Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Verviedi wrote:
The Haruspex is pretty decent at popping LRs and killing Riptides/NDKs. With Adrenal Glands, it'll be Str 8 on the charge, which will be instagibbing Paladins. In a pod it could be a nice DISTRACTION CARNIFEX replacement.
Unfortunately it lacks the initiative and WS required to be a truly good CQC monster, and it doesn't have enough wounds to get to CQC in the Age of Shooting. Finally, it's too slow, but a pod/Adr glands would mitigate this. I would rate it at a C- stock, and C with Adr Glands, definately not the F or D you guys are giving it. Thoughts? I will trust a more experienced Haruspex user to write up a true review.
Can you please explain why you rate it so poorly?

I've run the Haruspex 40 or so times. The Haruspex and Hive Guard are my goto models if I want to intentionally lose a game.

A Haruspex isn't really capable of killing a riptide without help, at least not unless the riptide fails a leadership and gets overrun. If the riptide nova charges its invul, but doesn't have FNP, it will only be taking 0.44 wounds a turn (.88 on the charge assuming A.G.). Compare that to the Hauspex who is taking .75 wounds a turn (1.0 if the riptide charges). A riptide is actually better in assault than a Haruspex. On top of that, a riptide can Kill a Haruspex in shooting without too much trouble.

A Nemesis Dreadknight is even worse. It strikes at a higher initiative, and comes with a psychic power to improve its invul by one, plus for 5 points it can get force which ends the Haruspex before it even gets a chance to swing. But lets assume that the Dreadknight owner was too cheap to give it force. Now, the Haruspex is doing 1.00 wounds, but the 4++ is saving 1/2 so only 0.50 go through, or 1.00 assuming A.G. on the charge. The NDK is doing 2.22 unsaved wounds back or 2.78 on the charge.

So no, the Haruspex is certainly not good at killing Riptides or Nemesis Dreadknights. It can instagib Paladins, but Paladins swing 1st, and have force weapons, so it would require poor play by the opponent for it to pull that trick off. Land Raiders don't fight back so it is capable there. Generally going to take 2 turns to kill one, but at least it isn't suicidal.

As far as using it as a Distraction carnifex. If you feel like Carnifexes are just too cheap, and would really like to throw away some points, then the Haruspex is the model for you.

Oh ok I think I've misunderstood your grading. So A grade units are specifically the ones that are pretty much auto take and only left out on very rare occasions? So practically Flyrants and Mope/Zope are really the only A grade units? Because that makes sense I guess and I would agree that Pyrovores are not in this category.


I do think your argument is a little over exaggerated however, I mean by your logic, Biovores are pretty trash right? I mean with the explanation you gave right there for why they are so bad against each of those competitive lists, Biovores do absolutely everything just as badly or worse, except for the Nid match up where they could kill Rippers in subsequent turns. I'm just wondering how you feel about them, at least compared to Biovores.

But keep in mind these are specifically YOUR competitive lists, and against something that isn't 4x Flyrants for example, the Pyrovores completely nuke a Malanthrope and anything walking next to it for cover, or deny the cover save entirely.

I do see your underlying point that Pyrovores only get one shot at it, and yeah some games it might derp completely. I think the best point you made was that it might just completely blast a squad of Dire Avengers and then die. You are right against MSU it's worse than Biovores, who can nuke a squad a turn if they aren't inside a vehicle. I think against the bulk of armies you will get more out of a Pyrovore, but there is as you said a trade off for consistency, some armies they will be worse. Against say Tau, it's quite possible Pyrovores are the best unit in the dex. And I think it's a coverage unit that you take when you feel like you are good vs certain builds. I don't think it's ever as risky as you say, I think the flamers unit is an important one, Against wave serpent spam I don't feel like any choice of Biovore, Crone, TFex, or Pyrovore is doing a whole lot, Biovore is probably the best bet since it will clear squads cheaply to stop them being annoying, but really the rest all have their disadvantages here. In some match ups the role is less necessary, part of building TAC. Some games a 4+ cover save will ruin you. Some games are vs Tau where I think Pyrovores and pods is one of the best investments you can make I think we might be on the same page a little with this actuallyp, I see you saying it's not bad just that it's niche which I can agree with. Definitely think it's on par with or above the other options in its role, especially in the right list.

