had bothered to read this thread, at all, you would see that basically everyone who has an issue with the codex has made it explicitly clear that it's not the new options they are disappointed with (maybe a bit of a let down with the Crone but people overhyped that for no reason at all). Nope, people's issue is that we have lost so much of the very few strengths of our old codex. These people aren't power gamers, they are nid players from 5E who are used to having an underpowered army, who have just had strategic options taken away and told that it's a "new codex".

This.

IB hunt is terrible. Going to ground means 2 turns of sitting around doing nothing. The turn you g2g and the turn you get up.

IB is all bad and fearless in synapse just doesn't make up for it.

ruminator wrote:
# Oh well, pack my army with biovores and carnfixes - the two main gains - only they both sit in Heavy Support
.

3 Biovores and 6 Carnifexs, or 6 Biovores and 3 Carnifexes ain't so bad


I never saved the stats/ pics for Haruspex and Tervigon. But IIRC they seem on fairly level playing field?
That's just something crossing my mind now.

I think i may be running 12 Spore Mines for fun. As they are individual units each, they will cause some attention.


Being a newb still, i'm glad people are being forced out of the linear lists, it helps me formulate new tactics with models i previously didn't know how to use properly because people are NOW talking about them. Before everyone would push them aside and talk Tervigons. While funnily enough i end up winning when i have a Tervigon on the table, i like variety. Stupidly i never thought of using Genestealers as strategic "stay away from this area" and just staying out of LOS. Though their rending has had me kill a drednought before.


Can someone spell out what's up with Zoanies?
Get Lance/ Blast for free, +1 additional random power?
What's this Assault 3 thing? I don't want to Assault with them, so is that each (woah!)??
The Brotherhood of Psychers rule says they will be ML1, and Warp Blast/ Lance is Warp Charge 2?
-10pts each?
I'm all confused as to how they got buffed.

Feeders only consume themselves unless they are a single-model unit. This won't affect Haruspexes, Trygons, single-Carnifexes, and other valuable units. This is a drawback to justify the lowering in costs of Hormagaunts, which is reasonable for a sacrificial unit anyways. Plus, this is a drawback that affects multi-model units of Carnifexes, but they too got a points reduction. This only matters for Raveners, but those have always been feces.

You say carnifexes and hormagaunts got a point reduction so thats ok, as if they were good before and needed something bad to balance a point reduction.

The truth is they were bad before and needed a buff and/or points reduction to make them good, not a point reduction and a nerf to make them worse to balance them out! Admitedly carnifex got a minor nerf some buffs and a point reduction so are now decent, maybe even good, but not hormagaunts, and sadly most of the things that got reductions (and even a cple that got a points INCREASE) were only passable to bad before and got NERFS as well.

 eskimo wrote:



Can someone spell out what's up with Zoanies?
Get Lance/ Blast for free, +1 additional random power?
What's this Assault 3 thing? I don't want to Assault with them, so is that each (woah!)??
The Brotherhood of Psychers rule says they will be ML1, and Warp Blast/ Lance is Warp Charge 2?
-10pts each?
I'm all confused as to how they got buffed.

Zoanthropes are a bit odd now. They have a special rule which makes their Brotherhood Mastery 2 instead of 1. This means that you get Warp Blast and may roll for one extra power regardless of how many models are in the unit. You'll never be able to cast more than one power from the unit per turn either, as Warp Blast is charge 2.
There is another special rule which makes Warp Blast fire a number of times equal to the number of models in the brood, so it can become Assault 2 or Assault 3.

 eskimo wrote:

3 Biovores and 6 Carnifexs, or 6 Biovores and 3 Carnifexes ain't so bad

I never saved the stats/ pics for Haruspex and Tervigon. But IIRC they seem on fairly level playing field?
That's just something crossing my mind now.

I think i may be running 12 Spore Mines for fun. As they are individual units each, they will cause some attention.


Being a newb still, i'm glad people are being forced out of the linear lists, it helps me formulate new tactics with models i previously didn't know how to use properly because people are NOW talking about them. Before everyone would push them aside and talk Tervigons. While funnily enough i end up winning when i have a Tervigon on the table, i like variety. Stupidly i never thought of using Genestealers as strategic "stay away from this area" and just staying out of LOS. Though their rending has had me kill a drednought before.

Tervigons and Genestealers are basically trash. Genestealers are overcosted by about 50% and have no additional protection. Their upgrades are also way overpriced for what they add.

Tervigons are now a liability to any army built around Termagants, thanks to the backlash range being doubled. They're also heavily dependent on which random power they roll as to how useful they are.

Fexes and Biovores look really promising, especially in conjunction with the new spore mine rules. The Haruspex may well be decent, but will compete with Venomthropes, Zoanthropes and maybe Lictors for a spot.

I have a theory which would explain awfulness of this codex: the rumours of 7th edition are true, and GW plans to Please don't bypass the language filter like this. Reds8n the assault, and this codex is balanced that in mind.

The spelling of Regeneration is now: Regains a wound on a 4+ each turns end. Thats pretty good you can roll in the end of your turn and in the end of your opponents turn.

AdagiO wrote:
The spelling of Regeneration is now: Regains a wound on a 4+ each turns end. Thats pretty good you can roll in the end of your turn and in the end of your opponents turn.

I thought it was friendly turn - and can Hor get Regen also?

zacharia wrote:

Feeders only consume themselves unless they are a single-model unit. This won't affect Haruspexes, Trygons, single-Carnifexes, and other valuable units. This is a drawback to justify the lowering in costs of Hormagaunts, which is reasonable for a sacrificial unit anyways. Plus, this is a drawback that affects multi-model units of Carnifexes, but they too got a points reduction. This only matters for Raveners, but those have always been feces.

You say carnifexes and hormagaunts got a point reduction so thats ok, as if they were good before and needed something bad to balance a point reduction.

The truth is they were bad before and needed a buff and/or points reduction to make them good, not a point reduction and a nerf to make them worse to balance them out! Admitedly carnifex got a minor nerf some buffs and a point reduction so are now decent, maybe even good, but not hormagaunts, and sadly most of the things that got reductions (and even a cple that got a points INCREASE) were only passable to bad before and got NERFS as well.

A cost reduction doesn't really make bad units good. Pyrovores could be free, and they would still be bad. Carnifex were good in the last codex but overcosted. Hormagaunts were bad in the last codex and will still be bad.

Didn't GW also go on and on in interviews about how they really had to wow us with the new Tyranid codex after the last one? Well, I guess we've been wowed, but probably not like they were expecting. The codex just doesn't mix well with the current rules. The codex has rules that make you want to group up and push forward. The rulebook has rules that make you want to spread out and take objectives. The codex has rules to put high importance on certain models. The rulebook has rules that make high importance models require hiding. These important models in the Tyranid codex *can't* hide.

 Nem wrote:

AdagiO wrote:
The spelling of Regeneration is now: Regains a wound on a 4+ each turns end. Thats pretty good you can roll in the end of your turn and in the end of your opponents turn.

I thought it was friendly turn - and can Hor get Regen also?

Hor?
This link has the scanned page of Biomorph upgrades.
http://imgur.com/a/8w57g

Its now end of each turn.