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 Vaktathi wrote:
Another thing that makes the IG cool is that nobody has the same raw firepower as the IG do. Tau and Eldar have can manuever better and have some gimmicks to make their firepower count, but nobody turns a table into a cratered wasteland like the IG can.

You want 9 ordnance barrage blast weapons? Go for it.

You want 30 lascannons in a list? No problem.

Yep, an army that is inherently gunline survives rather well in the shooting 6th edition.

IG did well in the Armor Edition, too. They did pretty good in the Assault Edition by shooting the gak out of the Assaulters before they got into charge range.

Never said they didn't, but the present is what concerns most people.

Just pointing out that the IG is the one army that never really suffers a hard-counter to its whole bag of tricks.

Sure, certain things hard-counter certain specific builds (like horde armies vs the low-model-count Armored Fist IG armies) but the IG Codex offers something for everyone to keep your army viable and interesting.

It is not, for example, Codex Tau, which (basically) has 2 tricks it can pull, and denied those tricks drops off rather sharply on the power level. Still good at shooting, but lacking the leafblower capability of the IG without all its unit synergies. Also lacking the IG's artillery pie-plates in general.

 tuebor wrote:

 Haight wrote:
Also, armies of mostly tanks. What's not to like ?

My average Guard list has no more than 3 tanks or so. Sometimes I run no tanks and 200+ Guardsmen. What I like about the Guard is that regular humans can fight against extragalactic space monsters and literal daemons from hell and win. I like the idea that, as weak as a single human is, Humanity as a whole can be the thing that bumps in the night.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
You should play me, then. A typical 2000 point army for my has ~11 models.

I would love to play a list like that with one of my all infantry lists.

Then between our two ends of the pendulum, we can add "versatility in playstyle".

 Vaktathi wrote:
Another thing that makes the IG cool is that nobody has the same raw firepower as the IG do. Tau and Eldar have can manuever better and have some gimmicks to make their firepower count, but nobody turns a table into a cratered wasteland like the IG can.

You want 9 ordnance barrage blast weapons? Go for it.

You want 30 lascannons in a list? No problem.

They actually don't. They can put out more large blasts(and that is only if you are discounting the R'varna) s and that is IT. Also, large blasts really aren't that great with so many MCs running around.

For 75points(3 Autocannon Teams) guard gets 3 Str 7 AP 4 hits on a weak base
For 65 points(1 Broadside) points tau gets 3 Str 7 AP 4 hits and 3 Str 5 AP 5 hits on a tough base.
Ouch. Tougher, shootier, and cheaper.

Guard cannot even hope to rival broadsides and missile drones in terms of firepower and resiliency to point cost.

That is just an example. Tau are much more efficient in almost every regard. The buffmander is OP. Guard has nothing remotely even remotely comparable to a riptide. Compare one to a russ and lament.

Off-table Artillery.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Another thing that makes the IG cool is that nobody has the same raw firepower as the IG do. Tau and Eldar have can manuever better and have some gimmicks to make their firepower count, but nobody turns a table into a cratered wasteland like the IG can.

You want 9 ordnance barrage blast weapons? Go for it.

You want 30 lascannons in a list? No problem.

They actually don't. They can put out more large blasts(and that is only if you are discounting the R'varna) s and that is IT. Also, large blasts really aren't that great with so many MCs running around.

For 75points(3 Autocannon Teams) guard gets 3 Str 7 AP 4 hits on a weak base
For 65 points(1 Broadside) points tau gets 3 Str 7 AP 4 hits and 3 Str 5 AP 5 hits on a tough base.
Ouch. Tougher, shootier, and cheaper.

Guard cannot even hope to rival broadsides and missile drones in terms of firepower and resiliency to point cost.

That is just an example. Tau are much more efficient in almost every regard. The buffmander is OP. Guard has nothing remotely even remotely comparable to a riptide. Compare one to a russ and lament.