The problem is that all the ratings are entirely subjective of the person who wrote the list. Biovores in my experience have typically been near the top of the MVP choices each battle. They offer so much to the Nid army. Until recently Lictors would have been thrown into that trash department until someone took the time to actually use them and won with them. Whether that is a function of the Lictor, that Player, or that Players meta is unknown. But now everyone is jumping on the Lictor bandwagon.

^ I'm not.

And really, a handful of posters in a thread doesnt make it a must have unit. I'm glad he won with them but thats as far as I'm willing to go down the Lictor trail. (and I like Lictors)

Fragile wrote:
The problem is that all the ratings are entirely subjective of the person who wrote the list. Biovores in my experience have typically been near the top of the MVP choices each battle. They offer so much to the Nid army. Until recently Lictors would have been thrown into that trash department until someone took the time to actually use them and won with them. Whether that is a function of the Lictor, that Player, or that Players meta is unknown. But now everyone is jumping on the Lictor bandwagon.

Lictors on their own are turd. they only work with Mawlocs and in Maelstrom missions. Deathleapers Character and Lictors in general are one of the many factors that got me playing Nids though.
Such an awesome design. I wish they where better!

 SHUPPET wrote:
Oh ok I think I've misunderstood your grading. So A grade units are specifically the ones that are pretty much auto take and only left out on very rare occasions? So practically Flyrants and Mope/Zope are really the only A grade units? Because that makes sense I guess and I would agree that Pyrovores are not in this category.


I do think your argument is a little over exaggerated however, I mean by your logic, Biovores are pretty trash right? I mean with the explanation you gave right there for why they are so bad against each of those competitive lists, Biovores do absolutely everything just as badly or worse, except for the Nid match up where they could kill Rippers in subsequent turns. I'm just wondering how you feel about them, at least compared to Biovores.

But keep in mind these are specifically YOUR competitive lists, and against something that isn't 4x Flyrants for example, the Pyrovores completely nuke a Malanthrope and anything walking next to it for cover, or deny the cover save entirely.

I do see your underlying point that Pyrovores only get one shot at it, and yeah some games it might derp completely. I think the best point you made was that it might just completely blast a squad of Dire Avengers and then die. You are right against MSU it's worse than Biovores, who can nuke a squad a turn if they aren't inside a vehicle. I think against the bulk of armies you will get more out of a Pyrovore, but there is as you said a trade off for consistency, some armies they will be worse. Against say Tau, it's quite possible Pyrovores are the best unit in the dex. And I think it's a coverage unit that you take when you feel like you are good vs certain builds. I don't think it's ever as risky as you say, I think the flamers unit is an important one, Against wave serpent spam I don't feel like any choice of Biovore, Crone, TFex, or Pyrovore is doing a whole lot, Biovore is probably the best bet since it will clear squads cheaply to stop them being annoying, but really the rest all have their disadvantages here. In some match ups the role is less necessary, part of building TAC. Some games a 4+ cover save will ruin you. Some games are vs Tau where I think Pyrovores and pods is one of the best investments you can make I think we might be on the same page a little with this actuallyp, I see you saying it's not bad just that it's niche which I can agree with. Definitely think it's on par with or above the other options in its role, especially in the right list.

The difference between biovores and pyrovores is this. The pyrovore (in a pod) comes in, does its damage if there are any viable targets (and it does it well, even better than the biovore) but then that's about it. Rarely will he have a second chance to flame another unit. He is good for 1 potential strong alpha-strike (if there are targets) and then his efficacy goes down dramatically.

