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 jy2 wrote:
I recommend some zoanthropes, not just for synapse, but for a chance at catalyst. Your 2 deathstars could use FNP. Also, you need to think about how you can deal with flyers.

Yeah, it's going to be tough to squeeze them in though.

And 72 STR6 Twin Linked shots will drop plenty of flyers. The ones that scare me enough to not ignore anyway.

bodazoka wrote:
Question:

Is this correct?

Step 1 - Mawloc arrives from reserves on turn 2 with deep strike.
Step 2 - Mawloc deep strikes onto the enemy unit and does a large blast template.
Step 3 - Mawloc can not be placed and does the template again.
Step 4 - Mawloc can not be placed and so rolls on the mishap table.
Step 5 - Mawloc rolls the go back to on going reserves thing.
Step 6 - Mawloc deep strikes again the following turn 3.

Repeat steps 2 through 5

So... the Mawloc has the potential to cause 8 x Str 6 AP2, ignores cover large blasts (between turns 2-5) without actually ever being on the table?

That is correct.

In a way, the deepstrike mishap is a blessing in disguise. As long as you don't roll a '1', 2-3 would almost be the same as if you didn't mishap and 4-6 is really what you want to happen.

Backlash wrote:

If it survives it can go into ongoing reserves, There was dispute however as to where ongoing reserves comes in from. Not sure if it has ever been resolved as too if you must enter from your board edge or is allowed to enter via deepstirke again.

There is no controversy here. If you mishap and go back into reserves, you come in again the way you did before you mishapped. You can't just re-declare how you're going to come in again. At least that is the way everyone that I know plays it.

doomminion wrote:
Hi I'm completely new to the game and new to Tyranids. I've been following this thread closely but I'm still confused as to what a good build will be in this codex. Since it is sooo expensive to make an army I don't want to be buying and painting units that I don't use. Can anyone give me some feed back on this list and If I'm over looking something?


HQ
- Flyrant + TLD
- Flyrant + TLD

Troops
- 30 x Termagants
- 1 x Tervigon + Regen. + Miasma Cannon
- 10x Hormagaunts
- 10x Hormagaunts

Elites
- 3x Zoanthroes
- 2 x Venomthropes

Heavy Support
- 4 x Biovores
- 1 x Exocrine
- 1 x TrygonPrime + Regen. + Reaper of Obliterax
- 1 X Tyrannofex + Regen. + Adrenal Glands

My advice is this:

1. Build a list for 1 single-FOC army.

2. Drop most of those upgrades, with the exception of the guns on your flyrants. Usually for tyranids, quantity is better than quality. Go for more bugs as opposed to more upgrades.

3. Spread out those venoms and zoans to provide more coverage. Either go 2 separate units of venoms and 1 unit of zoans or 2 units of zoans and 1 of venoms.

4. Biovores come in units of 1-3 only. You've got 1 heavy support too many (maximum of 3 in single-FOC lists).



Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
I recommend some zoanthropes, not just for synapse, but for a chance at catalyst. Your 2 deathstars could use FNP. Also, you need to think about how you can deal with flyers.

Yeah, it's going to be tough to squeeze them in though.

And 72 STR6 Twin Linked shots will drop plenty of flyers. The ones that scare me enough to not ignore anyway.

You also want more psykers for Onslaught. Both Onslaught and Catalyst would work awesome with your army.

Mawlocs' TFTD might be a good way to get rid of quad guns. Quad guns only have 2 wounds so it could get killed by the 2 large blasts. If you kept your fliers in reserve and the Mawloc came in turn 2 and killed the Quadgun with TFTD it wouldn't be able to take out the Crone/Harpy with interceptor because that isn't resolved till the end of the Movement Phase.

Also, do Tyrant Guard HAVE to be joined by the Tyrant? It says that a Tyrant may join then exactly as if he were and independent character, but wouldn't that mean you could have some TGs running around being badarses while their Flyrant goes and does his thing elsewhere?

Yes, you can do that. But IMO there's better ways to spend those points.

Two S6 hits vs t7 seems like a poor plan anyways.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Two S6 hits vs t7 seems like a poor plan anyways.

Unless you want to force the mishap. Besides, there should be other units nearby and in base with the quad-gun anyways. All you need to do is to get rid of those and your flyers are free to come in interceptor-free.

Personally, I'd deepstrike the Mawloc to hit the unit manning the quad-gun itself, with the blast marker touching the quad-gun as well. Of course if I kill the quad-gun, then consider it collateral damage.

