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For the record Warpquake doesn't stop the DftD attack. It makes it move after both attacks have gone off as the model is not placed until then.

 Gloomfang wrote:

Gatekeeper wrote:
What are you all using to take out an enemy HQ? Swarmy is the only one who can fight in CC with his "invuln" save. Do you just try to shoot them to death?

Experimenting with the Red Horror for that. Being able to do challenges helps. High weapon skill and 6 attacks on the charge helps. The fact that a 80pt model has the ability to ignore FNP, armor saves, wounds and EW is pretty big.

Crimpy, totally did not parse that from the rules when I looked at them the first time.

barnowl wrote:

 Gloomfang wrote:

Gatekeeper wrote:
What are you all using to take out an enemy HQ? Swarmy is the only one who can fight in CC with his "invuln" save. Do you just try to shoot them to death?

Experimenting with the Red Horror for that. Being able to do challenges helps. High weapon skill and 6 attacks on the charge helps. The fact that a 80pt model has the ability to ignore FNP, armor saves, wounds and EW is pretty big.

Crimpy, totally did not parse that from the rules when I looked at them the first time.

It took a few readings to really comprehend. When I saw that I had to hit with 4 attacks and saw 4 on his profile I was "meh". Then I realized that he had a second set of CC weapons so he had 5 attacks and a 6th on the charge. With his high weapon skill that is actually doable.

Then you read the rule and it says they get one invuln if they have it and if they fail it gets removed from play. That means toughness doesn't matter, regular save doesn't matter and you can't get a FNP as there is no unsaved wound. Removed from play is not ID so it ignores EW.

As RH is a character you can issue challenges so you know you will be getting a good model to eat. Between that and being able to tank for the unit of raveners I think we will see a decent amount of them in competitive play.

I'm definitely planning to run Ravenors with him. Their speed is awesome.

I'm building 3-6 Shrikes right now, and can't decide what combination of Scytal/Rending claws and Scytal/Boneswords to use... what's an effected combination of those? Definitely want close combat shrikes and I'm thinking of using the wings as scytals and keeping their legs.

Scytal/Boneswords is the better option, but you could mix some Rending in there as well for a "good" cheaper option.

Warriors have gotten panned (again) but is there any merit to a larger number, like 9 in 1 or 3 squads with STs rending claws and adrenal glands? Seems pretty cheap-ish at 360 to keep up with Hormies or something else fleet.

 Gloomfang wrote:
It took a few readings to really comprehend. When I saw that I had to hit with 4 attacks and saw 4 on his profile I was "meh". Then I realized that he had a second set of CC weapons so he had 5 attacks and a 6th on the charge. With his high weapon skill that is actually doable.

Then you read the rule and it says they get one invuln if they have it and if they fail it gets removed from play. That means toughness doesn't matter, regular save doesn't matter and you can't get a FNP as there is no unsaved wound. Removed from play is not ID so it ignores EW.

As RH is a character you can issue challenges so you know you will be getting a good model to eat. Between that and being able to tank for the unit of raveners I think we will see a decent amount of them in competitive play.

I had thought Special Characters already had bonus attacks from multiple weapons figured into their statlines when they don't have options for other weapons? Or is that a rule from some earlier edition? I'm finding more and more that my gaming group has a bad tendency of remembering leftover rules from old editions that they've passed on to me....

Bonus attacks from multiple weapons are never counted in the profile unless it's specifically noted.

*sigh*

Was that possibly a leftover rule from an old edition?

 More Dakka wrote:
Warriors have gotten panned (again) but is there any merit to a larger number, like 9 in 1 or 3 squads with STs rending claws and adrenal glands? Seems pretty cheap-ish at 360 to keep up with Hormies or something else fleet.

Warriors are great in large numbers, as you give a squad of 9x all Deathspitters and then you attach a Prime to them and then you can have 30x S5 shots a turn with them. I have already play tested them with 9x Warriors outflanking with these and they have done awesome so far, and I will be attaching a Prime to them to give them some extra killing power to see what they can do. Warriors still make a great Synapse-Base for you other units, and they are worth taking in both small units, and can be pretty nasty in 9x man units as well.