The biovore has better long-term sustainability offense-wise. He has the same problem as the pyrovore with regards to the initial targets (i.e. initially, there may not be good targets for him just as there may not be good targets for the pyrovores). However, as the game goes on, he has better and better targets as well as the opportunities to fire at these targets. As enemy reserves come in and transports get de-meched by Tyranid AT, the biovore, being out of reach of most opponent's offense (potentially hiding) as well as being a much lower threat priority (compared to flyrants, mawlocs, dakkafexes, etc.), will have turn after turn of shooting at what is becoming a more and more target-rich environment for him. He won't hit as hard as the pyrovores, but it is his long-term sustainability which will net him more kills in the long run. It is also this long-term sustainability that makes him a more consistent contributor to the Tyranid offense. That is why IMO he deserves to be rated more highly than the pyrovore. Over time (and biovores will last longer than pyrovores in most cases), he will perform better and more consistently.

Here's another advantage of biovores over the pyrovore. Pyrovore comes in, does its thing and then your opponent moves his squishy units away from it and they are ok. With regards to the biovores, there is no safe haven for his squishy units. They move out in the open and they are in danger each and every turn. Thus, they are forced to hug terrain, which in effect, limits their movement. Just the threat of biovores around will mess with the opponent's Movement phase. That is something specifically that biovores can do that no other unit in the Tyranid codex can really do (just make sure you put objectives out in the open).

tag8833 wrote:


If you feel like Carnifexes are just too cheap, and would really like to throw away some points, then the Haruspex is the model for you.

That should really be all the Haruspex review says.

 Iechine wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

If you feel like Carnifexes are just too cheap, and would really like to throw away some points, then the Haruspex is the model for you.

That should really be all the Haruspex review says.

LOL!

I like this one better:

tag8833 wrote:

The Haruspex and Hive Guard are my goto models if I want to intentionally lose a game.

 jy2 wrote:

 Iechine wrote:

tag8833 wrote:

If you feel like Carnifexes are just too cheap, and would really like to throw away some points, then the Haruspex is the model for you.

That should really be all the Haruspex review says.

LOL!

I like this one better:

tag8833 wrote:

The Haruspex and Hive Guard are my goto models if I want to intentionally lose a game.

HA! I like the Haruspex one, but I feel that's a little harsh on Hive Guard. They're not terrible, just worse at Hull point removal than Flyrants. Which is pretty much every unit in the game besides DakkaFex and Flyrants...

tag8833 wrote:

Verviedi wrote:
The Haruspex is pretty decent at popping LRs and killing Riptides/NDKs. With Adrenal Glands, it'll be Str 8 on the charge, which will be instagibbing Paladins. In a pod it could be a nice DISTRACTION CARNIFEX replacement.
Unfortunately it lacks the initiative and WS required to be a truly good CQC monster, and it doesn't have enough wounds to get to CQC in the Age of Shooting. Finally, it's too slow, but a pod/Adr glands would mitigate this. I would rate it at a C- stock, and C with Adr Glands, definately not the F or D you guys are giving it. Thoughts? I will trust a more experienced Haruspex user to write up a true review.
Can you please explain why you rate it so poorly?

I've run the Haruspex 40 or so times. The Haruspex and Hive Guard are my goto models if I want to intentionally lose a game.

A Haruspex isn't really capable of killing a riptide without help, at least not unless the riptide fails a leadership and gets overrun. If the riptide nova charges its invul, but doesn't have FNP, it will only be taking 0.44 wounds a turn (.88 on the charge assuming A.G.). Compare that to the Hauspex who is taking .75 wounds a turn (1.0 if the riptide charges). A riptide is actually better in assault than a Haruspex. On top of that, a riptide can Kill a Haruspex in shooting without too much trouble.

A Nemesis Dreadknight is even worse. It strikes at a higher initiative, and comes with a psychic power to improve its invul by one, plus for 5 points it can get force which ends the Haruspex before it even gets a chance to swing. But lets assume that the Dreadknight owner was too cheap to give it force. Now, the Haruspex is doing 1.00 wounds, but the 4++ is saving 1/2 so only 0.50 go through, or 1.00 assuming A.G. on the charge. The NDK is doing 2.22 unsaved wounds back or 2.78 on the charge.

So no, the Haruspex is certainly not good at killing Riptides or Nemesis Dreadknights. It can instagib Paladins, but Paladins swing 1st, and have force weapons, so it would require poor play by the opponent for it to pull that trick off. Land Raiders don't fight back so it is capable there. Generally going to take 2 turns to kill one, but at least it isn't suicidal.

