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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Ok, but you where saying earlier the fast food workers do not deserve a special wage because their job is not hard and does not require more then a few hours worth of training? Well I work loading boxes in a large, hot kitchen(Kitchens do get extremely hot, dry hot too, do not think they are "Warm") and that is hard, wo where is my extra pay?

It's not specialized at all. Not a single bit.

And it's not any sort of adverse working conditions. It's a kitchen. I've worked in one at a fast food restaurant and a fine dining restaurant. They're warm. And indoors.

Working at a fast food restaurant is the single most replaceable postition save perhaps prostitute, where all that's required there is a warm hole to fill.

My wife did three degrees. Did it help her find a job? Hell no. College is definately not something you need to do.

Want to do? preferably to actually get a foothold in a higher job (like doctor, or something in that realm) or in the sciences.

If you are content to only have a little money to spend, sure, skip college and go straight into work. My advice, work and study at the same time, preferably a job in either the food industry OR office work. Both mean you actually get a taste of pressure, and how easy higher work it.

Tell you what, if you want a job that pays well right out of college with an abundance of employment options? Become a Registered Nurse. 2 years community college, 2 years Nursing school, all of which can be done while working part time(or full time if you don't need much sleep).

The schooling is dirt cheap(compared to most 4 year courses) and the average starting pay is $30+/hr full time. Most RN's work 3x 12 hour shifts, meaning 4 day weekends. Most RN's opt to work holidays because they are 2x hourly. And last I checked there was something like a 15% deficit of RN's compared to the demand.

My mother(estranged as we may be) and 2 of my sisters are RN's. And while the younger sister did lolly gag about for a few months before applying for a job, her very first RN gig she got on the first try and it started at $32/hr full time with benefits. While she was in school she was an EMT making $10/hr doing 3x 12 hour shifts.

If any of you have ever been to a hospital in the US, you know damn well that any random idiot with a cursory knowledge of English can become an RN.

So there. There is your answer. Is it college? technically. Is it expensive? Not really, and even then you make enough money so quickly at it that what small studen loans you do have could be paid off in well under 4 years.

Now back to the major point: is it what you always dreamed of doing? Not likely, but it will certainly solve a LOT of financial issues for you in a relatively short amount of time compared to trying to work up corporate ladders.

That is something my mother said I should do, she said she saw me as either a history teacher, or a nurse

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
That is something my mother said I should do, she said she saw me as either a history teacher, or a nurse

There is a lot of stigma behind male nurses, but then you can always remind those mocking you that you make more than they do and you enjoy 4 day weekends and that'll shut them up right quick.

I don't have the bedside manner for nursing. I have the bedside manner of of a tiger shark.

I hope you're not going to school to be a teacher. That's one of the most over saturated markets in the us.

 Aerethan wrote:

To that same end though, look at EMT's. The make on average $9/hr, and they are saving people's lives. You don't see them picketing on the street refusing to work because they want more money. Most of the career medics go to school to advance their careers and make more money, like grown ups.

The only one of these averages (I assume they are means) which approaches 9 USD per hour is West Virginia at $11.72, meaning that the national average (mean) is significantly higher than that.

Of course, part of the reason that the pay for EMTs is what it is now is that they have picketed in the past.

 Aerethan wrote:

I don't have the bedside manner for nursing. I have the bedside manner of of a tiger shark.

You flail uncontrollably as you slowly suffocate in a non-aqueous environment?

 Aerethan wrote:
Tell you what, if you want a job that pays well right out of college with an abundance of employment options? Become a Registered Nurse. 2 years community college, 2 years Nursing school, all of which can be done while working part time(or full time if you don't need much sleep).

Why would you get an associates degree, and then get another associates degree? Why not just get a 3 year associates in nursing? I mean, if you're going to spend 4 years in college, just get a BSN; you'll be way more employable.

 Aerethan wrote:

If any of you have ever been to a hospital in the US, you know damn well that any random idiot with a cursory knowledge of English can become an RN.

The NCLEX is not an easy test, by any stretch of the imagination.

Also, I suspect you're confusing RNs with LPNs. RNs are almost never the majority of nurses in any given hospital.

