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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





United Kingdom

Id like to say that I never once moaned about anything in the codex and I was a big fan of it from the start. So I'll just sit over here on my high horse, all smug and stuff.

   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran





 PrinceRaven wrote:
To be honest, while not my major complaint, I did voice concerns over their ability to compete at first and I'm glad we've figured out how to make it work. I just wish it didn't feel like we were competitive in spite of the Codex and we had some better internal balance and versatility.


I wonder if they decided that Leviathan is where the balance and versatility would come from, write a "bland" version of that unit and then give it a special rule that makes it better with Leviathan?. No offence at all too you but id prefer we were not like Tau/Eldar who are competitive because of there codex.
   
Made in au
Tea-Kettle of Blood




Adelaide, South Australia

Tau/Eldar have a few extremely powerful unit and wargear they spam to be OP

We have a few powerful units and wargear we spam to be competitive.

We already are Tau/Eldar, just not as powerful.

 Ailaros wrote:
You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.

"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" 
   
Made in za
Fixture of Dakka




Temple Prime

I've noticed that the Tyranid formations seem really intent on selling warriors (virtually all ground pounding tyranid formations require a warrior brood) to the point that I think either someone has a fetish for them or is being paid on a per warrior model sold basis.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.



 
   
Made in au
Infiltrating Broodlord





Brisbane

 xttz wrote:
Harridans are by far the best of the Nid Apoc units. S10 vector strikes followed up by lots of S10 firepower can wreck virtually anything, and many D-weapons will be unable to snapshot at it until it's grounded.

The Harridan's main vulnerability is that they can still be grounded by lasguns, but that's more of a BRB issue than the unit itself.


I fail to see how S3 can shoot at T8.. Anything T4 or less can't touch a Harridan, can't shoot at = can't force grounding checks.

 
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan






 Zande4 wrote:
 xttz wrote:
Harridans are by far the best of the Nid Apoc units. S10 vector strikes followed up by lots of S10 firepower can wreck virtually anything, and many D-weapons will be unable to snapshot at it until it's grounded.

The Harridan's main vulnerability is that they can still be grounded by lasguns, but that's more of a BRB issue than the unit itself.


I fail to see how S3 can shoot at T8.. Anything T4 or less can't touch a Harridan, can't shoot at = can't force grounding checks.


What rule stops you shooting S3 at a T8 target? I know you can't charge vehicles you can't hurt, but I can't find anything that prevents shooting things you can't wound.

All you need is a hit to force a grounding check, not a wound.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the rumours thread a supposedly real list of the Onslaught formations out tomorrow. I won't paste them here in case they're not true.,

The consensus so far is that they're OK, but not as good as Invasion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/28 09:07:35


 
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





 Zande4 wrote:
 xttz wrote:
Harridans are by far the best of the Nid Apoc units. S10 vector strikes followed up by lots of S10 firepower can wreck virtually anything, and many D-weapons will be unable to snapshot at it until it's grounded.

The Harridan's main vulnerability is that they can still be grounded by lasguns, but that's more of a BRB issue than the unit itself.


I fail to see how S3 can shoot at T8.. Anything T4 or less can't touch a Harridan, can't shoot at = can't force grounding checks.

And markerlights have no S value at all - surely they can't fire at anything!
Or... there's no rule forbidding you from wasting your shots, and a grounding test only requires a hit - not a wound.

My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
 
   
Made in us
Huge Hierodule





Louisiana

 xttz wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the rumours thread a supposedly real list of the Onslaught formations out tomorrow. I won't paste them here in case they're not true.,

The consensus so far is that they're OK, but not as good as Invasion.


I read those and to my eyes, they look like good guesses more than accurate rumors.

Digital products, unlike the printed ones, don't need any 3rd party manufacturing before release. This means that the only people with access to the true rules are the writers/designers, and anyone they've given access for playtesting. A random GW store doesn't scream to me as a likely place that has "hacked" into these new formations early.

