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For CSM its probably easier to list the units that aren't a joke

MarsNZ wrote:
For CSM its probably easier to list the units that aren't a joke

True.
XXXX

DA:
-The fliers and Land Speeder Vengeance.

DE:
-Mandrakes. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to use these guys effectively...which is sad since I really want to get a box of them.
-The Archon's Court is always pretty gak considering you have to take at least one of every type of critter. If I could just take the snakes it'd be great...

IG:
-Rough Riders: They're just bad.
-Armour Sentinels: Scout Sentinels have their pretty sweet uses, and their price makes them easy last-minute squeeze-ins for smaller games, but Armoured Sentinels have pretty much lost their place with the new edition. They're the same price as Chimeras, don't have the Heavy Bolter, are slower, and can't transport 12 guardsmen. And there are better platforms for the weapon upgrades they can be given.


SM:
-Assault Centurions. They're...blegh
-Techmarines (the ones bought separately), they're just too expensive. Especially when another 50pts gets you a Thunderfire Cannon AND a techmarine!
-Vanguard Veterans...they just get too pricey when you equip them with the good stuff.

SW:
-Wolf Guard Battle Leaders: If you're going to take a CC HQ then you need to go all the way and get a Wolf Lord decked out with crazy stuff. Otherwise take a Rune Priest.

Servitors. Adding them to a techmarine or MOTF makes the whole unit majority T3 and makes it impossible to join that character to something more useful. The only purpose these things serve is making a transport vehicle able to better repair on the move, but it that really worth the points to bring the techmarine/MOTF's blessing of the omnissiah roll up?

Terminators. Oooh, a 2+/5++, power fist and ... a single wound and a storm bolter. How wonderful. Way overpriced, not enough ways to upgrade their shooting, suffers the crippling disability of either being focused down the turn after they deep strike, or being part of a ridiculously expensive Land Raider point sink.

Assault Terminators are slightly better since they have a purpose, but they still suffer from the deep strike vs land raider problem, they've only got one wound, and you have to choose between a 3++ and +1 attack.

Centurions! Oh, these guys could have been amazing if it weren't for the fact that a Devastator squad is massively cheaper for similar firepower and durability. Their only real purpose is close-up gravcannon spam, but at that range they'll be eaten alive by AP2 assault specialist units.

Assault Centurions. Dear god. Why? S9 Armourbane I4 is nice, but they're slow and purposeful! An assault unit! With slow and purposeful! They suffer from the same delivery problems as assault terminators, as well.

All Dreadnoughts suffer from not being Monstrous Creatures in an edition that heavily favors them, a lack of massed firepower (oooh, I just paid 120 points for 2 twin-linked autocannons that don't even get skyfire), and a lack of assault capability.

The "Godhammer" pattern Land Raider. Is this supposed to be a back-of-the-board lascannon platform or a transport for dedicated assault troops? The other two LR variants are leagues better.

The Stalker AA tank. Why would you take this thing when you could take an aegis defense line?

For IG: I'd say it's Ogryns and penal legions.

Space Marines? Assault Centurions.

Dark Eldar? Mandrakes.

Grey Knights? Hmmm...I have a limited army. Interceptors? Can't really say...

Tau? Again, pretty unsure. Vespid, maybe?

Tau:
Vespids or the sunshark.

Necrons:
Either Triarch Praetorians or Ctan Shard.

Nids: Hard call.
Raveners or Warriors

DA:
Nephilim - is soo cool looking but sooo bad.
Wanna buy one?

Marines:
whirlwind?

Only unit in the IG codex that I can truly say is absolute garbage because it's a truly bad unit and not because it competes with fantastic units, is Penal Legion. I've found ways to take every unit in the codex at some point (regardless of effectiveness)....still working on a reason to take those guys over a Vet Squad or Platoon...they're just garbage...I mean if I could choose what special they had it'd be decent, but it's randomized...

 soomemafia wrote:
Blood Angles: Vanguard Veterans.

Eldar: I'd say that either Banshees or Swooping Hawks.
Hemlock Wraithfighter could also be one of the worst.

actually hawks can be made to work and the flier has a lot of synergy with all the pinning in the book. I'd actually say banshees and possibly some of the Phoenix lords such as maugan

I don't think any unit in my book is truly awful, but for Space Wolves, in my opinion, it's the Skyclaw Assault Pack. I'm just not sure what I would ever do with these guys. I mean, I'm not fond of Blood Claws in general, but with Blood Claws (the base troop unit, that is), you can at least take 15 of them and stuff 'em in a Land Raider with a Wolf Priest. With Swiftclaws, at least they can cross the battlefield quickly, and they've got bolters. But Skyclaws are really only good at assault, and there's no way to safely get them into assault range quickly (especially considering how most armies can easily take down a 3+ armor save). As I said before, Blood Claws can take a Land Raider, and you can take 15 of them. Swiftclaws can move 12" then flat-out another 12". Grey Hunters and Wolf Guard can take Rhinos or Drop Pods (and Grey Hunters can be very, very versatile). Skyclaws, though, they can only do a risky deep strike that leaves them vulnerable for a turn, and their only way to stay out of template formation is to give up their (admittedly average) shooting to maybe get a decent run.

