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Part II of the Eldar tactica updated on p. 319.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Gud stuff on both lists. I like 4 Flyrants but I have terrible luck with Mawlocs :p

Has anyone else stopped taking Malanthropes or Venomthropes in their lists? I feel like he doesn't do a lot in my meta. Usual opponents are Tau (yeah), Necrons (starting to put Nebuloscopes on his Tomb Blades) Space Marines (Relic Whirlwind Scorpius w/ Battle of Keylek) and Chaos (Helldrakes).

I feel like those 45/85 points could be spent better..

He is still useful because you can leave him at home to take a "home" objective. Also, if your flyrants fly off the table, they can come back in within range of the malanthrope (venomthrope) for some protection, especially against armies strong with skyfire units.

If you know what your meta normally runs, then you can leave him (the venom/malan) off your list. However, in a tournament where you don't know what you will be facing, I feel that the venom/malan is a necessity to protect your army against whatever they may encounter.

 the shrouded lord wrote:
Tyrannofex with rapture cannon... I just obtained one for the cost of $0.00

Hey, where can I get it for that price?

 foto69man wrote:
Going to the Alamo GT in a few weeks. Going to run nidzilla and just have fun, possibly annoy people with a win or two lol. Here is my list :

Dakka Flyrant
Dakka Flyrant
Rippers with deep strike
Rippers
Tyrannofex in a pod with flamer
Dakka Fex in a pod

Dakka Flyrant
Dakka Flyrant
Dakka Flyrant
3 Mucolids

I know this is not a good maelstrom army, but eh I'll have fun with it. Anyone here going?

Good luck! It might not be good in Maelstrom, but it'll give a lot of armies nightmares.

 jy2 wrote:


[

 the shrouded lord wrote:
Tyrannofex with rapture cannon... I just obtained one for the cost of $0.00

Hey, where can I get it for that price?

You just have to murder someone.
Note: may result in jail, suggest reading up on hiding evidence before hand.

I just got a agme in against a quad flyrant list with the new Eldar.


Guardian Host
farseer singing spear
2 warlocks, singing spear
20 guardians 2x bright lance, warlock
2x 20 guardians 2x eml, warlock
3 vypers eml
3 warwalkers 2x scatterlaser
vauls wrath support battery 3x d-weapons, warlock

Aspect Shrine
3x 3 dark reapers, exarch eml

So not an OP list at all although there are few very strong units. The quad flyrant Nid player had no mawlocs, just one malanthrope. His list was good - not sure it was a tournament list but neither is mine. I squeaked a win despite his psychic powers, SotW (which hurt) and his early and persistent targeting of all units with emls. He should have worried about my Scat walkers too in hindsight. He also had bad luck and twice failed grounding tests and took wounds from perils - hello d-weapons.

-Observations -

-Wraths Support batteries are stupid good against any and all ground targets.
-Scatterlaser Walkers are bloody dangerous and should be dealt with - never ignored. They will wound FMCs too.
-Aspect shrine is silly. The rules mean you always get a lot of hits against targets you want to hurt. Is the buff of +1 BS and re rolls on morale even legit?
-Attacking LD is smart. I lost a squad as a result. SotW plus psychic powers hurts. A lot.
-I near lost the game because of no ObSec. Only the fact that I could entirely control the mid table enabled me to pull out a very narrow win. Another turn and I might have lost.

 felixcat wrote:
I just got a agme in against a quad flyrant list with the new Eldar.


Guardian Host
farseer singing spear
2 warlocks, singing spear
20 guardians 2x bright lance, warlock
2x 20 guardians 2x eml, warlock
3 vypers eml
3 warwalkers 2x scatterlaser
vauls wrath support battery 3x d-weapons, warlock

Aspect Shrine
3x 3 dark reapers, exarch eml

So not an OP list at all although there are few very strong units. The quad flyrant Nid player had no mawlocs, just one malanthrope. His list was good - not sure it was a tournament list but neither is mine. I squeaked a win despite his psychic powers, SotW (which hurt) and his early and persistent targeting of all units with emls. He should have worried about my Scat walkers too in hindsight. He also had bad luck and twice failed grounding tests and took wounds from perils - hello d-weapons.

