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Note that 40k 3E hit in the late 90s, and we're on 7E right now, so if we got back 12 years, I think it's 4E, 5E, 6E, 7E = 4 editions of 40k. Too bad the last 2 have been crap.
Yup, the last two versions of Blitz at least had it (I don't recall if the original blitz did though but it might have as well) as did starship troopers. I think it was a good idea in theory but never really implemented very well.
My recall is rusty, butI don't believe Blitz v1 had Priority Levels - that was added in the Locked&Loaded rules.
^ Your quote tags have gone wonky; that was Nomeny, not me.
I was actually meaning that Blitz (the first variant thereof) was the fourth edition of the wargame rules*, not that there have been four editions of Blitz itself. So, seven editions since 1994, compared with 40k's six editions since 1993 (when 2nd edition was released).
* 1st edition, 2nd edition, the "Miniatures Rules", then Blitz.
AndrewGPaul wrote: ^ Your quote tags have gone wonky; that was Nomeny, not me.
I was actually meaning that Blitz (the first variant thereof) was the fourth edition of the wargame rules*, not that there have been four editions of Blitz itself. So, seven editions since 1994, compared with 40k's six editions since 1993 (when 2nd edition was released).
* 1st edition, 2nd edition, the "Miniatures Rules", then Blitz.
HG released since 1995: 1st ed, 2nd ed, 3rd/Tactical (is that when they split off?), Blitz, L&L, Field Manual, Alpha test rules = 7 HG editions
40k: released since 1995: 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th: 5 editions
Now, that said, 40k has adopted a release schedule just as stupid as the one DP9 has traditionally had (replacing books/products after 1-3 years) while DP9 has with this living ruleset changed their own (hopefully permanently) to a more sensible one in the same timeframe. If GW hadn't cranked the stupid up to 11, they should have been at 4 editions compared with DP9's 7 during roughly the same timeframe of 23 years. I also may have missed an edition in there for HG as I didn't really pay attention from 2nd to Blitz's release.
GW at least just numbered their editions from the get-go. (Well, from 2nd, anyway.) There are no threads trying to figure out how many of editions of 40k there are, or what edition you're playing. That doesn't make it any less stupid, but it does make it a heck of a lot easier.
AndrewGPaul wrote: I was actually meaning that Blitz (the first variant thereof) was the fourth edition of the wargame rules*, not that there have been four editions of Blitz itself. So, seven editions since 1994, compared with 40k's six editions since 1993 (when 2nd edition was released).
* 1st edition, 2nd edition, the "Miniatures Rules", then Blitz.
HG released since 1995: 1st ed, 2nd ed, 3rd/Tactical (is that when they split off?), Blitz, L&L, Field Manual, Alpha test rules = 7 HG editions
40k: released since 1995: 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th: 5 editions
Now, that said, 40k has adopted a release schedule just as stupid as the one DP9 has traditionally had (replacing books/products after 1-3 years) while DP9 has with this living ruleset changed their own (hopefully permanently) to a more sensible one in the same timeframe. If GW hadn't cranked the stupid up to 11, they should have been at 4 editions compared with DP9's 7 during roughly the same timeframe of 23 years. I also may have missed an edition in there for HG as I didn't really pay attention from 2nd to Blitz's release.
Yeah, something like that, but definitely far too many of them, with multiple-year-long stretches between products/looks at a number of factions.
Gee, I'm a new player, I wonder which one I should pick up?