Depending on options, I think you could make a decent argument for taking any other unit in the book, but I just don't know what you would do with Skyclaws.

 washout77 wrote:
Only unit in the IG codex that I can truly say is absolute garbage because it's a truly bad unit and not because it competes with fantastic units, is Penal Legion. I've found ways to take every unit in the codex at some point (regardless of effectiveness)....still working on a reason to take those guys over a Vet Squad or Platoon...they're just garbage...I mean if I could choose what special they had it'd be decent, but it's randomized...

I used them three times, at all times as outflanking scouts. One they tied down for two turns and ultimately defeated a strikings scorpion team (they rolled psycho so extra CC weapon+rending was helpful).

Second time they were gunslingers, so they were a mildly annoyance, but 2 shots at 24 inches was still nice to have (no need for orders for that).

Third time they shot a few Lootas, got wiped come next turn or the one after with overwatch killing what was left.

Really, I used them as the fluff states; distraction and cannon fodder..an 80 pts distraction, as costly as a scout sentinel+autocannon squad true, but still, a distraction....but no, I won't use them regularly, short of for laughter. If they were with grenades (really, all that angle for melee and no 'nades?), could get more of them (as it said, whole lot of them were used, not just a single squad) and you could actually pick their special rule..then I might take'em yeah.

I think the only fix penal legion need is to drop them to 60 points. 10 points extra over an IS for scout and the random upgrade is fair, 30 extra? Nah.

Put them at 60 and I'd be building a squad right now. but at the moment, 80 points could get so much more for IG.

Siege Regiment - Hades Breaching Drill was overnerfed, Cyclop demolition thingy seems too fragile, since you can't hide the operator in a platoon or the Cyclops in a chimera.

While Pyrovores and Rippers come close, I'd say the Lictor is the worst unit in the Tyranid Codex.

No the worst in the nid dex (current) is the spore mine cluster followed by deep striking rippers.

Necrons it's the flayed ones (oh I've had great success with praetorians pistol and blade)

De mandrakes with out a doubt though decapitator is close.

CSM take your pick except drakes and IMO maulers

Daemons burning chariot lovely model good idea rules WTF.

For me, Repentia never even come close to earning their points back, they just get shot down every time I use. Once in a while they'll take out a dreadnaught or a transport that gets too close. And that's about.

The other, the Penitent Engine. They're just too big and too fragile to survive getting anywhere. They used to do an insane amount of damage if they did survive to assault, but now...just not worth it when you can have Excorcists or even a Retributer squad.

I've stopped using both in my army and I do MUCH better.

MarsNZ wrote:
For CSM its probably easier to list the units that aren't a joke

Yup.
In order of competitive power:

1) Heldrakes
2)Typhus (Ol' Reliable)
3) Plague Marines + Zombies
4) Be'lakor (When used with brains and situations)
_____________________________________________

Skullhammer wrote:
No the worst in the nid dex (current) is the spore mine cluster followed by deep striking rippers.

Both Spire Mines and Lictors are pretty useless, I still give it to the Lictor for being more expensive and taking up a valuable elite slot.

Dark Eldar: Mandrakes / Kheradruakh.

Tyranids: Swarms of any description.

Dark Angels: Tactical Squads

Banshees-difficult to pull off and are insanely situational. Grenades and a transport with assault ramps would make them worth it.. not gonna happen
Shining Spears- after the first round of attacks they're probably dead. More attacks Could make them worth it. MAYBE
DE Mandrakes and Jetbikes are completely worthless

Redseer wrote:
Banshees-difficult to pull off and are insanely situational. Grenades and a transport with assault ramps would make them worth it.. not gonna happen
Shining Spears- after the first round of attacks they're probably dead. More attacks Could make them worth it. MAYBE
DE Mandrakes and Jetbikes are completely worthless

You obviously know little of DE if you truly believe that jetbikes are worthless. They are near enough essential unless you are taking blasterborn in venoms.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Selym wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:
For CSM its probably easier to list the units that aren't a joke

Yup.
In order of competitive power:

1) Heldrakes
2)Typhus (Ol' Reliable)
3) Plague Marines + Zombies
4) Be'lakor (When used with brains and situations)
_____________________________________________

Be'lakor is one of the best HQ's in the game at the moment. He is far more competitive than anything on that list including the heldrake.

I have found a good use for every unit in the IG codex, hell even stormtroopers for marine hunting worked for me, but the real only unit that i think is downright useless in the entirety of 40k is probably mutilators, penal legionnaires, mandrakes, and maybe a few others. I actually love rough riders and counter charge. Helps me defend my gunlines, and helps me take out targets of interest in lower point games, for example plasma chosen or sternguard and such

Nids: It's all about to change, so we'll have to come back and update this thread in a month or so. Right now, the list is nearly as long as CSM.....