That said, we will see the digital release within the next 10 hours or less when it becomes available at 00:00 GMT. Just like last month, i'll gladly read any reviews of the new rules as they become available, i've already preordered mine and will have it downloaded at Midnight here in the US.

Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it. 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Grand Rapids Metro

 tetrisphreak wrote:
 xttz wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the rumours thread a supposedly real list of the Onslaught formations out tomorrow. I won't paste them here in case they're not true.,

The consensus so far is that they're OK, but not as good as Invasion.


I read those and to my eyes, they look like good guesses more than accurate rumors.


Indeed, on a few different thread I have unknowingly made some near identical guesses.

Those also feel a bit odd...not the typical GW USR applications.

Come play games in West Michigan at https://www.facebook.com/tcpgrwarroom 
   
Made in us
Huge Hierodule





Louisiana

OK so i have to retract my previous statement as it appears the user Citadel is posting these same exact formations in the tactics thread. He was dead-on about the Leviathan 2 formations a day early, so i have to think his claims contain veracity.

That being said let's do a quick recap of the formations and potential in-game uses for fielding fluffy lists that can compete: (i'll leave rumored rules out, check the other threads for those if you're unaware)


1.) Bioblast node - Warriors gaining split-fire and re-rolling 1's on their shooting attacks can be pretty useful, allowing the bio cannon in the brood to engage far targets while the deathspitters deal with nearby threats. I see this being used with tons of dakkafexes, if at all. 3/5 rating.

2.)Wrecker Node - Extra hammer of wrath, and re-rolling to wound with obligatory warriors. Everything here except for the extra fex HOW hits can be done with biomorphs (toxin sacs). I only see this one being used if someone wants to cram as many screamer-killers as they can into their lists. 1/5 rating.

3.) Tyrant node- Useful, but not great. If you're taking a walking tyrant anyway, there's no reason not to use this formation instead as it increases his synapse range. Would be spectacular with swarmlord, but i'm unsure if he would count as a "hive tyrant" for formation requirement purposes. 3/5 rating.

4.) Subterranean Swarm - This one intrigues me a lot, but mostly because i love raveners and trygons. Expensive to field, but when it comes into play the enemy suddenly has threat overload. 4/5 rating (for me), i suspect 3/5 for those not enamored with the snakey tyranids.

5.) Living Tide - Apoc only, as the formation calls for 3000+ points of models just to field in a standard game. That being said, I think it's a great starting point for a themed apocalypse army - super synaptic control with tons of respawning little guys, some flyers, etc. Toss in a couple trygons or the subterranean swarm, and the respawned gribblies will be right in the opponent's face when they come back. 5/5 rating in apocalypse, 0/5 in standard play as most games are 2000 points and below.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/28 14:38:07


Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it. 
   
Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User



Ottawa

bodazoka wrote:
When the dex came out the negative "narrative" was based around competitiveness, there were of course negatives towards the fluff and perceived lack of imagination but most of the comments were "Nids cant compete"

Now..

Instead of giving the dex is credit because we can now all see it can compete and that those criticisms were false the narrative instead of being positive changes to "No I didn't care about competing it was the fluff / lack of imagination I hated" *

You really just cant win when people grab hold of something.

* I will concede a minority of people will legitimately say they never once whined about the competitiveness and it was all about the other perceived problems.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ductvader wrote:
I personally believe that Leviathan II and III were mostly developed following the release of the codex in an attempt to balance out determined weak units.

Which is not a bad idea...especially from a sales perspective.


I agree.

No one will give GW props for actually responding to community concerns though.



Give GW props??? Are you kidding me?? Give them props for milking people for $45 worth of digital content...It's bloody 50 bucks dude....that's 75% the cost of the codex....How can you even defend this?
   
Made in us
Huge Hierodule





Louisiana

vortexdr wrote:
bodazoka wrote:
When the dex came out the negative "narrative" was based around competitiveness, there were of course negatives towards the fluff and perceived lack of imagination but most of the comments were "Nids cant compete"

Now..

