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 syypher wrote:
Random modeling question for Nids... if I'm taking a Dakkafex with both Scything sets replaced with TL Devourers w/ BLW... and I have 2x arms converted to be a TL Devourer each... what do I do with the other 2 arm slots on my Carnifex? o_o Considering all the Tournaments are WYSIWYG.

If I put more of those arms (The FW ones) in those slots then that would mean I have 4x TL Devourers w/ BLW.

Since a "set" of scything claws is being replaced with 1 TL Devourer w/ BLW it only takes up one of the 4 arm slots the Carnifex has.

What to do? I'm confused..

Easiest solution is probably just take the old monstrous creature rending claws from the old bio-weapons sprue that came with the previous Warriors box and pop them in the unused sockets as clawed hands. Might be a bit small, but they should fit ok and serve to show they are vestigial.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

 syypher wrote:
Random modeling question for Nids... if I'm taking a Dakkafex with both Scything sets replaced with TL Devourers w/ BLW... and I have 2x arms converted to be a TL Devourer each... what do I do with the other 2 arm slots on my Carnifex? o_o Considering all the Tournaments are WYSIWYG.

If I put more of those arms (The FW ones) in those slots then that would mean I have 4x TL Devourers w/ BLW.

Since a "set" of scything claws is being replaced with 1 TL Devourer w/ BLW it only takes up one of the 4 arm slots the Carnifex has.

What to do? I'm confused..

Easiest solution is probably just take the old monstrous creature rending claws from the old bio-weapons sprue that came with the previous Warriors box and pop them in the unused sockets as clawed hands. Might be a bit small, but they should fit ok and serve to show they are vestigial.

Is that what most people do? To my knowledge Dakkafexes are pretty popular. That sounds funny lol like "grab my strong hanndddd"

 syypher wrote:

 Strat_N8 wrote:

 syypher wrote:
Random modeling question for Nids... if I'm taking a Dakkafex with both Scything sets replaced with TL Devourers w/ BLW... and I have 2x arms converted to be a TL Devourer each... what do I do with the other 2 arm slots on my Carnifex? o_o Considering all the Tournaments are WYSIWYG.

If I put more of those arms (The FW ones) in those slots then that would mean I have 4x TL Devourers w/ BLW.

Since a "set" of scything claws is being replaced with 1 TL Devourer w/ BLW it only takes up one of the 4 arm slots the Carnifex has.

What to do? I'm confused..

Easiest solution is probably just take the old monstrous creature rending claws from the old bio-weapons sprue that came with the previous Warriors box and pop them in the unused sockets as clawed hands. Might be a bit small, but they should fit ok and serve to show they are vestigial.

Is that what most people do? To my knowledge Dakkafexes are pretty popular. That sounds funny lol like "grab my strong hanndddd"

I've got FW Devs and a pair of Scything Talons on my Dakkafexes and no-one has had an issue. So long as you let your opponent know the weapons it has/have an army list, I'm sure most people won't mind how you've modeled it.

The Carnifex box comes with a single set of Devourer arms(the idea being you buy two kits to field one dakkafex). The FW arms are basically for Flyrants modeled with "legs".

 Sinful Hero wrote:
The Carnifex box comes with a single set of Devourer arms(the idea being you buy two kits to field one dakkafex). The FW arms are basically for Flyrants modeled with "legs".

Oh so using the arms for 2x SETS of Devourer arms is usually seen as okay for being the upgrade to "TL Brainleech Devourers" for the Dakkafexes?

Like this?

 syypher wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
The Carnifex box comes with a single set of Devourer arms(the idea being you buy two kits to field one dakkafex). The FW arms are basically for Flyrants modeled with "legs".

Oh so using the arms for 2x SETS of Devourer arms is usually seen as okay for being the upgrade to "TL Brainleech Devourers" for the Dakkafexes?

Like this?

There should be a specific set of arms on the Monstrous Creature arms sprue. No converting/chopping necessary.