As far as using it as a Distraction carnifex. If you feel like Carnifexes are just too cheap, and would really like to throw away some points, then the Haruspex is the model for you.

Great review of the Haru. I have run him a few times as well, and he hasn't got it done for me yet. I ripped of his head, magnetized it, and made him into an Exocrine. I may still throw it in a pod sometime just to see what happens, but, yeah... he really needs more attacks. Like, double the number of attacks. Then maybe we could talk.

 jifel wrote:
HA! I like the Haruspex one, but I feel that's a little harsh on Hive Guard. They're not terrible, just worse at Hull point removal than Flyrants. Which is pretty much every unit in the game besides DakkaFex and Flyrants...

Also worse against infantry of any sort than a myriad of Tyranid units.

But I would say that Hive Guard are a solid C, compared to a Haruspex's D. I use Hive Guard to tank because they are a big points investment that yields a very, very low firepower, and usually what opponent's can't deal with coming off of tyranids is shrouding and Dakka, so 2 groups of 3 Hive Guard and a Haruspex have filled my elite slots, and left me with very little to show for it. Sometimes I throw in some Dimacharons, because they are a similar unit that provides no dakka, and players that need me to tank a game most tend to be retro gunline players that back up in a corner and have no problem killing a Dimachaeron.

tag8833 wrote:

Verviedi wrote:
The Haruspex is pretty decent at popping LRs and killing Riptides/NDKs. With Adrenal Glands, it'll be Str 8 on the charge, which will be instagibbing Paladins. In a pod it could be a nice DISTRACTION CARNIFEX replacement.
Unfortunately it lacks the initiative and WS required to be a truly good CQC monster, and it doesn't have enough wounds to get to CQC in the Age of Shooting. Finally, it's too slow, but a pod/Adr glands would mitigate this. I would rate it at a C- stock, and C with Adr Glands, definately not the F or D you guys are giving it. Thoughts? I will trust a more experienced Haruspex user to write up a true review.
Can you please explain why you rate it so poorly?

I've run the Haruspex 40 or so times. The Haruspex and Hive Guard are my goto models if I want to intentionally lose a game.

A Haruspex isn't really capable of killing a riptide without help, at least not unless the riptide fails a leadership and gets overrun. If the riptide nova charges its invul, but doesn't have FNP, it will only be taking 0.44 wounds a turn (.88 on the charge assuming A.G.). Compare that to the Hauspex who is taking .75 wounds a turn (1.0 if the riptide charges). A riptide is actually better in assault than a Haruspex. On top of that, a riptide can Kill a Haruspex in shooting without too much trouble.

A Nemesis Dreadknight is even worse. It strikes at a higher initiative, and comes with a psychic power to improve its invul by one, plus for 5 points it can get force which ends the Haruspex before it even gets a chance to swing. But lets assume that the Dreadknight owner was too cheap to give it force. Now, the Haruspex is doing 1.00 wounds, but the 4++ is saving 1/2 so only 0.50 go through, or 1.00 assuming A.G. on the charge. The NDK is doing 2.22 unsaved wounds back or 2.78 on the charge.

So no, the Haruspex is certainly not good at killing Riptides or Nemesis Dreadknights. It can instagib Paladins, but Paladins swing 1st, and have force weapons, so it would require poor play by the opponent for it to pull that trick off. Land Raiders don't fight back so it is capable there. Generally going to take 2 turns to kill one, but at least it isn't suicidal.

As far as using it as a Distraction carnifex. If you feel like Carnifexes are just too cheap, and would really like to throw away some points, then the Haruspex is the model for you.

Ok. Thanks. Thankfully mine is magnetized

 jy2 wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
I think that the grades simple need to devolve into letters...no more + or -

I think it's ok to include the +/- system. This helps to further separate the different units. For example, most people will probably agree that flyrants and carnifexes are excellent units. Both units are worthy of an 'A' rating. However, this grading can be misleading to newer players, who look at the grades between the 2 units and think that both are equal because both share the same grades. The +/- helps to differentiate these units even further. Ok, so it's better to take flyrants/carnifexes over the dimachaeron. However, should I take more tyrants or more fexes? The reader then sees that the tyrant is an 'A+' while the carnifex is an 'A'. This helps to provide more info to the reader that, while both units are very good, the flyrant is normally regarded more highly in a Tyranid army. Basically, in the case of units with the same grading level, the +/- gives the reader more info on which units is considered to be better.