As opposed to:
Heavy Gear Tactical [1998]
[Heavy Gear Tactical Miniature Rules (2001)]
[Heavy Gear Silhouette Core Miniature Rules (2005)]
Heavy Gear Blitz [2006]
Heavy Gear Blitz Locked and Loaded [2008]
Heavy Gear Blitz Field Manual [2011]
[Heavy Gear Blitz Beta (2014)]
Shouldn't that list also include the 1st and second editions of the RPG since they had the fully functional and independent minis rules as a section in the back of the books? We tried the RPG for a bit but usually ended up playing the minis game only in our group. If so, the edition cycle DP9 has had for the miniatures portion of Heavy Gear is:
Spoiler:
Heavy Gear RPG 1st Ed [1995]
Heavy Gear RPG 2nd Ed [1997]
Heavy Gear Tactical [1998]
[Heavy Gear Tactical Miniature Rules (2001)]
[Heavy Gear Silhouette Core Miniature Rules (2005)]
Heavy Gear Blitz [2006]
Heavy Gear Blitz Locked and Loaded [2008]
Heavy Gear Blitz Field Manual [2011]
Heavy Gear Blitz Alpha/Beta/KS edition (2013/2014/2015)
So... 9 editions in 20 years...and that is considering the "alpha" and "beta" and "Kickstarter" rules releases as a single evolving conglomerate edition. I knew it was a lot but I don't think I've ever seen it listed year by year. I guess it is a good thing I missed the period between 1997 and 2006 specifically because of the 2nd edition RPG flip flop.
True enough, you could likewise add in the products & Gear Up emags that introduced or consolidated new rules and/or factions for stretches when the main books were delayed:
Old Company: Partial list, with miniature oriented products noted in red. (For the pre-Blitz! mini rules the Tactical & RPG sourcebooks still provided varying amounts of model data used in game.):
Spoiler:
Heavy Gear RPG (1st Ed) [July 1995] Field Guide(s): Northern Vehicles 1 & Southern Vehicles 1 [Dec 1995]
Field Guide(s): Northern Vehicles 2 & Southern Vehicles 2 [April 1996]
Tactical Air Support [May 1996]
Duelist's Handbook (1st edition) [Aug 1996]
Tactical Field Support: Artillery & Ground Warfare [Oct 1996]
Southern Army List One: Southern Republic (No other books were published in this format.) [Nov 1996]
Northern Vehicle Compendium One: Gears & Striders [Dec 1996]
Southern Vehicle Compendium One: Gears & Striders [Jan 1997]
Northern Record Sheets One & Southern Record Sheets One: Gears & Striders [Feb 1997]
The New Breed: Battle Before The Storm (Activision PC game tie-in #1.) [Sep 1997]
Heavy Gear RPG (2nd Ed) [Dec 1997] Northern Vehicles Compendium Two & Southern Vehicles Compendium Two: Tanks & Artillery [Feb 1998]
Heavy Gear Tactical [1998] Terranovan Military Powers Book One: Northern Guard [Aug 1998]
Tactical Pack One: Battle of Two Towers [Dec 1998]
Tactical Pack Two: Shadow War [March 1999]
Armor Pack Volume One: Tanks and Striders [May 1999]
Terranovan Military Powers Book Two: Southern MILICIA [Aug 1999]
Tactical Pack Three: Operation Sudden Fire [October 1999]
Black Talon - Mission to Caprice (Activision PC game tie-in #2.) [Jan 2000]
Tactical Space Support - Space Warfare [March 2000]
Duelist's Handbook (2nd edition) [Dec 2000]
Heavy Gear Tactical Miniature Rules [Feb 2001]
Earth Book One: Colonial Expeditionary Force [April 2001]
Raids & Raiders - Interstellar Strikes (Miniatures Supplement) [June 2001]
Tactical Dueling - Arena Champions (Miniatures Supplement) [Oct 2001]
Heavy Gear Player's Handbook (3rd Edition) [Sep 2003] Heavy Gear Vehicle Companion (3rd Edition) [Jany 2004]
New Company:
Spoiler:
Heavy Gear Silhouette Core Miniature Rules [2005]
(DP9 ceased producing RPGs between 2006 - 2008 for their entire game catalog, including Heavy Gear.)