I am getting my Phd this semester but i firmly believe in the apprenticeship system.
i might be a bit biased because im german and that education system is like 'typical' german. nonetheless i think that learning what is necessary to perform a certain job from somebody who is a master in said profession is the way to go. the plumber is a good example, the electrician heck even mechanics or technicians. all which are by no means 'stupid' jobs.
acquiring relevant knowledge, learning from the 'pros' and maybe even getting already paid for that - contrary to learning stuff you might never need professionally and having to pay for it. yes i would say not everybody needs college.

as for the financial side: i am now 32 and had never a real (paying) job. hooray for academia -.- anyway lets say that you get a paid job with 30-33 when you go the phd route vs a apprentice who gets paid from the start when he is about 17. that much of a head start in lifetime income is difficult to catch up. even if (like in Germany) your university was basically free and you are not in debt over your head.

does everybody need college? no. might it benefit your personal development? yes is it worth it? depends i guess. i would hope that more people learn a trade and go to college when they are a bit more mature and get something out of it.

just my opinion
regards
alex

 cincydooley wrote:


And how does all that relate to the heaping blame you were shoveling

Sorry fpr deleting part of your post - phone is a pita to edit quotes and there is no undo button.

But to answer - I dont recall'heaping blame' on the banks. I said they exaccerbated an already existing problem. I dont know if you have seen the news in the last 5 years or so but a lot of companies have had staff freezes or reductions - those experienced workers are then looking for jobs and are being taken back into their industries often in lower paid entry level jobs, which would normally go to graduates. So rather than just competition between graduates you now have less places hiring less people, with more experienced worker applying for those entry level jobs along with a backlog of graduates...

 dogma wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:

If any of you have ever been to a hospital in the US, you know damn well that any random idiot with a cursory knowledge of English can become an RN.

The NCLEX is not an easy test, by any stretch of the imagination.

Also, I suspect you're confusing RNs with LPNs. RNs are almost never the majority of nurses in any given hospital.

I suspect you either live in a "not nice part of town" Aerethan, or you have horrible judge of a person's skills at the hospital. My sister in law is an ER nurse and it is most definitely not a job for "any random idiot with a cursory knowledge of English"

To hear her talk, it's the Doctors in the ER who are wholly replaceable and idiotic. The thing is, is that it's the nurses who actually KNOW the patients, not just a chart. It's the nurses who have to know that if they are on medication X, then they under no conditions must EVER take medication Y. They have to be able to remind the doctors who only see the chart of these medications, etc. While being an RN is not the top of the line for her credentials, she is also working towards becoming a Nurse Practitioner, which if she stays at the hospital she's at means a big pay raise, but it also means that she will be able to prescribe certain levels of medication (as in, NPs can give people Tylenol, Motrin, Pepto Bismal, that sort of thing, without the doctor having to write it up), which means also an increase in responsibility.

So no, nursing is not a job that just anyone can do, not to even mention the physical aspects of the job that she has to deal with.

Nurses also have one of the highest divorce rates of any profession. It is not a job that leads to a stable relationship - if that matters to you (or your SO). My wife considered nursing when she went back to school, and chose against it for that reason.

I don't regret going to University as I met my partner there, however it was mostly unnecessary. I studied Comparative Literature and Philosophy. I enjoyed my time studying. I learned valuable critical thinking, communication and knowledge of theorists which assist me in my job as a support worker for adults with learning disabilities and sexual convictions. However I needed a different set of qualifications which I'm studying for at a local college to be fully registered. I could have went to college or undertaken a modern apprenticeship and be where I am today.

I would like to go back to be a qualified social worker at some point.

 OIIIIIIO wrote:
you never know when you are going to get sued over something as trivial as 'Hot Coffee'

Oh yeah, trivial 3rd degree burns down to her bones that required skin grafts.

Please educate yourself before spewiing idiocy.
>>>WARNING: GRAPHIC TRUTH AND IMAGES AT LINK<<<

 Redbeard wrote:
Nurses also have one of the highest divorce rates of any profession. It is not a job that leads to a stable relationship - if that matters to you (or your SO). My wife considered nursing when she went back to school, and chose against it for that reason.

my sister-in-law and brother in law have a very good working relationship. Thing is, he is a rural firefighter/paramedic, so they work fairly similar shifts and understand each other's work pretty well. Which may be a problem that other nurses dont get solved (the having an understanding SO)



@steamdragon... IIRC hadn't that particular McDs been reprimanded for the temperature of their coffee in the past? I remember that whole case was a big bag of ugly worms, and many people are OK with remaining ignorant of the facts and details, and then blaming the victim

 cincydooley wrote:
[Automatically Appended Next Post:

 streamdragon wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:
I maintain that McJobs are for children.