-Observations -

-Wraths Support batteries are stupid good against any and all ground targets.
-Scatterlaser Walkers are bloody dangerous and should be dealt with - never ignored. They will wound FMCs too.
-Aspect shrine is silly. The rules mean you always get a lot of hits against targets you want to hurt. Is the buff of +1 BS and re rolls on morale even legit?
-Attacking LD is smart. I lost a squad as a result. SotW plus psychic powers hurts. A lot.
-I near lost the game because of no ObSec. Only the fact that I could entirely control the mid table enabled me to pull out a very narrow win. Another turn and I might have lost.

Yeah, wrong target priority definitely didn't help his (your opponent's) cause. Tyranids IMO can compete. However, you really can't afford to make mistakes like that against Eldar.

Indeed.

Yeah, wrong target priority definitely didn't help his (your opponent's) cause. Tyranids IMO can compete. However, you really can't afford to make mistakes like that against Eldar. Yeah, wrong target priority definitely didn't help his (your opponent's) cause. Tyranids IMO can compete. However, you really can't afford to make mistakes like that against Eldar.

The list has no reserve manipulation and restricted deployment options - nothing really to reserve or outflank other than walkers and is rather easy to predict - by this I mean that a savvy opponent can target prioritize easily. My opponent did make a few mistakes. He generally plays tighter but I think everyone is still learning what Eldar can do. He wanted to take out the Repers and Vypers first because I talked them up a lot before the game as his major threats to his flyers. And they are powerful in their own right. But d-weapons, scatter walkers and even warlocks cannot be dismissed (do not let singing spears get close). The thing is the number of threatening targets an Eldar list can field with guardian hoist and aspect shrines makes it difficult at times.

Guys, what are your views on Tyrannocyctes from a usefullness/monetary cost point of view. I have a GW voucher with which I could get two. Is two enough? Are they worth it overall? Are their any proxy options that might be cheaper?

 felixcat wrote:
I just got a agme in against a quad flyrant list with the new Eldar.


Guardian Host
farseer singing spear
2 warlocks, singing spear
20 guardians 2x bright lance, warlock
2x 20 guardians 2x eml, warlock
3 vypers eml
3 warwalkers 2x scatterlaser
vauls wrath support battery 3x d-weapons, warlock

Aspect Shrine
3x 3 dark reapers, exarch eml

So not an OP list at all although there are few very strong units. The quad flyrant Nid player had no mawlocs, just one malanthrope. His list was good - not sure it was a tournament list but neither is mine. I squeaked a win despite his psychic powers, SotW (which hurt) and his early and persistent targeting of all units with emls. He should have worried about my Scat walkers too in hindsight. He also had bad luck and twice failed grounding tests and took wounds from perils - hello d-weapons.

-Observations -

-Wraths Support batteries are stupid good against any and all ground targets.
-Scatterlaser Walkers are bloody dangerous and should be dealt with - never ignored. They will wound FMCs too.
-Aspect shrine is silly. The rules mean you always get a lot of hits against targets you want to hurt. Is the buff of +1 BS and re rolls on morale even legit?
-Attacking LD is smart. I lost a squad as a result. SotW plus psychic powers hurts. A lot.
-I near lost the game because of no ObSec. Only the fact that I could entirely control the mid table enabled me to pull out a very narrow win. Another turn and I might have lost.

Seeing this...

I think perhaps a stronger observation could be made for eldar here.

Eldar Missile Launchers got a huge buff in the last book. One of many 'sleeper' buffs. Free Skyfire is huge in a Flyer meta.

And from last count you had 3 BS6, 2 shot skyfire missiles (Dark Reapers), 2 footblob skyfire shots (well protected in a Guardian blob each) and 3 fast moving EML shots from Vypers.

Now, if you were EML heavy before this codex? Fair enough. You got buffs and can giggle like a maniacal supervillain at how well you made out with this book. If not it seems like it was very much stacked against the 'nids from the start.

I actually was tempted to take my Walkers with Scattr/EML as well, lol. Yes they are really good now - and Dark Reapers get a free fast shot exarch as well. And it is actually four shots from my guardians - two in each squad. So a total of ten skyfire shots plus the re roll six dark reaper shots at BS2 that ignore jink. But I would not call the list stacked against Nids. I could have used three crimson hunters and three hemlocks after all. That would have been stacked.