So the other question I've come across is Deathleaper better or worse than 2 Lictors. Yes he's only able to be hit with snapshots but there's no synapse, and he can still go poof. At least with 2 regular Lictors, you have more wound allocation.

The big arguments of the deathleaper is his leadership reduction vs pesky psykers and the snap fire rule. Those two rules are gold.

 Niiai wrote:
The big arguments of the deathleaper is his leadership reduction vs pesky psykers and the snap fire rule. Those two rules are gold.

But, Deathleapers biggest Con... he's an HQ. 2xFOC I can see him sneaking in, but otherwise... no. Lictors are in the much less crowded Elites slot.

 Rommel44 wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
Warriors have gotten panned (again) but is there any merit to a larger number, like 9 in 1 or 3 squads with STs rending claws and adrenal glands? Seems pretty cheap-ish at 360 to keep up with Hormies or something else fleet.

Warriors are great in large numbers, as you give a squad of 9x all Deathspitters and then you attach a Prime to them and then you can have 30x S5 shots a turn with them. I have already play tested them with 9x Warriors outflanking with these and they have done awesome so far, and I will be attaching a Prime to them to give them some extra killing power to see what they can do. Warriors still make a great Synapse-Base for you other units, and they are worth taking in both small units, and can be pretty nasty in 9x man units as well.

Would 9x with scytals and bone swords be at all decent? I really want to run cc Shrikes!

Noctem wrote:

 Rommel44 wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
Warriors have gotten panned (again) but is there any merit to a larger number, like 9 in 1 or 3 squads with STs rending claws and adrenal glands? Seems pretty cheap-ish at 360 to keep up with Hormies or something else fleet.

Warriors are great in large numbers, as you give a squad of 9x all Deathspitters and then you attach a Prime to them and then you can have 30x S5 shots a turn with them. I have already play tested them with 9x Warriors outflanking with these and they have done awesome so far, and I will be attaching a Prime to them to give them some extra killing power to see what they can do. Warriors still make a great Synapse-Base for you other units, and they are worth taking in both small units, and can be pretty nasty in 9x man units as well.

Would 9x with scytals and bone swords be at all decent? I really want to run cc Shrikes!

Haven't tried Shrikes at all but think they can make an effective unit in the right Army list. Reason I oped for the regular Warriors is that they are a solid troop choice for the army and the outflanking ability with them makes them a solid unit. However, I am tempted to try out a big unit of them and maybe throw in a Flyrant with them to make them a nasty hit squad in CC. But in this edition, shooting is the name of the game so although the idea of a nasty CC unit of Shrikes seems like a cool idea, a unit of outflanking Warriors overall is just more effective as they can appear closer to the opponent then flying across the board.

That sounds about right, it does seem like anything ranged will probably perform better

I may run some CC Shrikes sometimes just for fun though! I guess it seems scytals and bone swords are best?

 jifel wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
The big arguments of the deathleaper is his leadership reduction vs pesky psykers and the snap fire rule. Those two rules are gold.

But, Deathleapers biggest Con... he's an HQ. 2xFOC I can see him sneaking in, but otherwise... no. Lictors are in the much less crowded Elites slot.

If they let you take formations where you are the new vanguard formationlet's you take DL and Lictors as a formation.

and after playing a few games I think DL is a better choice (for my list) than a flyrant.

I honestly think dual flyrant is pretty much a sub-optimal build at this point. People trying to make the last codex (and edition's) armies still feel like they are the best. I think time will show that flyrants are just to expensive and fragile.

I'm finding the opposite. The ability to use all of the psychic powers effectively, awesome shooting, good in CC, the tactical advantage of their mobility and the defensive boost of swooping all for 230 points; I think Flyrants are amazing as long as you don't charge them straight at your opponent like an idiot.

Granted, my local meta might have less Skyfire and more terrain to hide behind than yours, so YMMV.

Its not the sky fire that gets them its the grounding tests.

 Gloomfang wrote:
Its not the sky fire that gets them its the grounding tests.

All my lists start with a prime and deathleaper

Noctem wrote:

 Rommel44 wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
Warriors have gotten panned (again) but is there any merit to a larger number, like 9 in 1 or 3 squads with STs rending claws and adrenal glands? Seems pretty cheap-ish at 360 to keep up with Hormies or something else fleet.