Instead of giving the dex is credit because we can now all see it can compete and that those criticisms were false the narrative instead of being positive changes to "No I didn't care about competing it was the fluff / lack of imagination I hated" *

You really just cant win when people grab hold of something.

* I will concede a minority of people will legitimately say they never once whined about the competitiveness and it was all about the other perceived problems.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ductvader wrote:
I personally believe that Leviathan II and III were mostly developed following the release of the codex in an attempt to balance out determined weak units.

Which is not a bad idea...especially from a sales perspective.


I agree.

No one will give GW props for actually responding to community concerns though.



Give GW props??? Are you kidding me?? Give them props for milking people for $45 worth of digital content...It's bloody 50 bucks dude....that's 75% the cost of the codex....How can you even defend this?



Honestly, a lot of these rules that are in the formations could have been injected into the codex entries, making them useful without extra content.

However, i don't see any other codices currently getting new formations and dataslates on a monthly basis - that shows that GW is giving attention to our army. That in itself is a good thing - the rules exist, but it's not mandatory you purchase them. For people like me, $15 per month for 3 months is WAY easier to pay than 1 lump payment of $45 or $50 bucks. For people who even don't want to do that, well, i'm sure there are PDFs available containing all the reference material you would need to field these formations.

The bottom line is while we can lament that the ball was dropped in lots of cases with the codex itself, there are fixes being done that breathe life and competitiveness back into it if you're willing to accept them. Extra content is extra, and I will always be happy to see my army supported.

Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 tetrisphreak wrote:
vortexdr wrote:
bodazoka wrote:
When the dex came out the negative "narrative" was based around competitiveness, there were of course negatives towards the fluff and perceived lack of imagination but most of the comments were "Nids cant compete"

Now..

Instead of giving the dex is credit because we can now all see it can compete and that those criticisms were false the narrative instead of being positive changes to "No I didn't care about competing it was the fluff / lack of imagination I hated" *

You really just cant win when people grab hold of something.

* I will concede a minority of people will legitimately say they never once whined about the competitiveness and it was all about the other perceived problems.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ductvader wrote:
I personally believe that Leviathan II and III were mostly developed following the release of the codex in an attempt to balance out determined weak units.

Which is not a bad idea...especially from a sales perspective.


I agree.

No one will give GW props for actually responding to community concerns though.



Give GW props??? Are you kidding me?? Give them props for milking people for $45 worth of digital content...It's bloody 50 bucks dude....that's 75% the cost of the codex....How can you even defend this?



Honestly, a lot of these rules that are in the formations could have been injected into the codex entries, making them useful without extra content.

However, i don't see any other codices currently getting new formations and dataslates on a monthly basis - that shows that GW is giving attention to our army. That in itself is a good thing - the rules exist, but it's not mandatory you purchase them. For people like me, $15 per month for 3 months is WAY easier to pay than 1 lump payment of $45 or $50 bucks. For people who even don't want to do that, well, i'm sure there are PDFs available containing all the reference material you would need to field these formations.

The bottom line is while we can lament that the ball was dropped in lots of cases with the codex itself, there are fixes being done that breathe life and competitiveness back into it if you're willing to accept them. Extra content is extra, and I will always be happy to see my army supported.


Eff, we are getting 3 dataslates that we knew about from day one. I don't see it as much compared to codexs that get full supplements (leviathan should have been) and datalates. Really DA got the short straw on the Digital releases, though not the nids so that is something.
   
Made in us
Sneaky Lictor





I remain of the same opinion that I had before the Nid codex came out....I am exclusively a Tyranid player, for life. I don't like the changes, but I don't have to. I refuse to play another race. They're boring.

OTOH, this codex IS uninspired/uninspiring....For the most part, units that were good before remained good and units that were barely used before are barely used (competitively speaking).

With that said, I think what WOULD be the BEST POSSIBLE FIX for 40K at this point in the F**ked up place it is right now is to removed the ally chart completely.

If you like allies, you're stupid. It breaks everything this game is supposed to be about: "In the grim dark future there is only war.....[except if you want to ally with another race, then it's okay...]" what?!

