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This is an 'issue' (if you can call it that, I'm not sure really) that I've been looking into recently. There is debate as to why people like to use this flag today, and what they think it represents. There are a number of interpretations: that it's a symbol of southern pride due to being one of the flags used by the former Confederate States of the south; that it's as much a symbol of rebellion as circled As and Guy Fawkes masks due to the Confederate secession and fighting laws they disagreed with; or that it's a symbol of racism due to the Confederacy coming about from pro-slavery dispute.

But what do you all think? How do you interpret this flag? And based on that interpretation, do you feel the people who use this flag are using it correctly?

It was used not largely by the confederates. IT was a small flag during the war. It was later adopted by racists(Notably the KKK) as their flag.
The civil war was about slavery of black people, It is very much a racist flag, and I will call out anyone who uses it

Rebel.

That's what it means.

Hotsauceman, I don't even. What?

The Confederate flag was used by the Confederacy throughout the war, except for at the very start.

The second national had the flag in the top left corner, and the third national WAS the sterotypical confederate flag.

I Civil War reenact.

To answer the question, I don't mind people hanging it but I do believe they should be prepared to catch flak for it. Since it's the symbol of a past rebel institution who's goals were a little less than noble

I expect to catch flak for the Soviet Red Army flag in my room from my crazy relatives.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It was used not largely by the confederates. IT was a small flag during the war. It was later adopted by racists(Notably the KKK) as their flag.
The civil war was about slavery of black people, It is very much a racist flag, and I will call out anyone who uses it

Including Kanye?

Wrong, IT was mostly a Navy Flag and an Army of Tennesee flag
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

 Seaward wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It was used not largely by the confederates. IT was a small flag during the war. It was later adopted by racists(Notably the KKK) as their flag.
The civil war was about slavery of black people, It is very much a racist flag, and I will call out anyone who uses it

Including Kanye?

I would take the acts of an artist widely know for his "edgyness" with a grain of salt.

But I know you just fishing for replies because you brought up a black man wearing a confederate flag as an example its totally okay to do it like if a jew went around wearing a swastika armband would mean it would totally be okay to do that to.

 Seaward wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It was used not largely by the confederates. IT was a small flag during the war. It was later adopted by racists(Notably the KKK) as their flag.
The civil war was about slavery of black people, It is very much a racist flag, and I will call out anyone who uses it

Including Kanye?

Im assuming you mean West? He is just using it to grab attention.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Wrong, IT was mostly a Navy Flag and an Army of Tennesee flag
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

In my post you will see I said the second nation AND the third national were both the flags we see today, or at least similar. And that they were used widely by the confederacy.



Hell, they even hung the things outside there capital building in Richmond.

It says it was never officially adopted for use in the CSA

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It says it was never officially adopted for use in the CSA

Regiments were founded from each individual state, which had a choice of using either there Confederate flag OR there own state flag OR both.

Throughout the war all the versions were used, but the most widely was the bars and stars as you can see.

EDIT: Also Wikipedia does also get things wrong.

It is the flag of a would-be country that tried to secede from the US to preserve slavery.

It does not stand for "Southern Pride," which is a meaningless expression.

 Alexzandvar wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It says it was never officially adopted for use in the CSA

Regiments were founded from each individual state, which had a choice of using either there Confederate flag OR there own state flag OR both.

Throughout the war all the versions were used, but the most widely was the bars and stars as you can see.

EDIT: Also Wikipedia does also get things wrong.

Yes, but it was never officially part of the CSA flags. Look throughut that article, The flag shown at the OP was never the official flag of the confederacy.

I am from the South, and it doesn't fill me with pride when I see it.

Unless the person waving it is in full Civil War costume, then I have zero respect for that mullet sporting, camaro driving, sleeveless denim jacket wearing moron.

 Manchu wrote:
It is the flag of a would-be country that tried to secede from the US to preserve slavery.

It does not stand for "Southern Pride," which is a meaningless expression.

Well you see, people from the south are thinking that the liberal elites are encroaching on their way of life, trying to take their beer, take jesus from us and make them marry someone that isnt their cousin.

When I see someone sporting one of these it means they are willing to be perceived as a redneck, white-trash, border line (if not outright) racist.

I honestly don;t know why you would want to be associated with those things, but I also realize that I probably don't "get it".

Edit: Full disclosure- I am a blue-bellied Yankee who hates Southern Civil War apologists.

 kronk wrote:
I am from the South, and it doesn't fill me with pride when I see it.

Unless the person waving it is in full Civil War costume, then I have zero respect for that mullet sporting, camaro driving, sleeveless denim jacket wearing moron.

Dude... don't knock the General!

That's a charger, boss.

70s chargers are cool. The new ones have replaced the Camaro and Mustang as the redneck ride of choice.

 kronk wrote:
I am from the South, and it doesn't fill me with pride when I see it.

Unless the person waving it is in full Civil War costume, then I have zero respect for that mullet sporting, camaro driving, sleeveless denim jacket wearing moron.

As usual when it comes to things involving the South on Dakka: As a fellow Southerner, what Kronk done said.

But then again, I'm from New Orleans, and we're a culture unto ourselves.