@Frozocrone

Thanks! I have updated the 2 units.

luke1705 wrote:

I also agree that there needs to be more consistency with the grading....maybe we could set up a community poll for the grades. It wouldn't be hard to simply set up a grading poll, and then all of us could collectively grade each unit after the reviews are finished (and we've read them of course ) the results could then be averaged and put into the entry

While grading by polling is an excellent idea, realistically, it isn't very practical. There is just too many units and different configurations. You also need to give the viewers some time to vote (say, on average, 3-7 days for each unit).

Thus, there are 2 ways to do it. Put the poll here, leave it on for, say 3-5 days, and then put up the next poll. With this method, it may take up to a year just to collect all the samples!

The other way to do it is to open up multiple polls, all at once. This would require perhaps 100+ polling threads to be open. Problem is, besides the management of all of these polls, is this. The more popular units will get voted on. However, the less popular units will barely get any votes, if at all, and will fade away into oblivion in just a couple of days. Moreover, I don't know how significant the sample sizes for those less popular units will be.

For me, it's mainly the time to manage all these polls. Frankly, I just won't have the time to do so. Now if someone is ambitious enough to take on this project, then by all means, go for it. I'd be happy to use the results on the polls if the community here is fine with it.

I'm also a fan of the plus minus system, though I think we've put that to bed, more or less.

What I was suggesting was actually much less contrived than a poll for each unit. You could have a single thread where any user could post their (admittedly subjective) grade of each unit. For example, my post might look something like this:

HQ Options:

Flyrant: A +
Walkrant: C +
Deathleaper: B -
Prime: C
Tervigon: B
Swarmlord: (Not enough experience to grade)

And so on throughout the FOC chart. You could even have people cut and paste the template for each unit to be considered. That way, each person could spend ~ 10 min to grade each model in the entire codex, and one person could consolidate and average the data. The only issue with an approach like this is that it's somewhat of a living document and would require a touch of maintenance to keep this and the overall grades up to date, and to be honest I don't think that's possible with coding. It would probably have to be a once every couple weeks brute force update. I'd be happy to crunch the numbers though. It's probably more work than it's worth, but it also would give more weight to the grades, as they are arguably less subjective.

 Wilson wrote:

Fragile wrote:
The problem is that all the ratings are entirely subjective of the person who wrote the list. Biovores in my experience have typically been near the top of the MVP choices each battle. They offer so much to the Nid army. Until recently Lictors would have been thrown into that trash department until someone took the time to actually use them and won with them. Whether that is a function of the Lictor, that Player, or that Players meta is unknown. But now everyone is jumping on the Lictor bandwagon.

Lictors on their own are turd. they only work with Mawlocs and in Maelstrom missions. Deathleapers Character and Lictors in general are one of the many factors that got me playing Nids though.
Such an awesome design. I wish they where better!

This is true. But any unit can be improved with the correct settings. Which again makes the rating system hard.

And yes, Lictors are my favorite model.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I think the problem with rating CQC tyranids is the dimachaeron. Because that model does that particular task so impressively well, none of the other melee tyranids from the codex really stand out in comparison.

Yeah I think it might be "fair" if things got rated with FW as a separate case. Heck I may be old fashioned, but I still really like Screamer-killers, and Adrenal boosted Vanilla-fexen (An "expresso-fex" ) Inside a wrecker node it can be a real "thing" without breaking the bank points wise.

Hey all, Just to drop my tuppence worth in.
I run termagant's with devourer's galore and i never leave home without my hive guard. I know it's only my opinion but these 2 units are for me almost 100% auto include. 2x2 HG and 4x15 devilgaunt's with 5 spike rifles to match the range, backed up with 2x3 strangler warriors.
I call it the 'Nid platoon. It has never failed me yet. Even since before 7th hit. Now backed up with a LAN of course.