If you wanna play the, "well allies are cool! They happen in real wars right?" Sure! Play that card! But then do away with battle brothers completely!!! At best, different races should still be skeptical of each other when they are allied.....

Thats just my two cents in regard to why the game is so broken in its current state and it's effect on the Tyranid codex. The Tyranid codex is fine when compared to EVERY book EXCEPT those that take need and do take advantage of battle brothers (Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Tau are the repeat offenders). IMHO I think the only justified ally out there is Chaos Deamons and CSM.....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/28 19:09:30


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

 Kain wrote:
I've noticed that the Tyranid formations seem really intent on selling warriors (virtually all ground pounding tyranid formations require a warrior brood) to the point that I think either someone has a fetish for them or is being paid on a per warrior model sold basis.

I think it is more an example of warriors being a significantly overcosted unit, and thus it is the tax we pay for the special rules associated with the various formations. Just like the TGaunt tax for taking a Tervigon as a troop.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





United Kingdom

Id say Marines and Imperial Guard are a pretty justifiable Battle Brothers.

   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran





vortexdr wrote:
Give GW props??? Are you kidding me?? Give them props for milking people for $45 worth of digital content...It's bloody 50 bucks dude....that's 75% the cost of the codex....How can you even defend this?


tetrisphreak sums up my feelings perfectly.

I swear if they had of put it all together and called it "supplement Leviathan" people would love the dataslates... which makes my head explode... It's exactly the same bloody thing!

Anyway... I love the new Fex formation! that is likely the best of the lot. And the subterranean assault one makes me wonder, you could do HUGE thread over load turn 2.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/29 01:35:57


 
   
Made in us
Lurking Gaunt



New York

New slate is out and it's a laugh. Here's a question that will probably only be truly answered with a FAQ

Fill a NORMAL FOC. Then take formations, units in the formations fulfill battlefield roles as normal, troops are troops, elite are elite, etc, so can an HQ from a formation BE the Warlord?
   
Made in us
Huge Hierodule





Louisiana

notbriang wrote:
New slate is out and it's a laugh. Here's a question that will probably only be truly answered with a FAQ

Fill a NORMAL FOC. Then take formations, units in the formations fulfill battlefield roles as normal, troops are troops, elite are elite, etc, so can an HQ from a formation BE the Warlord?


No as the warlord must come from your primary detachment.

Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it. 
   
Made in us
Lurking Gaunt



New York

 tetrisphreak wrote:
notbriang wrote:
New slate is out and it's a laugh. Here's a question that will probably only be truly answered with a FAQ

Fill a NORMAL FOC. Then take formations, units in the formations fulfill battlefield roles as normal, troops are troops, elite are elite, etc, so can an HQ from a formation BE the Warlord?


No as the warlord must come from your primary detachment.


Understand that this is probably the way, but my confusion lies with where that "primary detachment" part is. It only appears in deciding your Warlord in 2,000+ point games when the Double FOC comes into play. Otherwise, Warlord choice simply states that it's the highest Ld model (choose specifics in a tie).

Don't want to completely spin out, so I'll just leave that here and disappear again.
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Am I the only one who found the walking tyrant formation a bit underwhelming? I'm not sure what I wanted them to do but I was hoping for something that made me sit up and consider it to be a rival option to the standard flyrant HQ every army seems to run.
   
Made in au
Tea-Kettle of Blood




Adelaide, South Australia

Everyone finds it underwhelming.

 Ailaros wrote:
You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.

"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" 
   
Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Teesside

I think the only purpose for it is to get an extra Tyrant into your army. 2 flyrants and a walkrant could be pretty nifty in theory. But the points cost is prohibitive for what you get, I think, in most lists.

My painting & modelling blog: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/699224.page

Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
http://serpentking.com/

 
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan






The main benefit of most of these formations is going to be ignoring the FOC. The Tyrant one especially means that you can squeeze in more Tyrants (our best all-rounder unit) and more Venoms (making them harder to pick off in turn 1). Tyranids especially have all sorts of benefits from smaller units... single Carnifexes can ignore the worst IB roll when alone, and can spread out to threaten a larger area. Solo Venoms can be easier to hide totally out of LoS. I'm already seeing all sorts of non-FMC based builds that - while they aren't going to redefine the meta - will still be pretty tough in most casual games.