But honestly as long as your opponents clearly know what they have equipped it shouldn't matter. Even a single set of scything talons does nothing with the current ruleset, so you could use the Forgeworld arms as well if you wanted.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Spoiler:

 syypher wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
The Carnifex box comes with a single set of Devourer arms(the idea being you buy two kits to field one dakkafex). The FW arms are basically for Flyrants modeled with "legs".

Oh so using the arms for 2x SETS of Devourer arms is usually seen as okay for being the upgrade to "TL Brainleech Devourers" for the Dakkafexes?

Like this?

There should be a specific set of arms on the Monstrous Creature arms sprue. No converting/chopping necessary.

But honestly as long as your opponents clearly know what they have equipped it shouldn't matter. Even a single set of scything talons does nothing with the current ruleset, so you could use the Forgeworld arms as well if you wanted.

Thank you so much. Appreciate everyones help.

Any advice on what to use for Mucolids? They are super expensive if I want to buy a Tyrannocyte kit just for that and I'm no good with green stuff... Sucks that the Tyrannocyte uses the tentacles for the Mucolid too... is there an easy alternative model or something from another gaming line someone might know of? Or an easy conversion from one of our current models? Was thinking maybe something with a Venomthrope...

 syypher wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Spoiler:

 syypher wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
The Carnifex box comes with a single set of Devourer arms(the idea being you buy two kits to field one dakkafex). The FW arms are basically for Flyrants modeled with "legs".

Oh so using the arms for 2x SETS of Devourer arms is usually seen as okay for being the upgrade to "TL Brainleech Devourers" for the Dakkafexes?

Like this?

There should be a specific set of arms on the Monstrous Creature arms sprue. No converting/chopping necessary.

But honestly as long as your opponents clearly know what they have equipped it shouldn't matter. Even a single set of scything talons does nothing with the current ruleset, so you could use the Forgeworld arms as well if you wanted.

Thank you so much. Appreciate everyones help.

Any advice on what to use for Mucolids? They are super expensive if I want to buy a Tyrannocyte kit just for that and I'm no good with green stuff... Sucks that the Tyrannocyte uses the tentacles for the Mucolid too... is there an easy alternative model or something from another gaming line someone might know of? Or an easy conversion from one of our current models? Was thinking maybe something with a Venomthrope...

If you're buying a Venomthrope/Zoanthrope set and build them as Zoanthropes you will have enough tentacles left over to do three decent looking Mucolids. They need to be pinned, but they fit on well enough.

Xyptc wrote:

 syypher wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Spoiler:

 syypher wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
The Carnifex box comes with a single set of Devourer arms(the idea being you buy two kits to field one dakkafex). The FW arms are basically for Flyrants modeled with "legs".

Oh so using the arms for 2x SETS of Devourer arms is usually seen as okay for being the upgrade to "TL Brainleech Devourers" for the Dakkafexes?

Like this?

There should be a specific set of arms on the Monstrous Creature arms sprue. No converting/chopping necessary.

But honestly as long as your opponents clearly know what they have equipped it shouldn't matter. Even a single set of scything talons does nothing with the current ruleset, so you could use the Forgeworld arms as well if you wanted.

Thank you so much. Appreciate everyones help.

Any advice on what to use for Mucolids? They are super expensive if I want to buy a Tyrannocyte kit just for that and I'm no good with green stuff... Sucks that the Tyrannocyte uses the tentacles for the Mucolid too... is there an easy alternative model or something from another gaming line someone might know of? Or an easy conversion from one of our current models? Was thinking maybe something with a Venomthrope...

If you're buying a Venomthrope/Zoanthrope set and build them as Zoanthropes you will have enough tentacles left over to do three decent looking Mucolids. They need to be pinned, but they fit on well enough.

Forge world meitoic spores are the cheapest way to get several if you cant make your own. I refuse to buy 4 more tyrannocytes just so i can have 6 mucolids.