 Ratius wrote:
Guys, what are your views on Tyrannocyctes from a usefullness/monetary cost point of view. I have a GW voucher with which I could get two. Is two enough? Are they worth it overall? Are their any proxy options that might be cheaper?

I like pods, both the rules and models. I have 3 home built ones, and have been eyeing the official models too - though I think 3 should be enough, really. My costs for building mine were maybe $10, I used Pomegranate drink bottles (delicious) and hot glue/Tyranid bits. I am content with them, but they are not as cool as the official models.

I keep thinking of new and fun ways to drop in units - I think that the pods really add versatility to the army. So many slow units can have their drawbacks mitigated. And... It's fluffy!

SBG wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
Guys, what are your views on Tyrannocyctes from a usefullness/monetary cost point of view. I have a GW voucher with which I could get two. Is two enough? Are they worth it overall? Are their any proxy options that might be cheaper?

I like pods, both the rules and models. I have 3 home built ones, and have been eyeing the official models too - though I think 3 should be enough, really. My costs for building mine were maybe $10, I used Pomegranate drink bottles (delicious) and hot glue/Tyranid bits. I am content with them, but they are not as cool as the official models.

I keep thinking of new and fun ways to drop in units - I think that the pods really add versatility to the army. So many slow units can have their drawbacks mitigated. And... It's fluffy!

I agree. 3 seem to be about the most you would want in a game. I actually have 4 with 2 official kits (one unbuilt), and 2 homebuilt conversion out of plastic pinapples that people seem to think look cooler than the actual kit.

Before Leviathan detachment came out they were a godsend, but now they dont bolster our forces in any way effectively. I think I've used mine twice.

Part II of Eldar Tactica updated on p. 319.

I just read it JY2. Nice. I'm about to test my second game against Nids tonight. I'll be playing this:

PRIMARY CAD: 1406
Autarch: skyrunner, fusion, lance, banshee mask
Farseer, skyrunner, singing spear

2x 3 Jetbikes: shuriken cannons
4x 3 Jetbikes: scatterlasers

2x Vyper: dual shuriken cannon

2x Hemlock
3 Waerwalkers: 2 w/ dual scatterlasers. 1 w/ scatterlaser/eml

CRIMSON DEATH: 440
1x Crimson Hunter Exarch: starcannons
2x Crimson Hunter:

Playing a guardian host footdar list left me feeling that I needed a CAD for ObSec. The list has dakka a plenty, reserve manipulation, six warp charge, lots of potential AP2 shots. It has obvious answers for quad flyrants ... my five vs their four.

I predict that my Eldar should be very good against Nids but you never know. Maelstorm missions can be a bi**h when you draw badly. I do feel more comfortable running this against Nids than footdar though ( although I think we will see footdar competing at tournaments and doing well).

Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies: The main reasons for combining Eldar with Dark Eldar are twofold. First is as a delivery system for Wraithguards with D-scythes. You will see the Webway Portal as well as D-scythe Wraithguards in this type of list. The second is for Leadership-bomb shenanigans, which I will not go into in this tactica. Basically, this type of list is possibly more of a Dark Eldar build with Eldar allies than it is an Eldar build with Dark Eldar allies. It relies on Leadership-reducing, stackable powers and then various psychic powers (like Psychic Shriek and various Dark Eldar powers) to either kill off your opponents or to make them break.

CAD:
Farseer Skyrunner

5 Wraithguards - D-scythes
5 Wraithguards - D-scythes

3 Bikes - 2 Scatters
3 Bikes - 2 Scatters
3 Bikes - 2 Scatters
3 Bikes - 2 Scatters
3 Bikes - 1 Scatter

Wraithknight

Crimson Death:
Crimson Hunter Exarch
Crimson Hunter
Crimson Hunter

Dark Eldar Allies:
Succubus - Webway Portal, Glaive

5 Warriors

Venom (Note - this is a Fast Attack choice)

This list needs a raider not a venom, you can't fit those 5 wraithguard in a venom....