Reality disagres with your, frankly, ignorant viewpoint.
.

Just because older people are working McJobs at minimum wage doesn't mean those jobs were intended to be careers for adults. They weren't. And aren't.

But yet, for some puzzling reason they are. So, why did these jobs evolve into what they are now?

To those saying that a "McJob" is a child's job - that's not true in every country in the world. Here, for example, you see mostly adult migrant workers working in those jobs. Do they not need a decently paying job, so they can support their families back home? I'd say that the model of McJobs may be true for most western developed countries (though I cannot speak from experience) but that's not true for all countries at all.

But regardless, remember the budget planning thing McD's put out? Which said that the workers should get a second job and then massively undercosted things? Would you not argue that you wouldn't want anyone to have to be in that position anyway, much less say your child?

In 2012, McDonalds had a $5.5 billion profit. With about 1.8 million employees in the world, and halving the money they made (which still is a significant amount of money) they could have afforded to give all those employees a bonus of $1527.77, which could be quite significant for some people.

 cincydooley wrote:
I hope you're not going to school to be a teacher. That's one of the most over saturated markets in the us.

*Whistles Non-chalantly* Nope, So not planning on that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:
Nurses also have one of the highest divorce rates of any profession. It is not a job that leads to a stable relationship - if that matters to you (or your SO). My wife considered nursing when she went back to school, and chose against it for that reason.

my sister-in-law and brother in law have a very good working relationship. Thing is, he is a rural firefighter/paramedic, so they work fairly similar shifts and understand each other's work pretty well. Which may be a problem that other nurses dont get solved (the having an understanding SO)

If you have a wife/husband that doesnt understand your shifts or stuff like that, you didntt have a good relationship in the first place

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
If you have a wife/husband that doesnt understand your shifts or stuff like that, you didntt have a good relationship in the first place

It's not always that simple. Surely doing some kind of social science as you are you can see that?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

If you have a wife/husband that doesnt understand your shifts or stuff like that, you didntt have a good relationship in the first place

There are always times where, even if you have an understanding, the timing of the shifts may cause strains in the first place. I know that with my wife and I both being in the military, having a 24 hour shift puts brief stress on the other one, because they have to pick up double the tasks they previously had. in my in-laws case; When both have a shift, they call on another family member to watch the kid and feed the dogs while they are gone... So while they do have an understanding of the shift work, it does take extra work, and causes extra stress/strain on the relationship the way things sometimes work out.

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
If you have a wife/husband that doesnt understand your shifts or stuff like that, you didntt have a good relationship in the first place

It's not always that simple. Surely doing some kind of social science as you are you can see that?

Hotsauceman hasn't even had a real relationship before, so he's speaking purely from ignorance here.

Hey, me and my pillow in a shirt are madly in love

 Easy E wrote:

But yet, for some puzzling reason they are. So, why did these jobs evolve into what they are now?

Oh, I get that there are SOME adults working them because they've been laid off from their career profession. But that doesn't change the fact that the job isn't intended as a career to support a family. If you get laid off from a "career job" chances are you're going to have to have more than one part time job to replace it.

Anyone that thinks a McJob should be able replace a "career job" by itself is fooling themselves.

@hotsauce - you can have all the understanding in the world, but not seeing your spouse for days in a row can really take an emotional toll on a relationship. It starts subtly, and builds slowly. But it can be really, really damaging. Not seeing your spouse is a major reason people become unfaithful. You need that emotional fulfillment from somewhere.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Hey, me and my pillow in a shirt are madly in love

But what about the times the pillow shirt has to go in the wash?

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 dogma wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:

If any of you have ever been to a hospital in the US, you know damn well that any random idiot with a cursory knowledge of English can become an RN.

The NCLEX is not an easy test, by any stretch of the imagination.

Also, I suspect you're confusing RNs with LPNs. RNs are almost never the majority of nurses in any given hospital.