If you want to build a Mucolid and Tyrannocyte, it's fairly easy to green stuff some tentacles, I followed this and they turned out pretty good: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/623573.page#7366252. If I needed lots more Meiotic Spores would be the way to go though.

I thought the consensus with TL-Devs on Carnifexes was just to have all four arms as Devourers, though obviously Scything Talons and 2xTL-Devs has no play difference so I don't think anyone would mind. The only issue with 4x Devs is that the kit only comes with 2 - but if you're like me and enjoy melee fexes as a less competitive thing, then you're fine, just buy them in twos .

The FW Devourers and a pair of Scything talons make it look cool. 4 Little pea shooter guns make it look silly.

Rule of cool.

 Iechine wrote:
The FW Devourers and a pair of Scything talons make it look cool. 4 Little pea shooter guns make it look silly.

Rule of cool.

That's why I just use the Fleshborer hives. Somehow they look so much cooler on my hive tyrant than on my Dakkafex....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I had an interesting game on Friday. Was planning on trying out the new Crons, but hadn't finished modeling the stuff I needed so I ran Nids instead. I decided to take a break and try something different from my more competitive Nids lists, so I went with:

I just want to warn you people who are fluffy bunnies not to proceed beyond this point. It will only make you angry




The game was a lot of fun. Played against a friend who is trying out different variants of Daemons. This time he had Be'Lakor and Fateweaver, plus a full dog-star, but with no heralds. He had 2 more Tzeetnch Princes and min Nurgling squads.

Well, I forgot to take prescience for the Paladins (whoops) but got Gate and Sanctuary, plus of course had banishment naturally. And let me tell you, wow. It is just bad to be Daemons when you are against Grey Knights. Paladin star >> Dog Star. I would venture to say that it could take out Screamerstar as well. Especially since you can get off force. Even if they're invisible you still hit on a re-rollable 5+, and their AP 2 attacks are limited, and you'll still get a re-rollable 5+ against those, even without sanctuary.

Flyrants did what Flyrants do (annihilating troops choices) and I took the game rather easily. It was also my friend's first time trying out that list, so he made a couple mistakes that I was able to capitalize on. Namely, he wanted to play the scouring but didn't summon at all. So that was pretty much that

 jy2 wrote:
How many players actually take that many hormagants - and with TS - in their TAC lists? Personally, I haven't seen very many.

It really doesn't matter at all how many players DO take something when somebody is proposing a different way to do things. Logic should be the basis of an argument against it, not "majority rules". On top of that, what "everybody does" is a restrictive mentality in any situation, because as it's been proven many many times over now, the majority is quite often wrong. Need I use Lictors as an example? The fact is that a lot of people haven't actually put much thought into a lot of what they will happily regurgitate, choosing to take the most commonly stated opinion that they've read as though it was undeniable gospel and will argue it to the death whether right or wrong. Just because people aren't taking a certain unit yet in a constantly evolving meta, doesn't mean that this should be used as argument against it, that's just narrow minded.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

Hormagants are decent. However, a few issues exist:

1. How many players actually take that many hormagants - and with TS - in their TAC lists? Personally, I haven't seen very many.

2. Wraiths are beasts now, which means they are super-fast. They should be able to get the charge off against hormagants unless you use another unit to screen out those hormagants.

3. Whip coils makes them I5. Wraithflight means they treat all terrain as Open Ground. Thus, no Initiative penalty on the charge, even against a unit in terrain.

1. Not many at the moment, but then again there hasn't really been a pressing need for them up until this point as most of the major tournament threats have been mechanized foes rather than high toughness ones. There is also the matter of their being a hoard unit, which is fairly uncommon in competitive lists anyway due to the time constraints.

2./3. Neither is really a problem. Hormagaunts are I5 themselves so at best the Whip Coils allow Wraiths to swing at the same time. They also don't really need to get the charge, as the goal is to tarpit the Wraiths anyway while thinning them out.

 jy2 wrote:

30 hormagants may be able to hold the wraiths in for a 3-4 assault phases, but don't expect them to win out.