Heavy Gear Blitz [Aug 2006]
- Heavy Gear Blitz! Hammers of Faith (North) [Dec 2006]
- Heavy Gear Blitz! Swords of Pride (South) [Mar 2007]
- Heavy Gear Blitz! Shields of Freedom (Peace River) [Dec 2007]
Heavy Gear Blitz Locked and Loaded [May 2008]
- Black Talon: Return to Cat's Eye (Caprice, CEF, Black Talons) [May 2009]
- Shattered Peace: The War for Terra Nova Book 1 (Eden) [2010]
- Terra Nova Gambit: The War for Terra Nova Book 2 (Utopia) [2010]
- Gear Up (Utopian rules primer & template, Field Testing: Defense Modifiers, Errata) [Issue 1 - Spring 2010] pdf
- Gear Up (Medical Support Section rules, The Drop Bears Diggers rules, Field Testing: Revised Range Bands, Errata, Quick Reference Flowcharts) [Issue 2 - Summer 2010] pdf
- Gear Up (Field Testing: HHT-90 Combat Group & Multi-Component Vehicle Rules, Field Testing: New Overkill Rules, Revisions & Errata, Southern Medical Support Section, PRDF Medical Section, PAK/CEF Medical Section) [Issue 3 - Winter 2010] pdf
- Gear Up (Combat Engineering Companies, Official Rules: New Heavy Hover Tank combat group) [Issue 4 - Summer 2011] pdf
- Gear Up (Captain Alston Ash-Dreyes: NuCoal Special Character) [Issue 5 - Winter 2012] pdf
- Gear Up (Lieutenant Colonel Mikhaela Moore: NuCoal Special Character, Constable Keiko Hijikawa: Drake Pilot & Ace Special Character) [Issue 6 - Spring 2013] pdf
Heavy Gear Arena (Unsupported after release save for a Gear Up article or two.) [2010]
Heavy Gear Blitz Field Manual (Consolidation of Gear Up field testing rules with a partial reprint of Locked & Loaded) [Nov 2011]
- Heavy Gear Blitz! Perfect Storm; NuCoal Field Guide [Nov 2011]
- Heavy Gear Blitz! Forged in Fire; Southern Field Guide [~late Dec 2012]
- Heavy Gear Blitz! Blood Debt; Peace River Army List [Dec 2013] pdf
- Heavy Gear Blitz! Lion's Wrath; Northern Army List [June 2014] pdf
Heavy Gear Badlands Rally (Unsupported stand-alone tabletop game introducing rule concepts similar to the Alpha/Beta ruleset) [2013]
Heavy Gear Blitz! Field Support Guide (Consolidation of Gear Up material & unsupported factions to Field Manual rules) [2014] pdf
Heavy Gear Blitz Alpha/Beta/KS edition [~late 2012/2013/2014/2015]
Shouldn't that list also include the 1st and second editions of the RPG since they had the fully functional and independent minis rules as a section in the back of the books? We tried the RPG for a bit but usually ended up playing the minis game only in our group. If so, the edition cycle DP9 has had for the miniatures portion of Heavy Gear is:
Heavy Gear RPG 1st Ed [1995]
Heavy Gear RPG 2nd Ed [1997]
Heavy Gear Tactical [1998]
[Heavy Gear Tactical Miniature Rules (2001)]
[Heavy Gear Silhouette Core Miniature Rules (2005)]
Heavy Gear Blitz [2006]
Heavy Gear Blitz Locked and Loaded [2008]
Heavy Gear Blitz Field Manual [2011]
Heavy Gear Blitz Alpha/Beta/KS edition (2013/2014/2015)
Hm... yes and no. Up until Blitz!, the actual rules changes were quite a bit minimum. Only real change on those was the default damage system on the Tactical rules (similar to Blitz!'s, but even less complicated), where the "full" damage tracking rules from the RPG were optional.
The SilCORE miniature rules had a couple of small changes, but it still was 95% compatible with the previous stuff. Most of the changes between those editions I'd sau were on the "look and feel" category.
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"These reports were remarkably free of self-serving rhetoric. Most commanders admitted mistakes, scrutinized plans and doctrine, and suggested practical improvements." - Col. Joseph H. Alexander, USMC (Ret), from 'Utmost Savagery, The Three Days of Tarawa''
"I tell you there is something splendid in a man who will not always obey. Why, if we had done as the kings had told us five hundred years ago, we should have all been slaves. If we had done as the priests told us, we should have all been idiots. If we had done as the doctors told us, we should have all been dead.