On a side note, how are others feelings about using the skyshield to protect FMC like crones. Its a flat 4++ so it could be big for a pair of flyrants or crones to stage an attack from if you positioned it forward enough and center.

@jy2

I thought so (in regards to the Mawloc). I played it last night and unfortunately rolled high enough that i was able to be placed away from the unit!!

Who seriously places a DS marker in the middle of a spread out full tau fire warrior unit and STILL doesn't mishap!

Thoughts on Meiotic Spores? I posted this in YMDC and as I say at the end if scenario two is the correct ruling these guys could be quite strong.

"In the Meiotic Spore entry it says "In the owning player's Shooting phase, if they wish it, or, if for any reason a Meiotic Spore comes within 2" of an enemy model, it detonates immediately. Resolve the Meiotic Spore attack listed with the blast marker centred on the spore. After resolving the attack, remove the spore from play as a casualty and place D6-2 Spore mines on its former location, just as you would place a deep striking unit. These spore mines then act exactly as they would normally from this point onwards."

I am interpreting different two things from this:

1: Place them as if they had been deepstruck they then act as if they had deepstruck in normally from this point on. Ie. Can't assault.

2: Place them in a deepstruck formation. They then can act normally from this point. Ie. Can assault.

Anyone know the correct interpretation? With the new Spore mine rules these guys could be quite strong if scenario 2 is correct."

The Skyshield idea sounds like it could work. Personally I would wait for the inevitable FAQ nerd before investing in fortifications.

I don't normally post lists up but I have been trying to come up one which I can build my new swarm to and I have come up with this:

HQ

Flyrant - TL Devourers

Flyrant - TL Devourers

ELITE

Zoanthropes (3)

Hive Guard (2)

Hive Guard (2)

TROOPS

Warriors (3) - BS / 2x Deathspitters

Termagants (30)

Tervigon

FAST

Hive Crone

HEAVY

Exocrine

Exocrine

Thats 1750pts (unless my math is out as Ive posted from memory). This list will be ok in my meta unless I come across against the Eldar. I was originally going to have another Crone but I dropped it for extra synapse.

What are thoughts on this build? I don't see many Hive Guards in lists these days.

Question?

What unit's in the codex would I need to include for maximum long range fire power (24 + inches) and would including these units allow me to at LEAST match it with a slight under tear optimized Tau army.

Also.. coupled with maxed out Venemthropes and set up in ruins would the above list be able to shrug off most hits with relative impunity?

I understand cover denying removes the real power of the above but I think practically speaking the below mitigates that;

1. The marker light's removing my cover are not helping the fire warrior's ballistic skills.
2. Mawloc's and/or Lictors and/or Deathleaper and/or long range fire power will HAVE to target the source of the marker lights as soon as possible (possibly killing a unit providing the course first turn?)

Considering my meta is very far from tripple rip tide + all missiles all the time I think something like the above would be very powerful and hard to kill.

My main worry is weather I will have enough of the long range stuff..

 Roci wrote:
Not to mention those crones have feed. If they get out of synapse they end up on the ground... either eating themselves or trying to get into combat.

Single models do not succumb to the worst effect on the IB table but instead are treated as if rolling a 4-5 if they rolled a 1, 2 or 3.

bodazoka wrote:
Question?
What unit's in the codex would I need to include for maximum long range fire power (24 + inches) and would including these units allow me to at LEAST match it with a slight under tear optimized Tau army.

Carnifex with dual stranglethorn canon. Harpies have a twin linked stranglethorn cannon, and are pretty cheap.

I really like the idea of Stranglethorn Carnifexes... even more than dakkafexes.

I also read about the old idea of a 'distraction carnifex'. Maybe a distraction tyrannofex could work, with the new and improved regeneration.

Regarding the Lictor's Pheromone Trail no-scatter thing:
I don't currently have access to the Codex but can someone confirm if the Lictor is required to start the turn on the table to benefit?

I ask because the Daemon Codex has no such clause and so it is 100% acceptable to Deep Strike a unit with an Icon, and any other units arriving that turn will be able to 'home in' on the Icon even though it has only just arrived itself.

Since the Daemons are likely the closest comparison, I would be pleasantly surprised if the Lictor is worded the same way and thus can guide-in Mawlocs and Spore Mines without exposing itself to any shooting.

Mozzamanx wrote:
Regarding the Lictor's Pheromone Trail no-scatter thing:
I don't currently have access to the Codex but can someone confirm if the Lictor is required to start the turn on the table to benefit?