As a bit of math, if at least half the brood can attack they should inflict ~5 unsaved wounds before reanimation protocols (~3 with reanimation protocols). Assuming the wraiths charged and had not taken losses on the way in, their returning blows should in turn only do ~10 wounds (13 with whip coils to get their swings in). The Hormagaunts then presumably keep them locked down thanks to the availability of fearless and more or less repeat for another round or two until depleted or the Wraiths are destroyed. (in the unlikely event that the entire brood can attack, they should do about 10 unsaved wounds before reanimation protocols)

This also doesn't take into account additional debilitating effects such as Paroxysm or Blinding Venom which could swing the battle more in favor of the gaunts.

Consider this.

A Necron army with wraiths will either be:

1) Normal CAD with probably at least 2 units of wraiths or

2) Decurions with 4+ RP wraiths backed by 20 warriors, 2 ghost arks and 3-7 tomb blades with cover-ignoring blast shots.

In the case of #1, whether hormagants get the charge against the wraiths or wraiths get the charge against the hormies, the 2nd unit of wraiths will counter-charge the following turn. It won't end well for the hormies.

In the case of #2, warriors, ghost arks and tomb blades - who are not efficient at shooting flyrants - will help to thin out the hormies. In this case, it wouldn't be a unit of 30 hormies against the wraiths. It'll probably be like 15 only after some Necron shooting.

And yeah, flyrants can help out against the wraiths as well. If 3 flyrants target the wraiths, then in the case of #1, 36 shots, 32 hits, 21 wounds 7 unsaved wounds = 3 dead wraiths. In the case of #2, 32 hits, 21 wounds, 3.5 unsaved wounds = 3 dead wraiths in 2 turns.

Of course this does not count psychic buffs like Catalyst on the hormagants or Paroxysm. Then again, I am not counting a tanking character for the wraiths/wraithstar, Orikan for re-rolling saves of '1' or Prefered Enemy on the wraiths either.

Curious why you would take skytyrant over skyblight? Skyblight with obsec possible resurrecting gargs just seems like the better choice through and through.

Can anyone enlighten me? Skyblight just seems like the best competitive way to build Nids if your not going pentyrant. What do you guys think?

 syypher wrote:
Curious why you would take skytyrant over skyblight? Skyblight with obsec possible resurrecting gargs just seems like the better choice through and through.

Can anyone enlighten me? Skyblight just seems like the best competitive way to build Nids if your not going pentyrant. What do you guys think?

The harpies and crones are not what they used to be. They're good, but competitively they will put you at a marginal disadvantage. Back when vector strikes used to be d3+1 even against ground targets, it was dope. But now you only get 1, so their contributions are much more marginal. Sure they have their perks, but what is a harpy going to do against centstar? Screamerstar? White Scar bikes? Even just a 5 man tac squad from a drop pod? The crone is nice but the twin linked is only against air targets.

Competitive list-building is about having a list with few or no weak links. Skyblight does not exemplify that currently. I love it, don't get me wrong. But I wouldn't take it to a tournament at this point. With leviathan, you can get the Flyrants that you used to have to field Skyblight for, for literally no tax at all. And those tax units don't give up VP or KP.

 syypher wrote:
Curious why you would take skytyrant over skyblight? Skyblight with obsec possible resurrecting gargs just seems like the better choice through and through.

Can anyone enlighten me? Skyblight just seems like the best competitive way to build Nids if your not going pentyrant. What do you guys think?

IMO Skyblight requires you to commit to it. Base it's around ~800? With the CAD/Levithan detachment for more Flyrants you're already looking at 1200< points.

Skytyrant takes up less points, so you could still go Leviathan and still have room for what you want to bring (such as Pods and swarming).

SkyTyrant is also basically a cheap way to get another tyrant for people limited by a tournament to what they can take. Some places don't allow things such as Leviathan + Normal CAD.