We have been saved by disobedience." - Robert G. Ingersoll
"At this point, I'll be the first to admit it, I so do not give them the benefit of the doubt that, if they saved all the children and puppies from a burning orphanage, I would probably suspect them of having started the fire. " - mrondeau, on DP9
"No factual statement should be relied upon without further investigation on your part sufficient to satisfy you in your independent judgment that it is true." - Small Wars Journal
GW did a decent job with compatibility for 40k. RT & 2E are compatible. 3E to 5E is basically folding FAQs and Errata into the main rules. 6E and 7E are basically the same game.
And yes, GW numbering the editions was a good thing, so everybody knew what they were playing.
It was Blitz where things started to get complicated; it wasn't helped by their practise of continuing to bundle the 1.0 rules with all the Blitz 1.1 publications on DriveThru RPG.
Heavy Gear is one of the few games where my entire army is painted (apart from a few of the old 2nd edition Battleframes which were retconned out anyway. I even converted up the mountain-terrain and space Frames, variants of the 6-16. Those bizarrely brightly-coloured images in the art books actually look pretty good on miniatures )
Automatically Appended Next Post: Anyway, to change the tone a little, here's a painted battle frame:
Both forearms and the shoulder are magnetised, as is the front of the rocket pod and the engine, so I can do any of the variant equipment options.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/20 09:31:50
Ah, Heavy Gear Assault's deleting threads they don't like, in the grand Heavy Gear tradition. The one asking for an official response to the rumours got a rather nasty comment the other night, and now the whole thing's gone.
@Fire: No, sorry, no screencaps here. I haven't been back since the original day of dissent purge where even the whitest of knights had blemishes on their gleaming armor albeit temporarily.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AndrewGPaul wrote: Ironically, slogging through 71 pages of why DP9 is rubbish, and Warboss' blog thread has inspired me to take some more photos of my minis:
warboss wrote: @Fire: No, sorry, no screencaps here. I haven't been back since the original day of dissent purge where even the whitest of knights had blemishes on their gleaming armor albeit temporarily.
Aw well. In the grand scheme of things it's probably not going to be worth remembering, anyway.
"Hey remember that time when you didn't pay your employees?"
"Haha, yeah. Whacky."
2016/01/27 20:06:50
Subject: Re:[Heavy Gear] General Discussion Thread
"These reports were remarkably free of self-serving rhetoric. Most commanders admitted mistakes, scrutinized plans and doctrine, and suggested practical improvements." - Col. Joseph H. Alexander, USMC (Ret), from 'Utmost Savagery, The Three Days of Tarawa''
"I tell you there is something splendid in a man who will not always obey. Why, if we had done as the kings had told us five hundred years ago, we should have all been slaves. If we had done as the priests told us, we should have all been idiots. If we had done as the doctors told us, we should have all been dead.
We have been saved by disobedience." - Robert G. Ingersoll
"At this point, I'll be the first to admit it, I so do not give them the benefit of the doubt that, if they saved all the children and puppies from a burning orphanage, I would probably suspect them of having started the fire. " - mrondeau, on DP9
"No factual statement should be relied upon without further investigation on your part sufficient to satisfy you in your independent judgment that it is true." - Small Wars Journal
2016/01/28 03:22:17
Subject: Re:[Heavy Gear] General Discussion Thread
I may have missed the boat on this, but where in any of the codex or rules books GW has released for 40K has it ever said what edition it is for?
I just got up and looked at a couple of my older edition Space Wolf Codexii- the ones from RT days all the ways up to the most current, and no where in the Codex does it say "This Codex is for Warhammer 40,000 X edition".
Looking at the rules book (both the mini and bigger white book), they also say "Warhammer 40,000" and nowhere do they make a reference to an edition.
So while we, the consumer/player/whatever and maybe the occasional GW employee might refer to "7th edition Warhammer 40,000", it's actually nowhere listed as such in the products itself. Even the GW online store makes no mention of an edition of 40K.
Forge World is HUGELY notorious for this. They keep reprinting books for later "editions" without editing the title or making any kind of mention that the book has been re-written, re-printed, whatever. Imagine my surprise when I ordered "Imperial Armor Volume Eleven- The Doom of Mymeara" and received the "older" edition and not the latest one! Yeah, I made a fuss about it, and for the low, low cost of Forge World's International Shipping Rates, I could have returned it and got the new book instead. Thus, spending twice the amount on IA 11 (enough to buy two of them!).