 Red Corsair wrote:

Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies: The main reasons for combining Eldar with Dark Eldar are twofold. First is as a delivery system for Wraithguards with D-scythes. You will see the Webway Portal as well as D-scythe Wraithguards in this type of list. The second is for Leadership-bomb shenanigans, which I will not go into in this tactica. Basically, this type of list is possibly more of a Dark Eldar build with Eldar allies than it is an Eldar build with Dark Eldar allies. It relies on Leadership-reducing, stackable powers and then various psychic powers (like Psychic Shriek and various Dark Eldar powers) to either kill off your opponents or to make them break.

CAD:
Farseer Skyrunner

5 Wraithguards - D-scythes
5 Wraithguards - D-scythes

3 Bikes - 2 Scatters
3 Bikes - 2 Scatters
3 Bikes - 2 Scatters
3 Bikes - 2 Scatters
3 Bikes - 1 Scatter

Wraithknight

Crimson Death:
Crimson Hunter Exarch
Crimson Hunter
Crimson Hunter

Dark Eldar Allies:
Succubus - Webway Portal, Glaive

5 Warriors

Venom (Note - this is a Fast Attack choice)

This list needs a raider not a venom, you can't fit those 5 wraithguard in a venom....

I don't think the Guard go in there. I think the Warriors do, while a Succubus portals one DScythe unit in.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies: The main reasons for combining Eldar with Dark Eldar are twofold. First is as a delivery system for Wraithguards with D-scythes. You will see the Webway Portal as well as D-scythe Wraithguards in this type of list. The second is for Leadership-bomb shenanigans, which I will not go into in this tactica. Basically, this type of list is possibly more of a Dark Eldar build with Eldar allies than it is an Eldar build with Dark Eldar allies. It relies on Leadership-reducing, stackable powers and then various psychic powers (like Psychic Shriek and various Dark Eldar powers) to either kill off your opponents or to make them break.

Spoiler:

CAD:
Farseer Skyrunner

5 Wraithguards - D-scythes
5 Wraithguards - D-scythes

3 Bikes - 2 Scatters
3 Bikes - 2 Scatters
3 Bikes - 2 Scatters
3 Bikes - 2 Scatters
3 Bikes - 1 Scatter

Wraithknight

Crimson Death:
Crimson Hunter Exarch
Crimson Hunter
Crimson Hunter

Dark Eldar Allies:
Succubus - Webway Portal, Glaive

5 Warriors

Venom (Note - this is a Fast Attack choice)

This list needs a raider not a venom, you can't fit those 5 wraithguard in a venom....

Ok. Done!

 jifel wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Eldar with Dark Eldar Allies: The main reasons for combining Eldar with Dark Eldar are twofold. First is as a delivery system for Wraithguards with D-scythes. You will see the Webway Portal as well as D-scythe Wraithguards in this type of list. The second is for Leadership-bomb shenanigans, which I will not go into in this tactica. Basically, this type of list is possibly more of a Dark Eldar build with Eldar allies than it is an Eldar build with Dark Eldar allies. It relies on Leadership-reducing, stackable powers and then various psychic powers (like Psychic Shriek and various Dark Eldar powers) to either kill off your opponents or to make them break.

Spoiler:

CAD:
Farseer Skyrunner

5 Wraithguards - D-scythes
5 Wraithguards - D-scythes

3 Bikes - 2 Scatters
3 Bikes - 2 Scatters
3 Bikes - 2 Scatters
3 Bikes - 2 Scatters
3 Bikes - 1 Scatter

Wraithknight

Crimson Death:
Crimson Hunter Exarch
Crimson Hunter
Crimson Hunter

Dark Eldar Allies:
Succubus - Webway Portal, Glaive

5 Warriors

Venom (Note - this is a Fast Attack choice)

This list needs a raider not a venom, you can't fit those 5 wraithguard in a venom....

I don't think the Guard go in there. I think the Warriors do, while a Succubus portals one DScythe unit in.