Thanks for the insight guys! That makes sense

As far as void shield vs bastion+comms. Any particular preference? I know jy2 uses the void shields for his 5 Flyrant list. Also great protection vs gravs. But I see tons of lists with bastions as the usual fortification taken.

 syypher wrote:
Thanks for the insight guys! That makes sense

As far as void shield vs bastion+comms. Any particular preference? I know jy2 uses the void shields for his 5 Flyrant list. Also great protection vs gravs. But I see tons of lists with bastions as the usual fortification taken.

lol half the time the reason you see bastions over VSGs is because of how few people actually OWN a VSG. There are pros and cons to both. Due to the FAQ regarding grav protection, a number of people like to go for the void shields. Personally, I prefer the bastion because the VSG can be used against me, meaning that enemy units can stand inside the shield (or just a single model from a unit, still affording protection to the entire unit) and I have to down my own shield(s) to kill them. The bastion also offers greater single-target protection for the lynchpin Malanthrope. The protection afforded by the VSG is effectively that your flyrants have to take less saves. A 2+ save can still be failed, especially if the enemy has some ignores cover as part of their alpha. Then of course you can use that same Malanthrope to give the Flyrants the same cover with a VSG as you would with a bastion, though it doesn't function as BLOS.

In short, they are both strong choices and the benefits of one over the other are somewhat situational.

Depends on how cheap/many Flyrants you have. You could probably hide 2-3 Flyrants behind a Bastion, 5 is a bit of a stretch.

Bastion is cheaper so you can fit more in your army. The biggest bonus the Bastion has it that it also gets access to the Comms Relay which is excellent to have if you have a lot of reserves.

Won a local RTT tonight. In the Finals I played Ad Lance + 2 Storm Ravers and a Storm Talon. Everything went against me in the early game. It was the relic (BAO version) Turn 1 I perils on Warp Lance, and Grounded myself right next to a Knight, and it killed me when I rolled 3 consecutive 1's and failed to take off its last hull point. At one point he made 4 of 9 6+ Saves, and at another he went 8 for 9 4+ Jink saves, and I think he only ever failed 2 Invuls on knights all game. But thanks to the game going on to turn 7, I managed to whittle him down to a single librarian with 1 wound, and deny him the Relic. It wasn't Max points, but it was a win.

Also faced an interesting Dark eldar list with 4 of the Dark Eldar Fliers that should have been more trouble for me than it was, and a poor guy running IG mech who wasn't prepared for the Power of the Barbed Heirodule.

ETA: For me the biggest fear I have with AD Lance is Tau allies. With a skyfire Burstide and 2 Skyrays they can easily Kill my 3 Flyrants. I thought the Marine Fliers would be more troubled, but after a little dogfighting they went down. Is there any other ally for AD Lance we need to seriously fear if running 3 Flyrants and a Barbed Heirodule?

tag8833 wrote:
Won a local RTT tonight. In the Finals I played Ad Lance + 2 Storm Ravers and a Storm Talon. Everything went against me in the early game. It was the relic (BAO version) Turn 1 I perils on Warp Lance, and Grounded myself right next to a Knight, and it killed me when I rolled 3 consecutive 1's and failed to take off its last hull point. At one point he made 4 of 9 6+ Saves, and at another he went 8 for 9 4+ Jink saves, and I think he only ever failed 2 Invuls on knights all game. But thanks to the game going on to turn 7, I managed to whittle him down to a single librarian with 1 wound, and deny him the Relic. It wasn't Max points, but it was a win.

Also faced an interesting Dark eldar list with 4 of the Dark Eldar Fliers that should have been more trouble for me than it was, and a poor guy running IG mech who wasn't prepared for the Power of the Barbed Heirodule.

