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out of the 18...which two had the biggest rivalry with each other, they didn't like each other, couldn' stand each other etc.?

Dorn, and (pertrubo?) IF and Iron warriros imo.

^

+1 for Dorn/Peturabo

Although Magnus/Russ were quite often at odds

Not to mention the Russ / Jonson sucker punch fiasco.

Fulgrim and Ferrus Magnus. Started as friends, and then Fulgrim killed Ferrus. Did any other so-called rivalry end in death? I think not.

Kinda hit on the biggest, most notable ones here. Though they are kind of rivalries of a different sort. The Pertaburo/Dorn rivalry is not quite like the Russ/Jonson one, etc.

 Redbeard wrote:
Fulgrim and Ferrus Magnus. Started as friends, and then Fulgrim killed Ferrus. Did any other so-called rivalry end in death? I think not.

I might be wrong, but iirc Guilliman always reprimanded Alpharius for his legion's total unorthodox behaviour... And in the end he (supposedly) killed Alpharius himself.

 Kerrathyr wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:
Fulgrim and Ferrus Magnus. Started as friends, and then Fulgrim killed Ferrus. Did any other so-called rivalry end in death? I think not.

I might be wrong, but iirc Guilliman always reprimanded Alpharius for his legion's total unorthodox behaviour... And in the end he (supposedly) killed Alpharius himself.

And then Fulgrim killed Guilliman, completing the circle of life.

Lorgar and Guiliman. Lorgar made it his personal mission to see all that Guillimn acheived reduced to dust.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lorgar and Guiliman. Lorgar made it his personal mission to see all that Guillimn acheived reduced to dust.

 Deadshot wrote:
Lorgar and Guiliman. Lorgar made it his personal mission to see all that Guillimn acheived reduced to dust.

And then Fulgrim killed Guilliman, completing the circle of life.... Fulgrim - killing chumps since 30,000AD.

 Redbeard wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Lorgar and Guiliman. Lorgar made it his personal mission to see all that Guillimn acheived reduced to dust.

And then Fulgrim killed Guilliman, completing the circle of life.... Fulgrim - killing chumps since 30,000AD.

Have you read the HH books? Gulliman and Sanguinius are the only genuinely pleasant individuals in the setting, and Fulgrim is entirely loathsome. I am still at a loss to understand the logic behind the Guilliman hate on dakka, why was he a chump exactly?

Because he's an Ultramarine.

 Psienesis wrote:
Because he's an Ultramarine.

It's closer to, "Matt Ward likes Guilliman, therefore I cannot like Guilliman because reasons."

Also his name is really weird. But all the Primarchs have weird/silly/stupid names.

"Hey guys this dude is gonna be really pissed all the time, let's call him .... Pertur..abro! It's like 'perturbed' huehue."

Because people are jelly they cant be like the ultras

 mattyrm wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Lorgar and Guiliman. Lorgar made it his personal mission to see all that Guillimn acheived reduced to dust.

And then Fulgrim killed Guilliman, completing the circle of life.... Fulgrim - killing chumps since 30,000AD.

Have you read the HH books? Gulliman and Sanguinius are the only genuinely pleasant individuals in the setting, and Fulgrim is entirely loathsome. I am still at a loss to understand the logic behind the Guilliman hate on dakka, why was he a chump exactly?

Does Vulkan even exist in the HH? (He seems like he would be a pleasant guy)

 StarTrotter wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Lorgar and Guiliman. Lorgar made it his personal mission to see all that Guillimn acheived reduced to dust.

And then Fulgrim killed Guilliman, completing the circle of life.... Fulgrim - killing chumps since 30,000AD.

Have you read the HH books? Gulliman and Sanguinius are the only genuinely pleasant individuals in the setting, and Fulgrim is entirely loathsome. I am still at a loss to understand the logic behind the Guilliman hate on dakka, why was he a chump exactly?

Does Vulkan even exist in the HH? (He seems like he would be a pleasant guy)

Yeah he was a good guy as well, except he has featured in the fluff heaps less than the rest of them.



The only drawback of the HH seems to be that they are removing all of the ambiguity, Curze was really interesting to me 2 years back, he was complex and misunderstood and you almost felt sorry for him, same goes for some of the others, Logar for instance, but now, well.. Curze is basically evil personified like a Hollywood villain, Lorgar is entirely detestable, same goes for Angron, while Gulliman and Sanguinius are like, ultra nice, humble, honorable Mary Sue type good-guys.

The Lion is still pretty interesting I suppose, because he comes across as pretty awesome as well, but has acted like a prize dick in the past so at least a little ambiguity remains, but I definitely feel that fleshing out the fluff has come at a cost, to me it almost feel like since I read all the HH books, it went from being super interesting, to basically being about as predictable as a Jason Statham movie.

This one is easy, Angron and everyone else, he barely tolerates Horus, and hates all the other primarchs for being the emperor's lackey's

 mattyrm wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Lorgar and Guiliman. Lorgar made it his personal mission to see all that Guillimn acheived reduced to dust.

And then Fulgrim killed Guilliman, completing the circle of life.... Fulgrim - killing chumps since 30,000AD.

Have you read the HH books? Gulliman and Sanguinius are the only genuinely pleasant individuals in the setting, and Fulgrim is entirely loathsome. I am still at a loss to understand the logic behind the Guilliman hate on dakka, why was he a chump exactly?

My take on it:

Guilliman is supposedly the organizational and strategic master. This is the guy who has the biggest legion, the best organized personal system, who writes the codex astartes and preserves the imperium -after- the heresy. And yet, he's outwitted by Horus's master plan of "hey Guilliman, go over there please" maneuver. Some strategic mastermind that.