For Dream Pod 9, I made a huge stink about this several years ago on the website- basically saying the game is unplayable for a newbie because he has no clue which rule book is current, which one requires another book, where to find information, and oh, throw out all the stuff on army building and use this army builder a player built that we endorse (but don't pay for!). When the new edition was announced, I thought for sure they would just call it "Heavy Gear: A Tactical Miniatures Game of Mecha Combat" or some such. But oh no! "Heavy Gear Blitz!- not to be confused with Heavy Gear Blitz that we just released a year ago, and not to be confused with the subset rules called Heavy Gear Blitz that we released the year before that, and definitely NOT the same Heavy Gear Blitz that we released before that either!"
And even though Robert, John, and the head of the Pod Squad at the time all sent me separate e-mails about it, the title still remains Heavy Gear Blitz. I pretty much stopped talking to them after that. It was pretty obvious they were not listening to anything I said.
Kara Sloan shoots through Time and Design Space for a Negative Play Experience
40k never references the edition because the codex aren't lock and step with the editions but instead frequently straddle multiple. The common sense regarding it is that you only consider the most recent version as valid for pickup games. It's gotten worse in the past two years/two editions as books that previously would have lasted 4+ years are being rehashed/replaced after 1-2 years. I had several trades in the swap shop and bartertown fall apart because folks didn't pay attention to the names, the cover art, and the edition description I included in my ads.
So the older Mymaera book was sold/shipped to you AFTER they came out with the new one? As soon as the new book is released, they need to stop selling the previous one (ideally they should stop months before). If so, that was a douche move on the part of FW especially if they wanted to charge you twice or thrice (return shipping?) for their mistake.
I agree about the nomenclature for HG as well and have stated so multiple times here as well as initially with the public release of the rules when it was announced that it would still be called "blitz" (which wasn't the case during the concept phase testing).
It wasn't the edition changes that confused me with HGB!. It was the fact that they kept bundling the 1.0 rulebook with all the supplements (and with the 1.1 rulebook!) on Drive Thru RPG.
As for FW, Tamwulf, they may be allowed to require that you post the book back (as opposed to sending you a return shipping label (à la Amazon), but I'm sure they should then reimburse you for the costs.
The relevant legislation would be the Consumer Rights Act 2015, the EU Consumer Rights Directive and the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2014.
Samuli Aura, Today at 06:52 AM, wrote:I'm tinkering with the layout for datacards. The idea being that although DP9 are skipping datacards for this edition of the game, some people are used to having them for in-game reference, and also a an analog army building method: Simply print datacards for all models in your collection and choose your force by picking cards from the pack. Although the optional updates mix this stuff up a little, I think the basis is solid.
(Note that I'm still planning to support complete "army building", including options, etc. hopefully by the time the KS delivers.) [..]
Leaving aside the continuation of a non-official program as the ''official'' army builder program for NuBlitz, I must have completely missed that there will be no Pod-generated datacards for the LRB.
I had seen mentions before on the forums during the past year or so of folks coming up with their own until the rules were more or less hashed out in the version to only be updated every six months, but not that there won't be datacards period?
Guess another quick dive through the rules PDF is needed here this weekend; if true, rather a strange decision after so many years of specifically making a point to use this kind of game aid.
warboss wrote: @Smilodon: Thanks for the recap/reminder. It took me a little over a year but I ended up circling back to where I started.
lol, yeah, another milestone reached in the great holding pattern that is liking Heavy Gear.
Firebreak wrote: Ah, Heavy Gear Assault's deleting threads they don't like, in the grand Heavy Gear tradition. The one asking for an official response to the rumours got a rather nasty comment the other night, and now the whole thing's gone.
Anybody get a screencap for posterity?
Tamwulf wrote: [..] And even though Robert, John, and the head of the Pod Squad at the time all sent me separate e-mails about it, the title still remains Heavy Gear Blitz. I pretty much stopped talking to them after that. It was pretty obvious they were not listening to anything I said.
warboss wrote: [..] I agree about the nomenclature for HG as well and have stated so multiple times here as well as initially with the public release of the rules when it was announced that it would still be called "blitz" (which wasn't the case during the concept phase testing).