Red Corsair is correct. The venom (now raider) is actually a Fast Attack and as such, it has the flexibility of allowing either the WG or warriors to start off on it.

 felixcat wrote:
I just read it JY2. Nice. I'm about to test my second game against Nids tonight. I'll be playing this:

PRIMARY CAD: 1406
Autarch: skyrunner, fusion, lance, banshee mask
Farseer, skyrunner, singing spear

2x 3 Jetbikes: shuriken cannons
4x 3 Jetbikes: scatterlasers

2x Vyper: dual shuriken cannon

2x Hemlock
3 Waerwalkers: 2 w/ dual scatterlasers. 1 w/ scatterlaser/eml

CRIMSON DEATH: 440
1x Crimson Hunter Exarch: starcannons
2x Crimson Hunter:

Playing a guardian host footdar list left me feeling that I needed a CAD for ObSec. The list has dakka a plenty, reserve manipulation, six warp charge, lots of potential AP2 shots. It has obvious answers for quad flyrants ... my five vs their four.

I predict that my Eldar should be very good against Nids but you never know. Maelstorm missions can be a bi**h when you draw badly. I do feel more comfortable running this against Nids than footdar though ( although I think we will see footdar competing at tournaments and doing well).

So why the shuri-cannons on 2 of the jetbikes? Is it because you want to make it WYSIWYG?

I think that you will find this type of list very effective. There are just so many ways to build a good Eldar list, but running ObSec windrider jetbikes is probably some of the best. This list should do pretty well, even against flyrant-spam. Good luck.

I have those shuri-cannons on the off chance I need the extra AP2 shots. I'm not thrilled with the range but meh ... it is insurance.

As for the game ... the hemlocks, I feel they underperformed for damage but they are great for psychic powers if you don't get denied. Casting invisibility/shrouding is a great boon. Against Nids I don't know that they are ideal desopite the d-weapons that can target FMCs. You do need to get the range on the FMCs.I think hemlocks need better targets for invisibility - maybe one skyraunner farseer and banshee mask autarch in a decent squad of reavers. I did not have that type of unit. If I redo the list those hemlocks and warwalkers will be this ...

2 Vypers: dual shuriken cannon
3 Vypers: eml

2x 3 Warwalkers: dual scatterlasers

I confess I missed them from my first game. Both the scat walkers and vypers are top performers. Especially as you can outflank those walkers and be in range of anything.

As for the game. I played against a modified lictor list with mawlocs this time. Still four Flyrants and the usual troops. I ended up losing a close match ... he got first blood - linebreaker - killed two of my hunters - destroyed my bikes with devs and shrieks. It was actually fairly close until turn five. I did manage to kill two flyrants and almost downed a third (it had one wound left on turn six).

ObSec troops are nice but those troops are soo fragile. LD is a big issue. Also the cards I drew for maelstorm just did not fall into place so even though I led early on points he caught up fast. He also used fighter ace on his warlord - just a b***h.

My impressions are that a good Nid player can compwete even against a list stacked with anti-flyer. His mawlocs took out two bike squads. His lictors flesh hooks were surprisingly effective and lictors can reposition so well.

Now, bear in mind I'm a good casual player - not a hardened tournament one. Even when I attend tournaments I play lists I enjoy - not necessarily top tier. That said I do know how to capitalize on mistakes and those Nids had game against my list.

Part II of Eldar Tactica updated on p. 319.

 felixcat wrote:
lictors can reposition so well.

Er... with their 6" move?

I use Deathleaper sometimes in my beer&pretzels list. And I really miss his old 'Where did it go?' rule, would be gold to have a blinking Deathleaper claiming Maelstrom objectives all night. As it currently stands, once you commit any kind of Lictor to the table, they aren't really going places.

Not their 6" move. Their fleet and hit and run (2D6 is a lot of movement). Their no scatter arrival. Their move through cover.

Before Leviathan detachment came out they were a godsend, but now they dont bolster our forces in any way effectively. I think I've used mine twice.

Can you expand on the Lech? Im not familiar with Leviathan formation?
How does it handicap Tcytes or negate their usefullness?

Leviathan gives you access to three Flyrants. Tyrannocytes are good,but Flyrants are one of the top ten units in the game at the minute and being able to take more is always a bonus, particularly when most tournaments disallow double CAD.