I will freely admit that back when I played ChromeHounds I had a orange mech with a confederate flag on it named 'The General.' That said, I never got the whole 'Southern Pride' thing and I'm form the south (sort of, Army and all that). I never really bregrudged anyone for the flag itself as I knew people who sported it who were generic redneck racists like you see on TV and people who sported it and otherwise seemed perfectly fine and unracist.

I don't get it. EDIT: And when I've asked I get an answer that sounds like the person giving it doesn't really get it either.

 Alexzandvar wrote:
Hotsauceman, I don't even. What?

The Confederate flag was used by the Confederacy throughout the war, except for at the very start.

The second national had the flag in the top left corner, and the third national WAS the sterotypical confederate flag.

I Civil War reenact.

To answer the question, I don't mind people hanging it but I do believe they should be prepared to catch flak for it. Since it's the symbol of a past rebel institution who's goals were a little less than noble

I expect to catch flak for the Soviet Red Army flag in my room from my crazy relatives.

Yes now how did you get free from british rule now again?

I am always surprised (or maybe never surprised) when people who are like 'Get'r Dun! Southern Pride! Confederate flag! wooooo!' actually think that 'the south' had a flag, and that flag was being used for decades and then all of a sudden the civil war happened and it became a good thing turned bad.

The flag only ever existed for the express purpose of succeeding, and fighting a war. To defend it as a symbol of 'southern pride' is absurd as it has nor historical context as such. It is 100% only and will ever be a symbol of the ideals and beliefs of the south for the civil war. IE: slavery is good.

It didn't really 'show up' as a thing until schools were integrating black students in white schools. It is not like people were flying the confederate flag for 50 years after the civil war, it showed up explicitly as a sign of hate as a response to civil rights changes in the 1950s. It was unused and virtually non-existent for 70 years and then 'showed back up'.

It is an indefensible ignorance to fly it and it was brought back from its original use as a symbol of hate. At best you are using a symbol of 'supporting slavery' and at worst it is a symbol of beating, lynching and denying equal rights to minorities. It has never been anything else.

Bishop F Gantry wrote:

 Alexzandvar wrote:
Hotsauceman, I don't even. What?

The Confederate flag was used by the Confederacy throughout the war, except for at the very start.

The second national had the flag in the top left corner, and the third national WAS the sterotypical confederate flag.

I Civil War reenact.

To answer the question, I don't mind people hanging it but I do believe they should be prepared to catch flak for it. Since it's the symbol of a past rebel institution who's goals were a little less than noble

I expect to catch flak for the Soviet Red Army flag in my room from my crazy relatives.

Yes now how did you get free from british rule now again?

By an concentrated effort by immigrants disenfranchised with british rule who got help from the french and the British's other enemies?

I think "I want to be free of the kings tyranny" is a little more noble than "I don't like the president so lets rebel and destroy half the country so we can keep our right to own human people!"

 Alexzandvar wrote:

Bishop F Gantry wrote:

 Alexzandvar wrote:
Hotsauceman, I don't even. What?

The Confederate flag was used by the Confederacy throughout the war, except for at the very start.

The second national had the flag in the top left corner, and the third national WAS the sterotypical confederate flag.

I Civil War reenact.

To answer the question, I don't mind people hanging it but I do believe they should be prepared to catch flak for it. Since it's the symbol of a past rebel institution who's goals were a little less than noble

I expect to catch flak for the Soviet Red Army flag in my room from my crazy relatives.

Yes now how did you get free from british rule now again?

By an concentrated effort by immigrants disenfranchised with british rule who got help from the french and the British's other enemies?

I think "I want to be free of the kings tyranny" is a little more noble than "I don't like the president so lets rebel and destroy half the country so we can keep our right to own human people!"

To be fair, it was less about "the king's tyranny" and more about Parliament's tyranny.

nkelsch wrote:
original use as a symbol of hate

Now don't go overboard. Contemporary meaning shouldn't be read onto the past. The stars & bars may be a "symbol of hate" in today's parlance but the people who designed it and flew it would not understand that term.

 kronk wrote:
I am from the South, and it doesn't fill me with pride when I see it.

Unless the person waving it is in full Civil War costume, then I have zero respect for that mullet sporting, camaro driving, sleeveless denim jacket wearing moron.

What if they are in Civil War costume but still drive a Camaro?

 Manchu wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
original use as a symbol of hate

Now don't go overboard. Contemporary meaning shouldn't be read onto the past. The stars & bars may be a "symbol of hate" in today's parlance but the people who designed it and flew it would not understand that term.

The thing is, when it was made, it was a symbol of 'Pro-Slavery' no matter how you slice it. You can't get more hateful than that (assuming you believe race doesn't make people genetically inferior or are property) So they may not think anything of it, but it doesn't change that it was a symbol of something which cannot be seen as anything but hateful by Americans today. The reason people defend it is because they know literally nothing about it and actually believe it was 'the flag of the south' and actually stood for southern pride.

nkelsch wrote:
The thing is, when it was made, it was a symbol of 'Pro-Slavery' no matter how you slice it.

Out of curiosity, what percentage of Confederate servicemen were slave owners?

nkelsch wrote:
by Americans today

There you go.