ETA: For me the biggest fear I have with AD Lance is Tau allies. With a skyfire Burstide and 2 Skyrays they can easily Kill my 3 Flyrants. I thought the Marine Fliers would be more troubled, but after a little dogfighting they went down. Is there any other ally for AD Lance we need to seriously fear if running 3 Flyrants and a Barbed Heirodule?

Besides Tau, I think three Flyrants would be a potential issue as an Ad Lance ally. The Hierodule keeps the knights Ion shield facing forwards, allowing your flyrants to Egrub/devourer the unprotected AV12. If your opponent also has three flyrants though, he could force you to play them conservatively while the knights charge up the field uninhibited.


Also, How are you protecting your Hierodule from Centstar gating right up the field and deleting it with perfect timing? I feel this is an issue whether using 5 flyrants or 3flyrants/hierodule.

Centstar is non-existent in his meta so I doubt he would even have to consider that ^

 SHUPPET wrote:
Centstar is non-existent in his meta so I doubt he would even have to consider that ^

There were two lists containing Grav Cents in drop pods, but I didn't draw either one in the tourney. I'm not too worried about them if I had drawn them. Both of them got demolished by AD Lance lists (2 Ad Lance Players) in the early rounds. My Strategy against Centstar with Perfect timing would be to Deny Perfect timing or Gate. We discussed it a page or so back.

You can't run 3 Flyrants with AD Lance at 1850. Too Many Points. I've run a 2 Flyrant + Lictors and Rippers with Ad Lance a couple of times. That is a problematic matchup. Not Auto-lose, but definitely challenging.

tag8833 wrote:

You can't run 3 Flyrants with AD Lance at 1850. Too Many Points. I've run a 2 Flyrant + Lictors and Rippers with Ad Lance a couple of times. That is a problematic matchup. Not Auto-lose, but definitely challenging.

Yes, you can (Wilson did it). However, you're going to have to give up a lot in order to do so. This is how the list would look like:

3x Flyrants (no egrubs)

3x Mucolids

3x Knight Errants

1850

My meta is full of competitive players who play pretty teethy lists... Typical Buffmander Tau, Triptide Tau + Buffmander, White Scars, Eldar Serpent Spam + WKs, Adamantium Lance formation, Centstar, Daemons summoning, Newcrons etc.

I feel like it takes a bit more skill and luck to play Nids than some of the easier armies like Eldar and Tau. (I actually use to play those two and I find them much easier to squeeze out a win. Almost like if I make a mistake, I can make up for it, but it feels like Nids is less forgiving)


I was wondering if you had any advice/ tips for a new Nids player, especially vs these armies. I'm either playing a 4 or 5 Flyrant list. Not 100% sure yet. 5 Flyrant sounds like the most powerful Nids can do right now so may be leaning towards that.

I have to correct my math in the prior post, I messed up when calculating the armor saves...

30 Hormagaunts with Toxin Sacs vs 6 Wraiths (assuming 15 gaunts are able to attack in the first round of combat):
------------------------------------------------------------------

#1: Wraiths Charge (no whip coils, Hormagaunts swing first):

#2: Hormagaunts Charge (no whip coils, Hormagaunts swing first)


#3: Wraiths Charge (whip coils, both combatants swing at the same time):

#4: Hormagaunts Charge (whip coils, both combatants swing at the same time)


Now to compare against a blob of 30 Termagants with Toxin Sacs (and I4)...
------------------------------------------------------------------
#5: Wraiths Charge (no whip coils, Termagants swing first)

#6 Wraiths Charge (whip coils, Wraiths swing first)


If anyone finds any other errors let me know and I'll correct them...

All this talk about nids kind of got me on the band wagon, I need something else to play competitively, when I need a break from my eldar (the army I plan on running for this years gt season).