Eldar: Banshees, easy. Most other units are usuable to some degree. Banshees are not.

CSM: This has been amply covered, but I'm going to go with Khorne Berzerkers.

Necrons: Despite all the talk about Flayed ones and Triach Praetorians, I have used both succesfully quite a few times, in a competitive environment. TPs require a Dlord to be effective, but they can be pretty good. Flayed ones are significantly better when taken in a Dark Harvest list, with flensing scarabs.

People saying TPs are bad, need to take a look at lychguard. They are slower,can be more expensive, and have no shooting attack. As much as I enjoy the models, and enjoyed them in 5th, they are just bad in the current edition.

CSM
The absolute worst unit I can see is Mutilators. Even the Hellbrute with a recent loadout, hiding in cover seems better than bloody Mutilators.

IG
Rough Riders or Ogryns. Pick your poison.

GKs
Aside from the dreadful champion, I would say the Purgitation squads. Just do not like them.

Orks

Arguably Kommandos (without Snikrot) due to being pretty overcosted for the ability to infiltrate and move through cover while lacking the numbers or any form of sufficient survivability (i.e. stealth/shrouded) or damaging weaponry to make up for this. Also with 6th edition's nerfs towards units in reserves being unable to assault when they come onto the table makes them sitting ducks when they finally do arrive. Other than that the only other real contender would be Flash Gitz or Deff Dreadz.

 chiefbigredman wrote:
Eldar...haven't played but am collecting. I know people say swooping hawks but they would be useful and can do some damage. Wraithguard and wraithblades are super expensive points wise for 5 models. Especially with d-sythes thats 200+ points for 5 models that aren't especially strong. I still use them though.

Its obvious that you haven't played Eldar yet if you think d-scythe Wraithguard are overpriced. Both of the shooting varieties of WG are simply amazing against pretty much any army. If anything, WG are probably slightly undercosted in comparison to comparable units. For example, take 200 points of WG and compare them to 200 points of tactical terminators....its not even close.

As for worst unit, for SM I'm leaning towards tactical terminators, assault squads, assault centurions, and vanguard. All of these units suffer from being heavily overpriced and having a lack of offensive output. Marine assaults are kind of toothless for the most part, because either the unit is slow and can't SA (termies), don't come stock with the right tools for the job (Assault Marines and Vanguard), or put out too few attacks to have much impact (Assault Centurions).

For Daemons, I'm thinking the Slaanesh Chariot. Too fragile and largely ineffective rules. The Burning Chariot seems interesting if they actually fix it so that the weapons are on the chariot and not the passenger. Nurglings are pretty useless.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 chiefbigredman wrote:
Eldar...haven't played but am collecting. I know people say swooping hawks but they would be useful and can do some damage. Wraithguard and wraithblades are super expensive points wise for 5 models. Especially with d-sythes thats 200+ points for 5 models that aren't especially strong. I still use them though.

Its obvious that you haven't played Eldar yet if you think d-scythe Wraithguard are overpriced. Both of the shooting varieties of WG are simply amazing against pretty much any army. If anything, WG are probably slightly undercosted in comparison to comparable units. For example, take 200 points of WG and compare them to 200 points of tactical terminators....its not even close.

Comparing the price to tactical terminators is totally irrelevant and has no impact whatsoever on a cost effectiveness verdict. They are in fact slightly overpriced for what they do but due to the role they can perform in a list centered around wraith constructs they are far from bad.

XXXX

Most of all I loathe footnobs because I have tried so much to use them and all they have managed to do is piss me off. They're so damn expensive and still unimpressive in combat AND if the Warboss dies, they are cowards too.

Flash Gitz at least shoot so they're better.

Likan Wolfsheim wrote:

-Armour Sentinels: Scout Sentinels have their pretty sweet uses, and their price makes them easy last-minute squeeze-ins for smaller games, but Armoured Sentinels have pretty much lost their place with the new edition. They're the same price as Chimeras, don't have the Heavy Bolter, are slower, and can't transport 12 guardsmen. And there are better platforms for the weapon upgrades they can be given.

I actually disagree with that...one armored sentinel can tie up an entire Khorne Hound blob. 20 Hounds are going to fething roflstomp you if you don't do something about them, and Chimeras can't really handle them. In fact, if they've got Grimoire, not much really can handle them.

Army time army time!
3 armies that I truly play (the rest are either rarely touched or in development)

1. CSM- As others have mentioned, it is easier to list what doesn't suck in that codex then what does.

2. Chaos Daemons- Burning Chariot of Tzeentch. It doesn't even WORK and they STILL haven't fixed it. What the feth were they thinking?

3. IG- Hrmmmm..... I'd say either penal legion or the riders.