Can tau bring in 150 ish men as scoring... I am sure if 15 bare bone squads armed with krack grenades (costing round 1005) (thats 165 scoring men) spread them all out in spereate squads and just ran forward they could beat many lists. In combat each man has a S6 AP4 attack against heavy stuff and most units can at best kill 10 a trun (as all the squads are seperate) (not counting blasts which may not be great once they are all spread out). Then in a 2000 pount game you can double that (minus 1 squad and krak grenades for a company command) giving you a total of 325 men. For i think just at 2000 points. I dont see tau being able to take that on. Especially if they all spread out and just run forward. Thats a lot of bodies to kill.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Another thing that makes the IG cool is that nobody has the same raw firepower as the IG do. Tau and Eldar have can manuever better and have some gimmicks to make their firepower count, but nobody turns a table into a cratered wasteland like the IG can.

You want 9 ordnance barrage blast weapons? Go for it.

You want 30 lascannons in a list? No problem.

They actually don't. They can put out more large blasts(and that is only if you are discounting the R'varna) s and that is IT. Also, large blasts really aren't that great with so many MCs running around.

For 75points(3 Autocannon Teams) guard gets 3 Str 7 AP 4 hits on a weak base
For 65 points(1 Broadside) points tau gets 3 Str 7 AP 4 hits and 3 Str 5 AP 5 hits on a tough base.
Ouch. Tougher, shootier, and cheaper.

Guard cannot even hope to rival broadsides and missile drones in terms of firepower and resiliency to point cost.

That is just an example. Tau are much more efficient in almost every regard. The buffmander is OP. Guard has nothing remotely even remotely comparable to a riptide. Compare one to a russ and lament.

Can tau bring in 150 ish men as scoring... I am sure if 15 bare bone squads armed with krack grenades (costing round 1005) (thats 165 scoring men) spread them all out in spereate squads and just ran forward they could beat many lists. In combat each man has a S6 AP4 attack against heavy stuff and most units can at best kill 10 a trun (as all the squads are seperate) (not counting blasts which may not be great once they are all spread out). Then in a 2000 pount game you can double that (minus 1 squad and krak grenades for a company command) giving you a total of 325 men. For i think just at 2000 points. I dont see tau being able to take that on. Especially if they all spread out and just run forward. Thats a lot of bodies to kill.

Tau actually could with kroot, but in general, I concede, no. They do not bring that many. Also keep in mind that morale is a factor.

3 Broadsides with Missile Drones, for I think 267 points can kill about 18 guardsmen per turn. S. A iontide could probably kill about 13 guardsmen since spreading out is impossible with 325 men. With 2 Iontides and 3 broadside teams you can kill 80 guardsmen per turn. This means everything guard will be dead by turn 4. This is all with about 1200 points of tau. With 800 points left for even more firepower.

And that assumes guard fails no morale checks(which they will).

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Another thing that makes the IG cool is that nobody has the same raw firepower as the IG do. Tau and Eldar have can manuever better and have some gimmicks to make their firepower count, but nobody turns a table into a cratered wasteland like the IG can.

You want 9 ordnance barrage blast weapons? Go for it.

You want 30 lascannons in a list? No problem.

They actually don't. They can put out more large blasts(and that is only if you are discounting the R'varna) s and that is IT. Also, large blasts really aren't that great with so many MCs running around.

For 75points(3 Autocannon Teams) guard gets 3 Str 7 AP 4 hits on a weak base
For 65 points(1 Broadside) points tau gets 3 Str 7 AP 4 hits and 3 Str 5 AP 5 hits on a tough base.
Ouch. Tougher, shootier, and cheaper.

Guard cannot even hope to rival broadsides and missile drones in terms of firepower and resiliency to point cost.

That is just an example. Tau are much more efficient in almost every regard. The buffmander is OP. Guard has nothing remotely even remotely comparable to a riptide. Compare one to a russ and lament.

Can tau bring in 150 ish men as scoring... I am sure if 15 bare bone squads armed with krack grenades (costing round 1005) (thats 165 scoring men) spread them all out in spereate squads and just ran forward they could beat many lists. In combat each man has a S6 AP4 attack against heavy stuff and most units can at best kill 10 a trun (as all the squads are seperate) (not counting blasts which may not be great once they are all spread out). Then in a 2000 pount game you can double that (minus 1 squad and krak grenades for a company command) giving you a total of 325 men. For i think just at 2000 points. I dont see tau being able to take that on. Especially if they all spread out and just run forward. Thats a lot of bodies to kill.

