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Xyptc wrote:
Ah the endless flame war between the the Enlightened Few and their mortal enemies, the Blind Apologists.

Damn it Blind Apologists! You have gone too far this time!! I CURSE YOU ALL!!!

 the shrouded lord wrote:
We dont have armoured shell...
...
*bangs head on desk*
*repeats*
*repeats*
*bangs head on wall*
*repeats*
*remeats*
This means we have no 2+ saves, urrrggggg!! Nbnnn!!

Tyrannofex

Edit: its a bad change tho

Anyone else curious as to what percentage of codices, and possibly new kits, have been returned due to a poorly written book??

StarHunter25 wrote:
Anyone else curious as to what percentage of codices, and possibly new kits, have been returned due to a poorly written book??

Due to the way game stores work, GW wouldn't even know yet, if at all.

They might have an idea from their own stores, but every other game store I have been to has a very loose definition of stock tracking. And there is nothing really stopping them from getting returned copies and just putting them on the shelf unwrapped.

 the shrouded lord wrote:
This means we have no 2+ saves, urrrggggg!! Nbnnn!!

Nonsense! You've got the Ymgarl Factor for your 2+ saves.

As long as you're in close combat.
And only every other turn.
And only one model in your army can have it.
And it costs 40 points.

Go Bio-Artefacts, the most lazily written set of rules since... I can't even remember!

I have a bunch of genestealers and a broodloord from space hulk and I always wanted to use them for something other than kill team and when the new dex came out I thought great now is a perfect time to start up nids, but nope the book just had to be unusable, me and 2 other of my friends are now starting daemons instead of nids (we found a boatload of 3rd party models for cheap that work great for daemons on reapers site) and will be doing one of each god for our cirusi (?) Except khorne cuz his khorne flakes got a bit too soggy from the milk so instead were using his tasty khorne dogs.

This is truly the worst effort GW has put out to date. It is flavorless, and just plain non-competetive. Hell I dont even play tyranids and I can see how awful they are.

I am sorry GW but your killing yourself.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:
This means we have no 2+ saves, urrrggggg!! Nbnnn!!

Nonsense! You've got the Ymgarl Factor for your 2+ saves.

As long as you're in close combat.
And only every other turn.
And only one model in your army can have it.
And it costs 40 points.

Go Bio-Artefacts, the most lazily written set of rules since... I can't even remember!

Since the Dimensional key.

NamelessBard wrote:
What are you talking about biovore nerf?? They are one of the best units.

Brood lord price is the same as it doesn't replace a genestealer.

Why would you put AG on hive guard?

Otherwise I agree with pretty much anything.

The biovore used to be 1 spore mine per biovore in the unit if no target is under the blast marker, now it's 1d3 regardless of how many there are, yes this is nice if you're taking ONE unit with regards to the after benefit of spore mines if you miss, but that benefit is now gone despite them making spore mines better.

Didn't notice that about the broodlord though, thanks!

AG gives Fleet now, and fleet is GREAT for moving ranged units around via run to get them in or out of range of other lower ranged shooters.

I have to admit though, initially I LOVED the bio artefacts... but now relooking again... their like tailored to "take me" with certain units... like flyrants will likely have the norn crown to be a wider synapse monster, Trygon prime will likely take either the Maw-claws or Obliterax to agument its attacks since scything talons don't do that anymore.. the Miasma cannon just is NOT worth it since it can't hurt vehicle units at all, and the Ymgarl factor is more or less a joke unless we somehow get a super special awesome way to get our units into Melee.... maybe if you want to do a CC Flyrant to try and chase down other fliers, I mean they DO have rending claws now...

Tsunai wrote:
The biovore used to be 1 spore mine per biovore in the unit if no target is under the blast marker, now it's 1d3 regardless of how many there are, yes this is nice if you're taking ONE unit with regards to the after benefit of spore mines if you miss, but that benefit is now gone despite them making spore mines better.

I would say this is more than counter-balanced by the fact that with the old mines, after you determined the final position of the miss, you only got to place the spore mine if there were no enemy units within 6" of the central hole of the marker. Now, it doesn't matter how much you miss by, or if you scattered too close to another enemy unit without hitting it, you still get to place your mines if there are no models (friendly or enemy) under the blast marker. You go from a 12" diameter area to a 5" diameter area, and that's a pretty huge difference.