I'm pretty sure the consensus on warrior's and HG is about right and I'm just quite lucky with them. Except for my last battle, of course.

But! if you're willing to put the point's in to the termagant's with devourer's? I honestly don't think there is a better unit for sheer anti-infantry firepower in this game.
As some one said before 2x point's for 3x fire-power. For me devil-gaunt's are a solid A.

Also keep up the good work every one. I'm now sure this thread alone has stopped me from ditch'n my 'Nids.

Cheer's

@shuppet how do 3 Pyrovores nuke a Malanthrope? It's T5 4 wounds with a 3+

I just meant being able put the hurt on it and anything using the cover, that may have been an exaggeration, i shouldnt rush post

Going to run this at the weekend for a Caledonian Practise Tournament event:

Shield of Baal Detachment:

HQ
Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs
Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs
Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs

Troops
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore


Elite
Venomthrope

Heavy
Mawloc

Skyblight Formation:

Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs

10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles

Hive Crone
Harpy TL Venom Cannon
Harpy TL Venom Cannon

1850

Should be a laugh, Ill try to get some pictures/reports done.

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Going to run this at the weekend for a Caledonian Practise Tournament event:

Shield of Baal Detachment:

Spoiler:

HQ
Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs
Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs
Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs

Troops
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore


Elite
Venomthrope

Heavy
Mawloc

Skyblight Formation:

Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs

10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles

Hive Crone
Harpy TL Venom Cannon
Harpy TL Venom Cannon

1850

Should be a laugh, Ill try to get some pictures/reports done.

It's a very strong list and a lot of people will have problems against it.

I take it no Forgeworld (no Malanthrope)?

One thing that concerns is the lack of ground forces. Other than the 3 units of gargoyles, there is nothing else to score on Maelstrom-type objectives (if the tourney does run Maelstrom secondaries) unless you risk one of your flyers by landing him.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

kryczek wrote:
Hey all, Just to drop my tuppence worth in.
I run termagant's with devourer's galore and i never leave home without my hive guard. I know it's only my opinion but these 2 units are for me almost 100% auto include. 2x2 HG and 4x15 devilgaunt's with 5 spike rifles to match the range, backed up with 2x3 strangler warriors.
I call it the 'Nid platoon. It has never failed me yet. Even since before 7th hit. Now backed up with a LAN of course.

I'm pretty sure the consensus on warrior's and HG is about right and I'm just quite lucky with them. Except for my last battle, of course.

But! if you're willing to put the point's in to the termagant's with devourer's? I honestly don't think there is a better unit for sheer anti-infantry firepower in this game.
As some one said before 2x point's for 3x fire-power. For me devil-gaunt's are a solid A.

Also keep up the good work every one. I'm now sure this thread alone has stopped me from ditch'n my 'Nids.

Cheer's

You have a good troop-presence in an army that, unfortunately, is somewhat lackluster in its troop slots. Now, that doesn't mean it can't work. It can. The only thing is that you won't be running at peak efficiency because bugs are more optimized with their offense in the other FOC-slots. Hive guards, while still decent in AT, just isn't as good anymore and compared to some of the other units in the dex.

But the main thing is this. If it works for you in your meta, then bravo. Keep at it. For me, I have a harder time seeing it being able to do well in a competitive, tournament setting. Then again, bugs can be full of surprises. Just a couple of weeks back, who'd have thought that someone could win a tournament with a list consisting of Deathleaper, lictors, genestealers and spore mines?

 jy2 wrote:

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Going to run this at the weekend for a Caledonian Practise Tournament event:

Shield of Baal Detachment:

Spoiler:

HQ
Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs
Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs
Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs

Troops
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore


Elite
Venomthrope

Heavy
Mawloc

Skyblight Formation:

Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs

10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles

Hive Crone
Harpy TL Venom Cannon
Harpy TL Venom Cannon

1850

Should be a laugh, Ill try to get some pictures/reports done.

It's a very strong list and a lot of people will have problems against it.

I take it no Forgeworld (no Malanthrope)?