While we all would have liked GW to fix the glaring faults in the codex, that was never going to happen 2 months after it came out... they didn't understand how to do it before the codex was published and they're not suddenly going to learn now.
Time to make do with what we got, folks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/29 12:34:52


 
   
Made in ca
Scuttling Genestealer



Canada

Had my second game since the new codex! I played vs my friend's new Space marine army (Iron Arms i think?).

My armie:
Walkrant, Tl BL Dev and HVC

5x Genes
5x Genes

3x Zoan

1x Harpy

1x trygon prime with miasma

Endless swarm
3X Warrios ( 2x deathspitter, one venom canon)
10X Horma
10x Horma
11x Horma
20X Devgaunts
20x Devgaunts
20X Devgaunts

He had roughtly:
1 HQ with a sword, with 5 marines (maybe a special one) in a landraider.
1 group of 5 marines (one leader and one special weapon) walking
1 group of 5 marines (one leader and one special weapon) in a pod.
5X Scout with snipers and rocket
1 dearnouht in a pod
5X Hammer and Shield Termies
1 Flyer
1 Small tank with rocket
1 Tank

(sorry, i dont know much the other armies =P)

We were playing the relic, the map was split in two by a river (dangerous terrain) with a small bridge with the relic on it. The map was symetrical, 1 good ruins each, and 3 pieces of difficult terrain for cover.
Too much happenned for me to do a proper batrep, but my thoughs.

Zoan are still my MVP. Love them so much and only reliable way to kill tanks i have. (Need to be in range for MC creature)
Biovores are fun, they let me shoot every possible turns. They did almost nothing though. Hate armored enemies, only time they were good was vs cultist.
Genestealer and the trygon prime occupied a good part of his army in the back field. He had to waste his termies there instead of on my HT. Trygon killed a squad and a tank (only about 200 pts) but on the next turn, some devgaunts would have popped in his zone.
Devsgaunts, still great, did decent damage. Maybe not as much as when i run them 30x.
Hormagaunts.... why won't they die. I've spend 3 turns in the dangerous terrain, being shot by a squad of marines. I charged him with only 2 vs 3 marines. He couldn't overwatch them and only managed to kill 1 in two rounds of combat. Really can't count on them to die and use the tunnel. =X
harpy was okish, but was on board when his flyer entered and he won the flying duel (with the help of the land raider)

I had the relic for most of the game. but at the end, i made a mistake. Instead of just letting my devs near the one warrior alive (with the relic) to take it if it drops, i tied his HQ squad in CC, But his immobilized dreadnaught killed my warrior. So he had first blood and maybe line breaker. The game ended the first turn it could end, next turn i'd have gotten line breaker and probably removed his line breaker. so very close game, we both made some mistake, was fun. =D


-Hive Fleet Wyvern, yay for nids! (around 1000 points) 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Wichita, KS

 xttz wrote:
While we all would have liked GW to fix the glaring faults in the codex, that was never going to happen 2 months after it came out... they didn't understand how to do it before the codex was published and they're not suddenly going to learn now.
Time to make do with what we got, folks.

GW is using modern business decision making. The short term is all that matters. Long term growth is unappealing because it involves investing money into the business that could be paid out immediately to executives and shareholders. If the company is eventually driven into the ground, who cares, because everyone has already cashed out. Modern economic incentives favor this sort of strategy, because initial growth is highly profitable for shareholders and executives, but once a certain size is reached, the profit margin for future growth is greatly diminished, so cashing out, then starting over produces the most money for the people making the decisions.