They're so good people just take the Hive Fleet Detachment for three of them (with three Mucolids for troops) and spend the rest on the other faction.

Pretty much that. If we were still stuck taking the two CAD tyrants and an allied tyrant, then drop podded things like fexes and Dima's bore some consideration if you werent going the Skyblight route. Whats better than drop podding a fex or a dima? Another Tyrant.

But for newbs like me that dont want to Flyrant spam, a few Tyrannocytes worth it then in terms of adding mobility, backfield pressure and army dynamics?
Monetary cost is the main issue here. Is it a case of "go many or go home"?

 Ratius wrote:
But for newbs like me that dont want to Flyrant spam, a few Tyrannocytes worth it then in terms of adding mobility, backfield pressure and army dynamics?
Monetary cost is the main issue here. Is it a case of "go many or go home"?

Tyrannocyte are a great addition to the army. They allow you to place any unit you like where you want it. The main issue with a lot of our units where they got shot to death before the could get to where you want them. Now that's not a issue. I personally run 2 or 3 all the time now. While Flyrants are very good. They are boing to play with just them. I run no more then 3. I then fill up my army with other tools that the Flyrants can't take care of.

Over all Tyrannocyte are golden when used with a army that gives your opponent a lot of threats to deal with.

A ADL with com's help a lot with reserves to make them all come in together.

shadowfinder wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
But for newbs like me that dont want to Flyrant spam, a few Tyrannocytes worth it then in terms of adding mobility, backfield pressure and army dynamics?
Monetary cost is the main issue here. Is it a case of "go many or go home"?

Tyrannocyte are a great addition to the army. They allow you to place any unit you like where you want it. The main issue with a lot of our units where they got shot to death before the could get to where you want them. Now that's not a issue. I personally run 2 or 3 all the time now. While Flyrants are very good. They are boing to play with just them. I run no more then 3. I then fill up my army with other tools that the Flyrants can't take care of.

Over all Tyrannocyte are golden when used with a army that gives your opponent a lot of threats to deal with.

A ADL with com's help a lot with reserves to make them all come in together.

I'm not entirely sure where all of this hate on Tyrannocytes is coming from... I have found them to be solid gold. The ability to precisely position an MC is very valuable, and also allows you to place a very durable unit on an objective in Maelstrom to claim it for your own, or to deliver our close range firepower more effectively. I also cap myself at 3 Flyrants, but I believe that is the best number to take in order to have an ideal amount of ground support. After all, Maelstrom missions are becoming more and more commonly used, and so I need some boots on the ground as well as my beloved air support.

Ok thanks. Outside of Flyrant spam the consensus seems to be they are decent. Now to check the bank balance.....

I have been running 4 or 5 tyranocytes with dakkafexes and 20 devilgants in them with 2 Flyrants. It has been a lot of fun and hits really hard on that turn they all come in. I also don't have too difficult of a time with malestorm because my ground force is pretty durable.

Tyrannocytes are good, but not great in the way that Flyrants, Malanthropes, and Barbed Heirodules are. The reasons are simple:
1) ITC aka the largest group of tournaments nerfed Tyrannocyte shooting lowering their effectiveness as a supporting fire unit at many events.
2) They are a little pricey for what they bring.
3) There is a limit to 1 MC. So you can't bring a Tyrant with Tyrant Guard, or a pair of Dakkafexes.
4) Tyranids don't have a good way to modify reserve rolls (The Swarmlord modifies them, but is so overcosted that calling it "good" is a stretch).
5) TMC's and gribbles die pretty easily because of their lack of Toughness and armor saves compared to similar units in other armies. Tyranids make up for this via the shrouded bubble offered by the Venomthrope or Malanthrope, and it doesn't help out in this case resulting in many Tyrannocyte packages being killed on the turn they arrive.
6) Hive commander is a cheaper way to get gants or warriors into the backfield.
7) The model is terrible. Too big. Too Unwieldy. Too stupid looking.

It is a good unit. I use them in games, and they are quite good. I've taken them to tournaments, and won with them. If you don't like to run pure flyrant spam or a Barbed Heirodule, having a Tyrannocyte or two in your list can be a big help.

I don't have any problem with the model. It is a big balloon and that makes sense.