One thing that concerns is the lack of ground forces. Other than the 3 units of gargoyles, there is nothing else to score on Maelstrom-type objectives (if the tourney does run Maelstrom secondaries) unless you risk one of your flyers by landing him.

Thanks JY, I agree, Secondaries could be an issue and Maelstrom will be secondaries.
I really need to read the rules pack...that would help
I did have some rippers in there and no Mawloc. I might go back to that after reading the rules pack properly.
My current thinking (and this might be wrong) that if I concentrate on the primary mission and win that I should be good.
I think Caledonian is a very similar style to LVO...? Not 100% sure on that but I get the impression US and UK guys are trying to build a standard model for Competitive 40k events.

luke1705 wrote:

I'm also a fan of the plus minus system, though I think we've put that to bed, more or less.

What I was suggesting was actually much less contrived than a poll for each unit. You could have a single thread where any user could post their (admittedly subjective) grade of each unit. For example, my post might look something like this:

HQ Options:

Flyrant: A +
Walkrant: C +
Deathleaper: B -
Prime: C
Tervigon: B
Swarmlord: (Not enough experience to grade)

And so on throughout the FOC chart. You could even have people cut and paste the template for each unit to be considered. That way, each person could spend ~ 10 min to grade each model in the entire codex, and one person could consolidate and average the data. The only issue with an approach like this is that it's somewhat of a living document and would require a touch of maintenance to keep this and the overall grades up to date, and to be honest I don't think that's possible with coding. It would probably have to be a once every couple weeks brute force update. I'd be happy to crunch the numbers though. It's probably more work than it's worth, but it also would give more weight to the grades, as they are arguably less subjective.

Well, if enough people start posting their grading here (or in a separate thread), then I'd be happy to use the collected/tabulated data here in the main tactica. And if someone takes the time to organize/manage this project, then I'd be happy to use their data. Probably better to organize it per FOC slot.

Here would be my HQ grades:


Shooty Flyrant: A+
CC Flyrant: C
Shooty Walkrant: B
CC Walkrant: D
Deathleaper: D
Old One Eye: D
Prime: C
Tervigon: B
Swarmlord: B
Tyrant Guard: B-/C+ (crushing claws/vanilla)

 L0rdF1end wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Going to run this at the weekend for a Caledonian Practise Tournament event:

Shield of Baal Detachment:

Spoiler:

HQ
Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs
Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs
Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs

Troops
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore


Elite
Venomthrope

Heavy
Mawloc

Skyblight Formation:

Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs

10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles

Hive Crone
Harpy TL Venom Cannon
Harpy TL Venom Cannon

1850

Should be a laugh, Ill try to get some pictures/reports done.

It's a very strong list and a lot of people will have problems against it.

I take it no Forgeworld (no Malanthrope)?

One thing that concerns is the lack of ground forces. Other than the 3 units of gargoyles, there is nothing else to score on Maelstrom-type objectives (if the tourney does run Maelstrom secondaries) unless you risk one of your flyers by landing him.

Thanks JY, I agree, Secondaries could be an issue and Maelstrom will be secondaries.
I really need to read the rules pack...that would help
I did have some rippers in there and no Mawloc. I might go back to that after reading the rules pack properly.
My current thinking (and this might be wrong) that if I concentrate on the primary mission and win that I should be good.
I think Caledonian is a very similar style to LVO...? Not 100% sure on that but I get the impression US and UK guys are trying to build a standard model for Competitive 40k events.

Cally has now adopted the UKGT mission pack.

All though reading through the rules pack now, they seemed to have missed out how each game is scored, to work out the winner...

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Going to run this at the weekend for a Caledonian Practise Tournament event:

Shield of Baal Detachment:

HQ
Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs
Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs
Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs

Troops
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore


Elite
Venomthrope

Heavy
Mawloc

Skyblight Formation:

Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs

10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles

Hive Crone
Harpy TL Venom Cannon
Harpy TL Venom Cannon

1850

Should be a laugh, Ill try to get some pictures/reports done.

I thought my list was strong with 4 FMC but 7? Eeesh.

Although, harpies do suck and are a huge tax.

Interested to see how your practice matches go.



Also just to note, finally ordered my Harradin and it's safe to say that I am incredibly stoked to run triple Flyrant/ Harradin combo later this month.