I ask because the Daemon Codex has no such clause and so it is 100% acceptable to Deep Strike a unit with an Icon, and any other units arriving that turn will be able to 'home in' on the Icon even though it has only just arrived itself.

Since the Daemons are likely the closest comparison, I would be pleasantly surprised if the Lictor is worded the same way and thus can guide-in Mawlocs and Spore Mines without exposing itself to any shooting.

must be on the board mate, just like spacemarine homers.

am i the only one who sees Void shields as a great use now for nids? and even the Promethean pipes to make pyrovors torrent? once taudar get smart and start using void shields, any range shooting is gonna be in trouble

 DexKivuli wrote:

bodazoka wrote:
Question?
What unit's in the codex would I need to include for maximum long range fire power (24 + inches) and would including these units allow me to at LEAST match it with a slight under tear optimized Tau army.

Carnifex with dual stranglethorn canon. Harpies have a twin linked stranglethorn cannon, and are pretty cheap.

I really like the idea of Stranglethorn Carnifexes... even more than dakkafexes.

I also read about the old idea of a 'distraction carnifex'. Maybe a distraction tyrannofex could work, with the new and improved regeneration.

Iirc aren't you only allowed one Stranglethorn Cannon though? Can't do the gunboat Fex. They killed that after 4th.

Opinions of new list so far - I'm liking it. Seeing odds and ends of one way or another.

Shall get a proper free for all outing on the 25th with an Apocalypse game at the FLGS - I'm being asked to provide about 3-4k worth of the 'nids which conveniently works out to what is painted at the moment.

Hive Tyrant - Wings, Scytals, LW & BS
Hive Tyrant - Scytals, LW & BS
*2 Tyrant Guard
Tyranid Prime - Scytals, Twin Boneswords, Adrenal Glands
Tyranid Prime - Rending Claws, Devourer

2 Zoanthropes
2 Zoanthropes

30 Termagants - 15 Fleshborers, 15 Spinefists - Dev-Prime goes here
14 Hormagaunts
9 Genestealers - Scytals, inc. Broodlord
6 Tyranid Warriors - Scytals, 3 Deathspitters, 2 Rending Claws, 1 Venom Cannon, AG - Sword-Prime goes here

3 Raveners - Scytals, Rending Claws

3 Carnifexes - 2 x 2 Scytals, 1 x Scytals and Crushing Claws, AG
Trygon Prime

2 x Scythed Hierodule
Barbed Hierodule

 jy2 wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

Spoiler:

HQ
-Prime
-Prime

TROOP
-24 Hormagaunts
-24 Hormagaunts
-25 Hormagaunts

ELITE
-1 Venomthrope
-1 Venomthrope
-1 Venomthrope

HEAVY
-3 Carnifexes
-3 Carnifexes
-3 Carnifexes

1850

Break it down from there?

Naked hormagants really aren't that great. As a wound soaker for your primes, I'd recommend 30 termagants instead. I'd also recommend breaking down 1 unit of hormagants into 2 or 3 units of 10 termagants. Finally, consider the bastion for your army and perhaps 1 or 2 zoans to spread the coverage of synapse.

Important to note there that Hormagaunts lose Bounding leap if joined by a Prime.

 jy2 wrote:
Naked hormagants really aren't that great.

Why is that? The way I see it, they're the same as termagants but a lot quicker (+3" run and rerollable run) which means that as a screening unit, they're less likely to hold stuff up with bad run moves.

Shrubs wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Naked hormagants really aren't that great.

Why is that? The way I see it, they're the same as termagants but a lot quicker (+3" run and rerollable run) which means that as a screening unit, they're less likely to hold stuff up with bad run moves.

Honestly, that is what they are good for naked, however, I believe what Jy2 is trying to explain is that taking an upgrade drastically changes the unit's threat. 4+ to wound and being able to glance AV10 on the charge is nothing to shirk about for us.

Out of curiosity, are Nids allowed use of an ADL?

Enceladus wrote:
Out of curiosity, are Nids allowed use of an ADL?

There is nothing stopping us other than a FAQ. But the old FAQs are still up, which is so typically of this release.

Interesting. Shrouded behind an ADL would be 3+ cover, right?