Tau actually could with kroot, but in general, I concede, no. They do not bring that many. Also keep in mind that morale is a factor.

3 Broadsides with Missile Drones, for I think 267 points can kill about 18 guardsmen per turn. S. A iontide could probably kill about 13 guardsmen since spreading out is impossible with 325 men. With 2 Iontides and 3 broadside teams you can kill 80 guardsmen per turn. This means everything guard will be dead by turn 4. This is all with about 1200 points of tau. With 800 points left for even more firepower.

And that assumes guard fails no morale checks(which they will).

Can all of that split their fire? Any solid rounds from a squad can only kill 10 men at most. And beleive me, spreading out your men is easy with some spare hands on deck to move for you. So reduce those blasts kills, and each broadside team can kill 10 men unless they can split their shooting.

And as a side note tau look desgusting when put next to good IG mnodels

Im doing this because some people forget how scary a man and his lasgun is when backed up by 300.

This may not be accurite so let me know if i am wrong.

"A single lasgun doesn't do diddly, but 50 lasguns? That's a whole lotta diddly!"

 Psienesis wrote:
"A single lasgun doesn't do diddly, but 50 lasguns? That's a whole lotta diddly!"

 Da Ork Killa wrote:
But I was curious, why are they so liked?

Tanks!

Tanks tanks tanks tanks tanks tanks tanks!

That is all.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Another thing that makes the IG cool is that nobody has the same raw firepower as the IG do. Tau and Eldar have can manuever better and have some gimmicks to make their firepower count, but nobody turns a table into a cratered wasteland like the IG can.

You want 9 ordnance barrage blast weapons? Go for it.

You want 30 lascannons in a list? No problem.

They actually don't. They can put out more large blasts(and that is only if you are discounting the R'varna) s and that is IT. Also, large blasts really aren't that great with so many MCs running around.

For 75points(3 Autocannon Teams) guard gets 3 Str 7 AP 4 hits on a weak base
For 65 points(1 Broadside) points tau gets 3 Str 7 AP 4 hits and 3 Str 5 AP 5 hits on a tough base.
Ouch. Tougher, shootier, and cheaper.

Guard cannot even hope to rival broadsides and missile drones in terms of firepower and resiliency to point cost.

That is just an example. Tau are much more efficient in almost every regard. The buffmander is OP. Guard has nothing remotely even remotely comparable to a riptide. Compare one to a russ and lament.

Can tau bring in 150 ish men as scoring... I am sure if 15 bare bone squads armed with krack grenades (costing round 1005) (thats 165 scoring men) spread them all out in spereate squads and just ran forward they could beat many lists. In combat each man has a S6 AP4 attack against heavy stuff and most units can at best kill 10 a trun (as all the squads are seperate) (not counting blasts which may not be great once they are all spread out). Then in a 2000 pount game you can double that (minus 1 squad and krak grenades for a company command) giving you a total of 325 men. For i think just at 2000 points. I dont see tau being able to take that on. Especially if they all spread out and just run forward. Thats a lot of bodies to kill.

Tau actually could with kroot, but in general, I concede, no. They do not bring that many. Also keep in mind that morale is a factor.

3 Broadsides with Missile Drones, for I think 267 points can kill about 18 guardsmen per turn. S. A iontide could probably kill about 13 guardsmen since spreading out is impossible with 325 men. With 2 Iontides and 3 broadside teams you can kill 80 guardsmen per turn. This means everything guard will be dead by turn 4. This is all with about 1200 points of tau. With 800 points left for even more firepower.

And that assumes guard fails no morale checks(which they will).

Can all of that split their fire? Any solid rounds from a squad can only kill 10 men at most. And beleive me, spreading out your men is easy with some spare hands on deck to move for you. So reduce those blasts kills, and each broadside team can kill 10 men unless they can split their shooting.