Why don't other people take harry? He's an absolute monster!

I would disagree a little that Harpies suck.
They are an annoyance with their Spore Bombs.
Also threatening to double out a Farseer on a Bike with Venom Cannons is nice.
I think it's more about getting the most out of the unit, increasing its threat value, just another thing on the board for the opponent to worry about.
And they can take objectives late game.

 Wilson wrote:

 L0rdF1end wrote:
Going to run this at the weekend for a Caledonian Practise Tournament event:

Shield of Baal Detachment:

HQ
Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs
Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs
Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs

Troops
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore


Elite
Venomthrope

Heavy
Mawloc

Skyblight Formation:

Flyrant Dual Devs, Electroshock Grubs

10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles
10 Gargoyles

Hive Crone
Harpy TL Venom Cannon
Harpy TL Venom Cannon

1850

Should be a laugh, Ill try to get some pictures/reports done.

I thought my list was strong with 4 FMC but 7? Eeesh.

Although, harpies do suck and are a huge tax.

Interested to see how your practice matches go.



Also just to note, finally ordered my Harradin and it's safe to say that I am incredibly stoked to run triple Flyrant/ Harradin combo later this month.

Why don't other people take harry? He's an absolute monster!

I was looking at running a similar list, but I can't warrant the Harpy tax, so I'm thinking of more a second turn drop list. I'd love to get a Harridan and use it, but much like my Barbed Heirodule, it is condemned to being comped out of most events in the UK as they all insist on using percentage caps, and points caps, rather than just banning the LoW that are an issue.

What is the point you guys think Flyrants began detract from an army at 1500 points? I currently run 2, but I'm planning on buying 2 more. My meta is full of experienced Nid players, and they all say 4 Flyrants at 1500 points tie up too many points at 1500 to make the list effective. Is this true?

Verviedi wrote:
What is the point you guys think Flyrants began detract from an army at 1500 points? I currently run 2, but I'm planning on buying 2 more. My meta is full of experienced Nid players, and they all say 4 Flyrants at 1500 points tie up too many points at 1500 to make the list effective. Is this true?

I'm not sure how you would fit 4 into 1500 unless you go double CAD?
I can just about squeeze 4 in taking the new detachment and skyblight at 1650.

Edit: I guess there's the Gliding Flyrant/Gargoyle formation option you could use...

Verviedi wrote:
What is the point you guys think Flyrants began detract from an army at 1500 points? I currently run 2, but I'm planning on buying 2 more. My meta is full of experienced Nid players, and they all say 4 Flyrants at 1500 points tie up too many points at 1500 to make the list effective. Is this true?

My normal rule-of-thumb is that any "deathstar" army/unit should take no more than 50% of your army, give or take. Around 50%, you can still build a TAC deathstar list. However, if you go more than 50%, it then becomes an unbalanced "deathstar" build.

In this case, the flyrants act as your "deathstars". And at 1500, I wouldn't recommend taking more than 3 (720-pts, or about 48% of the army) if you still want to have a balanced Tyranid list. Note - 3 flyrants at 1500-pts will seem "dirty" to most casual players, so I don't recommend you running trip-flyrants unless in a tournament or against other competitive players.

 L0rdF1end wrote:

Verviedi wrote:
What is the point you guys think Flyrants began detract from an army at 1500 points? I currently run 2, but I'm planning on buying 2 more. My meta is full of experienced Nid players, and they all say 4 Flyrants at 1500 points tie up too many points at 1500 to make the list effective. Is this true?

I'm not sure how you would fit 4 into 1500 unless you go double CAD?
I can just about squeeze 4 in taking the new detachment and skyblight at 1650.

Edit: I guess there's the Gliding Flyrant/Gargoyle formation option you could use...

While not RAW, most of the US tournaments allow self-allying.

Would anyone considering taking a CAD over a Hive Fleet Detachment if only to get Aegis/Bastion w/ Comms Relay?

I'm considering running a list with 2 Flyrants, two min unit Neurothropes in a Pod and two Dakkafex and thinking the Comms Relay would be much more useful than re-roll IB