StarHunter25 wrote:Anyone else curious as to what percentage of codices, and possibly new kits, have been returned due to a poorly written book??

I can tell you at least one. Was at the local GW store on Saturday, playing a game after talking about the new codex (nobody present played nids, so initial reaction wasn't dire). This regular walks in and asks if his online pre-ordered tyranids showed up. GW guy confirms, and the regular asks if he can return it all. That got everyone's attention. GW guy tells him he has to talk to corporate since they were online ordered. Regular says "no problem" and leaves without his $200+ order. Bunch of us guessed it was personal finance issues, because this guy has practically every army in spades. Now we know better...

Fragile wrote:

 Watchersinthedark wrote:
Played against a buddy with the new dex today with my mech IG force. In the end it wasn't really even close. 2 12 wound Carnifex squads (I think they were 3 wounds each in 5th but not sure) with close supporting zoanthorpes (and he rolled catalyst so was giving them FnP) . They basically just marched up the board and smashed the crap out of my Chimeras with just their Hammer of Wrath. The amount of high S fire power I brought was just not enough and between the monsterous creatures and ridiculous numbers of gaunts I got overwhelmed and was crushed. Personally I think the new dex has some major holes in it but overall it seems that it also has some things that work rather well together.

Only because you have no clue how to handle it yet. This will be a repetitive story in the next couple weeks. Nid army crushes soandso. Then you will hear about better target priority (Synapse) and more tactics and the Nids will drop back into a far more beatable army.

Ah, It's nice when someone decides a loss means the player has no idea what's going on. It's not just about target priority. You can shoot all you want at whatever happens to have the synapse going, as long as your opponent has a clue about things like cover or forcing a change in priority then you still have that wonderful overwhelming factor. It will be interesting to see how other armies fair against them, but combing nidzilla with a ton of screening gaunts and whatever hiding around for synapse might be the common sight. It's a ton of wounds to try to get through but that's the point isn't it?

 Watchersinthedark wrote:

Fragile wrote:

 Watchersinthedark wrote:
Played against a buddy with the new dex today with my mech IG force. In the end it wasn't really even close. 2 12 wound Carnifex squads (I think they were 3 wounds each in 5th but not sure) with close supporting zoanthorpes (and he rolled catalyst so was giving them FnP) . They basically just marched up the board and smashed the crap out of my Chimeras with just their Hammer of Wrath. The amount of high S fire power I brought was just not enough and between the monsterous creatures and ridiculous numbers of gaunts I got overwhelmed and was crushed. Personally I think the new dex has some major holes in it but overall it seems that it also has some things that work rather well together.

Only because you have no clue how to handle it yet. This will be a repetitive story in the next couple weeks. Nid army crushes soandso. Then you will hear about better target priority (Synapse) and more tactics and the Nids will drop back into a far more beatable army.

Ah, It's nice when someone decides a loss means the player has no idea what's going on. It's not just about target priority. You can shoot all you want at whatever happens to have the synapse going, as long as your opponent has a clue about things like cover or forcing a change in priority then you still have that wonderful overwhelming factor. It will be interesting to see how other armies fair against them, but combing nidzilla with a ton of screening gaunts and whatever hiding around for synapse might be the common sight. It's a ton of wounds to try to get through but that's the point isn't it?

The problem of synapse wont be solved by overwhelming the enemy with targets since all they have to do to kill those targets is to kill one piece of synapse, the flyrant is great and all but if it cant survive fire from 1-2 NS and that is basically your army then it isnt really all that reliable. I think that if synapse didnt mean your army is gone if it doesnt have it then the dex wouldnt be nearly as bad as it is (still bad but at least it could beat orks and BA)

Yet another thread consumed in whining with out end. Only a matter of time before we are reduced to Taudar worship.

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
Yet another thread consumed in whining with out end. Only a matter of time before we are reduced to Taudar worship.

Its almost like people are disappointed with a poor product.

On the internet, there is only praise or whining. Never criticism or critique.

Its kind of ironic really, coming into a thread and accusing people of whining only makes the thread worse. Instead, you could contribute intelligently and make it a discussion.