Warriors are great in large numbers, as you give a squad of 9x all Deathspitters and then you attach a Prime to them and then you can have 30x S5 shots a turn with them. I have already play tested them with 9x Warriors outflanking with these and they have done awesome so far, and I will be attaching a Prime to them to give them some extra killing power to see what they can do. Warriors still make a great Synapse-Base for you other units, and they are worth taking in both small units, and can be pretty nasty in 9x man units as well.

Would 9x with scytals and bone swords be at all decent? I really want to run cc Shrikes!

I do not think 9x with that option will be good. If you rather take some with bone swords, or bone sword and lash whip and use 5 shrikes "bare" to soak up wounds you will have a much better unit. Each one that dies only cost 30, not a heart and a lung.

I don't even take devourers on Shrikes. I trade my devourer for scytals and I trade one set of scytals for rending and LW/BS. I want my Shrikes running if they have to not shooting. I get five attacks on th charge, I get two Shrikes that will strike first and I get four rending attacks ( just in case). The unit is not cheap.

6 Shrikes, Scything Talons, 4x Rending Claws, 2x Lashwhip and Bonesword 240

You will average seven kills against Meq on the charge so you will likely get rending and ID in there. With three wounds each they are sticking around and you target the PF or PW model by getting base to base with your LW/BS striking first. This unit does just fine if played carefully.

Warriors on foot need to be shooty. Now you could use nine Shrikes I suppose. But I think that is a bit overkill.

You are way under estimating the damage that shrike unit would do against MEQ.
Start of with 6 S4 HoW attacks at ap- At I10.
At I7 you have 12 attacks on the charge at AP3.
I4 is anouther 24 S4 AP5 rending attacks.

Shrikes can put out a ton of damage.

Hmm, so that's, what, 0.5 dead marines from HoW, 3 more at I7, and 2 from rends plus 1.33 from regular wounds, for about 7 dead marines... not bad!

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Hmm, so that's, what, 0.5 dead marines from HoW, 3 more at I7, and 2 from rends plus 1.33 from regular wounds, for about 7 dead marines... not bad!

It's 1 dead marine from HoW (auto-hit), then 4 more at I7, then about 4 overall from rends + normal wounds, for a total of about 9 dead MEQ. Don't forget that Warriors are WS5, so they hit MEQ on a 3+.

Yep. You are right - probably more than seven. Never been an issue. My Shrikes just win combats.

 Roboute wrote:

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Hmm, so that's, what, 0.5 dead marines from HoW, 3 more at I7, and 2 from rends plus 1.33 from regular wounds, for about 7 dead marines... not bad!

It's 1 dead marine from HoW (auto-hit), then 4 more at I7, then about 4 overall from rends + normal wounds, for a total of about 9 dead MEQ. Don't forget that Warriors are WS5, so they hit MEQ on a 3+.

Personally, I'd run:

3 Bone Sword / Flesh Hooks / Scytals
3 Rending Claws / Scytals
3 Stock

I think that Flesh Hooks are going to be worth their points more often than your lashwhips on these guys.

So I got a decent game in last night, and the Nids played admirably. It was 2 on 2, 1750 each. I allied with Orks against Sisters of Battle and Dark Angels.

Now I may be biased, but overall I think my list killed the most out of the four lists playing, and while we just barely lost (we were playing a kind of stacked mission with one objective entrenched in their line) at no point did I feel I was outgunned or underpowered.

Zoanthropes with Catalyst and Venomthropes backing up a squad of Devilfexes is a thing to behold, I can't see myself taking a list without three Devilfexes now. They vaporized a Landspeeder squadron that veered too close, put the hurt on a big squad of bikers in a shooting phase and forced them to fail the charge from Overwatch, then later in the game pulped St. Celestine, then finished her off (for the second time) on a charge on the last turn to grab Slay the Warlord.

This is my first time using the Mawloc in the new codex, and I got incredibly lucky by getting two direct hits (one on their quad gun, one on St. Celestine's squad once it Deep Striked) and the mishap is definitely an improvement in disguise. I did lose it on the second one, but the first mishap had them place the Mawloc back across the board rather than right in their firing line. I know I won't be that lucky usually but I'm definitely taking him again.

Ah, forgot about WS5. Good point.