Tyranid Cad

Hive tyrant
-wings, 2 pairs of devours, bioshock grub
240
Hive tyrant
-wings, 2 pairs of devours, bioshock grub
240

Lictor 50
Lictor 50
Malenthrope 85

Mucolid 15
Mucolid 15
Mucolid 15

Spore mine cluster 15
Spore mine cluster 15
Spore mine cluster 15

Bastion w/ coms 95

Leviathan Detachment

Hive tyrant
-wings, 2 pairs of devours, bioshock grub
240
Hive tyrant
-wings, 2 pairs of devours, bioshock grub
240

Lictor 50
Lictor 50
Lictor 50

Mucolid 15
Mucolid 15
Mucolid 15

Spore mine cluster 15
Spore mine cluster 15
Spore mine cluster 15

Malwoc 140
Malwoc 140

1850 on the dot

So the army has zero obsec, but has the ability to deploy up to 12 units on the board that do not give anything up in match ups where I have to null deploy. In match ups that I deploy, the malenthrope will come in handy, as well as always being there if I ever need to run to it to get shrouded. I have the bastion and the malenthrope as backfield holders, along with the lictors and malwocs to grab and contest other objectives.

I put the malwocs in the levi detachment in-case I find myself having to test for being out of synapse. I think on paper this list is pretty solid, but in terms of real world game play its going to require a high learning curve to get right. I only played it once, and the spore mines and mucloids were monsters. I honestly think they are some of the best units in the game lol. I think tau will be the most difficult matchup, and I plan to screw around with this list as much as I can between lvo and adepticon.

Thoughts?

 syypher wrote:
My meta is full of competitive players who play pretty teethy lists... Typical Buffmander Tau, Triptide Tau + Buffmander, White Scars, Eldar Serpent Spam + WKs, Adamantium Lance formation, Centstar, Daemons summoning, Newcrons etc.

I feel like it takes a bit more skill and luck to play Nids than some of the easier armies like Eldar and Tau. (I actually use to play those two and I find them much easier to squeeze out a win. Almost like if I make a mistake, I can make up for it, but it feels like Nids is less forgiving)


I was wondering if you had any advice/ tips for a new Nids player, especially vs these armies. I'm either playing a 4 or 5 Flyrant list. Not 100% sure yet. 5 Flyrant sounds like the most powerful Nids can do right now so may be leaning towards that.

5 Flyrants is a bit of a fluke of a list. It works exceptionally well in certain mission formats (such as BAO), but also suffers from a Rock-Paper-Scissors effect in the same way that any list built out of the Tyranid codex does. For instance, a Tau list with Buffmander, 2 Skyrays, and a Skyfire burstide will be plucking 2 flyrants out of the sky per turn while taking 2-3 wounds back. There are Tau lists that are going to be unbeatable without a giant helping of luck for a good tyranid army in the BAO system. If you tailor to those lists, you will find yourself unable to compete with most other tourney builds. So your best bet is to beat them psychologically by insisting that Skyrays are not a TAC choice and that Iontides are the way to go.

Eldar are a little different. They have the tools to beat 5 flyrants, or 3 flyrants and a barbed heirodule. But usually they don't employ them preferring to stick with Wave Serpents as the source of most of their firepower. Against most Eldar Tourney lists you can compete with either 5 Flyrants or 3 Flyrants and a Barbed Heirodule. Its not an autowin, but neither is it auto lose. Personally, I think a Barbed Heirodule adds a lot vs Eldar, and if they are your primary opponent I would look in that direction.

Eldar and Tau are clearly the top Codexes with undercosted units and upgrades that put them solidly on top of the heap when it comes to tournament builds. Their points efficiency allows for a much more forgiving, less luck dependent victory. With Tyranids you are always gambling, and our top builds are just like AD Lance. Unbalanced and able to beat the tar out of many opponents, but face certain matchups where we need major luck to pull it off.

I wouldn't build toward 5 flyrants only unless I was planning on playing nothing but BAO missions. You probably also want a Barbed Heirodule, Lictors, a couple tyrannocytes, some Carnifexes, a bunch of Gargoyles, some Mawlocs and maybe a Dimacharon and/or TFex to help you tailor to missions. For Instance, OrdoSean's Lictor Shame list.