Or accuse people of whining, or hating, or whatever else.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
Yet another thread consumed in whining with out end. Only a matter of time before we are reduced to Taudar worship.

Its almost like people are disappointed with a poor product.

On the internet, there is only praise or whining. Never criticism or critique.

Its kind of ironic really, coming into a thread and accusing people of whining only makes the thread worse. Instead, you could contribute intelligently and make it a discussion.

Or accuse people of whining, or hating, or whatever else.

Excellent point. I actually lost a game to a guy running the tyranid list recently but I must say it gives off a strong stench of being rushed.

 Bronzefists42 wrote:

Excellent point. I actually lost a game to a guy running the tyranid list recently but I must say it gives off a strong stench of being rushed.

This would be a good opportunity to describe the Nid list and what you were running. Then give a quick analysis of how playing against it felt. What unit were good, what units didn't do anything, what felt really poor, why did it feel rushed, did you bring a strong list, were there tactical decisions you made that contributed to the loss, did your opponent simply outplay you, so on.

I mean, you don't have answer each one, but any discussion involving experiences with the codex are infinitely better than accusing people of whining.

Having only read through it and the discussion online, it screams being a rush job with incredibly poor internal balance decisions.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Bronzefists42 wrote:

Excellent point. I actually lost a game to a guy running the tyranid list recently but I must say it gives off a strong stench of being rushed.

This would be a good opportunity to describe the Nid list and what you were running. Then give a quick analysis of how playing against it felt. What unit were good, what units didn't do anything, what felt really poor, why did it feel rushed, did you bring a strong list, were there tactical decisions you made that contributed to the loss, did your opponent simply outplay you, so on.

I mean, you don't have answer each one, but any discussion involving experiences with the codex are infinitely better than accusing people of whining.

Having only read through it and the discussion online, it screams being a rush job with incredibly poor internal balance decisions.

I was running 2000 pts of IF with Ork allies (It works ok but has obvious issues). it was 3 tac squads 2 with Rhinos and one in a storm raven along with Termies and devs.
The guy I was playing had been since 2nd edition while I've restarted the game only recently.
He ran Old one Eye, a Tervigon, 2 warrior broods, 4 zoantrhopes A tyrant (Non winged) and guard, an exocrine and a crap ton of gaunts.
I was running a tank based list and the game was objectives. He used the Exocrine to hammer my tanks into dust but Old One Eye was killed 2nd turn through combined heavy weapons fire. I was kept in my deployment zone since advancing meant running directly into a massive brood of assorted killy things.
He then deep striked 2 mawlocs to kill my Devastators and then a tactical squad.
It was a very close game but he won since I didn't have a thunderfire cannon or Vindicator to clear the board of Gaunts. It is also important to note that 2 of the 3 objectives ended up being put in his deployment zone.
overall:
Old One Eye died fairly easily,
the Tervigon stopped spawning second turn.
Genestealers were a minor distraction.
Zoanthropes were killed by the Orks (Yes Orks)
Exocrine went down late game but killed both of my tanks before then (with help)
The Stormraven ended up killing a lot of his MCs when it finally came in.
Terminators killed a mawloc
Terminator captain killed a gaunt horde on his own (I don;t know how either)
Overall it's hard to be conclusive but it felt that if I had taken A vindicator or thunderfire it might have ended up different;y.

I have seen a game nids vs tau today .1500pts with eldar ally . No WK , no missilsides . 2 skyrays , 2 tides , 1cmd , seer with jeters and reapers and coteaz . A for fun casual tau build .
The nids were runing double full guants , two mawlocks , two flyarants , double gargs + stuff I don't realy know , he had one of those new shoting ones . Strickt tournament build .
The nid started
The game was realy brutal . First mawlock got intercepted by the reaper squad and died . second one ate the two shot icarus maned by the exarch and coteaz used his ability to let the reaper squad shot at a deep striker near him . On the tau players turn his two sniper kroot units grounded both tyrants and the riptides overchared in to one and the whole army back padled . On his second turn the nid player tried to suicide and finish of the tau players troops , but the reapers double taped him to death . His gargs attacked the reapers standing behind the aegis and through the combination of overwatch , no synaps , attacking through cover and a irydium armor cmd lost the melee and got broken . the other squad just managed to clip a kroot unit with a max range charge . On tau players second turn everything that lived back padled and killed two guant units the seer cast spells on the coteaz+cmd+reapers+ exarch deathstar and they charged the gargs . I stoped watching after that , but 30 min later they were still stuck in melee and everything else was dead. the jetseer scored on on the the nid objectives and a 3 man kroot+hound unit scored on the tau objective and the tau won .

