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I am considering a nurgle daemon army and was wondering what the general response from the community would be if I put them on square bases instead of round so I could play fantasy with them too?

I have asked this question at one of the clubs I play at, and barring one guy who was worried about how square bases in 40K might mean less models getting into combat, there wasn't any real problem with it.

So, if I rolled up to a game with you of 40K with a daemon army on square bases, what (if any) would your objections be?

Also, what ideas would you have for overcoming them and still allowing me to use the army in both games?

you could always use round bases and make movement trays with round holes in it. That way you have round bases for 40k and a square unit in fantasy. Something like this http://www.wargamestournaments.com/acatalog/movement%20tray%2028mm%20round%20rank%2020.jpg

I wouldn't really like it. Keeping track of what your "real" base size/shape (since you have to measure range from a round base, not a square base) is supposed to be is just extra work, for an army I already hate.


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littlehorus wrote:
you could always use round bases and make movement trays with round holes in it. That way you have round bases for 40k and a square unit in fantasy. I will try to find a picture on google.

This would probably be illegal because the round bases don't fit together the same way as the square ones. The unit's footprint will be larger, potentially significantly larger depending on how you make the movement tray. In the picture you posted you can see the gap between the round holes in each row, which means your models are no longer in legal base contact formation.

littlehorus wrote:
you could always use round bases and make movement trays with round holes in it. That way you have round bases for 40k and a square unit in fantasy. Something like this http://www.wargamestournaments.com/acatalog/movement%20tray%2028mm%20round%20rank%2020.jpg

Fantasy daemons are on 20mm bases, 40k daemons are on 25mm bases. It's kind of hard fitting a 25mm base in a 20mm square.

Could always use magnets. Magnetic bases and pins or similar method to allow you to swap the figs from base to base.

Id be fine with it. Saves money and you can play 2 games for half the work too. You're on the right track. The square bases make no game difference to a sane nice person in 40k.

If it helps where I play nobody would the slightest.

Aren't models meant to be used with the bases supplied? Daemons are supplied with square bases (and round)... Doesn't bother me anyway.

Gone through exactly the same thing with my Daemon army. The 40k rules say that you must use the bases they are supplied with. So you can use the round or square bases as you see fit. Incidentally the Fantasy rules say the same thing, but since you need to rank them up, you must either use square bases or movement trays with cut-outs. The only reason to choose one over the other is for aesthetic reasons or if there are house/tournament rules that say otherwise.

Daemon infantry come with 25mm round and square bases (none of mine have ever come with the smaller 20mm square bases). Larger infantry come with 40mm round and square bases. So in both these cases you can use either square bases or round bases with a movement tray and everything will rank up fine when playing FB. You do need custom movement trays though if you want some with round cut-outs - the Lord Of The Rings cut-out bases spread things out a little bit too much. You can either make these with a couple of sheets of plasticard and a big drill or get them pre-made on ebay. I chose to use round bases and custom movement trays here because I play far more 40k than FB and I prefer the look of the round bases, particularly when allied to IG or CSM.

My cavalry/beast models only ever came on rectangular bases (metal Khorne Hounds and the old metal Seekers), so putting them on round bike bases would technically be cheating, but only an idiot would ever complain about this. I think the newer fine-cast hounds and plastic seekers might also come with round bike bases though. Both are 25mm wide, so the front/rear ranking is the same, but I think the length is different, so there would be problems with the side ranking. Also cut-out trays for bike bases are more of a pain to build and I never saw any in this size on ebay, so I just kept mine on their original rectangular bases.

Monstrous creatures are a pain though. In 40k they look better on round bases, but they won't rank up properly in FB (40k bases are 60mm round, FB are 50mm square). In you want to use them in both systems, you need to use square bases or do something clever with magnets.

Sadly too many are against using square bases in 40k and it's best to check with your local group/tournament

Also, too many seem to mistakenly assume 40k = square bases even though there's no such rule.

I refuse to buy my army twice though.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Id be fine with it. Saves money and you can play 2 games for half the work too. You're on the right track. The square bases make no game difference to a sane nice person in 40k.

If it helps where I play nobody would the slightest.

This.

I wouldn't have a problem in the slightest. I don't believe anyone in or around my local group would care in the slightest.