I suspect you either live in a "not nice part of town" Aerethan, or you have horrible judge of a person's skills at the hospital. My sister in law is an ER nurse and it is most definitely not a job for "any random idiot with a cursory knowledge of English"

To hear her talk, it's the Doctors in the ER who are wholly replaceable and idiotic. The thing is, is that it's the nurses who actually KNOW the patients, not just a chart. It's the nurses who have to know that if they are on medication X, then they under no conditions must EVER take medication Y. They have to be able to remind the doctors who only see the chart of these medications, etc. While being an RN is not the top of the line for her credentials, she is also working towards becoming a Nurse Practitioner, which if she stays at the hospital she's at means a big pay raise, but it also means that she will be able to prescribe certain levels of medication (as in, NPs can give people Tylenol, Motrin, Pepto Bismal, that sort of thing, without the doctor having to write it up), which means also an increase in responsibility.

So no, nursing is not a job that just anyone can do, not to even mention the physical aspects of the job that she has to deal with.

I should have specified. ER nurses are the ones who do things and know stuff. Floor nurses(which are often still RN's) are the ones who are the exact opposite.

And yes, ER doctors don't know their elbows from their donkey-caves.

 Aerethan wrote:
I should have specified. ER nurses are the ones who do things and know stuff. Floor nurses(which are often still RN's) are the ones who are the exact opposite.

And yes, ER doctors don't know their elbows from their donkey-caves.

I don't know what it is like in Americaland but our doctors and nurses have quite extensive training and should undergo continuous training throughout their careers. Like any job there are some people who are good at it, some who are not so good. Blanket statements like the above are both inaccurate and disingenuous.

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:
I should have specified. ER nurses are the ones who do things and know stuff. Floor nurses(which are often still RN's) are the ones who are the exact opposite.

And yes, ER doctors don't know their elbows from their donkey-caves.

I don't know what it is like in Americaland but our doctors and nurses have quite extensive training and should undergo continuous training throughout their careers. Like any job there are some people who are good at it, some who are not so good. Blanket statements like the above are both inaccurate and disingenuous.

The problem people have with American ER docs is that their primary purpose is to keep people from dying and to fix catastrophic injuries quickly. It's not bedside manner, nor is it to provide any in depth diagnosis. I think people expect ER docs to be more like their family practitioner and they're just not intended to be.

Yeah, ER docs aren't regular hospital doctors (though some may be both) or private practice, they're there to pull what ever it is that shouldn't be in you out of you, get you patched up and into a non-life threatening situation, but they still tend to have more medical knowledge than I do.

 SilverMK2 wrote:
I don't know what it is like in Americaland but our doctors and nurses have quite extensive training and should undergo continuous training throughout their careers. Like any job there are some people who are good at it, some who are not so good. Blanket statements like the above are both ignorant and offensive.

Fixed your typo.

There are plenty of GOOD nurses, sure. And for every decent nurse with proper bedside manner there are 4 floor nurses(of varying degrees of schooling) with little to no bedside manner at all.

I think the problem there is that a lot of them get jaded and they just start treating most every patient like they are there for a fix of pain meds.

And true, that may just be a local experience to where I've spent the most time in a hospital. But having spent 3 weeks in a hospital for emergency knee surgery, I'd rather have had ER nurses dealing with me the whole time than the jaded "don't give a feth" floor staff that local hospitals seem to employ in spades.

So to the hard working nurses, I apologize for my broad generalization.

 Aerethan wrote:
There are plenty of GOOD nurses, sure. And for every decent nurse with proper bedside manner there are 4 floor nurses(of varying degrees of schooling) with little to no bedside manner at all.

I think the problem there is that a lot of them get jaded and they just start treating most every patient like they are there for a fix of pain meds.

And true, that may just be a local experience to where I've spent the most time in a hospital. But having spent 3 weeks in a hospital for emergency knee surgery, I'd rather have had ER nurses dealing with me the whole time than the jaded "don't give a feth" floor staff that local hospitals seem to employ in spades.

So to the hard working nurses, I apologize for my broad generalization.

Eh... those are just "bad apples".

They're everywhere in all walks of life.

When I was "trying" to pass my kidney stones... the floor nurse really took care of me and emphasized the pain I was in (thus, gave me enough meds!)

YMMV with these sorts of experiences...

For what Nurses have to go through... they need to be paid much more than now IMO.