 Bronzefists42 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 Bronzefists42 wrote:

Excellent point. I actually lost a game to a guy running the tyranid list recently but I must say it gives off a strong stench of being rushed.

This would be a good opportunity to describe the Nid list and what you were running. Then give a quick analysis of how playing against it felt. What unit were good, what units didn't do anything, what felt really poor, why did it feel rushed, did you bring a strong list, were there tactical decisions you made that contributed to the loss, did your opponent simply outplay you, so on.

I mean, you don't have answer each one, but any discussion involving experiences with the codex are infinitely better than accusing people of whining.

Having only read through it and the discussion online, it screams being a rush job with incredibly poor internal balance decisions.

I was running 2000 pts of IF with Ork allies (It works ok but has obvious issues). it was 3 tac squads 2 with Rhinos and one in a storm raven along with Termies and devs.
The guy I was playing had been since 2nd edition while I've restarted the game only recently.
He ran Old one Eye, a Tervigon, 2 warrior broods, 4 zoantrhopes A tyrant (Non winged) and guard, an exocrine and a crap ton of gaunts.
I was running a tank based list and the game was objectives. He used the Exocrine to hammer my tanks into dust but Old One Eye was killed 2nd turn through combined heavy weapons fire. I was kept in my deployment zone since advancing meant running directly into a massive brood of assorted killy things.
He then deep striked 2 mawlocs to kill my Devastators and then a tactical squad.
It was a very close game but he won since I didn't have a thunderfire cannon or Vindicator to clear the board of Gaunts. It is also important to note that 2 of the 3 objectives ended up being put in his deployment zone.
overall:
Old One Eye died fairly easily,
the Tervigon stopped spawning second turn.
Genestealers were a minor distraction.
Zoanthropes were killed by the Orks (Yes Orks)
Exocrine went down late game but killed both of my tanks before then (with help)
The Stormraven ended up killing a lot of his MCs when it finally came in.
Terminators killed a mawloc
Terminator captain killed a gaunt horde on his own (I don;t know how either)
Overall it's hard to be conclusive but it felt that if I had taken A vindicator or thunderfire it might have ended up different;y.

Also the game was stopped various times to try and figure out poorly worded special rules.

I'm trying to be positive (sorry). Was initially disappointed but am going through it again. Did anyone notice nothing being said about NOT getting an additional attack for multiple sets of CC weapons, cuz i didn't see it. Which maybe why we don't get rerolls with ST. Also some of these tail options are kinda cool, and an extra attack, the mace on the Carnie has potential. +3 init with Lash whips, is ok with me esp on Venomthropes. I honestly have every nid dex since 2nd still, this is not the best one but i think i can make it work. Still be gonna be ruff fighting tau and eldar but it will take some time flesh all this out

Let's look at the 6th ed codex releases:

Chaos Space Marines
Chaos Daemons
Tau
Eldar
Space Marines
Adepta Sororitas (I'm counting this one because there were rules/unit updates)
Tyranids

And then lets look at every other codex. If you take Tau and Eldar out of that list, Nids should be able to hold their own. I personally think that the new Tyranid codex fits in with the majority of the other ones in power. The Tau and Eldar codecies were a mistake due to the cheese they produced, but the answer to said issue is NOT creating more cheese in every subsequent codex. It honestly seems that people are complaining that they didn't get some spammable OP cheese unit so they could easily win GTs. I'd rather have a more balanced game amongst everyone who doesn't play a certain 2 races than have a third "cheese army" push every other one down another notch

 greyknight12 wrote:
And then lets look at every other codex. If you take Tau and Eldar out of that list, Nids should be able to hold their own. I personally think that the new Tyranid codex fits in with the majority of the other ones in power. The Tau and Eldar codecies were a mistake due to the cheese they produced, but the answer to said issue is NOT creating more cheese in every subsequent codex. It honestly seems that people are complaining that they didn't get some spammable OP cheese unit so they could easily win GTs. I'd rather have a more balanced game amongst everyone who doesn't play a certain 2 races than have a third "cheese army" push every other one down another notch

Go straight across the board, compare old Tyranids to new Tyranids. Do you think they got better or worse? Then remember where they were compared to all the 6th codices before the update.