Obviously it lies with your opponent, but, personally speaking, if someone decided that they did have a problem with it, then it's fine. I don't want to play a game with someone who is going to split hairs over millimeters, so it's probably best to find out before you've even deployed.

You're really not supposed to have square bases for 40k, as everything is measured from the base and although I haven't had first hand experience playing with or against square bases in 40k, I can see how I and others may find it annoying. It would give your models a tiny bit more reach in some scenarios which, depending on who you are playing with, may be a problem. Myself, I would accept playing a friendly game against square bases but I would be a bit annoyed at it in a tournament.

 -Loki- wrote:

littlehorus wrote:
you could always use round bases and make movement trays with round holes in it. That way you have round bases for 40k and a square unit in fantasy. Something like this http://www.wargamestournaments.com/acatalog/movement%20tray%2028mm%20round%20rank%2020.jpg

Fantasy daemons are on 20mm bases, 40k daemons are on 25mm bases. It's kind of hard fitting a 25mm base in a 20mm square.

I'm a bit of a dumbarse and am not 100% sure of the sizes of the bases but I can assure you that they do fit inside the movement trays as I have a daemons army which I do this with.

Use the movement trays with round bases. Magnetising comes across as a pain and this is soooo easy.

I wouldn't mind, since I've done it myself for years in friendly games and tournaments and never got any complaints. It's like in Epic when the bases got changed. There were advantages and disadvantages with the old square bases vs. the rectangular ones that came out.


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 alanmckenzie wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Id be fine with it. Saves money and you can play 2 games for half the work too. You're on the right track. The square bases make no game difference to a sane nice person in 40k.

If it helps where I play nobody would the slightest.

This.

I wouldn't have a problem in the slightest. I don't believe anyone in or around my local group would care in the slightest.

Obviously it lies with your opponent, but, personally speaking, if someone decided that they did have a problem with it, then it's fine. I don't want to play a game with someone who is going to split hairs over millimeters, so it's probably best to find out before you've even deployed.

This view right here is the ticket.

Buy some tiny magnets and take the time to magnetize everything.

Generally I don't have issues with it though. a few mm can make or break a game, but as long as your friendly, and if it ever comes up being some round bases to help measure.

Back on 5th daemons didn't have a lot of models, so a lot of daemon players used fantasy models. Things like chariots had no base sizes, and nothing close to what they are in 40k, so a lot just used fantasy bases with the chariots.

I don't care. If there are any arguments about range/distance, I'd err in your opponent's favor. If you are up front about that, it should ease a few ruffled feathers. In most games the few millimeters difference aren't going to make a difference. When they would, be open about it, and courteous.

If you do plan on playing competitively, I would invest in the proper bases. People get a little more finicky about stuff like this in tournaments.

Luckily for me, I don't play in tournaments and tend to only play with friends at a couple of local clubs.

Out of the guys I asked from one of the clubs, only one said he would have a problem with it. None of the others could care less.

I just thought it was a good way to get an army for 2 systems for the price of one without having to do a load of extra work magnetising bases or making movement trays.

If I do it, I will just have to remember the bring the right codex to each battle!

 rohansoldier wrote:
If I do it, I will just have to remember the bring the right codex to each battle!

And remember that they are called 'Army Books' in Fantasy
I would have no problems with it. People who complain about the 2 millimeter or so difference in size should go and find a life.

daemons in fantasy is 25mm basing
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440043a&prodId=prod1630117a

there is companies that make round slotted movement trays so that you can do what your after, i have a few of them myself. you thne use the movement trays for facings of the models etc etc..

I wouldn't have a problem with it. Some of my IG and SM 40k stuff came with only square bases.

Here are some maths.

Area of a 25mm square base: 625mm^2

Area of a 25 circular base: 490.625mm^2

It's a difference of 134.375mm^2. To put this into perspective, imagine a 10mm square and that's the difference between the two. Not a big enough disparity to mean the difference between victory and defeat in 40k imo.

 alanmckenzie wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Id be fine with it. Saves money and you can play 2 games for half the work too. You're on the right track. The square bases make no game difference to a sane nice person in 40k.

If it helps where I play nobody would the slightest.

This.

I wouldn't have a problem in the slightest. I don't believe anyone in or around my local group would care in the slightest.