Plus, as you noted, Fulgrim is somewhat loathsome, and Fulgrim kills Guilliman. Any student of Literature must recognize the trope where the loathsome villain gets to kill a couple of chumps, just to show how despicable they are. Loathsome villains aren't allowed to kill Heros. There's no way Fulgrim would be allowed to kill Sanguinius, right, cause he's a loathsome villain, and Sanguinius is truely Noble and Heroic. Horus, the Tragic Villain, is the one who kills Sanguinius. It follows then that anyone Fulgrim takes out cannot actually be a Hero, and must instead be a chump whose purpose in the story is simply to allow the loathsome villain opportunities to be villainous.

except, he is not dead yet

 mattyrm wrote:

Have you read the HH books? Gulliman and Sanguinius are the only genuinely pleasant individuals in the setting, and Fulgrim is entirely loathsome. I am still at a loss to understand the logic behind the Guilliman hate on dakka, why was he a chump exactly?

Because he's boring?

Because he thinks everyone is jealous of him and feels he has to apologize for being so awesome, despite barely being mentioned by any Primarch in the series before Know No Fear (Proving him wrong)?

Because he is the only Primarch to be beaten up in single combat by a mortal?

Pick your reasons.

Ummmm. Guilliman held off TWO fallen primarchz at once. (Admidattly one was lorgar) but still he was losing but he held them off long enough so his men could withdraw


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Honestly there are several more boring primarchs than big papa smurf

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Because he's boring?

Subjective opinion is subjective. What may seem boring to one person could be pretty hip and cool in the eyes of another man.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Because he thinks everyone is jealous of him

Well Lorgar certainly was jealous of Guilliman.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
and feels he has to apologize for being so awesome

I wouldn’t really hold another person thoughts or feelings against them. Guilliman might think he is awesome, but he never acted arrogant or snobbish towards those people, who were less accomplished than him.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Because he is the only Primarch to be beaten up in single combat by a mortal?

Only the very foolish (or arrogant,) would dare call Kor Phaeron a mere mortal. Underestimate him at your own peril.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Pick your reasons.

I’m sure that, if you really hated Guilliman, you could come up with all kinds of reasons to hate him, or any other character for that matter.

How about because he was too stubborn to accept other forms of warfare like Alphrius's which, while impractical at times, got results and beat him!

a foe without honor is a foe already beaten.

I think Kurze and Vulkan have an interesting relationship.

 Redcruisair wrote:
Guilliman might think he is awesome, but he never acted arrogant or snobbish towards those people, who were less accomplished than him.

What about Alpharius?

 Redbeard wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Lorgar and Guiliman. Lorgar made it his personal mission to see all that Guillimn acheived reduced to dust.

And then Fulgrim killed Guilliman, completing the circle of life.... Fulgrim - killing chumps since 30,000AD.

Have you read the HH books? Gulliman and Sanguinius are the only genuinely pleasant individuals in the setting, and Fulgrim is entirely loathsome. I am still at a loss to understand the logic behind the Guilliman hate on dakka, why was he a chump exactly?

My take on it:

Guilliman is supposedly the organizational and strategic master. This is the guy who has the biggest legion, the best organized personal system, who writes the codex astartes and preserves the imperium -after- the heresy. And yet, he's outwitted by Horus's master plan of "hey Guilliman, go over there please" maneuver. Some strategic mastermind that.

Plus, as you noted, Fulgrim is somewhat loathsome, and Fulgrim kills Guilliman. Any student of Literature must recognize the trope where the loathsome villain gets to kill a couple of chumps, just to show how despicable they are. Loathsome villains aren't allowed to kill Heros. There's no way Fulgrim would be allowed to kill Sanguinius, right, cause he's a loathsome villain, and Sanguinius is truely Noble and Heroic. Horus, the Tragic Villain, is the one who kills Sanguinius. It follows then that anyone Fulgrim takes out cannot actually be a Hero, and must instead be a chump whose purpose in the story is simply to allow the loathsome villain opportunities to be villainous.

The loathsome villain often kills the wise mentor or valued party member, too.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:

Have you read the HH books? Gulliman and Sanguinius are the only genuinely pleasant individuals in the setting, and Fulgrim is entirely loathsome. I am still at a loss to understand the logic behind the Guilliman hate on dakka, why was he a chump exactly?

Because he's boring?

Because he thinks everyone is jealous of him and feels he has to apologize for being so awesome, despite barely being mentioned by any Primarch in the series before Know No Fear (Proving him wrong)?

Because he is the only Primarch to be beaten up in single combat by a mortal?

Pick your reasons.

Boring is subjective, I find him far more engaging than say Angron or Curze. He is one of the few who don't come across as a cardboard cutout.

He comes across quite humble in the HH series, and Lorgar is definitely mad jelly. One of Lorgar's moments of maturing was realizing Gully never looked down on him or tried to rub the Ultramarines' success in his face.

He got zapped by a voodoo dagger at the height and heart of the Ruinstorm. The Lord of the First also got rolled by a mortal. So did Horus, although I guess technically he got beat by an inanimate object.

 SarisKhan wrote:

 Redcruisair wrote:
Guilliman might think he is awesome, but he never acted arrogant or snobbish towards those people, who were less accomplished than him.

What about Alpharius?

That specific piece of fluff is horrible outdated and will probably be rectonned out of existence in the HH series.

how was kor phareon able to beat a primarch?