I both agree and disagree with the above post. I think Daemons should not be overlooked as a problematic list in general.

Also, I think that all codices should be roughly equal in power. Due to the existence of Tau/Eldar, I would have preferred that Tyranids be up to their standard. Because like it or not, Tau/Eldar is the new standard to be measured by.

They way to fix the issue is to make EVERY army "cheese" and then no one is "cheese".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Quark wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
And then lets look at every other codex. If you take Tau and Eldar out of that list, Nids should be able to hold their own. I personally think that the new Tyranid codex fits in with the majority of the other ones in power. The Tau and Eldar codecies were a mistake due to the cheese they produced, but the answer to said issue is NOT creating more cheese in every subsequent codex. It honestly seems that people are complaining that they didn't get some spammable OP cheese unit so they could easily win GTs. I'd rather have a more balanced game amongst everyone who doesn't play a certain 2 races than have a third "cheese army" push every other one down another notch

Go straight across the board, compare old Tyranids to new Tyranids. Do you think they got better or worse? Then remember where they were compared to all the 6th codices before the update.

Still better than BA!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzkYbJj4-Ns&feature=youtube_gdata_player

New nids batrep by frontline gaming incase you hadnt seen it, this really reinforces the amount of stupid the nids codex is (its nids vs orks and I'm sure you can guess the outcome)

Makumba wrote:
I have seen a game nids vs tau today .1500pts with eldar ally . No WK , no missilsides . 2 skyrays , 2 tides , 1cmd , seer with jeters and reapers and coteaz . A for fun casual tau build .

This has got to be the most humorous line I've read in a while.

Yeah. A "casual for fun" Taudar list with Inquisitor allies.

 A GuyBear wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzkYbJj4-Ns&feature=youtube_gdata_player

New nids batrep by frontline gaming incase you hadnt seen it, this really reinforces the amount of stupid the nids codex is (its nids vs orks and I'm sure you can guess the outcome)

LOL! Wow, that was amazingly bad.

Makumba wrote:
I have seen a game nids vs tau today .1500pts with eldar ally . No WK , no missilsides . 2 skyrays , 2 tides , 1cmd , seer with jeters and reapers and coteaz . A for fun casual tau build .
The nids were runing double full guants , two mawlocks , two flyarants , double gargs + stuff I don't realy know , he had one of those new shoting ones . Strickt tournament build .
The nid started
The game was realy brutal . First mawlock got intercepted by the reaper squad and died . second one ate the two shot icarus maned by the exarch and coteaz used his ability to let the reaper squad shot at a deep striker near him . On the tau players turn his two sniper kroot units grounded both tyrants and the riptides overchared in to one and the whole army back padled . On his second turn the nid player tried to suicide and finish of the tau players troops , but the reapers double taped him to death . His gargs attacked the reapers standing behind the aegis and through the combination of overwatch , no synaps , attacking through cover and a irydium armor cmd lost the melee and got broken . the other squad just managed to clip a kroot unit with a max range charge . On tau players second turn everything that lived back padled and killed two guant units the seer cast spells on the coteaz+cmd+reapers+ exarch deathstar and they charged the gargs . I stoped watching after that , but 30 min later they were still stuck in melee and everything else was dead. the jetseer scored on on the the nid objectives and a 3 man kroot+hound unit scored on the tau objective and the tau won .

How many "casual Tau builds" have two riptides and Eldar allies?
Oh, and coteaz.

 A GumyBear wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzkYbJj4-Ns&feature=youtube_gdata_player

New nids batrep by frontline gaming incase you hadnt seen it, this really reinforces the amount of stupid the nids codex is (its nids vs orks and I'm sure you can guess the outcome)

Cool BatRep. I love that table, and that mat underneath it is dead sexy. Might have to get one of those.