To that end, they have created a codex designed to sell as many of their new models (Crones, Exocrines) as fast as possible, because these models have the highest margin on them. Older models with a lower margin like Genesteelers shouldn't be sold. They could raise the margin on Genesteelers, but doing so would look bad on their balance sheets for Crones / Exocrines because the ROI wasn't immediate, and would alienate customers more quickly. People don't like to pay more for the same thing, and they want a slow decline. Losing 10-20% of customers a year. Also selling the digital dataslates is probably the highest margin thing they do, so I would expect to see lots more of that coming.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Addaran wrote:
Zoan are still my MVP. Love them so much and only reliable way to kill tanks i have. (Need to be in range for MC creature)

I played 2 games yesterday. In the first game I had 2 squads of 1 Zoey. I tried to warp lance armor 6 times. 1 Failed Psychic Test, 2 Deny the Witches, 2 Missed shots, and 1 Failed to glance or penetrate (rolled a 1). It was truly a great day for Zoeys.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/29 14:55:25


 
   
Made in ca
Scuttling Genestealer



Canada

tag8833 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Addaran wrote:
Zoan are still my MVP. Love them so much and only reliable way to kill tanks i have. (Need to be in range for MC creature)

I played 2 games yesterday. In the first game I had 2 squads of 1 Zoey. I tried to warp lance armor 6 times. 1 Failed Psychic Test, 2 Deny the Witches, 2 Missed shots, and 1 Failed to glance or penetrate (rolled a 1). It was truly a great day for Zoeys.


Mine were all together. might have been overkill, but when i want something dead, it's almost sure to die. the landraider would have exploded and been immobilized twice(in one turn!).
Just one lance on the other hand (my tyrant rolled it) just immobilized the dreadnaught. The zoan also draws a lot of fire while being tough. 3++ makes them one of the toughess one, outside of FMCs and tyranofex.
Probably could have killed another tank with them, but only 1 was in range. Decided to go for the cool factor and tried to blast his Flyer with 3 lances, but they all missed. only failed on leadership test, and no deny the wich worked.


Just to make sure i have the rule right with the brood of psychic and assault 3 witch fire.... if one zoan is at 17'' and the other ones just a bit over 18''. Only one lance will come out right? or because it's a brood, they count as one huge psyker and the 3 lances can come from the same part?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/29 16:33:25


-Hive Fleet Wyvern, yay for nids! (around 1000 points) 
   
Made in mx
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan




Mexico

Addaran wrote:
tag8833 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Addaran wrote:
Zoan are still my MVP. Love them so much and only reliable way to kill tanks i have. (Need to be in range for MC creature)

I played 2 games yesterday. In the first game I had 2 squads of 1 Zoey. I tried to warp lance armor 6 times. 1 Failed Psychic Test, 2 Deny the Witches, 2 Missed shots, and 1 Failed to glance or penetrate (rolled a 1). It was truly a great day for Zoeys.


Mine were all together. might have been overkill, but when i want something dead, it's almost sure to die. the landraider would have exploded and been immobilized twice(in one turn!).
Just one lance on the other hand (my tyrant rolled it) just immobilized the dreadnaught. The zoan also draws a lot of fire while being tough. 3++ makes them one of the toughess one, outside of FMCs and tyranofex.
Probably could have killed another tank with them, but only 1 was in range. Decided to go for the cool factor and tried to blast his Flyer with 3 lances, but they all missed. only failed on leadership test, and no deny the wich worked.


Just to make sure i have the rule right with the brood of psychic and assault 3 witch fire.... if one zoan is at 17'' and the other ones just a bit over 18''. Only one lance will come out right? or because it's a brood, they count as one huge psyker and the 3 lances can come from the same part?

From the same part.
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan






tag8833 wrote:
 xttz wrote:
While we all would have liked GW to fix the glaring faults in the codex, that was never going to happen 2 months after it came out... they didn't understand how to do it before the codex was published and they're not suddenly going to learn now.
Time to make do with what we got, folks.

GW is using modern business decision making. The short term is all that matters. Long term growth is unappealing because it involves investing money into the business that could be paid out immediately to executives and shareholders. If the company is eventually driven into the ground, who cares, because everyone has already cashed out. Modern economic incentives favor this sort of strategy, because initial growth is highly profitable for shareholders and executives, but once a certain size is reached, the profit margin for future growth is greatly diminished, so cashing out, then starting over produces the most money for the people making the decisions.