And as a side note tau look desgusting when put next to good IG mnodels

Im doing this because some people forget how scary a man and his lasgun is when backed up by 300.

This may not be accurite so let me know if i am wrong.

I agree about the models. Tau suck.

However.

Spreading out is difficult by virtue of having to fit everything. You could scour them off objectives and keep them out of effective range VERY easily. Tau are just better than guard. Sucks to say, but its true.

Maybe Tau are better in some cases, but in the long run, Human > Xenos.

 Psienesis wrote:
And they keep coming back for more.

You don't seem to grasp that all of those things you mentioned... Eldar, Orks, Tyranid, Daemons and Space Marines, are all super-human space monsters (even the Space Marines).

And yet, the IG goes out to fight them, every day, being just regular people.

*That* is what makes the IG a cool faction for a lot of players.

By that logic, Elliot Stabler is cooler than Robocop.

 SRSFACE wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
And they keep coming back for more.

You don't seem to grasp that all of those things you mentioned... Eldar, Orks, Tyranid, Daemons and Space Marines, are all super-human space monsters (even the Space Marines).

And yet, the IG goes out to fight them, every day, being just regular people.

*That* is what makes the IG a cool faction for a lot of players.

By that logic, Elliot Stabler is cooler than Robocop.

Better metaphor is Mike Zavala cooler than Robocop. And yeah, he is.

Simply, some people, in my experience usually older guys (and I dont mean it offensively, just my experience) simply prefer the feeling of mere humans, underdogs in universe of terrible horror, standing on their own again and again.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
3 Broadsides with Missile Drones, for I think 267 points can kill about 18 guardsmen per turn.

Except you're ignoring range here. The Broadsides can only shoot 36" away, which means it's going to take a turn or two of not shooting before they can get into range of scoring platoons camped on objectives at the back of the deployment zone, and the Broadsides are going to be suicidally exposed out in front of the rest of the Tau gunline. Meanwhile the IG have 48" range with lascannons hidden in meatshield blobs, and each of those shots is instant death to an expensive Broadside, along with a variety of vehicle heavy weapons (Vendettas, LR Executioners that Tau can hardly even attempt to roll dice against, etc) that are great at killing elite infantry.

Plus, when all else fails there's always the Stormblade. Tau are pretty much helpless against a superheavy that comes with adequate anti-deep-strike protection, since even escalating to the D-weapon Tigershark (their only hope of stopping the superheavy) just means that their opponents can bring their D-spam titans without guilt.

 UlrikDecado wrote:

 SRSFACE wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
And they keep coming back for more.

You don't seem to grasp that all of those things you mentioned... Eldar, Orks, Tyranid, Daemons and Space Marines, are all super-human space monsters (even the Space Marines).

And yet, the IG goes out to fight them, every day, being just regular people.

*That* is what makes the IG a cool faction for a lot of players.

By that logic, Elliot Stabler is cooler than Robocop.

Better metaphor is Mike Zavala cooler than Robocop. And yeah, he is.

Simply, some people, in my experience usually older guys (and I dont mean it offensively, just my experience) simply prefer the feeling of mere humans, underdogs in universe of terrible horror, standing on their own again and again.

Mere humans? You mean, like Sly Marbo?

 AtoMaki wrote:


Mere humans? You mean, like Sly Marbo?

YESSSS! And for that, you get an Exalt!

They are amazing, mere men against the horrors of the galaxy, sirly english accents, awesome tanks and aircraft <3

Unless they're Tanith. Seems the Tanith have Scots, Irish and Welsh accents, going by the audio book at least.

2 Reasons.

1) Because they're the underdogs in comparison to other factions in many ways; they're not genetically enhanced super soldiers, nor huge and savage, nor able to reconstruct themselves, fly around in fancy Crisis Suits, or utilize lightning quick inherent reactions and agility- its Joe Bloggs with his lasgun VS the Galaxy.