Obviously it lies with your opponent, but, personally speaking, if someone decided that they did have a problem with it, then it's fine. I don't want to play a game with someone who is going to split hairs over millimeters, so it's probably best to find out before you've even deployed.

As per the above, and the internet is the only place I've ever heard people speak against square bases. Strangely enough, it's a viewpoint that doesn't often seem to translate to the real world.

If there's seriously a discrepancy worth complaining about, just have a couple appropriately-sized round bases on hand. Swap the model for the base, measure, replace.

I would have no issue with this.

 Peregrine wrote:
This would probably be illegal because the round bases don't fit together the same way as the square ones. The unit's footprint will be larger, potentially significantly larger depending on how you make the movement tray. In the picture you posted you can see the gap between the round holes in each row, which means your models are no longer in legal base contact formation.

That particular example is not a great one, yes. There are some movement trays out there that have the round bases properly touching, although you can also just use regular movement trays... there is no specific need for the circle insets in order for models to rank up on the tray. Just mark the 25 mm increments on the edge so you know where the corners of the bases should be.


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 -Loki- wrote:
Fantasy daemons are on 20mm bases, 40k daemons are on 25mm bases.

Fantasy Daemons are on 25mm bases, and always have been.

Use the round bases and they fit fine in movement trays. If they are not built yet then I highly recommend using the round bases.

If you already built them then I am fine either way. Just play it as the base it is. As long as the base is one of the ones it comes with then you are fine RAW and RAI wise.

So much misinformationin this thread..

As others have said, demons are always on 25mm square bases in WFB. There is no difference between a round and small base if you use proper movement trays because they're both the same size (one is just square).

You should always put demons on round bases, it's the smart thing to do if you want to cross-platform play them. If your friends go "derr dude WFB is square bases and those are rounded".. remind them that 25mm = 25mm and take a few mins to make new movement trays.

On another note, you'll be AMAZED how happier you are when you can actually pose, without problems, a full unit of blood letters because they are on round bases.

I think you'll really have trouble with the crazy OCD crowd. A 20mm or even 25mm square base gives you a big whopping several millimeters extra measuring range over a 25mm round base if you face the point towards the enemy. Likewise, the flat side actually hampers you just about that same amount of distance when faced towards the enemy.

I long for the days when this wasn't even considered an issue except by the crazies. As much as it sounds like a "back in my day....." argument, when I started probably 25% of models in 40K had square bases, like Ogryns on their square monster bases. 40mm round bases weren't even available from BW yet, and it was never a big deal.

It's a good thing the people with issues about bases never played Epic 40K, as there was never a strict base size, other than what was the minimum size. Each base "type" actually had a range of sizes it could be!

But that general rule is that it is always best to check with your opponent, or the group you will be rolling with, first. And the sentiment is very wise that you can and should use round bases in Warhammer due to movement trays, so put everything on those when you can. Round bases make everything in a formation fit soooooo much easier when you can rotate them to fit.

I wouldn't have a problem with it. I play for fun. If anything ever popped up that could cause problem, we would deal with it then.

I can't understand why people have problems with it. It's not a big deal. Then again, you will have people who will memorize the codex, memorize the rule book and ALL the Charts, but can't use a "counts as" because it will cause him problems when he plays.

If anything, it might be a disadvantage to you, because you can be hit on corners, where they might not on a round base.

If there is a problem, It is not a big deal to put a round base under the square base if anything "comes up". We play for fun. Anyone complaining about square bases is taking the game to seriously and most likely has a "I need to win with plastic toy soldiers" mentality, and would be best avoided then.

I think it speaks volumes of a persons character who vehmetly complains about square bases.


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In the end, we may as well not buy minis, and just play with plastic bases with a piece of tape on it to say what it is.

Personally, I would be fine with it. But I know a lot of people who probably wouldn't be. And you'd never be able to use the army for 40k tournaments.

Someone suggested magnets. That would be a good way to make sure no one could complain.

 somecallmeJack wrote:
And you'd never be able to use the army for 40k tournaments.

Sweeping absolutes like that are rarely true. I've never seen a tournament that rejected square based demons.

the manager at my local GW suggests using the LOTR bases as a good comprimise.