To that end, they have created a codex designed to sell as many of their new models (Crones, Exocrines) as fast as possible, because these models have the highest margin on them. Older models with a lower margin like Genesteelers shouldn't be sold. They could raise the margin on Genesteelers, but doing so would look bad on their balance sheets for Crones / Exocrines because the ROI wasn't immediate, and would alienate customers more quickly. People don't like to pay more for the same thing, and they want a slow decline. Losing 10-20% of customers a year. Also selling the digital dataslates is probably the highest margin thing they do, so I would expect to see lots more of that coming.


You're overcomplicating things somewhat here. Regardless of what the tinfoil collective on here may rant about, I honestly don't believe GW design rules (or expansions) around pushing specific models. They want to push all the models, as often as they can. It's quite easy to see that there's a very random correlation between units with good rules and new units with supposedly good RoI. If that was the case, why is the Wave Serpent kit (over a decade old) the star of the last Eldar codex? Why didn't we see squadrons of undercosted Crimson Hunters instead? How come the Dark Angels fighter and over-sized land speeder were mediocre at best? Why do Daemons still have a brand new kit that's virtually useless because they forgot to put (or FAQ) the Relentless USR on it? Hive/Tyrant Guard got a brand new kit, but didn't really improve at all rule-wise. The Pyrovore was a brand new kit for the 5E codex, yet the rules were an utter abortion then too.

The explanation is much simpler. GW just don't know how to write balanced units, and don't care enough to try. The rules team go with the rules that sound the coolest, and what made for the best narratives during their limited play-testing. The process is very simple...

1) The Sales drones (many with no understanding of the game) crunch their spreadsheets, see that unit X for army Y is selling well, and order the design studio to design a similar model for army Z.
2) The design studio does some sketches, then design a model kit around them. The spare space on the sprue determines what optional extras they get.
3) The rules team then writes a codex around all these new models, plus reviews the old ones to some extent. Rather than cross-compare between codexes with various statistics and math-hammer, they play the game. If a certain unit or unit combo happens to do a little too well, it gets toned down (even if that was down to lucky dice). If a unit is especially entertaining ("Hey this Pyrovore just EXPLODED! How cool is that?!"), then it's probably fine in their minds.
After over 25 years of 40k, we're at the point where some races have a lot of units and upgrade combinations. Loads. Not all options are going to make their way into this play-testing, and often some won't receive the full attention they deserve. When the rules guys are under pressure from above to develop the next codex or expansion, they simply aren't going to be able to devote hundreds of games into making sure everything works as it should. Their bosses certainly aren't telling them to develop the most balanced game since Chess. Their brief is just to make a document that ties all these models together to be sold.

Any models. All the models.

tag8833 wrote:
I played 2 games yesterday. In the first game I had 2 squads of 1 Zoey. I tried to warp lance armor 6 times. 1 Failed Psychic Test, 2 Deny the Witches, 2 Missed shots, and 1 Failed to glance or penetrate (rolled a 1). It was truly a great day for Zoeys.

I honestly think Zoeys are more hampered by the BRB than their own rules. Psychic shooting is really silly, as you have so many hoops to jump through with no benefit... psychic test (which can kill you), DtW, then rolling to hit.

They (and many other units) would fare a lot better if you could skip at least one of those steps. Either psychic shooting should hit automatically like Blessings / Maledictions do, or DtW should be curtailed to stop non-psykers using it.
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan



UK

Has anyone tried an endless swarm + Trygon tunnels?

Can you assault from reserves (not outflanking)?

Even if not, still will be quicker + MSU Dakkagaunts seems quite viable - Deploy & shoot. May survive, if not loose a turn.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Friend of mine just sent me this:

"The Tyranid Codex, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this codex is the worst hell on earth... Hope. ."
Too be fair.. it's all worked out quite well!

Heh.  
   
 
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