Its watching a piece of ordnance not too far from the weapons of our own time, like a battlecannon or basilisk gun, annihilate the deadly masters of the future. Its seeing your Veteran Sergeant in his armour that may as well be made of cardboard in the 41st Millenium precision shot an 8ft armoured monstrosity like a Space Marine with a shotgun shell or kill a Daemon Prince when all is almost lost. I've had both and a score more of those sorts of instances occur.

2) Because their armoury makes you giggle with glee. Its brutal, raw killing power at its finest.

No screwing about with garbage like Whirlwind. What a load of trash, it may as well be projecting assorted fart noises at the enemies of Man. If you want a real artillery piece you get a Basilisk. If you want a tank that isn't just a vehicle equipped with your infantry's heavy weapons (Predators) you have Leman Russes with proper heavy guns.

Like many times said, IG offers me great flexibility in playstile and modelling. I can do almost whatever i want.

Foot blob army? No problem.
Fully mechanized army? No problem.
Air cavalry? No problem.
Armoured battalion? No problem.
Artillery detachment? No problem.
Drop troops? No Problem.
Gunline? Possible too.

Try create something similiar in other races. It won't be so simply like for IG.

In case of modelling and painting, in other races you are limited by their apperance and avalible bits.
Can you create Roman Legionnaire, Medieval knight or prehistoric caveman with lasgun? Yes.
Now try it with a Space marine or Eldar. It won't be so easy.

next thing, you can create fluff wise Renegade guard, Tau auxillary unit, DEldar slaves etc...

Without the Imperial Guard, Marines would be the baseline - when everyone is special, no one is.

I watched Starship Troopers when I was a nipper, and Greydians have a special place in my heart.

And I love the historical nods in a couple of their factions.

And tanks.
Mainly tanks.

IG are well known for their armour. Fluff wise, it bout regular non genetically enhanced humans versus a universe of aliens and supernatural beings.

 amanita wrote:
It's harder to become a hero if you are a 7 foot armor encased mutant hybrid super soldier programmed for destruction.

Real heroes come from ordinary people just like you and me.

Ergo, Special forces with all their training and gear and what not that makes them substantially better at their jobs than most people ever can hope to be (a lot of the people will never meet the requirements no matter how much they train for it due to a less than favorable combination of genes), are not real heroes.

In any case, they're emphasized with as they're the most "normal" faction and come with more vehicles than a few other armies put together. They also get some of the best stuff written for them novel wise. The guard also supports just about every playstyle except for assault.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ThunderFury 2575 wrote:
They are amazing, mere men against the horrors of the galaxy, sirly english accents, awesome tanks and aircraft <3

They may be "mere men" but they can deploy more soldiers to a given battle than there are people on Planet Earth if need be and keep on funneling more soldiers at a rate higher than our planet's birth rate if the battle demands it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SRSFACE wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
And they keep coming back for more.

You don't seem to grasp that all of those things you mentioned... Eldar, Orks, Tyranid, Daemons and Space Marines, are all super-human space monsters (even the Space Marines).

And yet, the IG goes out to fight them, every day, being just regular people.

*That* is what makes the IG a cool faction for a lot of players.

By that logic, Elliot Stabler is cooler than Robocop.

While I think Stabler delves a bit too much into being pretty much revenge-porn incarnate with regards to the pedophile witch hunt, he is pretty cool overall.

 Kain wrote:

 ThunderFury 2575 wrote:
They are amazing, mere men against the horrors of the galaxy, sirly english accents, awesome tanks and aircraft <3

They may be "mere men" but they can deploy more soldiers to a given battle than there are people on Planet Earth if need be and keep on funneling more soldiers at a rate higher than our planet's birth rate if the battle demands it.

Yes they can all be thrown into a meat grinder, but it is the mere men that are doing the work. Each and everyone of them is a person, the Joe from down the road. Those mere men are forced to fight the horrors.

 Kain wrote:
Ergo, Special forces with all their training and gear and what not that makes them substantially better at their jobs than most people ever can hope to be (a lot of the people will never meet the requirements no matter how much they train for it due to a less than favorable combination of genes), are not real heroes.

Not compared to a non-specops that does the same thing, no.

But Space Marines are beyond that, even. Regular human specops are far more heroic than Space Marines.