All I can figure on this one is that TPTB at the Pod are of the point of view they can achieve some kind of brand recognition by reusing the name as well as not having to simply throw away all of their legacy advertising materials, templates, and the like.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/01/29 19:19:21
"These reports were remarkably free of self-serving rhetoric. Most commanders admitted mistakes, scrutinized plans and doctrine, and suggested practical improvements." - Col. Joseph H. Alexander, USMC (Ret), from 'Utmost Savagery, The Three Days of Tarawa''
"I tell you there is something splendid in a man who will not always obey. Why, if we had done as the kings had told us five hundred years ago, we should have all been slaves. If we had done as the priests told us, we should have all been idiots. If we had done as the doctors told us, we should have all been dead.
We have been saved by disobedience." - Robert G. Ingersoll
"At this point, I'll be the first to admit it, I so do not give them the benefit of the doubt that, if they saved all the children and puppies from a burning orphanage, I would probably suspect them of having started the fire. " - mrondeau, on DP9
"No factual statement should be relied upon without further investigation on your part sufficient to satisfy you in your independent judgment that it is true." - Small Wars Journal
Or they licensed off the rights to the simple "Heavy Gear" name without any further suffixes to the RPG or video game. I'd guess the latter since the video game got the url "www.heavygear.com" instead of "www.heavygearassault.com" which is the actual name of the game supposedly.
warboss wrote: Or they licensed off the rights to the simple "Heavy Gear" name without any further suffixes to the RPG or video game. I'd guess the latter since the video game got the url "www.heavygear.com" instead of "www.heavygearassault.com" which is the actual name of the game supposedly.
That... surely not... oh my god. SURELY not.
2016/01/30 14:33:14
Subject: Re:[Heavy Gear] General Discussion Thread
warboss wrote: Or they licensed off the rights to the simple "Heavy Gear" name without any further suffixes to the RPG or video game. I'd guess the latter since the video game got the url "www.heavygear.com" instead of "www.heavygearassault.com" which is the actual name of the game supposedly.
That... surely not... oh my god. SURELY not.
I can only guess given the "ownership" of the URLs. It seemed monumentally stupid for a video game company of Stompy's calibre to "get" the main IP's name as a url. YMMV.
Firebreak wrote:Arkrite's Heavy Gear page doesn't exist anymore. Anybody got any news about them?
We had errors and broken pages a few months back surrounded by even more months of silence and complete lack of progress (I believe we talked about it here in the thread in 2015). The page went up back after that albeit apparently temporarily. I don't know if that worries you or comforts you but it's been a thing previously.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/30 15:57:49
warboss wrote: You can put me in as an absentee vote for 30-40... but just barely!
yoiks - where do the years go? I mean, c'mon, just yesterday, er, only a few years back back, I was, ...so not 40-odd with a niece & nephew already in high school who're soon to be begging for actual vehicles ....
Gawd.
Is it too late to try and hide out by building a fort with the sofa cushions?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/05 21:45:28
"These reports were remarkably free of self-serving rhetoric. Most commanders admitted mistakes, scrutinized plans and doctrine, and suggested practical improvements." - Col. Joseph H. Alexander, USMC (Ret), from 'Utmost Savagery, The Three Days of Tarawa''
"I tell you there is something splendid in a man who will not always obey. Why, if we had done as the kings had told us five hundred years ago, we should have all been slaves. If we had done as the priests told us, we should have all been idiots. If we had done as the doctors told us, we should have all been dead.
We have been saved by disobedience." - Robert G. Ingersoll
"At this point, I'll be the first to admit it, I so do not give them the benefit of the doubt that, if they saved all the children and puppies from a burning orphanage, I would probably suspect them of having started the fire. " - mrondeau, on DP9
"No factual statement should be relied upon without further investigation on your part sufficient to satisfy you in your independent judgment that it is true." - Small Wars Journal
-- $k 
-- 9k 
-- 6k 
-- 4k 
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)