Hey guys, I REALLY want to play a close combat Tyranid army, as I think that's what they are meant to do. I have really no interest in playing the "shooty nids" version of the army (unless I'm getting completely tabled all the time, and have no other choice). With this said, I was thinking about running a CC Hive Tyrant death star of sorts. I know it isn't the greatest list, and cannot handle some armies, but here is my list. Please provide comments and help, as they would be much appreciated!

1,350 pts Tyranids

H.Q.
Hive Tyrant (225 pts)
- LW & BS (20 pts)
- BS (15 pts)
- Adrenal Glands (15 pts)
- Toxin Sacs (10 pts)

Tyrant Guard (225 pts)
- 3 Tyrant Guard
- 3 LW & BS (20 pts/model)
- 3 Rending Claws
- 3 Adrenal Glands (5 pts/model)

Troops
Termagant Brood (160 pts)
- 30 Termagants
- 10 Devourers (4 pts/model)
- 20 Fleshborers

Tervigon (230 pts)
- Regeneration (30 pts)
- Cluster Spines (5 pts)
- Scything Talons

Hormagaunt Brood (160 pts)
- 20 Hormagants
- 20 Scything Talons
- 20 Toxin Sacs (3 pts/model)

Elites
Venomthrope Brood (45 pts)

Venomthrope Brood (45 pts)

Zoanthrope Brood (100 pts)
- 2 Zoanthropes

Heavy Support
Carnifex Brood (160 pts)
- Crushing Claws (15 pts)
- Adrenal Glands (15 pts)
- Toxin Sacs (10 pts)
- Scything Talons


Now, I already know that if I increase the points cap, I'll probably be adding more Carnifexes, and possibly a Hive Crone to deal with fliers since Heldrakes are my bane here. I separated the Venomthropes to obviously keep them at different places within the army. I kitted out my Hive Tyrant and Tyrant Guard to be a monster in CC. I can possibly see taking off the LW & BS from the Hive Guard themselves, but as of right now, it seems pretty decent on paper (albeit costing me 60 points). I'm also thinking of possibly replacing the Hormagants with Termagants, but we'll see. I like the idea of a block of 20 CC units to tarpit something that always wound on 4+. I also run Regen on the Tervigon because I REALLY do not want her to die, considering my termagants would suffer greatly if she does. I'll also lose a synapse creature as well.

Again, please post any advice you may have for this list. I'm trying to keep the points cost at 1,350, but I might also make a 1,500 point variation of this list as well.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Enceladus wrote:
Interesting. Shrouded behind an ADL would be 3+ cover, right?

Shrouded behind your own units would also be a 3+ cover save

That's right, adl can be taken at the Mo due to the faq applying to the old book, no doubt they will nerf it though.

I have tried out the haruspex and quite like it , sure it's only got 4 attacks on the charge but the additional attacks generated are quite cool, I basically treat it as 5/6 attacks basically when all is said and done, adrenal glands are a must though


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Adl shroud is 2+

We could always take an ADL and gain the cover save.
The (old) FAQ simply doesn't allow us to fire the weapon.

Journeyman351 wrote:
Hey guys, I REALLY want to play a close combat Tyranid army, as I think that's what they are meant to do. I have really no interest in playing the "shooty nids" version of the army (unless I'm getting completely tabled all the time, and have no other choice). With this said, I was thinking about running a CC Hive Tyrant death star of sorts. I know it isn't the greatest list, and cannot handle some armies, but here is my list. Please provide comments and help, as they would be much appreciated!

1,350 pts Tyranids

H.Q.
Hive Tyrant (225 pts)
- LW & BS (20 pts)
- BS (15 pts)
- Adrenal Glands (15 pts)
- Toxin Sacs (10 pts)

Tyrant Guard (225 pts)
- 3 Tyrant Guard
- 3 LW & BS (20 pts/model)
- 3 Rending Claws
- 3 Adrenal Glands (5 pts/model)

Troops
Termagant Brood (160 pts)
- 30 Termagants
- 10 Devourers (4 pts/model)
- 20 Fleshborers

Tervigon (230 pts)
- Regeneration (30 pts)
- Cluster Spines (5 pts)
- Scything Talons

Hormagaunt Brood (160 pts)
- 20 Hormagants
- 20 Scything Talons
- 20 Toxin Sacs (3 pts/model)

Elites
Venomthrope Brood (45 pts)

Venomthrope Brood (45 pts)

Zoanthrope Brood (100 pts)
- 2 Zoanthropes

Heavy Support
Carnifex Brood (160 pts)
- Crushing Claws (15 pts)
- Adrenal Glands (15 pts)
- Toxin Sacs (10 pts)
- Scything Talons

IMO, walking tyrants are not worth it. If you want a walking tyrant, I would go with the Swarmlord instead, simply because he does so much more for your army. Additionally, I'm not a fan of lashwhips on tyrant guard, because most of them are going to get killed before they make it across the board anyway. If you drop the whips and the tyrant, you would be able to put in the Swarmlord (Also, adrenal glands on your guard are useless if you put them with Swarmy, so you should drop those too if you decide to take my advice). Also, Carnifexes are 120 pts. base, not 160, and I do not believe that Crushing Claws are a good investment for them, especially with adrenal glands. You're already S10 on the charge and have the option to smash. Do you really need armorbane as well?

I'm seriously considering buying a basic ADL and running the thing down the midline of the board. Then the venomthropes will mean any shooting into my table half gets a 2+ cover save. With the monstrous creatures all having Move Through Cover, it won't slow them down appreciably to cross it, and granting opponents cover saves won't matter much since so many of them will be taking 3+ or 4+ armor saves against massed devourer, shooting anyway.

 Red Corsair wrote:
On a side note, how are others feelings about using the skyshield to protect FMC like crones. Its a flat 4++ so it could be big for a pair of flyrants or crones to stage an attack from if you positioned it forward enough and center.

I'm not feeling it. He'd die just the same to torrent if he's not going 1st.

I'd rather go for the Bastion. It's tall enough such that it should be able to give the Hive Crone 3+ cover, perhaps even hide him as well.

If you're playing against Tau or Eldar, skyshield or not, you are almost forced to have to reserve him. Skyshield isn't going to protect you from VoF.

bodazoka wrote:
@jy2

I thought so (in regards to the Mawloc). I played it last night and unfortunately rolled high enough that i was able to be placed away from the unit!!

Who seriously places a DS marker in the middle of a spread out full tau fire warrior unit and STILL doesn't mishap!

Lol. Sometimes, stranger things have happened. BTW, did you kill all the models that you came up on? If so, then he's kind of done his job.

 Zande4 wrote:
Thoughts on Meiotic Spores? I posted this in YMDC and as I say at the end if scenario two is the correct ruling these guys could be quite strong.

"In the Meiotic Spore entry it says "In the owning player's Shooting phase, if they wish it, or, if for any reason a Meiotic Spore comes within 2" of an enemy model, it detonates immediately. Resolve the Meiotic Spore attack listed with the blast marker centred on the spore. After resolving the attack, remove the spore from play as a casualty and place D6-2 Spore mines on its former location, just as you would place a deep striking unit. These spore mines then act exactly as they would normally from this point onwards."

I am interpreting different two things from this:

1: Place them as if they had been deepstruck they then act as if they had deepstruck in normally from this point on. Ie. Can't assault.

2: Place them in a deepstruck formation. They then can act normally from this point. Ie. Can assault.

Anyone know the correct interpretation? With the new Spore mine rules these guys could be quite strong if scenario 2 is correct."

My intepretation is this.

The rule says to place them as if they had deepstruck. It doesn't say to treat them as if they deepstruck. So in essence, the deepstrike rules are only used for the place of the spore mines (i.e. in concentric circles around the 1st mine) and that's it. Thus, I intepret it as #2.

However, I don't think GW intends for them to be able to assault. They've basically taken away assault from any unit that just came into play, whether through reserves or from spawning tervigons. So the RAI is probably no. Expect GW to FAQ the spore mines as such.

I had a fun game against Space Wolves Longfang-spam with these big boys;

Tyranid Prime – Venom Cannon
Tervigon

3 Venomthropes
1 Zoanthrope
1 Zoanthrope

10 Termagants
10 Termagants

3 Dakkafex
3 Dakkafex
3 Dakkafex

1995pts

Very close game which Nids pulled out in the end. 3++ save Dakkafexes, 108 TL S6 shots...

 N.I.B. wrote:
I had a fun game against Space Wolves Longfang-spam with these big boys;

Tyranid Prime – Venom Cannon
Tervigon

3 Venomthropes
1 Zoanthrope
1 Zoanthrope

10 Termagants
10 Termagants

3 Dakkafex
3 Dakkafex
3 Dakkafex

1995pts

Very close game which Nids pulled out in the end. 3++ save Dakkafexes, 108 TL S6 shots...

You'll struggle against flyers, but then again even snap shoting that many TL s6 shots will do damage. But then you have little to no fire power against armies on the floor.